Sanguis Astroism

[Zakilevo]

If we had more players I think SA would have reached farther south but with 150 people they could only cover half the continent. It was fun while SA was expanding. But like the Roman Empire, once you reach a certain size, you realize you can't expand anymore and from that point on it is an endless battle to keep what you already have.

[Indirik]

I think you're pretty much right. Everyone that was going to join had already joined. They only way to continue the expansion was through force of arms. And that was impractical, beyond a limited extent. We did get a bit more expansion by allowing the southerners to gain more influence within the church.

We squashed every other religion on the continent. The only ones that remained for quite some time were ineffectual, and nearly extinct, remnants and scraps. In that sense, SA did achieve a form of world domination. It may not have converted the entirety of the nobility, or replaced all realms with theocracies (neither of which were truly core goals of the religion anyway), but it did achieve religious domination of the island. Now it will live to carry on the legacy, and to form various splinter factions and related variants.

From an OOC perspective, the splinter/derivative faiths are the next obvious step in the story of SA, even though the IC/IG faith itself will not appreciate their existence.

[Daycryn]

SA hasn't had a presence or even priests in Asylon for ages even after Asylon repeatedly called for SA priests to come preach to their flock. I think what we have here is SA actually thinking they are important when really years of corruption and stagnation of ideas and a prophet who can't even be bothered to play has brought the whole rotten carcass down around it and even then you have these kind of delusional golden robed bejewelled nobles wandering around the smoking hulk tittering and oblivious to the fact that their entire world has changed and will continue to change.

Yes, your indifference towards SA is notorious. That's why you're posting here so frequently. Because of how unimportant it all is to you.

[Dishman]

...Everyone that was going to join had already joined. They only way to continue the expansion was through force of arms. And that was impractical, beyond a limited extent...

It may have reached its peak as it was, but now the church might attract more interest. I half expect to see SA rise like a phoenix after the loss of the prophet. Already more people have shown interest in being their own prophet than there were people interested in being at the head of SA last election.

There will certainly be people who think they can gain something in the chaos. Most folk may agree with the charter and the old rank and file system, but now the floodgate has opened. First a realm rejects theocracy, now we have schismatic religions headed by influential members of their realm. It's better to fall quick cause atrophy makes it much harder to get back up.

[Zakilevo]

So what happened at the end? Who won? Jonsu or one of those self-nominated prophets?

As for splinter religions, I doubt any of them will become big enough to be significant. At most they will have around 30-40. That is nothing more than a local religion level.

[dustole]

So what happened at the end? Who won? Jonsu or one of those self-nominated prophets?

Helm gained the majority of the support from SA.   Jonsu and Alaster have yet to do their RP battle.

[OFaolain]

Helm gained the majority of the support from SA.   Jonsu and Alaster have yet to do their RP battle.

I'm pretty sure Alaster can get back into at least some semblance of good graces with the rest of the Church by denying that he was ever a Prophet and that he only claimed such to rally support against Jonsu.  Of course, such a claim would be up to you.

[dustole]

I'm pretty sure Alaster can get back into at least some semblance of good graces with the rest of the Church by denying that he was ever a Prophet and that he only claimed such to rally support against Jonsu.  Of course, such a claim would be up to you.

Alaster is a Kabrinski.  There are a handful of nobles on Dwilight that would oppose a Kabrinski if they said the sky was blue.   Very vocal opposition.   So I'm not sure how this will all go down.  I can tell you that some people won't be very happy when this is all over.

[Glaumring the Fox]

Yes, your indifference towards SA is notorious. That's why you're posting here so frequently. Because of how unimportant it all is to you.

Well, I used to actually run a theocracy and then ran a kingdom as an SA king, was an SA consul etc so yeah im indifferent. I didnt actually leave until the prophet supported Kabrinskia. Asylon was a very SA pro realm with a small group of Elementalists in our group. SA could have very easily made massive support with Asylon but in stead chose to antagonize us. Yet, through it all we still maintain our SA temples and allow SA the same rights as nonSA. Its not that we didnt extend our hand its that SA needed a boogy man where none was in the first place and it cane back to bite them.

[Meneldur]

I actually doubt that a great splintering is what is in store for SA; rather I see it becoming even more of a silent flavour religion. Recent events such as the defeat of Astrum, Jonsu's rise to power, and the loss of many of our most active players, seems to me to indicate that the days of a strong and assertive Elders Council are long gone, at least until the memories of the recent disasters have passed. No one I think wants another disastrous war, or another maniacal Regent. Indeed, if the recent weeks of having no Elders have proven anything its that an active Elders Council is by no means required for the vast majority of SA in the North-east to continue as normal.

I agree that we're likely to see (or indeed already have seen) splits from the peripheries of SA, as ambitious nobles realise that with the threat of any retribution gone its far better to be  a prophet of a small local faith than a lowly follower of a large one based half a continent away. But the heartland of SA, the theocracies, will likely remain as they are considering that at least nominal adherence to SA is a large part of the political system.

Call me a pessimist but I think the days of a religion of Dwilight commanding multiple realms to act according to its will are a thing of the past. SA will likely just become the bland and inactive flavour religion of the North-east (and possibly D'Hara).

[Indirik]

SA could have very easily made massive support with Asylon but in stead chose to antagonize us. Yet, through it all we still maintain our SA temples and allow SA the same rights as nonSA. Its not that we didnt extend our hand its that SA needed a boogy man where none was in the first place and it cane back to bite them.

* Indirik yawns....

"Asylon could have very easily made massive support with SA but in stead chose to antagonize us. Its not that we didn't extend our hand its that Asylon suffered from delusional paranoid fantasies."

I'm going to put that one in the autocorrect dictionary, so that when this entire train of discussion rolls around for the 433rd time, I can just type "paranoid" and it autocorrects to that quote.

[Chenier]

Yea, this will not help anything or make anything more fun.

It only pissed off the active players, some of who outright deleted their characters (maybe even account?), others who couldn't care for anything anymore. Why invest yourself in anything when such dick moves will be tolerated?

The splinter religions will be bland. They always are. They won't have the critical mass needed to spark any interest, and even if their founder really really wants to do something interesting, it'll just wear them off. They'll also never become meaningful. Just got a report myself of Fulco getting beaten up by preaching unitary astroism in his own realm... how does he expect to convert regions with temples and so many followers to SA? If it's gonna happen, it's going to take forever.

[Dishman]

It only pissed off the active players, some of who outright deleted their characters (maybe even account?), others who couldn't care for anything anymore. Why invest yourself in anything when such dick moves will be tolerated?

I'm still surprised by the rage-quits. You can't turn around in most continents without seeing someone make a dick move that will inevitably destroy a realm. A gang-bang here, unreasonable diplomacy changes there, backstabs/betrayals/secessions and allegiance changes scattered throughout. Everyone seems willing to fight in the most Machiavellian ways they can muster to make sure their team turns out on top.

I have seen lamentations and gnashing of teeth on the forum from dick moves. People usually carry on, though. I'm starting to think that some of the quits/deletions were just looking for a reason. I think it was Vellos who said he had been waning on the game for quite some time.

[Arundel]

The splinter religions will be bland. They always are. They won't have the critical mass needed to spark any interest, and even if their founder really really wants to do something interesting, it'll just wear them off. They'll also never become meaningful. Just got a report myself of Fulco getting beaten up by preaching unitary astroism in his own realm... how does he expect to convert regions with temples and so many followers to SA? If it's gonna happen, it's going to take forever.

Whoa there guy, shots fired. Kidding. Whether or not a splinter religion is bland depends on who's judging it. I know several people who find the current SA splinter religions incredibly interesting, while others most certainly do not. So long as the number of people interested exceeds 0, interest has been sparked, despite how insignificant one might find that in the grand scheme of things. A collection of small events eventually culminate into larger events, so who knows what lies waiting for us in the future? If this game was solely about invoking large, widespread events (stating that said events were the only interesting ones,) I would have abandoned it within the first week of playing. For me personally, the gigantic, seemingly impossible, uphill battle against SA is what makes the splinter religions fun and interesting; the massive potential they garner cannot be ignored, even in the face of insurmountable odds. I believe this because challenge, struggle and adversity are the primary sources of entertainment in this game, thus the "Battle" in "BattleMaster."

If it takes forever to develop and spread splinter religions, that's fine. If the splinter religions are crushed, that's also fine. Both of these situations inevitably involve some sort of roleplay and effort. It's about the journey, not the destination. Come on, Chénier, try to be more positive once in a while. ;)

[Chenier]

Whoa there guy, shots fired. Kidding. Whether or not a splinter religion is bland depends on who's judging it. I know several people who find the current SA splinter religions incredibly interesting, while others most certainly do not. So long as the number of people interested exceeds 0, interest has been sparked, despite how insignificant one might find that in the grand scheme of things. A collection of small events eventually culminate into larger events, so who knows what lies waiting for us in the future? If this game was solely about invoking large, widespread events (stating that said events were the only interesting ones,) I would have abandoned it within the first week of playing. For me personally, the gigantic, seemingly impossible, uphill battle against SA is what makes the splinter religions fun and interesting; the massive potential they garner cannot be ignored, even in the face of insurmountable odds. I believe this because challenge, struggle and adversity are the primary sources of entertainment in this game, thus the "Battle" in "BattleMaster."

If it takes forever to develop and spread splinter religions, that's fine. If the splinter religions are crushed, that's also fine. Both of these situations inevitably involve some sort of roleplay and effort. It's about the journey, not the destination. Come on, Chénier, try to be more positive once in a while. ;)

They may be fun to a few people now, that I will concede, but I still do not believe they hold any potential on the long term.

Religions suck. Rare are the religions that managed to attract any significant player investment. And this just went to prove to everyone that investing yourselves in religions is simply a dumb thing to do.

I'm still surprised by the rage-quits. You can't turn around in most continents without seeing someone make a dick move that will inevitably destroy a realm. A gang-bang here, unreasonable diplomacy changes there, backstabs/betrayals/secessions and allegiance changes scattered throughout. Everyone seems willing to fight in the most Machiavellian ways they can muster to make sure their team turns out on top.

I have seen lamentations and gnashing of teeth on the forum from dick moves. People usually carry on, though. I'm starting to think that some of the quits/deletions were just looking for a reason. I think it was Vellos who said he had been waning on the game for quite some time.

I'm still dismayed about your short-sightedness.

It was a dick move on an OOC level, because it makes absolutely no sense IC. A guild leader that suddenly turns on all of his investors and claims all of their investments for himself is fine, a religion leader that turns on his hundreds of noble followers and hundreds of thousands of peasant followers, to appoint the most hated person in the group as head of the faith (and who has the support of a number of people that one can count with a single hand) is not. And on the SMA continent on top of it.

You exploited the poor mechanics religions were implemented with to create a situation so surreal it is ridiculous. That the mechanics allowed you to do this doesn't mean that the mechanics were right to allow it and that you were right to do so.

It also shines the weakness of the player control mechanics. Titans don't seem to ever really treat cases, magistrate cases are lingering as many of us are just too pissed with the game to bother taking any initiative with treating the cases, and the SMA police, which are the titans I believe, have over the years reduced their vision of SMA as what could basically be described as an over-glorified vulgarity report system.

We are supposed to be playing together as friends around a table. A lot of us here would never have pulled off a move like you did. And the people we trust to keep this player-to-player atmosphere true have failed to inspired any confidence or provide any satisfaction.