Supply Line

[Zakilevo]

Once the dev team manages to start working on a new system for battles,

I hope every army needs a supply line to feed the army. This would surely make generals and marshals to think more.

For the supply line, we can make caravans and traders to carry food+weapon to the armies. It might be nice to have the armies to be affected harshly when they reach a starving region without any food.

Maybe for cavalry units, remove the restriction of moving one region per turn? So they can hit the supply line?

[Indirik]

Funny you should mention this. Tim and I actually worked out some mechanics for supply lines a few months ago. No code, you understand, just talking back and forth. It was kind of fun to talk about, but I don't think it's something that would actually get implemented in the foreseeable future.

IMO, anything like this would have to be implemented in such a way as to make wars *easier* to fight, not harder. For reasons like that, I don't think a supply lines idea would be able to include actual PC trader characters as anything other than "icing on the cake".

[Bedwyr]

For the supply line, we can make caravans and traders to carry food+weapon to the armies. It might be nice to have the armies to be affected harshly when they reach a starving region without any food.

You mean like losing ten percent of your army for spending a day there?  Like...Already happens?

[Zakilevo]

Well I was thinking about something little bit more different. I was thinking the army as a whole should have certain amount of food. So instead of the army sitting in a region eating food, they should only be able to supply themselves with food when they loot the region.

To clarify, the army should have something like what the war chest (I believe it is used for paying half of the repair cost) where food can be stored for the army. When that food runs out while the army is inside of enemy regions, they should starve unless they loot food. Maybe the army should also be able to ration their soldiers. Less food = less morale and less CS. Something like that. And for the supply line, maybe archers should be affected more? like archers should run out of arrows and infantries will run out of swords eventually if they stay on in enemy regions for long.

Well my idea is not really planned out yet.

[Chenier]

Well I was thinking about something little bit more different. I was thinking the army as a whole should have certain amount of food. So instead of the army sitting in a region eating food, they should only be able to supply themselves with food when they loot the region.

To clarify, the army should have something like what the war chest (I believe it is used for paying half of the repair cost) where food can be stored for the army. When that food runs out while the army is inside of enemy regions, they should starve unless they loot food. Maybe the army should also be able to ration their soldiers. Less food = less morale and less CS. Something like that. And for the supply line, maybe archers should be affected more? like archers should run out of arrows and infantries will run out of swords eventually if they stay on in enemy regions for long.

Well my idea is not really planned out yet.

Looting for food usually takes a lot of hours for little gain, however. Forcing people to do it all the time would mean they'd have little time left to do anything else.

[vonGenf]

Looting for food usually takes a lot of hours for little gain, however. Forcing people to do it all the time would mean they'd have little time left to do anything else.

That can be overhauled though.

The problem I see is allied regions. Would this mean you need to loot through allied regions just to be able to go through them? That would be historical, and might lead to interesting situation... but also player backlash.

[JPierreD]

Maybe a very small amount of bushels units could carry for free? Like one per soldier?

[Chenier]

Maybe a very small amount of bushels units could carry for free? Like one per soldier?

If every soldier brings 1 bushel, you'll never need to loot for food.

Bushels are consumed at a rate of 1 per 500 people per day. So unless you plan on staying on the field more than 500 days...

[Indirik]

Well, the problem with most of these ideas is that you're not making fighting wars easier. You're making it harder. Much harder. How well do you think that such a change would be received by the players?

So, what can you do with this idea to provide more things for players to do, while not making it overall harder to fight wars? Say, provide ways for other players to get involved? What bonuses can you provide to offset any penalties that you propose?

Bushels are consumed at a rate of 1 per 500 people per day.

That's the peasant rate. Tom has stated in the past that soldiers consume significantly ore food than that. I don't think anyone has ever calculated it. But it should be pretty easy if you wanted to do it.

[vonGenf]

So, what can you do with this idea to provide more things for players to do, while not making it overall harder to fight wars? Say, provide ways for other players to get involved? What bonuses can you provide to offset any penalties that you propose?

Here's one way to do it:

1. Soldiers no longer automatically consume food from regions they go through.
2. Units have a new stat: provisions, which uses exactly the same mechanic as equipment damage.
2a. When provision>0, units consume x provision per day. This should be made so that each unit can last roughly y days on the field (roughly 7?) with some variation. Cavalry would consume more, and there may be regional factors.
2b. To replenish your provisions, you must buy food from a region with a marketplace or a player who has brought a caravan.
2c. When you run out of provision, your unit start dieing and deserting with the exact same mechanic as currently applies.
3. The caravan mechanics is otherwise completely unchanged, and food from caravans can be used when provisions are depleted. Soldiers with caravans can have brought extra food with them. Traders can steal food on the black market. Soldiers with caravans can loot food and take it from the region, and then sell it to other players who need it.

This wouldn't make war so much more difficult. This would make marketplaces in your own realm more important as the soldiers would need them instead of just picking up food as to go around - in most places there is one in the capital, and you should need it roughly each time you refit.

For very long expeditions, it would would require to either loot the territory they are passing through or go in convoy with extra caravans.

Selling directly to soldiers may be restricted to traders, but ordinary soldiers should be able to get food directly into their caravans by looting. Therefore traders would only really be required if you want to travel a very long way without looting. That makes sense.

It would also give a better sense of a supply line than the current "we just walk there".

[Zakilevo]

Allowing more people to participate in a war while making it easier will be difficult. Most of the time, more people means more complication. For the food problem of this idea, I was thinking if the region is friendly to you, people with a good oratory skill should have an option to be able to ask for a cooperation from locals. For the supply line, I was thinking as the army moves, they should maybe have an option to set a supply base where they can fix their equipment slightly and receive food but I think this idea is just making things more difficult.

[TragerM]

I suggested something a lot more detailed than this, a long time ago, and was told it wouldn't happen, because it would make long distance fighting easier, as well as supposedly being thought to be intolerable for new players to be tasked with doing things like this (dunno why it was automatically assumed new players would be the ONLY ones to be involved, but go figure)...

Regardless, unless Tom and others have changed their minds about the concept, something tells me to doubt it'll happen...

[Chenier]

Well, the problem with most of these ideas is that you're not making fighting wars easier. You're making it harder. Much harder. How well do you think that such a change would be received by the players?

So, what can you do with this idea to provide more things for players to do, while not making it overall harder to fight wars? Say, provide ways for other players to get involved? What bonuses can you provide to offset any penalties that you propose?
That's the peasant rate. Tom has stated in the past that soldiers consume significantly ore food than that. I don't think anyone has ever calculated it. But it should be pretty easy if you wanted to do it.

Really? Hmm, I could do the math I guess. Not particularly tempted to bother with that right now, though, but I'll add it on my to-do list.