Accusations of cheating

[Indirik]

Sorry, two more points need to be made.

And yet what did you have with Toupellon but a lack of roleplay, a lack of IC explanation or depth or anything.

What you had in Toupellon was a lot of stuff that your character wasn't involved in. Just because you aren't involved in it doesn't mean it's not being done IC. Because, believe it or not, there are things going on on FEI that your character knows nothing about.

I mean the other realms didn't even address the issue with War.

Because war is the only possible response? Maybe the other realms involved *wanted* Cathay and OW broken up. Maybe the majority of people in OW *wanted* it torn apart, because they were all mostly disgusted with the craphole it had become.

And maybe Cathay *wanted* to attack Toupellon, but realized that if they had attacked, then they would have been crushed like a flea. And maybe they *couldn't* attack because they didn't even have a capital and couldn't recruit any troops to attack with.

And maybe, just maybe, what this all distills down into is that you didn't get your personal engraved invitation to the party, and therefore it has to be all OOC planning and powergaming.

[Geronus]

Lets look at a counter claim shall we?

"Powergaming (or power gaming) is a style of interacting with games or game-like systems with the aim of maximising progress towards a specific goal, to the exclusion of other considerations such as (in videogames, boardgames, and roleplaying games) storytelling, atmosphere and camaraderie."

If there's no roleplay and little in the way of IC storytelling then surely this mass succession in F.E.I. to create a superstate is "maximising progress towards a specific goal, to the exclusion of other considerations".

And yet what did you have with Toupellon but a lack of roleplay, a lack of IC explanation or depth or anything. I mean the other realms didn't even address the issue with War. Ignoring the >massive< oathbreaking and geo-political powershifts, which if it was an SMA continent would be nigh inexcusable from an IC perspective,  and yet loads of realms were simply cowed into signing Peace with the new realm out of, I expect, a mix of shock and a fear of standing up for themselves for fear of being entirely destroyed. Though is seems Cathay is to be the exception.

This right here is the problem though - you make sweeping claims and fail to provide any evidence. How do you know this wasn't extensively RPed and planned IC through private channels of communication? Not all RP must be in the public realm. The messages that have been shared with us amount to an accusation of abuse - that the players involved in the creation of Toupellon are guilty of OOC collusion and power gaming. Clanning, basically.

This accusation is defamatory, and without evidence it is also libelous. I have yet to see any evidence, either in the original messages or provided in your post. All I see is simple conjecture. On the other hand anecdotal evidence has been given that one result of this affair has been real damage to the OOC reputation of Toupellon and by extension the players in it. That's hardly fair now, is it? It's why this clause in the Social Contract exists in the first place. No accusations without proof.

So I ask you, since you clearly agree with David D.: Do you have any evidence that Toupellon was planned OOC, that there was, as you say, no IC interaction or RP behind its creation? If the answer is no, then I would still view this as a violation of the Social Contract.

[Anatole]

This has grown out of proportions.

We are discussing matters that have literally no relation to my topic.

I mean, it's pretty interesting to know how a jury in an actual court works, or what happens when you get a traffic ticket and you stall its payment, but really; has any of these things anything to do with my case. I believe not.

I see conversations that stray way out of topic and some statements that only serve to derail the matter.

Toupellon was not formed ooc. I don't care what a player like David thinks is of substance or roleplaying background, all I know is that I engaged in intensive ic letters and preparation months ago, along with the players of Jenred, Claude, James and a few others.

Anatole's purpose was to create a new realm, having the element of surprise along with the support of people who have grown to be fed up with both OW and Cathay. What did anyone expect me to do? Shout it throughout the Far East? Hey guys, I'm planning to secede and spread chaos throughout the midnorthern Far East, nearly destroying two realms that have existed for years in the process. Yeah, I just wanted you to know before I do anything that I am also planning to appoint certain people who aided in the process in goverment seats, in case you confused that with ooc favouritism.

Gee, that argument really works! Excellent roleplaying basis and I can really see now the substance that David and some others mention. How could I not see that before? Let us also change the social contract to: Surprises are prohibited, when you want to do anything please inform all the people who will badmouth you if you don't. Everyone is invited to the party, we have cookies.

I feel really offended about this (pardon my french) bull!@#$. I have people badmouthing me and others on the basis of nothing. It really get out of hand when you let ooc jealousy, complaints or anything else, be implemented in the game. I was accused of ooc planning? Well the only people partaking in an elaborate ooc heist are my accusers.

I request a verdict, this has gone way out of proportions and I can see people getting obviously affected by all this drama. David had his chance to express his side, I don't care why he chose not to, all I care is that he took the time (he and a select others whose names I don't even know) to fall into idiotic hypothesis and scenarios, effectively creating a BM urban legend.

It's a disgrace to the hours I spent playing and conducting letters to others and to the times people spent in the game, taking part in Toupellon's creation.

[Anaris]

Anatole's purpose was to create a new realm, having the element of surprise along with the support of people who have grown to be fed up with both OW and Cathay. What did anyone expect me to do? Shout it throughout the Far East? Hey guys, I'm planning to secede and spread chaos throughout the midnorthern Far East, nearly destroying two realms that have existed for years in the process. Yeah, I just wanted you to know before I do anything that I am also planning to appoint certain people who aided in the process in goverment seats, in case you confused that with ooc favouritism.

Gee, that argument really works! Excellent roleplaying basis and I can really see now the substance that David and some others mention. How could I not see that before? Let us also change the social contract to: Surprises are prohibited, when you want to do anything please inform all the people who will badmouth you if you don't. Everyone is invited to the party, we have cookies.

I completely agree; broadcasting your intent ahead of time is suicidal and stupid.

However, one thing that's done far too rarely is to document at least some of the important moments in the planning of such an event, and work them up into a roleplay to be released once everything's already done and no one can use the information against you anymore.  Not only does it show what went into the planning (thus deflecting some of the criticisms leveled against you here), but it's really cool to read! ;D  You can also see it as sort of a justified brag, "See how all our careful planning has now come to fruition? Aren't we awesome?"

It would be really fun if more people would do that sort of thing (and now I'm thinking about starting to document some of my own plotting, so as to practice what I preach!).

[Anatole]

I can totally see now the usage of a such a document. It would be extremely useful and posted both in the wiki and in game to silence those intent on engaging in idle gossip.

But I could not imagine that this would happen. Neither could I imagine that an event with so many witnesses ( and believe me throughout the months there were many, many players who were informed of Anatole's endeavour) would be so rigidly questioned and slandered.

Roleplay is taking place in Toupellon. As well as discussions and updates to all the realm. The alliances were sealed months ago with promises between Anatole and the players of rulers and those that were not are now being roleplayed (Players of Zonasa visiting Toupellon's capital, we are roleplaying the peace treaty even as I write this). A note to those that use the validity of Toupellon's diplomacy or background: Take a breath, take a step back, relax and try reading some basic astronomy; surprise! You are not the centre of the universe.

[Vellos]

A verdict has been reached, and IG Magistrate actions have been made. For anyone who desires to cite this case in the future, the final verdict was:

"Accusations of cheating, unfair play, and abuses are not an item for public debate and spectacle. They can be addressed through rulers, who can OOC ban, or through the Titans, in the case of multi-cheating, or the Magistrates, in the case of Social Contract violations. Public accusations of cheating, especially without any evidence, amount to ad hominems against players, which will not be tolerated. Such accusations belong in a Magistrate's case, if they belong anywhere at all. Such defamation is prohibited, as it poisons the atmosphere of the game for all players."

Given the real damage done to the reputations of Toupellon and the players in it, and given that the accused player has declined to offer any defense to the Magistrates, and thus based upon what appears to be a clear breach of the Social Contract, the Magistrates will set a three-day lock on David D.'s account."

Magistrates voted 5-0 in favor of a a public warning and 3-day lock as the proper response.

This thread is locked. If you wish to continue debating the issue, it can be done elsewhere. If you have questions for the Magistrates, please take it to the Q&A forum.