New estates effect on looting and TOs

[Bedwyr]

On the other hand, a realm with a 20 noble/region ratio will have no advantage whatsoever from this, except at most a doubling of their revenues as they have full estate coverage. I think this is likely to result in large realms absorbing small ones.

I doubt there will be any significant change.  There are a lot of other factors geared toward smaller realms (considerably more than I would prefer, in point of fact), and if you get into a war with a realm twice your size, with no mitigating factors, you should lose.

[Bedwyr]

In the old system, in some realms, it was hard for knights to find oaths. Now that there isn't any incentive to have any knights (50% estate + 50% wildlands = 75% of the region's income, more for the lord than if he gives 50% to another even if the region's total gold output would be greater), won't this become a problem?

Leaving aside soft incentives...Your Ruler, Banker, and General should be bitching you out for this and siccing the Judge on you.  And if they aren't...Then that realm next door where the Ruler does will beat the !@#$ out of you as your realm income is lower and you don't have as many knights as you should.

[vonGenf]

I doubt there will be any significant change.  There are a lot of other factors geared toward smaller realms (considerably more than I would prefer, in point of fact), and if you get into a war with a realm twice your size, with no mitigating factors, you should lose.

I agree that this will not make realms suddenly "more powerful". I think, however, that this makes both looting and TOing easier.

One thing this may change, for example, is that I can see how it could become a feasible strategy to separate an army in small groups that all go loot and TO your enemies land. Sure you'll get a big chunk destroyed if your enemy keeps his army in one blob and pick your small groups one at a time, but if you move quick you can avoid most of the damage and you can reduce the enemy's production by 50%. Now, before the new estates, this was not so great a strategy because unless you really destroy a region to the ground, its stats would come back to their equilibrium values within 10 days. Now, if you need civil work in every single region to get back your production, this is suddenly a much better outcome.

[Tom]

One thing this may change, for example, is that I can see how it could become a feasible strategy to separate an army in small groups that all go loot and TO your enemies land. Sure you'll get a big chunk destroyed if your enemy keeps his army in one blob and pick your small groups one at a time, but if you move quick you can avoid most of the damage and you can reduce the enemy's production by 50%. Now, before the new estates, this was not so great a strategy because unless you really destroy a region to the ground, its stats would come back to their equilibrium values within 10 days. Now, if you need civil work in every single region to get back your production, this is suddenly a much better outcome.

Then this is a good change.

[vonGenf]

Then this is a good change.

Certainly! And I'm certain it's not the only one.

[Chenier]

I agree that this will not make realms suddenly "more powerful". I think, however, that this makes both looting and TOing easier.

One thing this may change, for example, is that I can see how it could become a feasible strategy to separate an army in small groups that all go loot and TO your enemies land. Sure you'll get a big chunk destroyed if your enemy keeps his army in one blob and pick your small groups one at a time, but if you move quick you can avoid most of the damage and you can reduce the enemy's production by 50%. Now, before the new estates, this was not so great a strategy because unless you really destroy a region to the ground, its stats would come back to their equilibrium values within 10 days. Now, if you need civil work in every single region to get back your production, this is suddenly a much better outcome.

TOs had become way too hard anyways, so I don't see the problem.

As for looting, one could do that before. Maybe you played in continents where everyone has 450% estate coverage everywhere but I don't.

[Thunthorn]

Even if estates won't affect control of a region anymore I assume that other factors doing so will still be in effect? Proximity to the capital will still be a large factor in deciding how hard it is to maintain control of a region I hope?

[Telrunya]

Yes. Only Estate effects are removed.

[vonGenf]

It will also mean that additional knights in peripheral regions will no longer allow you to run the same tax rate as in core regions. The only lever left will be the tax rate.

[vonGenf]

It will also mean that additional knights in peripheral regions will no longer allow you to run the same tax rate as in core regions. The only lever left will be the tax rate.

[Chenier]

It will also mean that additional knights in peripheral regions will no longer allow you to run the same tax rate as in core regions. The only lever left will be the tax rate.

Why you would do so is beyond me, though. I'd rather have the taxes of the core regions hiked than of the border regions...

[De-Legro]

Why you would do so is beyond me, though. I'd rather have the taxes of the core regions hiked than of the border regions...

Because the Lords of the peripheral regions wanted more gold? I mean sure its nice to have the core regions run higher taxes, but not everyone in the realm gets a direct benefit. Course if you realm is all about Maximising Return in some sort of rational here are the ideal numbers sort of way you would go for maximum return, fortunately BM is about more then just running spreadsheets for the maximum return for the realm.

[Chenier]

Because the Lords of the peripheral regions wanted more gold? I mean sure its nice to have the core regions run higher taxes, but not everyone in the realm gets a direct benefit. Course if you realm is all about Maximising Return in some sort of rational here are the ideal numbers sort of way you would go for maximum return, fortunately BM is about more then just running spreadsheets for the maximum return for the realm.

But as a knight, there's no incentive to go to a peripheral region as opposed to a core region. You are almost guaranteed a better income in the core area, and that's where incomes can be maximized the the realm average. That is, unless the core lords are greedy and don't want you...

[De-Legro]

But as a knight, there's no incentive to go to a peripheral region as opposed to a core region. You are almost guaranteed a better income in the core area, and that's where incomes can be maximized the the realm average. That is, unless the core lords are greedy and don't want you...

You mean besides trying to establish a good reputation for yourself and come to the attention of the ruler, or gaining the support of a grateful Lord who can assist with your own ambitions? Gold is nice but there can be other incentives that work just as well, in a realm that is well managed and actually has some semblance of RP mind you.

[Chenier]

You mean besides trying to establish a good reputation for yourself and come to the attention of the ruler, or gaining the support of a grateful Lord who can assist with your own ambitions? Gold is nice but there can be other incentives that work just as well, in a realm that is well managed and actually has some semblance of RP mind you.

Or, you know, you could do the same from the core regions. Except with less odds of having to travel for days to reach it to do civil work when it needs it, and therefore more availability to do *real* noticeable stuff like becoming a marshal of the like.

I've never seen *anyone* go "Wow, look at how good this guy's estates are for this borderland, we should totally promote him!". As for sucking up to a lord... Why would you bother sucking up to the lord of Fringeville? The powerful people are mostly in the core anyways in most cases...

Point is, you can have everything a fringe region can offer in a core region, and then some. The only thing I ever gained from a borderland was an excuse to secede.  8)