Assigning knights to an army

[Tom]

Following the idea, a ruler could be appointed as lord of a region, making it an Imperial Region (yes, bringing the concept back) whose taxes go fully into Realm Share, not incurring in the penalties as Imperial Regions ruled by non-king lords.

Rejected. Getting rid of imperial regions was an explicit design goal. You need to re-read the wiki page, which explains that one purpose of the new system is to create one simple system that fits all, without all the exceptions and special cases that have caused us so much headaches in the past.

I don't see the need to have the king kicked out of his estates when he loses the crown, as long as he loses his tax immunity

Negative. He will lose his estate and/or region unless he's also the duke. Again, read the wiki page. The purpose of the system is to not have all the special cases. And I won't budge from that.

[vonGenf]

Following the idea, a ruler could be appointed as lord of a region, making it an Imperial Region (yes, bringing the concept back) whose taxes go fully into Realm Share, not incurring in the penalties as Imperial Regions ruled by non-king lords.

If the ruler is also a Duke, he can be Lord of any region he wants and make it a one-region Duchy. That would be the equivalent of the old imperial regions.

If the ruler is not also Duke, he is a weak ruler, and should suffer accordingly.

[D`Este]

Rejected. Getting rid of imperial regions was an explicit design goal. You need to re-read the wiki page, which explains that one purpose of the new system is to create one simple system that fits all, without all the exceptions and special cases that have caused us so much headaches in the past.

Is it already implented that there won't be any new imperial regions? As Luria Nova has just taken Smokey Hills and that region is imperial.

[Tom]

Is it already implented that there won't be any new imperial regions? As Luria Nova has just taken Smokey Hills and that region is imperial.

Then that's a bug. In fact, it'll happen a few times, until all the code has been updated.

[Chenier]

Negative. He will lose his estate and/or region unless he's also the duke. Again, read the wiki page. The purpose of the system is to not have all the special cases. And I won't budge from that.

I wasn't commenting the system as it is, but his suggestion.

I just think that making the ruler tax-immune in order to be able to get an estate anywhere is that complicated. After all, it would be creating an exception to replace an existing one, the restriction that he can't just pick up an estate anywhere, forcing him to be a hobo.

And really, why shouldn't he have an estate in someone's region, if he can have a region in someone's duchy? How is being vassal to a duke any worse? To be consistent, if we want him to be clearly above everyone without tax immunity, we'd need to force him to chose between being a hobo and a duke.

[fodder]

a ruler is allowed to be a lord under a different duke?

[Chenier]

a ruler is allowed to be a lord under a different duke?

Not sure how the new system handles it, but in the old one a ruler couldn't be a knight, but he could be a lord in a duchy. I don't remember hearing anything about this having changed.

[Indirik]

a ruler is allowed to be a lord under a different duke?

No. A ruler can only be a ruler of a region if he is also the duke of the duchy the region is in.

Think of it this way: No one can *ever* be both above and below someone in the hierarchy. So if the ruler wants a personal estate, then the entire chain from the ruler on down to the knight level must be occupied by that ruler. If any position in between is held by someone else, then the chain is broken and it can't be done. Like this:

Good:
Ruler: Kepler
Duke: Kepler
Lord: Kepler
Estate: Kepler

This is good, because the ruler Kepler is never placed both above and below someone on the hierarchy. He's his onw boss, all the way up and down the hierarchy.


Bad:
Ruler: Kepler
Duke: Kepler
Lord: Frank
Estate: Kepler

This is bad. In order to be a Lord, Frank must have sworn an oath of fealty to Kepler. But then order to hold an estate in Frank's region, Kepler would then have to turn around and swear an oath of fealty to Frank. And that would just be silly. Kepler is Frank's Duke and Ruler. He would *never* swear an oath to place himself in Frank's service.

[Indirik]

Not sure how the new system handles it, but in the old one a ruler couldn't be a knight, but he could be a lord in a duchy. I don't remember hearing anything about this having changed.

It has indeed changed. A ruler can now only be a lord if he is also the duke. See my last post about the hierarchy chain.

[fodder]

that's what i thought.

[Chenier]

It has indeed changed. A ruler can now only be a lord if he is also the duke. See my last post about the hierarchy chain.

Interesting.

How do dukeships free themselves, though? The ruler can't appoint himself to a C/T/S to then make it a duchy, needs to be done first. Can you create a duchy out of a lordless C/T/S?

[Indirik]

How do dukeships free themselves, though?

The usual ways: Duke steps down, gets killed, leaves the island, gets banned, goes inactive, etc. I am not sure if Tom intends to code position loss based on being elected, wounded, imprisoned, etc.

The ruler can't appoint himself to a C/T/S to then make it a duchy, needs to be done first.

Correct.

Besides, the ruler no longer appoints lords. The ruler appoints dukes. Dukes appoint lords.

Can you create a duchy out of a lordless C/T/S?

No.

[Chenier]

It's then quite difficult for the ruler to give himself some land...

Therefore, most rulers will be... landless hobos?

[Indirik]

Therefore, most rulers will be... landless hobos?

But they won't be poor. The enforced taxation down the hierarchy will guarantee them some income.

[fodder]

interestingly, ruler of riombara is a knight of mio dupaki, with an estate to boot. obviously this is carried forth from before the change. question is... is there no backup/cleanup script for this? something similar quite possibly can occur after every election (will see.. election in a few days)

just imagine a lord running for election and wins. theoretically should auto lose his region. but does he in practice?