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BattleMaster => Locals => Dwilight => Topic started by: dustole on October 09, 2011, 09:56:35 PM

Title: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: dustole on October 09, 2011, 09:56:35 PM
It is nice to see some debate and discussion in the church.  It had been eerily quite for a while.  I was waiting to see what the next big thing of contention would be.

I am curious to see what the next Consul elections will bring.  With the founding of our charter and making the Regency an elected position it will be quite fun!
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chenier on October 09, 2011, 10:01:00 PM
SA? That's soooo yesterday.  8)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Kain on October 09, 2011, 10:49:21 PM
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Adriddae on October 09, 2011, 11:06:02 PM
Creed is the new Garret.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chenier on October 09, 2011, 11:53:33 PM
It was sooo the day before yesterday, then it slept yesterday and now it is soooo today ;)

Nah, you're thinking about Riombara/Enweil.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Perth on October 10, 2011, 12:11:51 AM
*yawn*

So what's going on in the Maroccidens?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chenier on October 10, 2011, 12:16:14 AM
*yawn*

So what's going on in the Maroccidens?

Now THAT's hot stuff!
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Peri on October 10, 2011, 10:35:42 AM
I wonder whether who was complaining about hte lack of messages in SA is now happy. I am not :p
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Kain on October 10, 2011, 12:03:04 PM
I wonder whether who was complaining about hte lack of messages in SA is now happy. I am not :p

I am happy :D
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Creed on October 10, 2011, 11:32:50 PM
Yeah I am now probably the most hated person in Sanguis Astroism. You guys should see some of the letters people sent me lol. Well I am having a blast. I hope you guys are all having fun to. Though it is getting hard to keep up with all the people sending me comments lol just so many.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Creed on October 10, 2011, 11:36:26 PM
Oh and guys almost forgot just make sure to keep your eyes open I have some big big things planed lol.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: dustole on October 11, 2011, 01:09:33 AM
Your trial will likely come soon.  I've been trying to stop it, but so far to no avail.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Creed on October 11, 2011, 01:24:18 AM
Ah it would be a shame if I get excommunicated from the church but that is battle master for you.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chenier on October 11, 2011, 01:34:10 AM
Yeah I am now probably the most hated person in Sanguis Astroism. You guys should see some of the letters people sent me lol. Well I am having a blast. I hope you guys are all having fun to. Though it is getting hard to keep up with all the people sending me comments lol just so many.

What earned you the honour?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Creed on October 11, 2011, 01:39:59 AM
lol if you could read some of the nice letters of people showing their love my my character you would understand.  Though being the most hated of all time I do not claim that I just state that as of right now creed is not very liked by most.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chenier on October 11, 2011, 01:43:12 AM
lol if you could read some of the nice letters of people showing their love my my character you would understand.  Though being the most hated of all time I do not claim that I just state that as of right now creed is not very liked by most.

So... does that mean SA will crusade against the Lurias?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on October 11, 2011, 01:58:09 AM
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chenier on October 11, 2011, 01:59:05 AM
Nah... Creed is leading the "Why can't we all just get along and love everyone?" faction. The people that think that if we just try to get to know the other religions, we can cooperate with them in a big brotherly lovefest of goodwill.

Or something like that.

Been a while since the last crusade...
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Creed on October 11, 2011, 03:43:26 AM
LOL Indirik guess my character does not have yours support. Though I think a lot of people are getting a misunderstand what I am going for. My character is a warrior and as thus I love war more then most. So I am not going for the "Why can't we all just get along and love everyone?" faction as you say.

Just commenting that there was no reason that we needed to call crusades on some of the realms we did.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on October 11, 2011, 03:47:03 AM
There was always a reason for the crusades that were called. If for nothing more than "We need something to do". Besides, being friends with everyone is so boring... And what fun is having a really big hammer if you never hit anything with it?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Kain on October 11, 2011, 03:51:42 AM
LOL Indirik guess my character does not have yours support. Though I think a lot of people are getting a misunderstand what I am going for. My character is a warrior and as thus I love war more then most. So I am not going for the "Why can't we all just get along and love everyone?" faction as you say.

Just commenting that there was no reason that we needed to call crusades on some of the realms we did.

He does sound like the hippie of the SA crowd, just so you're aware :p
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Creed on October 11, 2011, 04:05:42 AM
LOL ah well then I guess I will have to make some changes then I did not want peace with everyone I actually have a plan I am working on to cause war. Thanks though for helping me out.

Creed does not want to be a hippie of SA!

Though I will tell you one thing I blew up the message boards in SA  lol. Did not think it was going to get that big.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on October 11, 2011, 04:21:36 AM
12 hours, 94 new messages. Looks like the SA channel is back to its usual tricks...
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on October 11, 2011, 05:17:48 AM
LOL ah well then I guess I will have to make some changes then I did not want peace with everyone I actually have a plan I am working on to cause war. Thanks though for helping me out.

Creed does not want to be a hippie of SA!

Though I will tell you one thing I blew up the message boards in SA  lol. Did not think it was going to get that big.

You start a debate in SA at your own risk. They almost always blow up. Especially when you put the words 'Prophet' and 'infallible' in the same sentence. It also probably doesn't help that you started coming up with new theology. Yep, you are almost certainly going to end up as the defendant in the first Magistratum trial we've had since... Allison's second trial? Maybe Garret's? I can't really remember which one came first...
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: dustole on October 11, 2011, 05:48:04 AM
It all comes down to what Constantine says.  The Luminaries aren't unanimous for it.  The Consuls aren't unanimous for it and 2 of the 3 Lights support it.  So by the rules of the Magistratum it comes down to Constantine.   He could just sit back and do nothing, voting neither way and let it die in 6 days.   Yes, no or nothing, I am curious to see what becomes of it all.  I have  a chance to tweak the Magistratum process when I'm not the one being targeted.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Zakilevo on October 11, 2011, 05:49:51 AM
So many messages! I never expected so many letters in a day. Now I understand why people wanted to be demoted lol.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on October 11, 2011, 05:58:33 AM
It all comes down to what Constantine says.  The Luminaries aren't unanimous for it.  The Consuls aren't unanimous for it and 2 of the 3 Lights support it.  So by the rules of the Magistratum it comes down to Constantine.   He could just sit back and do nothing, voting neither way and let it die in 6 days.   Yes, no or nothing, I am curious to see what becomes of it all.  I have  a chance to tweak the Magistratum process when I'm not the one being targeted.

There's only ever been one trial in our history that didn't involve you, so you certainly haven't had many opportunities, have you?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on October 11, 2011, 06:34:41 AM
Oh you all forget my trial... :(
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on October 11, 2011, 02:45:23 PM
Glaumring had a trial?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on October 11, 2011, 05:15:51 PM
Yeah when i was new to tge church and knew nothing about it i claimed to worship the maddening star only. Not knowing you couldnt seperate them.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on October 12, 2011, 02:38:50 AM
Yeah when i was new to tge church and knew nothing about it i claimed to worship the maddening star only. Not knowing you couldnt seperate them.

Did you actually have a trial, or just get threatened with one? I don't really recall this at all.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on October 12, 2011, 03:15:23 AM
There was a secret trial of elders or something, they even sent me a letter which I cannot find as of now or perhaps I didn't save it but here is the roleplay that resulted from it.

The letter arrived as if pulled by the very wind and was left in Glaumrings hand, he studied it for a moment, and his heart sank, it was from Corsanctum...

he peeled the seal and read through the letter, upon finishing it he slowly placed it in his cloak. His men were gathered around for they were on patrol in Storms end , they saw Glaumrings face.

"I have been found not guilty...." He said to everyone around him.

His men shouted and cheered, everyone was filled with relief and whatever dark clouds that roiled around them were now gone. Fittingly , as if planned by fate, standing in a place called Storms end , truly the stars guided every thing  for this was no coincidence...Nothing was coincidence, it was all ordained. Everything that had happened was like clockwork like the very fluctuation of the heavens.

"When we return to Storms keep there will be a river of wine flowing down  the torrents breath all the way to Holy Corsanctum! And we shall mark this day as a festival forevermore... Festival of the Storms end"
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on October 12, 2011, 03:37:29 AM
There was a secret trial of elders or something, they even sent me a letter which I cannot find as of now or perhaps I didn't save it but here is the roleplay that resulted from it.

The letter arrived as if pulled by the very wind and was left in Glaumrings hand, he studied it for a moment, and his heart sank, it was from Corsanctum...

he peeled the seal and read through the letter, upon finishing it he slowly placed it in his cloak. His men were gathered around for they were on patrol in Storms end , they saw Glaumrings face.

"I have been found not guilty...." He said to everyone around him.

His men shouted and cheered, everyone was filled with relief and whatever dark clouds that roiled around them were now gone. Fittingly , as if planned by fate, standing in a place called Storms end , truly the stars guided every thing  for this was no coincidence...Nothing was coincidence, it was all ordained. Everything that had happened was like clockwork like the very fluctuation of the heavens.

"When we return to Storms keep there will be a river of wine flowing down  the torrents breath all the way to Holy Corsanctum! And we shall mark this day as a festival forevermore... Festival of the Storms end"


Of course "Secret"
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: dustole on October 24, 2011, 05:56:56 AM
Golden Farrow!!!!!
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on October 24, 2011, 06:01:52 AM
*Geronus queues up the Imperial March from Star Wars on his iPod.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on October 24, 2011, 05:21:05 PM
*ewok music can be heard emanating from Asylon from the walls of Golden Farrow
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on October 24, 2011, 10:13:00 PM
Everyone knows that the ending to that movie was just propaganda spread by the Rebellion to spread discord throughout the galaxy, bringing death to untold billions.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on October 24, 2011, 11:38:51 PM
Ee-cha-wah-wah!
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Zakilevo on October 25, 2011, 12:33:58 AM
Allison's new realm name is crazy!. She is trying to build Allison's wonderland or something? Kabrinskia? Really?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: dustole on October 25, 2011, 12:49:04 AM
:D   I like the idea of that name.   It massages her egotistical side and hints at a bit of tyranny.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Adriddae on October 25, 2011, 01:19:16 AM
Allison's new realm name is crazy!. She is trying to build Allison's wonderland or something? Kabrinskia? Really?

Allison in Wonderland?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on October 25, 2011, 02:03:15 AM
Wonderland was my vote. I don't think Dustin bought it, though.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: dustole on October 25, 2011, 03:27:51 AM
Iratustella      Is a mash of latin words essentially meaning Wrath of the Stars!
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on October 27, 2011, 07:43:34 PM
Looks like Terran is trying to pull a fast one over Demyansk. Curiouser and curiouser...
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on October 27, 2011, 08:27:00 PM
This is why every continent needs a Hireshmont. :P
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: JPierreD on October 27, 2011, 09:18:45 PM
Well, somehow I think SA has a lot to lose from this situation. First because Terran is far away, further away than Caerwyn is, so Astroist armies would have to travel more, stay in the field less, and stay out longer. Second because Terran, on defense, would have support from the 'moot, which would quite strengthen its position. Third, because it would make SA as a religion very badly seen in the Maroccidens, losing foothold in there, should it fight the 'moot.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Zakilevo on October 27, 2011, 09:22:43 PM
Hireshmont? What is that?

About the travel time, it isn't much of a problem anymore. We control the half of the inner sea. Things are now much quicker since we have gained control over Golden Ferrow. We do not need to attack Terran really. Terran can't do much to stop us from taking those regions they are claiming to be their own.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on October 27, 2011, 09:56:02 PM
In all honesty, it never occurred to me when I was planning Terran's expansion northwards several weeks ago that Demyansk would be claimed by anyone else. Partly I thought the colony was not going to happen for a long time, and partly because I mostly wasn't thinking about the colony much at all. I was thinking almost entirely about D'Hara's food supply, and it happens to be a rural within Terran's relatively easy reach. My only real thought about the colony was that, when it happened (in my mind in several RL months), Terran would have fully developed the region and, though Allison might want it, it wouldn't be as clear cut. At worst, if it looked like Astrum planned on really enforcing the claim, I had considered making it a "gift," so as to buy a bit of Allison's friendship. :P

IC-wise what Hireshmont may be doing I won't say. But, OOCly, I now feel like an idiot, because it really never occurred to me that anyone else would claim Demyansk... and though apparently everyone BESIDES Terran's Senate knew this, nobody told Hireshmont.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on October 27, 2011, 10:07:03 PM
IC-wise what Hireshmont may be doing I won't say. But, OOCly, I now feel like an idiot, because it really never occurred to me that anyone else would claim Demyansk... and though apparently everyone BESIDES Terran's Senate knew this, nobody told Hireshmont.

The hilarious part is that Labell probably /should/ have known this... And certainly could have found out with minimal effort.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on October 27, 2011, 10:12:11 PM
Well, somehow I think SA has a lot to lose from this situation. First because Terran is far away, further away than Caerwyn is, so Astroist armies would have to travel more, stay in the field less, and stay out longer. Second because Terran, on defense, would have support from the 'moot, which would quite strengthen its position. Third, because it would make SA as a religion very badly seen in the Maroccidens, losing foothold in there, should it fight the 'moot.

Why SA? This is a secular dispute between Terran and Caerwyn's successor. Astrum is merely championing the rights of the realm that will soon replace Caerwyn.

SA doesn't have much presence in the Moot anyway. I think we have one temple in D'Hara and only one in Terran, since a certain Chief Magistrate had one of his vassals close down the other one we had back when he was Senator of Chesny. Not likely to help him in this situation, actually, if anyone recalls that fact.  ;D

Edit: I take it back, we have three in Terran! Count me surprised. Of course only one of those regions actually sports any followers, I assume because its the one Senator Labell currently rules. In general, the only following we have in Terran is wherever he happens to be ruling at any given time. At least that's historically been the case.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Telrunya on October 27, 2011, 10:24:39 PM
I believe the island of Port Nebel except for Qubel Lighthouse has SA Temples, with two SA Lords. Of course D'Hara also has Priest Constantine Meneldur as part of her Nobility. I believe that counts for something at least :) For the rest, I don't think much active converting is going on in D'Hara with Nobles.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on October 27, 2011, 10:40:23 PM
IC-wise what Hireshmont may be doing I won't say. But, OOCly, I now feel like an idiot, because it really never occurred to me that anyone else would claim Demyansk... and though apparently everyone BESIDES Terran's Senate knew this, nobody told Hireshmont.
I hate it when that happens!

Your letters are quite fun, though.

Out of curiosity, why did you seek Asylon as a partner in a treaty granting Terran domain over three regions that had absolutely nothing at all to do with Asylon? Was it just because Asylon was signatory to the original treaty? Because, really, that's the part of it that seems the silliest of all, and is probably pisses Brance off more than anything else. "Hey Astrum, we're taking these three regions. And it's all cool, because Asylon says so!"
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Telrunya on October 27, 2011, 10:42:22 PM
Everyone knows Asylon is the one that controls all the SA Theocracies behind the scenes, sjeesh!
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Zakilevo on October 27, 2011, 10:58:09 PM
Everyone knows Asylon is the one that controls all the SA Theocracies behind the scenes, sjeesh!

Uhh really? I never knew that.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on October 27, 2011, 11:35:29 PM
Everyone knows Asylon is the one that controls all the SA Theocracies behind the scenes, sjeesh!

You've been talking to Glaumring too much  8)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chenier on October 28, 2011, 12:54:59 AM
I hate it when that happens!

Your letters are quite fun, though.

Out of curiosity, why did you seek Asylon as a partner in a treaty granting Terran domain over three regions that had absolutely nothing at all to do with Asylon? Was it just because Asylon was signatory to the original treaty? Because, really, that's the part of it that seems the silliest of all, and is probably pisses Brance off more than anything else. "Hey Astrum, we're taking these three regions. And it's all cool, because Asylon says so!"

That was my reaction when I heard of the treaty, and I didn't even know what Astrum's claims were. but I did think to myself "Uh, why are they claiming ex-Caerwyn lands without consulting the people that defeated them?".
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on October 28, 2011, 01:11:14 AM
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on October 28, 2011, 03:10:12 AM
My prediction is that there will be a hardcore faction of SA fundamentalists and a moderate core... There will be a war between these forces to decide the fate of Dwilight... Glaumring will win that war and become a living god worshiped by all and recognized as the second coming of the astral prophet ordained by the very Bloodstars and brought to earth to save all your souls and forgive your sins...  8)

He will be persecuted for his beliefs... Be tortured, and then hung on a red pentagram and die... Rising on the 3rd day...
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Zakilevo on October 28, 2011, 04:52:26 AM
My prediction is that there will be a hardcore faction of SA fundamentalists and a moderate core... There will be a war between these forces to decide the fate of Dwilight... Glaumring will win that war and become a living god worshiped by all and recognized as the second coming of the astral prophet ordained by the very Bloodstars and brought to earth to save all your souls and forgive your sins...  8)

He will be persecuted for his beliefs... Be tortured, and then hung on a red pentagram and die... Rising on the 3rd day...

I think I already heard three people with the exact same miracle lol
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chenier on October 28, 2011, 08:02:28 AM
To build up a backed and ratified claim to use as a negotiation with the "real" claim holder. This was quite common, get other parties to recognise your claim in order to challenge other claims. It was helpful if those that recognised your claim also had a legitimate claim, but not needed.

That would apply to regions that were never colonized or claimed by anyone. For example, D'Hara claiming to Desert of Silouhettes, and making deals with people to have them all recognize this to put pressure on everyone else to not contest the claim.

Denmyask, though? It seemed pretty obvious the Astrum colony would want it. And Asylon saying "sure, you can have it" doesn't really mean squat as they obviously don't hold any authority over it.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on October 28, 2011, 08:22:31 AM
Out of curiosity, why did you seek Asylon as a partner in a treaty granting Terran domain over three regions that had absolutely nothing at all to do with Asylon? Was it just because Asylon was signatory to the original treaty? Because, really, that's the part of it that seems the silliest of all, and is probably pisses Brance off more than anything else. "Hey Astrum, we're taking these three regions. And it's all cool, because Asylon says so!"

Many reasons:
1. Legal Claims of Central Occidens
Asylon was a signatory. Seemed like a good idea to talk to'em. Moreover, the Legal Claims state that claims can be transferred. Numerous Caerwynians joined Asylon, and the "government in exile" in Madina seemed fine with annexation. Only Itau could oppose, and Terran decided to nullify their claim. So we regarded Asylon as the implicit claim-holders: again, because it just didn't occur to me that there was any immediate question of Golden Farrow being colonized.

2. Asylon's Expanse
When I started plotting Terran's northward expansion, Asylon held Farrowfield. We weren't sure of Asylon's capability to hold any of these lands, but that's how things stood. As Asylon could make a real claim to inheriting Caerwyn's claims, and as they pragmatically had a big influx of nobles and their borders practically encircled Terran, they seemed like the logical people to approach. It doesn't look that way now that they've lost a few regions and there's an Astrum flag on the map. But it sure looked that way two or three weeks ago.

3. Diplomacy
Never miss a chance to make a friend. Hash out an agreement that grants us both claims we never had any intention of violating? Wonderful! It means we have a conversation and learn how to work with one another. Hireshmont is big into personal diplomacy, largely because I enjoy it as a player.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on October 28, 2011, 12:39:35 PM
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chenier on October 28, 2011, 01:48:02 PM
Previous occupation of the region is just a greater reason to seek OTHERS to ratify your own claim in order to challenge the logical claim of the successor realm.

That wasn't their goal, though. Vellos said so: he just overlooked it.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on October 28, 2011, 05:26:33 PM
Many reasons:
1. Legal Claims of Central Occidens
Asylon was a signatory.
That seemed like the most logical reason. I wouldn't have considered Asylon a claim holder on that land, though.

Quote
2. Asylon's Expanse
When I started plotting Terran's northward expansion, Asylon held Farrowfield. We weren't sure of Asylon's capability to hold any of these lands, but that's how things stood. As Asylon could make a real claim to inheriting Caerwyn's claims, and as they pragmatically had a big influx of nobles and their borders practically encircled Terran, they seemed like the logical people to approach. It doesn't look that way now that they've lost a few regions and there's an Astrum flag on the map. But it sure looked that way two or three weeks ago.
If all you did was look at flags on a map, then sure, you could think that was the situation. But if you took a good look at the real situation "on the ground", so to speak, it was anything but that. We knew that Asylon would never hold all that land. Didn't ever have a prayer at holding it. And Asylon already knew that Astrum claimed all that land for the new colony.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on October 28, 2011, 09:09:14 PM
Astrum said, the reality is that our flag flew over many of those lands. We allowed some of the lands to faulter of goodwill to Astrum. Any lands that caerwyn claimed but never flew flag over we didnt respect anyways. The middle regions are messy, the new colony is in a messy area. Asylon has ceded certain lands to Terran and Astrum.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Zakilevo on October 29, 2011, 12:22:08 AM
Does Asylon even have any claim over any land except the west side of Via? I mean only reason they gained any land above Via was because Caerwyn surrendered to Asylon. Doubt they can be counted as gaining a claim.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on October 29, 2011, 02:27:02 AM
Depends on how you view the claim. The prior lords and nobles can surely be said to have a personal claim. And the realm can choose to press that claim on their behalf.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Galvez on October 31, 2011, 11:53:20 AM
It does not matter who has claim to what. For a new realm to succeed in Golden Farrow it shouldn't desire a war with Asylon and the 'Moot. And therefore give Terran and Asylon what they want.  ;)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on October 31, 2011, 12:52:00 PM
Given the historical track record of any realm declaring war and attacking SA theocracies, I'd think you would want to avoid that at all costs, unless you have a death wish.

But I'm not sure how you think the situation would devolve into war with Asylon, of all realms. Since Asylon is not asking for anything at all, I fail to see how they could not get what they want. Even the treaty with Terran that Asylon signed last week gives them nothing beyond a mutual defense treaty of negligible value.

And besides all that, this is Allison moving into Golden Farrow. Do you really think she won't start up trouble with someone?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Galvez on October 31, 2011, 01:25:31 PM
So in fact you are saying, destroy Allison's realm now, or else she will come to destroy us.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on October 31, 2011, 01:33:12 PM
You're welcome to give it a try. It could be a fun diversion for a day or two.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: vonGenf on October 31, 2011, 01:47:32 PM
So in fact you are saying, destroy Allison's realm now, or else she will come to destroy us.

Resistance IS futile. Come on, you know that.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Lorgan on October 31, 2011, 04:03:11 PM
It's unsettling how Dwilight's history resembles a bad action film scene where the hero finds himself surrounded by a dozen crooks who are somehow well-mannered enough to only charge at him one after another.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on October 31, 2011, 04:05:25 PM
Since Asylon is not asking for anything at all

Neither is Terran.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Galvez on October 31, 2011, 04:51:59 PM
You're welcome to give it a try. It could be a fun diversion for a day or two.
Resistance IS futile. Come on, you know that.
The Astroists are a little overconfident, aren't they?  :D
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on October 31, 2011, 06:58:32 PM
The Astroists are a little overconfident, aren't they?  :D

A history of utterly annihilating one's enemies will do that  ;)

The whole business with Caerwyn has us united and in a very bellicose mood. Moderates and peaceniks of all stripes have more or less gone into hiding or been converted into hawks, at least temporarily. This is probably the worst possible time in the history of Dwilight to start trouble with SA, no joke.

The bear is not asleep, it is very awake and very angry, and freshly returned from a very satisfying mauling. So satisfying in fact that it's really considering abandoning rooting for grubs and honey and taking up mauling on a full-time basis, as a sort of professional killer bear. After all it reflects, nature seems to have given it a whole lot of pointy claws and teeth and a large amount of muscle with which to employ them, so perhaps this is what it intended for bears all along, and all those grubs and honey were really just distractions from its true purpose, which is apparently to maul innocent campers, especially ones seen in possession of pointy sticks the sort with which it was recently poked by a couple of particularly overconfident campers, much to their eventual dismay.

Campers beware: Avoid the bear. And avoid picking up pointy sticks. The bear will eventually realize that it can't make a living mauling things, and then it will go back to periodically hibernating and rooting for grubs and honey. But until that time, it would be most unwise for any camper to approach the bear, especially while in possession of a pointy stick.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: vonGenf on October 31, 2011, 07:00:53 PM
The bear will eventually realize that it can't make a living mauling things, and then it will go back to periodically hibernating and rooting for grubs and honey.

Are you 100% certain it can't? That does look like a very satisfying living.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Zakilevo on October 31, 2011, 07:05:10 PM
As long as pests do not bother the beast...
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on October 31, 2011, 07:17:33 PM
Well, Hireshmont just called Brance a panicky liar unable to manage his own realm in front of the rulers of several realms.

Poke?

I know Astroism can beat the Moot in a war. Hireshmont generally knows that (though if Aurvandil and Madina would lay off it and come help, and if the Lurias would stay out, we'd have a real chance). But Hireshmont and Brance have pushed each other into very uncomfortable positions.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Telrunya on October 31, 2011, 07:20:57 PM
Bad Hireshmont! Don't poke the big guy! Silly Federations! How two Realms that pretty much agree on borders still manage to irritate each other that much over the issue, I do not know! :P
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Galvez on October 31, 2011, 08:01:46 PM
Campers beware: Avoid the bear.
Who is saying that Hireshmont is a camper. I see him more like a hunter. And he is looking for a new trophy on the wall.

Bad Hireshmont! Don't poke the big guy! Silly Federations! How two Realms that pretty much agree on borders still manage to irritate each other that much over the issue, I do not know! :P
Probably the same way as Julius and Vallyn can. When you are both defending different interests it might seem as irritating each other for the neutral observer.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on October 31, 2011, 08:46:42 PM
Who is saying that Hireshmont is a camper. I see him more like a hunter. And he is looking for a new trophy on the wall.

I fail to see how anything good can come of this from Terran's perspective. What on earth could Terran stand to gain in this situation through conflict, military or political? They've somehow managed over the course of a few days to badly damage Terran's relations with the Theocracies, which is really saying something... Terran had a fair amount of goodwill built up with us.

Probably the same way as Julius and Vallyn can. When you are both defending different interests it might seem as irritating each other for the neutral observer.

Too much posturing, not enough conciliating. We started off with a chip on our shoulder. Terran decided to take a tough line with us right off the bat. Predictably, things went downhill from there.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: JPierreD on October 31, 2011, 09:22:25 PM
It might be a coincidence, but what neighbor did the Theocracies ever had to maintain reasonable non-vassal relations with them?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on October 31, 2011, 09:48:04 PM
It might be a coincidence, but what neighbor did the Theocracies ever had to maintain reasonable non-vassal relations with them?

We got along fine with Caerwyn for years. We would still be getting along fine with them if they hadn't decided to stab us in the back. Same with Averoth actually. After a rocky start we were perfectly content to leave them alone until they decided to start meddling in our affairs
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on November 01, 2011, 01:21:41 AM
The only realm that was ever in a vassal relationship to another SA realm was Aquilegia. And I believe that was only after a rebellion lead by carpet-bagger nobles. (I'm not 100% clear on that, I was already gone from Morek when it happened.) Other than that, I don't think we've ever tried to enthrall any realm.

There have been realms that have been hemmed in by SA-following realms, such as RE and LE, and even Averoth. But none of those were held in vassalage to SA. They were mostly ignored until they decided to grab the pokey sticks.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on November 01, 2011, 01:23:41 AM
Neither is Terran.
Funny how three realms con't come to a simple border treaty, despite the fact that none of them claim to be asking for anything at all, and just keep pissing each other off. ::)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: vonGenf on November 01, 2011, 09:26:50 AM
The only realm that was ever in a vassal relationship to another SA realm was Aquilegia. And I believe that was only after a rebellion lead by carpet-bagger nobles. (I'm not 100% clear on that, I was already gone from Morek when it happened.) Other than that, I don't think we've ever tried to enthrall any realm.

Aquilegia was founded by Morek colonists. Rebels eventually took power, Xinhai didn't like that. There was a war, and it was eventually settled for vassal relationship instead of complete destruction.

This didn't work out too well.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on November 01, 2011, 01:45:52 PM
Aquilegia was founded by Morek colonists. Rebels eventually took power, Xinhai didn't like that. There was a war, and it was eventually settled for vassal relationship instead of complete destruction.

This didn't work out too well.

Mainly because that eventually came into power had no life and made so many multi's that he had at least half the nobles of the entire realm of Aquilegia.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: vonGenf on November 01, 2011, 01:56:07 PM
Mainly because that eventually came into power had no life and made so many multi's that he had at least half the nobles of the entire realm of Aquilegia.

Didn't that occur before the war ended?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on November 01, 2011, 02:37:29 PM
It happened during the war, but the revelation of it, and the resulting disappearance of 20+ nobles, finally killed the realm.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on November 01, 2011, 11:17:18 PM
I fail to see how anything good can come of this from Terran's perspective. What on earth could Terran stand to gain in this situation through conflict, military or political? They've somehow managed over the course of a few days to badly damage Terran's relations with the Theocracies, which is really saying something... Terran had a fair amount of goodwill built up with us.

That's a modern speaking.

You assume "Terran" has a perspective. It doesn't. Numerous Terran nobles have perspectives. As it would happen, one of them is a former duke who built a large power base for himself, slowly building up a reputation for competent domestic management, and deft handling of issues, foreign and domestic. If Hireshmont doesn't get what he wants in this affair, it'll be the first time he's ever lost: at anything, ever. He isn't used to losing.

Plus, there's a huge culture gap. For Hireshmont, not commenting on the exact details of a treaty is pure animalistic barbarism. As far as he concerned, we are separated from the monsters by our ability to write complex legal documents. Thus, Brance's arguments are pissing him off.... because Hireshmont has always argued in Terran for friendly ties with Astroist and a very moderate stance towards Astroism, based on the fact that they were decent, civilized realms, sharing the goal of pacifying the wilds... but this conflict is causing an existential crisis for Hireshmont as he wonders if Astroists are actually humans, because they seem incapable of negotiating a treaty, which means, obviously, they're not actually humans.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: dustole on November 02, 2011, 01:06:19 AM
I really like that Allison can sit back and not get involved in this Astrum/Terran conflict.  Its gotta be earning me some points with Astrum.  Plus this gives me someone in the area to not like.  I was worried that the only realm I would have to pick a fight with would be D'hara...  now I have a reason to pester Terran sometime in the future.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Adriddae on November 02, 2011, 01:07:46 AM
I wonder whats up with Allison. I haven't heard anything about her in weeks! Whats going on!?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on November 02, 2011, 01:09:01 AM
Plus this gives me someone in the area to not like.
You're welcome.  ;D
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: dustole on November 02, 2011, 02:14:00 AM
I wonder whats up with Allison. I haven't heard anything about her in weeks! Whats going on!?


Organizing a new realm is harder than I thought it would be.  Not having a way to message "everyone" loyal to me is hard.  I have to keep track of what everyone is doing and they tend to blend in with the nobles of Astrum.  Finding food to make sure Golden Farrow stayed fed until we could get some rurals was tough too.  The short version is that I don't have time to cause trouble because I am too busy with other stuff.  Plus I'm being deliberately "good" while a guest in Astrum.  They took the brunt of my meddling when I helped persuade Caerwyn to attack them and then they let me move there and take over Golden Farrow.  Allison can't always be a bitch.  She's gotta be good from time to time to balance out all the crazy ass [email protected]#$ she does.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on November 02, 2011, 03:40:40 AM
If Hireshmont doesn't get what he wants in this affair, it'll be the first time he's ever lost: at anything, ever. He isn't used to losing.
Meh, everyone has to lose every now and then.

Quote
Plus, there's a huge culture gap.
Oh, definitely.

Quote
For Hireshmont, not commenting on the exact details of a treaty is pure animalistic barbarism.
But as Brance demonstrated, Hireshmont never actually proposed a treaty. He stated the goals he would like achieve during the treaty negotiation. i.e. "We would like to come up with a treaty that covers the following points", not "We would like to propose the following treaty". A subtle, perhaps, but substantial difference. Even the wording of the points provided was completely unlike anything I've ever seen in a treaty, and bore no resemblance at all to the treaty Terran signed with Asylon.  Then when Hireshmont actually did send it as a true proposal, the first sentence of his message was "You lie.", and then he continued to attempt to embarrass and insult Brance. At that point, Brance had no intention of even discussing the matter with the rude Terrans.

Quote
As far as he concerned, we are separated from the monsters by our ability to write complex legal documents. Thus, Brance's arguments are pissing him off.... because Hireshmont has always argued in Terran for friendly ties with Astroist and a very moderate stance towards Astroism, based on the fact that they were decent, civilized realms, sharing the goal of pacifying the wilds... but this conflict is causing an existential crisis for Hireshmont as he wonders if Astroists are actually humans, because they seem incapable of negotiating a treaty, which means, obviously, they're not actually humans.
Brance is mad at Hireshmont because, from Brance's viewpoint, Terran stuck its nose in where it didn't belong, claiming lands it had no business claiming, and declaring that the whole thing was "a done deal, and please kindly refrain from taking our land, thankyouverymuch!" Then when "negotiations" started, Terran approached with a proposal where, essentially, everything in it was non-negotiable, and refused Brance's request that all the disputed territories remained untaken, whereas Hireshmont declared that Terran would take one region, and Astrum would take none. There was, literally, no room at all in the agreement for which Brance could negotiate.

From there, it only got worse and worse. I'm pretty sure that everything Brance and Hireshmont said to each other pissed the other one off. The whole thing was quite interesting. I'm sure that at some time in the future, this whole mess will come back and haunt everyone.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Zakilevo on November 02, 2011, 04:04:17 AM
I think those letters from Terran is pissing off everyone in the realm council of Astrum. No one is defending Terran on that. Terran will have to get their lands by force.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: JPierreD on November 02, 2011, 04:48:39 AM
I'm sure that at some time in the future, this whole mess will come back and haunt everyone.

Then better Terran starts burning Farrowfield and Golden Farrow before it becomes a threat.  8)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Zakilevo on November 02, 2011, 04:53:00 AM
LOL who is burning who? I think you got the two mixed up :)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Perth on November 02, 2011, 04:53:07 AM
Brance is mad at Hireshmont because, from Brance's viewpoint, Terran stuck its nose in where it didn't belong, claiming lands it had no business claiming, and declaring that the whole thing was "a done deal, and please kindly refrain from taking our land, thankyouverymuch!" Then when "negotiations" started, Terran approached with a proposal where, essentially, everything in it was non-negotiable, and refused Brance's request that all the disputed territories remained untaken, whereas Hireshmont declared that Terran would take one region, and Astrum would take none. There was, literally, no room at all in the agreement for which Brance could negotiate.

This is so interesting because this is pretty much exactly how the whole Terran Senate feel's about Astrum on this issue. They see Astrum as stranger to the area, a much stronger one, who has come and "stuck its nose in where it didn't belong, claiming lands it had no business claiming" and because everyone in Terran knows Astrum is much stronger there is a very gut-wrenching feeling that Astrum is trying to threaten and bully Terran. And now, since it seems Brance simply refuses to even talk about the actual negotiations of land claims, the Senate feels as if Brance is trying to humiliate their Chief Magistrate and purposefully damage Terran's reputation, no doubt as an excuse to yet bully Terran even more.

Furthermore, Kale (one of Terran's oldest members and the de-facto leader of the northern parts of Terran) feels as if an attack by the murderous barbarian hordes of the north is imminent and is stressing about it.


This has all been a very entertaining and interesting issue to watch.  ;D



Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on November 02, 2011, 04:54:10 AM
@Zakilevo: Ditto to you.

Everyone in Astroism thinks Terran is being rude.

Everyone among Terran's allies thinks Brance is being rude.

@Indirik:
The idea that Hireshmont didn't propose a treaty is just silly. If he had written up a formal document that said the same thing, he'd be lambasted as not giving Astrum a chance to contribute to it as well. And besides: it's not like Brance ever proposed anything. And it's now been a few days since Hireshmont did propose a formal treaty. Quite a simple one. Mostly using small words. Covering only very specific issues. Recognizing the regions Astrum claimed before this fiasco.

Moreover, you did negotiate on these points, so I'm not sure how you think there was no room for negotiation when, clearly, negotiate is exactly what you did. Terran set four conditions for an agreement. The colony rejected at least one of them. Terran is still actively seeking an agreement. How peculiar.

You can phrase it as Terran taking one and Astrum taking none. Or you can phrase it as Terran abstaining from 1 and Astrum abstaining from 1. Terran could have taken Faithhill and Lavendrow (we had 2 separate armies available on hand for deployment), but obviously forbears now, because we said we wouldn't do that. Caerwyn could not realistically have taken two of the regions by now.

You can't honestly say that one of those perspectives is fundamentally and objectively a more true way of viewing the situation. We pick based on what is politically convenient.

@JPierreD: Terran will not start a war as long as Hireshmont governs. Just not gonna' happen.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Phellan on November 02, 2011, 05:05:54 AM
Ooo

I can't wait till Terran, D'Hara, and Barca go fighting up north to leave Madina alone with Aurvandil.

Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Perth on November 02, 2011, 05:20:26 AM
Ooo

I can't wait till Terran, D'Hara, and Barca go fighting up north to leave Madina alone with Aurvandil.

If war did come, I do not think we'de be doing much "going up north" as much as "defending down south."  :(
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Galvez on November 02, 2011, 07:39:02 AM
@JPierreD: Terran will not start a war as long as Hireshmont governs. Just not gonna' happen.
You want to get rid of Allison as well.

Ooo

I can't wait till Terran, D'Hara, and Barca go fighting up north to leave Madina alone with Aurvandil.
We are already leaving you alone with Aurvandil. 'Moot armies going north wouldn't change anything about the situation in the south.

If war did come, I do not think we'de be doing much "going up north" as much as "defending down south."  :(
We involve Asylon as well.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Carna on November 02, 2011, 08:16:17 AM
Well yeah, presumably Terran's treaty with Asylon is the reason that Terran won't be iniating any open hostilities. A D'Haran infiltrator here or there...

And c'mon, who doesn't want rid of Allison? She's psychotic. I say that as a compliment. Sort of. If Barca was sitting next to Golden Farrow (y'know, rather than next to the Zuma), I think Julius might want rid of Allison too. Not exactly a stable border Terran can rely on.

It won't come to war though. The north would probably crush the Federation, but just as much the new colony would have far more difficulty kicking off. I may be wrong, but I suspect the outcome of this will simply be a tense border between one side and the other and a dip in real relations. Ideally, things will settle down so more lands can be colonized thanks to the new estate system before we agree that the north can have Askilion and everything above that and the southwest can have Giask and Shinnen duchies. It makes sense. No one genuinely likes the Lurians anyway.

:)

Finn.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on November 02, 2011, 02:00:06 PM
This is so interesting because this is pretty much exactly how the whole Terran Senate feel's about Astrum on this issue.
No doubt. I would too, if I were Terran. And Brance understands that. Which is why Hireshmont's seemingly deliberate hostility and provocation is so frustrating.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on November 02, 2011, 02:03:56 PM
Terran will have to get their lands by force.
Doubtful. Brance has already told Hireshmont that the claims are a trivial matter, over which he had no real objection. (Or something to that effect, I forget the exact words.) Brance has been objecting to the process that Terran has taken, and Hireshmont's seeming unwillingness to cooperate. Plus the fact that Hireshmont repeatedly delivers insults in almost every message he sends.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on November 02, 2011, 02:13:51 PM
The idea that Hireshmont didn't propose a treaty is just silly.
But, oddly enough, that's exactly how I read it. The language used in the "terms" was completely unlike anything I've ever seen from a treaty, and completely unlike the treaty that Asylon and Terran had just signed. Plus I expected a much longer process. The fact that Hireshmont would have come out of proposed a complete treaty in a first message just seemed ... wrong.

Quote
If he had written up a formal document that said the same thing, he'd be lambasted as not giving Astrum a chance to contribute to it as well.


Quote
And besides: it's not like Brance ever proposed anything.
Brance hasn't ever gotten to the point of actual negotiations on the treaty. And now he probably won't. "You're lying. Now sign this treaty!" isn't something he is likely to respond to favorably.

Quote
We pick based on what is politically convenient.
Of course we do.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Adriddae on November 02, 2011, 04:09:07 PM

And c'mon, who doesn't want rid of Allison? She's psychotic. I say that as a compliment. Sort of. If Barca was sitting next to Golden Farrow (y'know, rather than next to the Zuma), I think Julius might want rid of Allison too. Not exactly a stable border Terran can rely on.


You'd be surprised by how many people would want to keep Allison. I think this is because she gets things done. Or at least people think she gets things done. If she has a goal, she would do anything to get it. Luckily, her goals usually revolve around expanding Sanguis Astroism's influence.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Carna on November 02, 2011, 04:12:35 PM
Hehe, yeah, I was talking south of the divide, so to speak. I do get the appeal of Allison. Charismatic leader who doesn't just sit around. Dwilight's good for that, especially by comparison of elsewhere. Jenred in FEI being an exception.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Bedwyr on November 02, 2011, 07:58:32 PM
Hehe, yeah, I was talking south of the divide, so to speak. I do get the appeal of Allison. Charismatic leader who doesn't just sit around. Dwilight's good for that, especially by comparison of elsewhere. Jenred in FEI being an exception.

Can I state again how much I love Jenred being used as an example, especially for something like this?  Makes my day.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Ramiel on November 02, 2011, 11:34:27 PM
Pfft, Luria is better than the rest of the continent - far more fun!
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Carna on November 03, 2011, 06:11:26 AM
Pfft, Luria is better than the rest of the continent - far more fun!

If rebelling is your cup of tea, I suppose you're right.  ::)

Me? I think the southwest is far more interesting. I'd go into why, but all you really need to do is read a topic or two in here and it should become clear. Fun.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on November 03, 2011, 06:16:47 AM
If rebelling is your cup of tea, I suppose you're right.  ::)

Me? I think the southwest is far more interesting. I'd go into why, but all you really need to do is read a topic or two in here and it should become clear. Fun.

There is more then just rebelling, there is DEFENDING AGAINST REBELLIONS as well. Actually the threat of rebellion is mostly a Luria Nova thing now, Pian En Luries is far to busy laying the ground work for more realms.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on November 03, 2011, 06:59:49 PM
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: vonGenf on November 03, 2011, 07:34:52 PM
Allison as more of a moderate, reasonable bureaucratic-sort.

You owe me a new keyboard.  ;D
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on November 03, 2011, 08:47:35 PM
Oh, I know how preposterous that characterization is, OOC. But Hireshmont has no idea.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on November 03, 2011, 09:12:20 PM
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on November 04, 2011, 12:41:14 AM
No, it's not that the Maddening is being moderated that's having this effect, but that she's gone so far into insanity that no words or actions could properly act out what she is thinking.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on November 04, 2011, 01:52:29 AM
No, it's not that the Maddening is being moderated that's having this effect, but that she's gone so far into insanity that no words or actions could properly act out what she is thinking.

Here I was thinking that she simply has become so crazy that she has passed right through the insane spectrum into something resembling normal.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on November 04, 2011, 02:08:20 AM
It does kind of seem that way.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: dustole on November 04, 2011, 05:38:18 AM
Ugh,  It is taking a lot of work getting this realm all pulled together.  It is amazing how much time it takes just to get all the food purchased.  I need to get some more rural regions.  :D   

I have some crazy plans, but right now they are more mid to long term.  I have some semi nefarious plans for SA and the Regency and Elderships of the church.  But in the short term it is taking a lot of time build a realm from the ground up.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Carna on November 04, 2011, 06:34:07 AM
I get that. Standing on Rettleville's walls looking out at a couple of monster hordes and thinking that it'd be really nice if Terran could show up with some food and/or troops right about now. Doubt its quite the same in GF, but we're also still in the stage of getting constitutions and laws and stuff done. Identity.

I like that the nefarious plans are for SA rather than the Moot. Not like there's anything yet to stop SA spread along the southwest. The southeast, on the other hand, are massively against you guys. Just sayin'...
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: JPierreD on November 04, 2011, 07:44:54 AM
The southeast, on the other hand, are massively against you guys. Just sayin'...

Against you too. Just sayin'...  ;)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Galvez on November 04, 2011, 10:16:49 AM
The Lurians are much like the SA theocracies. Just ignore them and soon enough they will fight among themselves.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Shenron on November 04, 2011, 10:38:07 AM
The Lurians are much like the SA theocracies. Just ignore them and soon enough they will fight among themselves.

Problem is they might not ignore you  :P
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Adriddae on November 04, 2011, 04:21:33 PM
Problem is they might not ignore you  :P

Who, the Luries or the Astriosts?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Galvez on November 04, 2011, 04:59:48 PM
Perhaps both...
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Shenron on November 04, 2011, 05:24:31 PM
Perhaps both...

Spot on!  ;D Basically anybody (please pardon my vulgarity) with a big enough dick to [email protected]#$ you.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Adriddae on November 04, 2011, 05:59:02 PM
But... Who have the Luries fought that hasn't been themselves?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Carna on November 04, 2011, 06:01:02 PM
The Grand Duchy. Great achievements there, as anyone who can read a map knows.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Shenron on November 04, 2011, 07:06:57 PM
The Grand Duchy. Great achievements there, as anyone who can read a map knows.

Hey don't encourage them :P
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Adriddae on November 04, 2011, 08:04:07 PM
The Grand Duchy. Great achievements there, as anyone who can read a map knows.

I thought it was the other way around. Fissoa intervened when the Luries had their civil war.  :P
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on November 05, 2011, 12:35:20 AM
Here I was thinking that she simply has become so crazy that she has passed right through the insane spectrum into something resembling normal.

Having dealt with Allison IC for quite a long time, I can say that she goes through periods of lucidity and responsible behavior every now and then. I remember a moment when Rowan decided to suddenly start agitating against the amount of influence the eastern realms had in the SA heirarchy after a rogue Elder kicked Vasilif Ysgarren and several other rather prestigious Astrumite nobles out of the Warders guild. Uncharacteristically, Allison was the voice of reason. It was like we swapped roles for a few days...

Typically this only happens when Allison has independent authority. She gets a lot more dangerous when she doesn't have any responsibilities to hold her back. I will be *very* interested to see how she evolves as the ruler of a nascent realm.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Zakilevo on November 05, 2011, 12:54:54 AM
Maybe once the dev team add schism, we can split into the western SA and eastern SA :D
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on November 05, 2011, 01:11:45 AM
Maybe once the dev team add schism, we can split into the western SA and eastern SA :D

It's almost happened more than once you know, schism mechanics or no. Brance considered it. So did Rowan.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Zakilevo on November 05, 2011, 01:17:39 AM
It might happen one day if the other side push things too TOO FAR.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on November 05, 2011, 02:28:28 AM
Maybe once we hit one million followers, we will celebrate by splitting into three separate faiths. By then each of the splinter faiths will still be bigger than any non-SA denomination.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Zakilevo on November 05, 2011, 03:57:06 AM
each faith can follow one of the three stars :D
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Galvez on November 07, 2011, 11:32:27 PM
Turin Erickson, King in Exile of Iashalur, Duke of Gaston???
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Perth on November 07, 2011, 11:50:41 PM
Turin Erickson, King in Exile of Iashalur, Duke of Gaston???

What's going on!!!
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Zakilevo on November 08, 2011, 01:29:16 AM
A NEW THEOCRACY! THAT IS WHAT IS GOING ON!
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on November 08, 2011, 01:40:09 AM
The fruition of a *very* long held plan.

The secession of Gaston has been planned for ages, almost since the fall of Niselur a couple years ago. Not too long after that, I had a neat idea. The Niselurians were all talking about going into exile and re-founding their realm some day, so I offered them a means to do that. Come to Astrum, I said, and found your realm in Gaston. You can build up your infrastructure and populations under our protection, then secede when you are ready. Then after that you can with our help work your way back to Darfix. This seemed much more doable than trying to recolonize a totally devastated Darfix in the midst of hordes of rampaging monsters, far from any human support.

We got a lot in return. The Exiles have been serving as knights and lords in Astrum for probably close to two years IRL, which has been a huge help to us. It took a long time to build up Gaston, and the war with Caerwyn and Averoth set us back immensely when it broke out, but the New Estate system helped a lot with reclaiming it (and more) and fortunately most of the regions we lost to monsters during the war still had good population density when we took them back.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Zakilevo on November 08, 2011, 02:39:48 AM
Except Chrysantalys. The city has no people left and turned into a breeding ground.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Lefanis on November 08, 2011, 03:14:28 AM
Maybe once we hit one million followers, we will celebrate by splitting into three separate faiths. By then each of the splinter faiths will still be bigger than any non-SA denomination.

Darfix alone would double the peasants under the SA banner  :)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: dustole on November 08, 2011, 04:10:15 AM
Darfix alone would double the peasants under the SA banner  :)

not really.  SA has 750,000+ followers as it is now.  After Golden Farrow and the surrounding area gets temples and followers we will be around 850k.  Maybe even more.  Darfix is good for another 150-200k but ittt would not double SA.  Not even close.  Even still, Darfix would bring  a huge chunk of peasant followers to the church
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Lefanis on November 08, 2011, 04:54:44 AM
not really.  SA has 750,000+ followers as it is now.  After Golden Farrow and the surrounding area gets temples and followers we will be around 850k.  Maybe even more.  Darfix is good for another 150-200k but ittt would not double SA.  Not even close.  Even still, Darfix would bring  a huge chunk of peasant followers to the church

I know. However, as an Iashalurian, i am allowed to exxagerate about the spelendour of what my realm will be.   ;D
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Zakilevo on November 08, 2011, 05:26:14 AM
You might never even reach the full potential of the city. That city will eat a lot and I doubt you can feed it during winter.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: JPierreD on November 08, 2011, 06:48:11 AM
not really.  SA has 750,000+ followers as it is now.  After Golden Farrow and the surrounding area gets temples and followers we will be around 850k.  Maybe even more.  Darfix is good for another 150-200k but ittt would not double SA.  Not even close.  Even still, Darfix would bring  a huge chunk of peasant followers to the church

150.600
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: BardicNerd on November 08, 2011, 07:47:32 AM
Even if the city actually reaches that size, getting all of them to follow SA will be quite a challenge.  We've been working on Springdale (currently the largest center of the faith) for years, and haven't ever managed to get 100% conversion . . . the city is currently about 75k people, with 4 shrines and a level 11 temple (which can provide for 71k followers), and despite pretty constant preaching, there's been very little progress for a few months.  Maybe 3k in three months or so.  In the last week it's been staying about at 52k, every time I get more it seems to go back down the next day.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on November 08, 2011, 11:15:45 AM
Even if the city actually reaches that size, getting all of them to follow SA will be quite a challenge.  We've been working on Springdale (currently the largest center of the faith) for years, and haven't ever managed to get 100% conversion . . . the city is currently about 75k people, with 4 shrines and a level 11 temple (which can provide for 71k followers), and despite pretty constant preaching, there's been very little progress for a few months.  Maybe 3k in three months or so.  In the last week it's been staying about at 52k, every time I get more it seems to go back down the next day.

I can't seem to find the thread right now, but my understanding was the way Tom coded things cities are harder to convert, or more accurately the larger the population the harder it is for 100% conversions. As I recall this is to reflect that the larger the gathering of people the more "cosmopolitan" they are and the more likely that many conflicting and minor cults and philosophies will exists. I think it was the same thread were we were debating if building temples actually made it harder to convert populations.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on November 08, 2011, 03:39:01 PM
That city will eat a lot and I doubt you can feed it during winter.

It's surrounded by rurals for miles and miles in every direction you can go, with no other nearby cities.

If all those rurals can be taken, the realm holding Darfix should be self-sufficient.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on November 08, 2011, 03:45:45 PM
It better be. It's not like anyone else can afford to feed it if it can't feed itself.

I haven't bothered to actually count up all the numbers of the regions around it, but I don't have any reason to suspect Vellos is not correct. As always, though, the key will be to keep the monsters down.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on November 08, 2011, 07:53:33 PM
Hey, if you actually take and hold all those rurals, you will. That's no easy task though...
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on November 22, 2011, 04:22:30 AM
well well, I didn't realize I was this popular. I seem to be getting a large amount of support for the position of consul.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: dustole on November 23, 2011, 01:04:40 AM
It does help that you have a few people behind the scenes working for you.      ;)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Creed on November 23, 2011, 02:14:48 AM
I planned on running myself until I got thrown out of SA :( but its ok I got some things in the works that is going to be interesting for the church.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chenier on November 23, 2011, 02:18:31 AM
I planned on running myself until I got thrown out of SA :( but its ok I got some things in the works that is going to be interesting for the church.

The conversion of Luria Nova?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Creed on November 23, 2011, 02:29:44 AM
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chenier on November 23, 2011, 02:32:08 AM
Oh no something much bigger then that.

The conversion of Luria Nova AND Madina? And the Zuma too?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Creed on November 23, 2011, 02:35:14 AM
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Meneldur on November 23, 2011, 02:38:56 AM
Oh no something much bigger then that.

Sounds interesting- I'm guessing it will be related to Creed's rather "heretical" beliefs?

I do hope so, with Constantine soon to be out of the Elders for the first time in years a good theological controversy which he feels strongly about will be a fun way of making up for the usual Elder bickering  :)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: JPierreD on November 23, 2011, 02:48:38 AM
Lol no nothing to do with conversion of any realms or the Zuma. I want that in the future but not now.

Speaking of the Zuma can they be killed or does no one know?

Can their regions be RTO'ed?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chenier on November 23, 2011, 03:01:34 AM
Can their regions be RTO'ed?

You should totally try. If the daimon is militia, they'll join you and defend you from the other Zuma!

 8)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on November 23, 2011, 03:25:38 AM
It does help that you have a few people behind the scenes working for you.      ;)

Yes, that too.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: egamma on November 23, 2011, 06:30:49 PM
Can their regions be RTO'ed?

Not with the Zuma forces present--and they have sufficient forces to prevent any such attempt, not to mention that they would probably destroy you for simply converting the peasants in the first place.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chenier on November 23, 2011, 07:57:27 PM
Not with the Zuma forces present--and they have sufficient forces to prevent any such attempt, not to mention that they would probably destroy you for simply converting the peasants in the first place.

Depends on how many of these troops are mobile and how many are militia.

I also have no idea if the code considers CS or number of men.

They also is, however I believe, special code for Netherworld regions.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Telrunya on November 23, 2011, 08:20:52 PM
Trust me, they have quite some mobile forces around :P
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on November 23, 2011, 09:32:13 PM
Trust me, they have quite some mobile forces around :P

Yes, yes they do. My ballpark based on their movements suggests 10k-ish mobile on a regular basis.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: egamma on November 24, 2011, 04:26:37 AM
They keep at least 10K in every reason--more than enough to put down the 300 peasants that each region has.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on November 24, 2011, 04:54:39 AM
They keep at least 10K in every reason--more than enough to put down the 300 peasants that each region has.

10k mobile, or 10k militia? I was just counting mobile.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on November 24, 2011, 05:11:29 AM
Interesting, it was a while ago that I last travelled through Zuma Territory, back before D'Hara had a Prime Minister, but back then they certainly didn't keep a force in every region, let alone 10k.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vaylon Kenadell on November 24, 2011, 10:08:46 AM
I have seen things. Things that would make you not even joke about invading Zuma lands if you knew what I knew.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Ramiel on November 24, 2011, 11:40:25 AM
I have seen things. Things that would make you not even joke about invading Zuma lands if you knew what I knew.

you make them sound like creepy stalkers :D
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on November 24, 2011, 03:44:19 PM
All this talk about invading the Zuma is largely a moot point anyway (no pun intended). They exist for a reason. I doubt that reason is to be a punching bag. In much the same way that Tom made it effectively impossible to take back Jobo's Mouth from the daimons at the end of the Third Invasion on BT, I have a feeling that, in the unlikely event that it looked like the players might actually have a shot at taking down the Zuma, Tom would intervene and prevent it. Not overtly maybe, but let's just say that I doubt we'd ever see the bottom of their reinforcement pool...
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Creed on November 24, 2011, 04:38:19 PM
All this talk about invading the Zuma is largely a moot point anyway (no pun intended). They exist for a reason. I doubt that reason is to be a punching bag. In much the same way that Tom made it effectively impossible to take back Jobo's Mouth from the daimons at the end of the Third Invasion on BT, I have a feeling that, in the unlikely event that it looked like the players might actually have a shot at taking down the Zuma, Tom would intervene and prevent it. Not overtly maybe, but let's just say that I doubt we'd ever see the bottom of their reinforcement pool...

No if Tom did that would be lame. Maybe have them driven out of their lands and tom can make like a little island for them to be driven back to but to make it impossible to destroy them would make the whole game just dumb. Everything realm, and people and Zuma should be able to be conquered. Can he make it extremely hard yes but not impossible but we will never know until a Bloc of realms gather the courage to try a war with the Zuma and hey if all those realms get destroyed just would open new space to place new realms and we can have fun with that. 
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on November 24, 2011, 05:54:28 PM
No if Tom did that would be lame. Maybe have them driven out of their lands and tom can make like a little island for them to be driven back to but to make it impossible to destroy them would make the whole game just dumb. Everything realm, and people and Zuma should be able to be conquered. Can he make it extremely hard yes but not impossible but we will never know until a Bloc of realms gather the courage to try a war with the Zuma and hey if all those realms get destroyed just would open new space to place new realms and we can have fun with that.

You obviously don't know Tom. And haven't played on Beluaterra enough.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Zakilevo on November 24, 2011, 07:03:21 PM
Why fight a meat grinder?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Creed on November 24, 2011, 07:59:57 PM
You obviously don't know Tom. And haven't played on Beluaterra enough.

I quit Beluaterra a long time ago it was dumb you could do nothing monsters just were to powerful and every time after an invasion realms where to busy rebuilding to be able to attack each other.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on November 24, 2011, 10:01:38 PM
I quit Beluaterra a long time ago it was dumb you could do nothing monsters just were to powerful and every time after an invasion realms where to busy rebuilding to be able to attack each other.

Hah.

There's your problem then.

You don't understand the magnitude of the issue.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Zakilevo on November 24, 2011, 10:03:47 PM
I think the whole point of the invasion was making people work together.

But sadly, that is when human nature kicks in and people fight each other even more.

People can never work together even during a crisis.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vaylon Kenadell on November 25, 2011, 01:15:03 AM
I think the whole point of the invasion was making people work together.

But sadly, that is when the human nature kicks in and people fight each other even more.

People can never work together even during a crisis.

Kinda makes you wonder, eh? Who's the real demon?  ::)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chenier on November 25, 2011, 01:53:04 AM
Kinda makes you wonder, eh? Who's the real demon?  ::)

Delvin Anaris, of course.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on November 25, 2011, 03:09:57 AM
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on November 25, 2011, 07:03:49 AM
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on December 21, 2011, 07:27:31 PM
So...

How 'bout them Zuma, eh? I'm very curious to see how SA and the theocratic governments react to this most recent development. An SA crusade against the Zuma would be hilarious.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Zakilevo on December 21, 2011, 07:36:12 PM
not happening. We are leaning toward ignoring Garret. We already know Garret holds no power in Zuma. He is all talk :P
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on December 21, 2011, 07:39:02 PM
The Zuma will have to give us a better reason than what we've seen. So far all we have seen is Garret mouthing off in a ridiculously transparent attempt to goad SA/Zuma into a war so he can get personal revenge on SA for casting him out as a heretic. Brance refuses to have any dealings with Garret. If the Zuma want to talk, they will have to send a different ambassador.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Darksun on December 21, 2011, 07:39:21 PM
not happening. We are leaning toward ignoring Garret. We already know Garret holds no power in Zuma. He is all talk :P

That and he is seen as a heretic by the Church. Not to be trusted.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on December 21, 2011, 07:42:54 PM
We already know Garret holds no power in Zuma.
I hadn't heard anyone claim that. It is pretty clear, though, that Garret is attempting to use the Zuma as leverage in a personal vendetta. Brance will tick by his principles and refuse to deal with the heretic. He could be way off base with this though. If it turns out that he really does speak for the Zuma on this, at least the part about Turin, then things could get very interesting.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: vanKaya on December 21, 2011, 08:58:42 PM
I dont think its wise to put on the blinders and hope that Garrett is just spewing misinformation. When he speaks for the Zuma unofficially I zone him out, but this seemed quite official.

Take it from Terran, even if the Zuma pretty much KNOW you're innocent, they'll still go in and muck up a region or two. If they know you're guilty.........
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Artemesia on December 21, 2011, 09:31:06 PM
I hadn't heard anyone claim that. It is pretty clear, though, that Garret is attempting to use the Zuma as leverage in a personal vendetta. Brance will tick by his principles and refuse to deal with the heretic. He could be way off base with this though. If it turns out that he really does speak for the Zuma on this, at least the part about Turin, then things could get very interesting.

lol buddy, don't flatter yourself, kay. I'll proclaim this officially in this OOC forum where even the GM can verify: I, neither as a player, nor Garret as a character (Even though technically you can't really know ICly anyway), have no grudge against Sanguis Astroism or anyone involved. In fact, personally I'd prefer the Church not get involved. Too much paperwork for no gain.

So Indirik, give it a rest. Not everyone has such a long-lasting memory, or cares so deeply about things that happen in this game to warrant having some "vendetta". Anaris can also testify as to my lack of long-term memory. I already forgot who exactly matters in SA anyway.

But in short: Indirik, I am a jerk sometimes. You can also be one. Don't let the fact that I am a jerk give you justification for being one yourself.

Take it easy now, old timer.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Zakilevo on December 21, 2011, 09:38:26 PM
lol buddy, don't flatter yourself, kay. I'll proclaim this officially in this OOC forum where even the GM can verify: I, neither as a player, nor Garret as a character (Even though technically you can't really know ICly anyway), have no grudge against Sanguis Astroism or anyone involved. In fact, personally I'd prefer the Church not get involved. Too much paperwork for no gain.

So Indirik, give it a rest. Not everyone has such a long-lasting memory, or cares so deeply about things that happen in this game to warrant having some "vendetta". Anaris can also testify as to my lack of long-term memory. I already forgot who exactly matters in SA anyway.

But in short: Indirik, I am a jerk sometimes. You can also be one. Don't let the fact that I am a jerk give you justification for being one yourself.

Take it easy now, old timer.

I think people who read your never posting again thread can back your words LOL
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Bedwyr on December 21, 2011, 09:44:07 PM
So...

How 'bout them Zuma, eh? I'm very curious to see how SA and the theocratic governments react to this most recent development. An SA crusade against the Zuma would be hilarious.

(cackles maniacally, and hopes no one discovers his true plan to set SA and the Zuma at odds while making it look like an SA plot to set the Moot and the Zuma at odds)

(also wishes he could really accomplish things like that)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: vonGenf on December 21, 2011, 10:01:40 PM
(cackles maniacally, and hopes no one discovers his true plan to set SA and the Zuma at odds while making it look like an SA plot to set the Moot and the Zuma at odds)

(also wishes he could really accomplish things like that)

You had me for a split second there!
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on December 21, 2011, 10:21:29 PM
Sorry, Artemesia, I forgot to add this to my message:
Quote
Disclaimer: The viewpoints expressed in this message are the IC viewpoints of the character Brance Indirik. Any similarity to the views or opinions of any player or real human being is purely coincidence, with no relations, implied or otherwise, to the players, developers, or groupies of this game, forum, or web site.

Brance does have a long memory. But that's part of what I like about BattleMaster. Actions that you take matter to your character and your family, even years and years later. You forge a history for your character and your family. You don't get the instant equality of a respawn to fall back on. And that's just really cool.

And, really, get real. You sent a message to all rulers on Dwilight that specifically and directly challenged all theocracies of SA to bow before your might, and told everyone not in SA that this didn't apply to them. And then you try and say that you hope that the church doesn't get involved?  ::)

When he speaks for the Zuma unofficially I zone him out, but this seemed quite official.
As soon as Brance challenged Garret, Garret immediately backed off on his entire manifesto, with the exception of some vague claim about Turin. The entire demand went out the window with an "Ooops, sorry, my bad, that was all my personal stuff. Feel free to ignore it all." To my character that hardly seems to indicate that this is an official Zuma proclamation.

But even if it was, who cares? (Again, speaking from my character's IC viewpoint.) These Zuma are nothing to Brance. What have they ever done that's noteworthy? They roflstomped on Barca? Please... It's not like that's exactly a bragworthy accomplishment, is it? And who do the Zuma have fronting for them? The convicted heretic Garret Artemesia, who has been outcast from Sanguis Astroism. Suddenly, out of the blue, the convicted heretic makes proclamations that directly challenge Sanguis Astroism. And we're all just supposed to roll over and go belly-up like D'Hara did?

Quote from: someone in the Veinsormoot
"When the Zuma make demands ... we do what they say and don't ask too many questions."

And yes, that is a real message that my character received IC, deliberately creatively quoted (but only a little), because that's how Brance reads it. And Brance has (as far as he's concerned) the entire might of the richest, most powerful military machine on the entire freakin' continent backing him up. So yeah he is a little cocky. And he has good reason to be. Siege of Storm's Keep, anyone? Siege of Valkyrja? Destruction of Everguard? Destruction of Caerwyn? Defeat of the Raivan Empire?

Brance is going to react in a manner that makes sense for him to act IC, based on what he knows. And what he knows is that Garret is a heretic and a braggart. That's why he flat out refuses to deal with Garret. If the Zuma have something to say to Brance, they can send someone with honor. Someone who can be trusted. Rolling over and giving his belly to the Zuma, who are thousands of miles away, just because of some heretic's unsubstantiated claims? Pfffffft.... That would make no sense at all. (And yes, Brance does have access to quite a bit of information that most people don't, so he knows a good bit more about what's going on that you might think someone in Astrum would know. What can I say? People like to tell him things...)

And note that this is Brance's IC opinion. OOC, as a player, I know that what Brance is doing could all come back and bite him in the ass. Maybe it will turn out that this really is the Zuma's doing, and not just Garret's personal vendetta. And maybe the Zuma will decide to march an army up to Iashalur to check things out for themselves. In which case Brance will probably have to be at the head of the army that meets them on the field. But, hey, even if we get destroyed, we'll have fun doing it.

As a player, I think that what Garret is doing is pretty damn cool. The mouthpiece of the Zuma on Dwilight? Who wouldn't want to do that? And the potential that Garret is using his powers as Zuma ambassador to enact a little personal vengeance against the largest and most powerful religion the game has ever seen? Isn't that what every player would dream about doing? I bet that there's about 200 players that would love to take over Garret's role. If not more.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Artemesia on December 21, 2011, 10:50:54 PM
I find it odd that people would be in the slightest bit envious of my position. It is, for the most part, a thankless, gloryless job. You try your best to do stuff that no one else will ever know about (At least, not by the vast majority of players). You try anything, and there will definitely be misconceptions, regardless of actual character traits.

Yeah, Garret has history with SA. There's already been in-game messages about it. On an OOC forum, specifics are a bit dicey. Have I done similar things? Possibly. So...does that mean you want to stoop to my level if that is the case?

Anyway, I have nothing else to say about this. Good day y'all.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Meneldur on December 21, 2011, 10:51:36 PM
So...

How 'bout them Zuma, eh? I'm very curious to see how SA and the theocratic governments react to this most recent development. An SA crusade against the Zuma would be hilarious.

Well Garret's managed to get half the Elders into "prepare for war" mode so it'll be interesting to see how this turns out. The fact that such lofty demands were made against the Church itself and not just at Allison or Turn means that if the Zuma do march to war against either realm they'll have a crusade on their hands (unless they actually have some very convincing evidence, which I highly doubt).

Of course lets hope it'll all resolve according to peaceful means....
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vaylon Kenadell on December 21, 2011, 10:59:07 PM
Siege of Valkyrja?

I remember that battle (http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Siege_of_Valkyrja). That was quite a sight. But where does Brance's confidence come from in relation to those battles, given what he knows about the Zuma?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on December 22, 2011, 02:50:54 AM
But where does Brance's confidence come from in relation to those battles, given what he knows about the Zuma?
Well that's part of the idea: Brance doesn't know much about the Zuma. And, really, who does know much about the Zuma? Not very many people on Dwilight have ever fought against them. We've all probably seen the occasional huge battle report. But those are doubtless just wild stories the bards tell, right? But who has actually even seen a dwilight daimon, let alone faced them in battle?

So why should he be afraid of them? They haven't done anything very impressive. But Brance has been part of what is probably the two largest fortress sieges that Dwilight has ever seen, on the winning side. His side has been victorious in every war they've taken part in. So, why should he expect the Zuma to be any different?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on December 22, 2011, 03:20:55 AM
(cackles maniacally, and hopes no one discovers his true plan to set SA and the Zuma at odds while making it look like an SA plot to set the Moot and the Zuma at odds)

(also wishes he could really accomplish things like that)

Is it bad that this was one of the main theories before Garret just whipped this whole surprise out?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Perth on December 22, 2011, 04:08:38 AM
But who has actually even seen a dwilight daimon, let alone faced them in battle?

Most of Terran and Barca.

And probably many in D'Hara.

Daimons have literally sat on our borders for years.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on December 22, 2011, 04:16:04 AM
Most of Terran and Barca.

And probably many in D'Hara.

Daimons have literally sat on our borders for years.

My Lurian character watched them march on Terran back in the days of the Dragon Queen. If that situation was anything to go by, then very few people have opposed them with a force substantial enough to draw conclusions from.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on December 22, 2011, 04:21:33 AM
Well that's part of the idea: Brance doesn't know much about the Zuma. And, really, who does know much about the Zuma? Not very many people on Dwilight have ever fought against them. We've all probably seen the occasional huge battle report. But those are doubtless just wild stories the bards tell, right? But who has actually even seen a dwilight daimon, let alone faced them in battle?

So why should he be afraid of them? They haven't done anything very impressive. But Brance has been part of what is probably the two largest fortress sieges that Dwilight has ever seen, on the winning side. His side has been victorious in every war they've taken part in. So, why should he expect the Zuma to be any different?

Hireshmont II has personally fought them, and wandered around their lands on numerous occasions, and held personal meetings with Haktoo in the fiery pits of Volcano Nightscree.

D'Hara, Barca, and Terran have all seen 10k+ armies in their lands at one time or another; most recently we've seen those size armies in 3-4 regions at a time.

Only one person on the continent, to my knowledge, has been personally involved in multiple Zuma crises, fought the Zuma multiple times, and regularly gets a response from Haktoo other than "You have to come to Nightscree to talk to me." His name is Hireshmont, and he just messaged the Astroist rulers offering to answer any questions they may have about the Zuma.

So if Brance has any curiosities, he kind of just got handed the way to fulfill them.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on December 22, 2011, 04:31:25 AM
So if Brance has any curiosities, he kind of just got handed the way to fulfill them.
I will have to see if it makes any sense for him to ask.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on December 22, 2011, 04:39:23 AM
I will have to see if it makes any sense for him to ask.

Considering how well Terran and Barca have handled the current crisis (from the point of view of the east) I'm not sure I would go soliciting much information from any supposed "expert" from either realm.

Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Perth on December 22, 2011, 04:59:37 AM
Considering how well Terran and Barca have handled the current crisis (from the point of view of the east) I'm not sure I would go soliciting much information from any supposed "expert" from either realm.

Uhh... because they did everything they could with the Zuma to ensure the Zuma didn't destroy them all for something they were completely innocent of?

How else would anyone have handled it?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on December 22, 2011, 05:08:17 AM
Uhh... because they did everything they could with the Zuma to ensure the Zuma didn't destroy them all for something they were completely innocent of?

How else would anyone have handled it?

Like I said, from the eastern prospective. Over here it appeared that Terran and their allies were rather reluctant to meet the requests, but also took their own sweat time in trying to negotiate at all. Correct perspective? Probably not but that is how it is. Similar to how D'Hara was convinced that SA was ultra militant and ready to invade on any pretext during the era of the Dragon Queen.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Perth on December 22, 2011, 06:27:45 AM
Like I said, from the eastern prospective. Over here it appeared that Terran and their allies were rather reluctant to meet the requests, but also took their own sweat time in trying to negotiate at all. Correct perspective? Probably not but that is how it is. Similar to how D'Hara was convinced that SA was ultra militant and ready to invade on any pretext during the era of the Dragon Queen.

That's the perspective in the east?

Out of curiosity, what gives/gave them that impression exactly?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on December 22, 2011, 06:46:31 AM
That's the perspective in the east?

Out of curiosity, what gives/gave them that impression exactly?

The normal, the dribs and drabs of messages we get, general speculation within the realm. The same sort of stuff that leads to inaccurate impressions in real life. Oh and the fact that several of us have in the past been in realms in the west and distinctly remember the Zuma being a mere blip on the radar unless you sought trouble with them.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: BardicNerd on December 22, 2011, 06:46:45 AM
. . . he just messaged the Astroist rulers offering to answer any questions they may have about the Zuma.

*is sad that Elsebeth wasn't included on that list*


Elsebeth gets a little uppity anytime Libero's faith in the Stars is questioned . . . though of course there are some good historical reasons people do it.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vaylon Kenadell on December 22, 2011, 07:02:54 AM
And, really, who does know much about the Zuma? Not very many people on Dwilight have ever fought against them. We've all probably seen the occasional huge battle report. But those are doubtless just wild stories the bards tell, right? But who has actually even seen a dwilight daimon, let alone faced them in battle?

My character has seen Daimons and knows a little bit about them. It wouldn't be in-character for him to talk about it, however -- more's the pity, because I'm dying to.

But Brance has been part of what is probably the two largest fortress sieges that Dwilight has ever seen, on the winning side. His side has been victorious in every war they've taken part in. So, why should he expect the Zuma to be any different?

There are 126 nobles in the six major SA-affiliated realms. Now of course not all of them are warriors, but just out of curiosity, how much CS do you think those six realms could raise per noble on average? Again, just out of curiosity.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Bedwyr on December 22, 2011, 07:04:44 AM
Is it bad that this was one of the main theories before Garret just whipped this whole surprise out?

I'd have been surprised if it weren't.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on December 22, 2011, 02:10:02 PM
There are 126 nobles in the six major SA-affiliated realms. Now of course not all of them are warriors, but just out of curiosity, how much CS do you think those six realms could raise per noble on average? Again, just out of curiosity.
For any randomly selected group of characters of sufficient size, a 500CS average is not unreasonable. 600 CS or more is certainly possible with some effort. Anything more, and you're starting to push the limits of what you can do with "average" and "randomly selected". If you hand picked a purpose-built force, then 750 CS or more is easily possible with sufficient funding. But then you have a smaller pool, and your total CS probably won't go up too much, if any.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on December 22, 2011, 02:15:05 PM
Uhh... because they did everything they could with the Zuma to ensure the Zuma didn't destroy them all for something they were completely innocent of?
They weren't innocent. If you were innocent, then they wouldn't have attacked, would they? You must have done something to provoke them, even if we don't know what it was.

Also, Brance finds it curious, and rather odd, that Terran is the one making the big push to acquire the items that the Zuma want, with D'Hara also doing a little. It doesn't seem to us like Barca is doing anything at all to help themselves.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on December 22, 2011, 03:02:13 PM
So if Brance has any curiosities, he kind of just got handed the way to fulfill them.
Having reviewed the situation, I can say that it is unlikely that Brance will be asking Terran for their expertise on the matter. But the situation could change.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on December 22, 2011, 08:28:06 PM
Having reviewed the situation, I can say that it is unlikely that Brance will be asking Terran for their expertise on the matter. But the situation could change.

Meh.

Then don't whine about it on the forum. Because you literally just had the most knowledgeable and experienced person in Dwilight concerning the daimons offer Brance a blank slate of anything he wanted to know... and he ignored it. You can still claim Brance doesn't know about or understand the daimons, but don't claim he couldn't reasonably know about or understand the daimons.

The normal, the dribs and drabs of messages we get, general speculation within the realm. The same sort of stuff that leads to inaccurate impressions in real life. Oh and the fact that several of us have in the past been in realms in the west and distinctly remember the Zuma being a mere blip on the radar unless you sought trouble with them.

Once we've got some benefit of hindsight, Hireshmont is going to write a formal "Here's what happened" type of thing. He is aware, through various ways, that this is the opinion of the eastern realms, and most perturbed about it.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on December 22, 2011, 09:00:51 PM
Then don't whine about it on the forum. Because you literally just had the most knowledgeable and experienced person in Dwilight concerning the daimons offer Brance a blank slate of anything he wanted to know... and he ignored it. You can still claim Brance doesn't know about or understand the daimons, but don't claim he couldn't reasonably know about or understand the daimons.
Whine about it? Excuse me? I don't think I was whining about anything. I was explaining Brance's viewpoint of how thing were going, and why he was doing what he was doing. There is a very good reason that he is not interested in asking Hireshmont about the Zuma. And it is /not/ a general disinterest.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: egamma on December 22, 2011, 09:24:55 PM
They weren't innocent. If you were innocent, then they wouldn't have attacked, would they? You must have done something to provoke them, even if we don't know what it was.

Also, Brance finds it curious, and rather odd, that Terran is the one making the big push to acquire the items that the Zuma want, with D'Hara also doing a little. It doesn't seem to us like Barca is doing anything at all to help themselves.

A little? D'hara is providing half the items. Barca is crippled by being unable to cash bonds or do anything in their capital city.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Perth on December 22, 2011, 09:33:53 PM
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: vanKaya on December 22, 2011, 10:28:55 PM
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Perth on December 23, 2011, 12:18:40 AM
From what I've observed, D'hara is doing much more on the unique items front than Terran is. Probably mostly because D'hara has more contacts abroad due to their trade situation.

But during Barca's founding Terran contributed way more of their military than D'hara did.

All in all though, I feel like the Veinsormoot is very balance in terms of who does what.

I agree.

That was mostly Kale's viewpoint  :P
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on December 23, 2011, 02:06:25 AM
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on December 23, 2011, 10:15:43 AM
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Telrunya on December 23, 2011, 11:00:27 AM
I think it's less about being secretive and more about expecting everyone else to know / figure out without our effort ;) (Which probably isn't a justified thought)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: egamma on December 23, 2011, 05:28:47 PM
Our characters might remember that, if the Moot wasn't so keen on being secretive. My character only learnt the moot even exists a few weeks ago, and still has no idea what it does.

We're like the European Union.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Shizzle on December 23, 2011, 05:37:48 PM
We're like the European Union.

So who's Greece? And Belgium? :P
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on December 23, 2011, 10:37:49 PM
Our characters might remember that, if the Moot wasn't so keen on being secretive. My character only learnt the moot even exists a few weeks ago, and still has no idea what it does.

Secretive? We're not secretive at all.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: vanKaya on December 24, 2011, 12:56:32 AM
Our characters might remember that, if the Moot wasn't so keen on being secretive. My character only learnt the moot even exists a few weeks ago, and still has no idea what it does.

To be fair, there is very little interaction going on between the 'Moot and the Lurias on a player to player basis (as far as I know). I have noticed a lot of Lurian players that complain that the 'Moot is secretive, or, more accurately, that we do not advertise our purpose. I think this is a hypocritical position to take since the only reason players of the 'Moot have any semblance of a notion as to what the Lurian "alliance" (or whatever you would call it) is, comes from the fact that all those realms were friendly colonies of PeL. Thus, with a little intuition, a 'Moot player can look at the Lurian kingdoms (i.e. PeL, LN and Solaria), look at their diplomatic relations with each other and safely conclude that this is a bloc of cooperative nations. Our understanding of the Lurias does not extend any further than that.

What surprises me is when high ups in the Lurian Kingdoms cannot put two and two together and use their keen sense of deduction to realize that the realms of Barca, D'hara and Terran are federated and as such they are simply another power-bloc that is based on cultural and geographical similarities, much like the Lurias (and much like SA). They don't even have to know that the alliance is referred to as the Veinsormoot to understand the fundamental nature of the alliance.

I understand that the name Veinsormoot (which is gibberish if I understand correctly) can be confusing at first, however, there is a very clear and well organized wiki page describing the nature and mandate of the 'Moot. The Wiki is IC knowledge, much like a library, and to think that a Duke in the Lurias or even a Lord, would be so caught up in their own affairs that they would refuse to take the initiative and learn at least the mere basics of their neighbors, and potential rivals, is very, very un-SMA.



Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on December 24, 2011, 02:10:05 AM

What surprises me is when high ups in the Lurian Kingdoms cannot put two and two together and use their keen sense of deduction to realize that the realms of Barca, D'hara and Terran are federated and as such they are simply another power-bloc that is based on cultural and geographical similarities, much like the Lurias (and much like SA). They don't even have to know that the alliance is referred to as the Veinsormoot to understand the fundamental nature of the alliance.


What surprises me is that you think that knowing that Barca D'Hara and Terran are a federated Power Block instantly reveals the purpose of the Moot. We know of the relations between the three realms, we don't necessarily know what the Moot is for.

To be fair, there is very little interaction going on between the 'Moot and the Lurias on a player to player basis (as far as I know). I have noticed a lot of Lurian players that complain that the 'Moot is secretive, or, more accurately, that we do not advertise our purpose. I think this is a hypocritical position to take since the only reason players of the 'Moot have any semblance of a notion as to what the Lurian "alliance" (or whatever you would call it) is, comes from the fact that all those realms were friendly colonies of PeL. Thus, with a little intuition, a 'Moot player can look at the Lurian kingdoms (i.e. PeL, LN and Solaria), look at their diplomatic relations with each other and safely conclude that this is a bloc of cooperative nations. Our understanding of the Lurias does not extend any further than that.


Like has been said numerious times, IC we don't care that much if we know about the moot. We do get tired of the attitude that some have in these forums that we should be taking the Moot seriously, or somehow know IC how the Moot relates to the federation. Of course we as the players know what the Moot is for, but our characters may have much less knowledge. We don't run around expecting other nations to know anything about the Halls of Luria for example.


I understand that the name Veinsormoot (which is gibberish if I understand correctly) can be confusing at first, however, there is a very clear and well organized wiki page describing the nature and mandate of the 'Moot. The Wiki is IC knowledge, much like a library, and to think that a Duke in the Lurias or even a Lord, would be so caught up in their own affairs that they would refuse to take the initiative and learn at least the mere basics of their neighbors, and potential rivals, is very, very un-SMA.


The wiki can be considered IG knowledge, but it is unreasonable to expect every character to have read every available "book" from the wiki. Luria does have a Royal Archivist, I'm sure when she has had the time to review documents about the Moot and have them added to our libraries we will all be better informed.

Besides it is quite in keeping with SMA to underestimate your opponents and just assume that your forces are naturally superior. History hardly suggests that all high ranking nobles bothered to learn anything of real merit about the opposing forces, beyond basic military intelligence.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Bedwyr on December 24, 2011, 02:25:41 AM
To be fair, there is very little interaction going on between the 'Moot and the Lurias on a player to player basis (as far as I know). I have noticed a lot of Lurian players that complain that the 'Moot is secretive, or, more accurately, that we do not advertise our purpose. I think this is a hypocritical position to take since the only reason players of the 'Moot have any semblance of a notion as to what the Lurian "alliance" (or whatever you would call it) is, comes from the fact that all those realms were friendly colonies of PeL. Thus, with a little intuition, a 'Moot player can look at the Lurian kingdoms (i.e. PeL, LN and Solaria), look at their diplomatic relations with each other and safely conclude that this is a bloc of cooperative nations. Our understanding of the Lurias does not extend any further than that.

What surprises me is when high ups in the Lurian Kingdoms cannot put two and two together and use their keen sense of deduction to realize that the realms of Barca, D'hara and Terran are federated and as such they are simply another power-bloc that is based on cultural and geographical similarities, much like the Lurias (and much like SA). They don't even have to know that the alliance is referred to as the Veinsormoot to understand the fundamental nature of the alliance.

You're assuming two things.  1. That anyone in Luria expects anyone outside of Luria to know what's going on in Luria, and 2. That most Lurians care at all about what is going on beyond Luria.  Neither assumption is accurate.  Koli and a few others are attempting to change both of those things, but that's for purely religious reasons.

Quote
I understand that the name Veinsormoot (which is gibberish if I understand correctly) can be confusing at first, however, there is a very clear and well organized wiki page describing the nature and mandate of the 'Moot. The Wiki is IC knowledge, much like a library, and to think that a Duke in the Lurias or even a Lord, would be so caught up in their own affairs that they would refuse to take the initiative and learn at least the mere basics of their neighbors, and potential rivals, is very, very un-SMA.

You're kidding, right?  Do you think lords in the Christian Kingdoms knew anything about how the Muslim world was organized?  There were heads of state in the seventeenth century, much less earlier, who didn't know the first thing about non-Christian lands.

Luria is the single most isolated and isolationist place I've even seen in Battlemaster.  Getting Lurians to care about Fissoa is difficult.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Perth on December 24, 2011, 03:03:35 AM
There were heads of state in the seventeenth century, much less earlier, who didn't know the first thing about non-Christian lands.

Or sometimes even 20th, or 21st....



Frankly I love the fact that every region of Dwilight is so different and they all have super vague ideas of what the other areas are like and normally huge misconceptions and assumptions of what those people are like. It's awesome. You don't see it anywhere else really in Battlemaster. Sure, many realms have unique cultures, but nothing like it is on Dwilight. This is probably one of the most SMA things about Dwilight--the narrow-minded and ignorant and often arrogant attitude taken towards other regions and cultures. They're weirdos, they're barbarians, they're nut-cases who follow some funky religion. In all actually we know next to nothing about these people, and because of that we don't like them, or are scared of them, or think they're lesser than us. And that is awesome. That seems like a Serious Medieval Atmosphere.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on December 24, 2011, 03:11:33 AM
You're kidding, right?  Do you think lords in the Christian Kingdoms knew anything about how the Muslim world was organized?  There were heads of state in the seventeenth century, much less earlier, who didn't know the first thing about non-Christian lands.

Some did, some didn't. I imagine that Muslim leaders in Cairo, Damascus, or Baghdad had a reasonable idea how Christian leaders in Constantinople, Rome, or Bulgaria operated. That's a comparable distance to Lurias/Moot. Except the Moot is, in some cases, actually even closer; maybe more comparable to Sicily or Beneventum related to North Africa, especially in D'Hara's case.

Whatever the case, however, it sounds like it's time for Hireshmont to go on another trip...
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Perth on December 24, 2011, 03:14:16 AM
Some did, some didn't. I imagine that Muslim leaders in Cairo, Damascus, or Baghdad had a reasonable idea how Christian leaders in Constantinople, Rome, or Bulgaria operated. That's a comparable distance to Lurias/Moot. Except the Moot is, in some cases, actually even closer; maybe more comparable to Sicily or Beneventum related to North Africa, especially in D'Hara's case.

To see a layover map of Dwilight and Europe, just for distance comparisons would be a lot of fun/interesting.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on December 24, 2011, 03:46:49 AM
To see a layover map of Dwilight and Europe, just for distance comparisons would be a lot of fun/interesting.

Yeah; it's tricky though, because Dwilight's longest dimension is on a different axis, and distance is sometimes less about "as the crow flies" and more about the ratio of roads and navigable seas to mountains and pirates.

But a layover map would still be conceptually useful.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Perth on December 24, 2011, 03:57:45 AM
Yeah; it's tricky though, because Dwilight's longest dimension is on a different axis, and distance is sometimes less about "as the crow flies" and more about the ratio of roads and navigable seas to mountains and pirates.

But a layover map would still be conceptually useful.

Yeah, of course it would all be "roughly" but it would be cool.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: vanKaya on December 24, 2011, 04:29:16 AM
You're assuming two things.  1. That anyone in Luria expects anyone outside of Luria to know what's going on in Luria, and 2. That most Lurians care at all about what is going on beyond Luria.  Neither assumption is accurate.  Koli and a few others are attempting to change both of those things, but that's for purely religious reasons.

You're kidding, right?  Do you think lords in the Christian Kingdoms knew anything about how the Muslim world was organized?  There were heads of state in the seventeenth century, much less earlier, who didn't know the first thing about non-Christian lands.

Luria is the single most isolated and isolationist place I've even seen in Battlemaster.  Getting Lurians to care about Fissoa is difficult.

Look, every morning my character wakes up, and, as a member of the social and political elite (as all of us are), his scribe presents to him pertinent information on a variety of issues. One of those pieces of information is a scroll which outlines the known diplomatic relations of all the continent's realms. By this information, and essentially this information alone, he is able to piece together that the realms of Luria Nova, PeL and Solaria are in an alliance. I don't know the details of this alliance but it's safe to assume it involves mutual defense and cooperation to some degree. Boom, my character understands the fundamental basics of the Lurian political situation. I don't know about the Halls of Luria just like the Lurians can't be expected to know that our alliance is called the Veinsormoot, but come on? You had NO idea of the alliance thats right smack in front of you?

The impression I get of the Lurian nobility is that they are willfully and purposefully ignorant.

"Herrr my scribes showed me a chart showing that Terran, D'hara and Barca are Federated. What does that mean, derrrrrrr"

(no offense, just trying to make a point. Seriously, do not be offended. Please.)

And its not SMA to be unaware of the political situation around you. Alliances around this time were a large part built around deterring attacks and most alliances were very public knowledge. Luria claiming it doesn't know about D'hara's alliance with Terran and Barca is like France not being aware of the Anglo-Portuguese alliance, it's absurd.

I'm not saying Luria should care at all about the alliance beside them, but it is unrealistic to say that they wouldn't at least be aware of it's existence.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on December 24, 2011, 04:48:05 AM
Look, every morning my character wakes up, and, as a member of the social and political elite (as all of us are), his scribe presents to him pertinent information on a variety of issues. One of those pieces of information is a scroll which outlines the known diplomatic relations of all the continent's realms. By this information, and essentially this information alone, he is able to piece together that the realms of Luria Nova, PeL and Solaria are in an alliance. I don't know the details of this alliance but it's safe to assume it involves mutual defense and cooperation to some degree. Boom, my character understands the fundamental basics of the Lurian political situation. I don't know about the Halls of Luria just like the Lurians can't be expected to know that our alliance is called the Veinsormoot, but come on? You had NO idea of the alliance thats right smack in front of you?

The impression I get of the Lurian nobility is that they are willfully and purposefully ignorant.

"Herrr my scribes showed me a chart showing that Terran, D'hara and Barca are Federated. What does that mean, derrrrrrr"

(no offense, just trying to make a point. Seriously, do not be offended. Please.)

And its not SMA to be unaware of the political situation around you. Alliances around this time were a large part built around deterring attacks and most alliances were very public knowledge. Luria claiming it doesn't know about D'hara's alliance with Terran and Barca is like France not being aware of the Anglo-Portuguese alliance, it's absurd.

I'm not saying Luria should care at all about the alliance beside them, but it is unrealistic to say that they wouldn't at least be aware of it's existence.

We never said we didn't know about the Federation, that was your position. We did say our characters have no idea what the goals and purpose of the Moot are, though most of us have become aware of its existence due mostly to the Zuma incident.

I don't know why you harp on about Lurians not knowing about D'Hara's alliance. It is probably the only thing that prevented an invasion of D'Hara a few months back.

Quote
And its not SMA to be unaware of the political situation around you. Alliances around this time were a large part built around deterring attacks and most alliances were very public knowledge. Luria claiming it doesn't know about D'hara's alliance with Terran and Barca is like France not being aware of the Anglo-Portuguese alliance, it's absurd.

Actually they were just as much about offense as defense. As such often the first you knew about a new alliance, was when a co-ordinated attack appeared. I'm sure you can think of MANY reasons two medieval realms would have wished to keep an alliance secret, or to keep the true extent or details of the alliance hidden.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on December 24, 2011, 05:11:18 AM
...Terran, D'hara and Barca are Federated.
Wait... they are? Huh.... when did that happen?

While as a player I think that the Veinsormoot is an interesting idea. IC my character has heard the name a few times, but doesn't really care. It's not like the Veinsormoot ever really publicize their existence. Or attempt to inform other realms as to what it does, or stands for. Come to think of it, I wonder if any sovereign rulers will consent to actually deal with the Veinsormoot as a political organization.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: egamma on December 24, 2011, 05:44:35 AM
What I don't get is all this...antagonism towards the 'moot. It's on par with the hatred of SA, except that the Moot hasn't gangbanged any realms into nonexistence to justify that hatred. Yes, yes, those attacks were all perfectly justified, those realms just refused to back down, etc. Whatever. They were gangbanged by multiple SA realms, and the Moot has never done anything like that.

So...why do people continually whine and complain that they don't know the purpose of the Moot? Either find out, or ignore it.

Please stop complaining, over and over again, that the easily accessible information from the wiki wasn't shouted at your character in a roleplay. I'm tired of hearing about it.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on December 24, 2011, 06:08:04 AM
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Bedwyr on December 24, 2011, 07:04:11 AM
Look, every morning my character wakes up, and, as a member of the social and political elite (as all of us are), his scribe presents to him pertinent information on a variety of issues. One of those pieces of information is a scroll which outlines the known diplomatic relations of all the continent's realms. By this information, and essentially this information alone, he is able to piece together that the realms of Luria Nova, PeL and Solaria are in an alliance. I don't know the details of this alliance but it's safe to assume it involves mutual defense and cooperation to some degree. Boom, my character understands the fundamental basics of the Lurian political situation. I don't know about the Halls of Luria just like the Lurians can't be expected to know that our alliance is called the Veinsormoot, but come on? You had NO idea of the alliance thats right smack in front of you?

Lurian leaders are aware of the Veinsormoot.  Koli is fully aware of the three main realms, that Hireshmont is some sort of spokeperson for a decentralized but fairly unified federation, that Asylon is somewhat associated, that Aurvandil has some relationship with Barca, and that there are disagreements within the 'Moot about Madina and Aurvandil.  Other Lurian leaders are at least aware of the alliance chains, and some of them are certainly aware that the Veinsormoot exists.  But no one, Koli included, has the faintest idea what the point of the 'Moot is, if there is one besides a more formalized alliance.

Your depiction of the Lurian political situation is considerably less certain.  Pian en Luries is allied with Luria Nova, Solaria, and Fissoa, but Solaria isn't allied with Luria Nova or Fissoa, and Luria Nova isn't allied to Fissoa or Solaria.  Luria, at this point, is a polite fiction that certain people are attempting to make more real.

As for learning more about it, Koli is currently on a trip (he has to detour back because the Duchess of Askileon unexpectedly disappeared, but he'll be returning to it shortly) with several purposes, one of which is to learn more about other realms.  It's taken him the entire time since the Duchal Revolution to feel comfortable in leaving Luria, and both IC and OOC I'm not at all certain that wasn't a mistake, as Luria Nova is still incredibly unsettled.  There have almost been three civil wars that I'm aware of since then, and there are still talks about another Lurian internal war.

The 'Moot is really far away in the sense of "effective military action" because there's no chance in hell that any force it might field could actually hurt Luria, so when there are continued civil war dangers, people worry more about that, talk about Fissoa, or the wild lands to the north.  The only reason it's on the horizon at all except for religious reasons is that it makes potential hostilities with D'hara more interesting.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Bedwyr on December 24, 2011, 07:05:28 AM
What I don't get is all this...antagonism towards the 'moot. It's on par with the hatred of SA, except that the Moot hasn't gangbanged any realms into nonexistence to justify that hatred. Yes, yes, those attacks were all perfectly justified, those realms just refused to back down, etc. Whatever. They were gangbanged by multiple SA realms, and the Moot has never done anything like that.

So...why do people continually whine and complain that they don't know the purpose of the Moot? Either find out, or ignore it.

Please stop complaining, over and over again, that the easily accessible information from the wiki wasn't shouted at your character in a roleplay. I'm tired of hearing about it.

As has been explained many times: It's not that we don't know about it.  It's that people in the 'Moot expect that everyone else should. 
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on December 24, 2011, 07:45:11 AM
As has been explained many times: It's not that we don't know about it.  It's that people in the 'Moot expect that everyone else should.

I think that idealistically we hope that people will at least give a once-through just-the-highlights read to the various treaties on the Wiki, and the million-and-a-half times we've made various announcements through many channels of our existence.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on December 24, 2011, 08:39:33 AM
I think that idealistically we hope that people will at least give a once-through just-the-highlights read to the various treaties on the Wiki, and the million-and-a-half times we've made various announcements through many channels of our existence.

The problem with the wiki is, although it can be regarded as IC info, it is not a mandatory reference. I know quite a few players that never bother to look at it at all. For Dwilight I don't just peruse the wiki for info, I have quite a few guidelines that dictate what parts of the wiki Juan is legitimately going to have access to. I don't brook with the idea that everything on the wiki is going to be found in every library across the island, but that is just a personal preference.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on December 24, 2011, 04:03:15 PM
do people continually whine and complain that they don't know the purpose of the Moot? Either find out, or ignore it.
Why do people whine and complain that no one takes the Veinsormoot seriously when they don't do anything IC to promote it as a political entity?

I think Brance has only heard of it from one person, Hireshmont. You'd think that if it was important to the member states that foreign powers be aware of the Veinsormoot and deal with it, that they would promote it. Beyond that, though, it is the obligation of the members of an organization to promote themselves if they want people to know about it. You can't just put the info on the wiki and expect people to rush over and read all about it.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Lorgan on December 24, 2011, 04:49:40 PM
Why would foreign leaders recognize the existence of the Moot when all they achieve by that is promoting the union of possibly hostile realms. Only when that union becomes clear through actions aimed against those foreign powers will they have a reason to recognize it, and even then they will find it highly preferable to negotiate with the Moot's members separately.

So if you want the Moot to be recognized around the continent as a supra-national body, promote it by actions, not by words. This united stance (afaik) in dealing with the Zuma is a good start, but still the overwhelming majority of the nobles of Dwilight don't really care about the Zuma and just see those realms that do care band together against a common enemy. Nothing too surprising or out of the ordinary.

Only when other realms notice that they can't get through to barca, terran or d'hara without going through the Moot will they start caring about their relations with that guild. Until then it's just a means of communication between allies in our eyes. Like the Church is for SA and the Halls of Luria are for the Luria's. Nothing more, nothing less.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on December 24, 2011, 05:15:46 PM
Why would foreign leaders recognize the existence of the Moot when all they achieve by that is promoting the union of possibly hostile realms. Only when that union becomes clear through actions aimed against those foreign powers will they have a reason to recognize it, and even then they will find it highly preferable to negotiate with the Moot's members separately.

So if you want the Moot to be recognized around the continent as a supra-national body, promote it by actions, not by words. This united stance (afaik) in dealing with the Zuma is a good start, but still the overwhelming majority of the nobles of Dwilight don't really care about the Zuma and just see those realms that do care band together against a common enemy. Nothing too surprising or out of the ordinary.

Only when other realms notice that they can't get through to barca, terran or d'hara without going through the Moot will they start caring about their relations with that guild. Until then it's just a means of communication between allies in our eyes. Like the Church is for SA and the Halls of Luria are for the Luria's. Nothing more, nothing less.

Entirely plausible; I expect that, even. But that wasn't the point. The issue was people saying that they didn't know anything about the Moot. If they know but just don't respect it, I can understand that.

Why do people whine and complain that no one takes the Veinsormoot seriously when they don't do anything IC to promote it as a political entity?

Did you not read my post where I explained that we do promote it politically IC, and I know for a fact that you have received detailed information multiple times?

I think Hireshmont has only heard of Astrum from one person, Brance. You'd think that if it was important to the member nobles that foreign powers be aware of Astrum and deal with it, that they would promote it. Beyond that, though, it is the obligation of the members of an organization to promote themselves if they want people to know about it.

Ah, yes; Astrum. I've only heard about it from Brance, its ruler, so it isn't important and I obviously can't be expected to know anything about it.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: egamma on December 24, 2011, 06:04:06 PM
Why do people whine and complain that no one takes the Veinsormoot seriously when they don't do anything IC to promote it as a political entity?

I think Brance has only heard of it from one person, Hireshmont. You'd think that if it was important to the member states that foreign powers be aware of the Veinsormoot and deal with it, that they would promote it. Beyond that, though, it is the obligation of the members of an organization to promote themselves if they want people to know about it. You can't just put the info on the wiki and expect people to rush over and read all about it.

Should I post a message in every region I pass through, extolling the virtues of not only the Moot, but Verdis Elementum, the Dwilight Trade Company, and the Libidizedd Trading Company?

Why do you need to know our motivation? I (and Gornak) don't expect anyone to care about the Moot, most of the time. But when you encounter the Moot in a meaningful way, you/your character should then learn all they can about it, or at least enough to deal with the current situation, whatever that is.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on December 24, 2011, 06:35:27 PM
Nevermind them they are just trying to be cool dood winners of Battlemaster... I know what the moot is and thats all that matters in this life. 8)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Bedwyr on December 24, 2011, 07:26:07 PM
I think that idealistically we hope that people will at least give a once-through just-the-highlights read to the various treaties on the Wiki, and the million-and-a-half times we've made various announcements through many channels of our existence.

And the people who are involved with foreign affairs in Luria have.  As soon as Koli found out about it after one of the incidents with D'hara, he pulled info on it from every library he could, and shared it with the Lurians who were involved with foreign affairs.

The idea that everyone down to region lords in Luria is involved in foreign affairs is the part I find ludicrous.  The Rulers and Ambassadors know.  Some of the rest of the Councils do.  At a guess only one of the current Dukes does, and that's only barely and tangentially.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on December 24, 2011, 08:17:57 PM
Why do you need to know our motivation? I (and Gornak) don't expect anyone to care about the Moot, most of the time. But when you encounter the Moot in a meaningful way, you/your character should then learn all they can about it, or at least enough to deal with the current situation, whatever that is.
I have never encountered the Veinsormoot in-game in a meaningful way. Hireshmont has mentioned the name once or twice. But so what? I've never had to sign a treaty with the Veinsormoot. I've never had to negotiate a trade agreement with the Veinsormoot. I've never negotiated borders with the Veinsormoot. Yet I do all these things with the various realms that comprise the Veinsormoot. Never once has one of them said "I can't sign that treaty/agreement, you'll have to negotiate with the Veinsormoot."

So, what incentive do I have to deal with the Veinsormoot, or learn anything about it? The members don't promote (except for the occasional mention of the name from Hireshmont). I've never been told to go deal with them. And my dealings with the individual member states have not in any way been impacted, so far as I can tell, by the fact that they are members of this guild. So, considering that I can get everything done that I need to get done without ever having to deal with this Veinsormoot in any way, what incentive do I have to invest the time and effort in learning about it and how to deal with it? As Lorgan even said, the Veinsormoot is actually detrimental to my purposes, as it forces me to deal with the realms as a whole. Which I don't really have to, because the members will deal with me individually.

IMO, if you want people to deal with the Veinsormoot, and make it into something more than just a simple guild, you need to make it easy for them to deal with the guild, and make it to their advantage. Because right now, there is absolutely no incentive to or advantage in dealing with them. I don't know how you're going to do this. Game mechanics don't support it for guilds.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on December 24, 2011, 09:04:51 PM
I have never encountered the Veinsormoot in-game in a meaningful way. Hireshmont has mentioned the name once or twice. But so what? I've never had to sign a treaty with the Veinsormoot. I've never had to negotiate a trade agreement with the Veinsormoot. I've never negotiated borders with the Veinsormoot. Yet I do all these things with the various realms that comprise the Veinsormoot. Never once has one of them said "I can't sign that treaty/agreement, you'll have to negotiate with the Veinsormoot."

So what you're saying is, "No, I don't actually read my messages."

I didn't mention it once or twice. We had about a 3-4 page back and forth about the Moot. You don't seem to recall that, which is strange to me.

Also, you haven't signed a treaty with the Moot, true. To my knowledge you haven't signed a treaty with any realm in the Moot. Nor have you negotiated borders with any realm in the Moot. My memory of it seems to be that Hireshmont and Brance both left rather in a huff.

However, Hireshmont did say at the beginning, before things really got heated, that Hireshmont wouldn't sign an agreement until he had run it by the Moot. Apparently you forgot that as well. Admittedly, I did send quite a few rather long messages.

So, what incentive do I have to deal with the Veinsormoot, or learn anything about it?

The incentive of, if Brance does, he maybe won't continue collectively pissing off all of humanity south of Golden Farrow?

The members don't promote (except for the occasional mention of the name from Hireshmont).

See "sarcastic remark about Astrum." Astrum doesn't promote except for Brance. I can't remember the last time an Astrumite ambassador wandered down here to do or say anything. I know that a Moot representative was in Astrum and Iashalur less than two weeks ago. How 'bout dem applies?

I've never been told to go deal with them.

Yes you have, you just don't remember. And, even then, it'd be a moot point (no pun intended) since most of your interactions were with Hireshmont, who is Mootgram anyways, and compulsive about keeping the Elders informed about everything. Working with Hireshmont is working with the Moot, because he checks everything through the Moot anyways. Though I suppose that isn't necessary something Brance would know; though maybe it should have clued you in that many of our messages included the rulers of D'Hara and Barca, and Hireshmont referenced very close coordination with D'Hara quite a few times.

And my dealings with the individual member states have not in any way been impacted, so far as I can tell, by the fact that they are members of this guild.

Which goes to show that you can't tell very far, because your relations with Terran, at least, have been very greatly affected by Terran's membership in a supranational government, and by Brance (and Allison's) decision to reject participation in it.

So, considering that I can get everything done that I need to get done without ever having to deal with this Veinsormoot in any way, what incentive do I have to invest the time and effort in learning about it and how to deal with it?

Again, because not doing so has already led to the title "Vasilif" being a derogatory term in Terran. I believe I've seen it punned as "Vassalif" a few times. Maybe Brance doesn't care about diplomacy in other realms; in which case he has nothing to gain.

As Lorgan even said, the Veinsormoot is actually detrimental to my purposes, as it forces me to deal with the realms as a whole. Which I don't really have to, because the members will deal with me individually.

The first sentence is reasonable enough; Brance can just make the decision not to work with the Moot. Fine. But, to reiterate, that is not what we were originally talking about. We were talking about the issue of knowing about the Moot, and you claimed that Brance had never really had any encounters with the Moot and so couldn't be expected to know about it. The second sentence is false; to my knowledge, no Moot realm has engaged in any truly substantive independent diplomacy with Astrum. I know D'Hara chats with Astrum occasionally, but I don't think they have any treaties or formal agreements with Astrum. If they do, they must be pretty secret.

IMO, if you want people to deal with the Veinsormoot, and make it into something more than just a simple guild, you need to make it easy for them to deal with the guild, and make it to their advantage.

We're not really struggling to get people to recognize the Moot. Madina, Aurvandil, and the Caerwynian contingent all have formal delegates sent to the Moot (not a specific realm); same is the case for Asylon. The Lurias could have such a thing if they wanted it; I suspect they'll get around to it eventually. Morek has a delegate in the Moot, and has had direct diplomacy with the Moot. Astrum is kind of the odd-man-out. The only significant foreigner, to my knowledge, that has "purely" bilateral relations with a Moot realm is probably Corsanctum with D'Hara.

Because right now, there is absolutely no incentive to or advantage in dealing with them. I don't know how you're going to do this. Game mechanics don't support it for guilds.

Yes there is.

Don't deal with it and you'll find it hard to make any diplomatic progress in the south. That simple. Maybe that doesn't bother you; fine. But if you want to get anything done anywhere in the Maroccidens, or related to it, without issues coming to violence or threats of violence, you go through the Moot. That's not a prescriptive thing, btw, it's descriptive. Historically, in the Maroccidens, you are either in the Moot, or relate directly through formal delegations with the Moot, or you are at war with/actively sabotaged by the Moot. "Peacefully but pointedly ignore" has not yet happened.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Artemesia on December 25, 2011, 04:05:49 AM
The Moot is moot? o.O

Actually OOCly I can see how some pieces might fit together really interestingly, given the posts by that Cross fellow (He's in Morek btw). Y'all remember that stuff he said about poking the Zuma with a stick? Of course, some dude like Indirik will probably immediately deny it or whatever (It's predictable behavior). Don't sweat dudes: It ain't going in-game cuz I don't have any letters proving that stuff. Some dude's probably going to try to get on my case about that, lol. Uh, yeah...I am kept in line, more or less, but haters gonna hate, amirite ppl lol.

But historically speaking, Brance (And kinda Indirik sometim...most of the time...) has been pretty arrogant and I suppose the word is...high handed? You know, when it feels like the dude's thinking he's sitting atop a horse talking down to you.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on December 25, 2011, 05:47:08 AM
I didn't mention it once or twice. We had about a 3-4 page back and forth about the Moot. You don't seem to recall that, which is strange to me.
We did send several messages back and forth, but they did not focus on the Veinsormoot. It was a very peripheral issue to the border treaty negotiations. I know you discussed it with Allison. Perhaps you're thinking of that.

Quote
Also, you haven't signed a treaty with the Moot, true. To my knowledge you haven't signed a treaty with any realm in the Moot. Nor have you negotiated borders with any realm in the Moot. My memory of it seems to be that Hireshmont and Brance both left rather in a huff.
Yeah, we started, it just never finished. But that negotiation was not with the Veinsormoot. It was between Astrum and Terran. Not Astrum and the Veinsormoot.

Quote
The incentive of, if Brance does, he maybe won't continue collectively pissing off all of humanity south of Golden Farrow?
What's the fun of not making any enemies? Maybe as soon as he finds someone down there worth not pissing off, his opinions will change. But so far, he hasn't been very impressed with most of what he's seen.

Quote
See "sarcastic remark about Astrum." Astrum doesn't promote except for Brance.
Astrum isn't here on the forums complaining about how no one takes them seriously, and how no one understands them, and who they are, etc.

Astrum also isn't a guild. Astrum is a realm. A power structure specifically designed into, and enshrined in the game, around which all game mechanics are built. Anyone can look anywhere and see just about all the information on realms they want to see. Guilds... not so much. So if you want your guild to be visible and influential on that level, then it is incumbent on you to do whatever it takes to make that happen.

Quote
I know that a Moot representative was in Astrum and Iashalur less than two weeks ago. How 'bout dem applies?
A noble from Terran requested passage through Astrum. Which I granted. If he was intended to represent the Veinsormoot to Astrum, he did a piss poor job. The only contact he had with me was to ask if he could pass through. Which he did, without attempting any further contact, or identifying himself as related to the Veinsormoot in any way. Is this what you consider to be representing and promoting the Veinsormoot?

Quote
Yes you have, you just don't remember. And, even then, it'd be a moot point (no pun intended) since most of your interactions were with Hireshmont, who is Mootgram anyways, and compulsive about keeping the Elders informed about everything. Working with Hireshmont is working with the Moot, because he checks everything through the Moot anyways.
It doesn't matter what happens internally to the Veinsormoot, if you don't make clear what is happening to those outside the Veinsormoot. Our characters don't know that's what he does.

I understand that you think that you have been promoting the Veinsormoot. But maybe people aren't seeing your efforts in the way they are intending them. Or maybe you're not being specific enough. Or maybe your attempts to promote have been mixed in with other messages that have overridden the points about the Veinsormoot. Like Hireshmont's offer to provide information about the Zuma. That message also included not-so-veiled threats of Zuma invasions, and how Hireshmont was in good with Haktoo, and how Astrum had better sever all ties with Kabrinskia or else the Zuma would probably invade. No, that's not what you said directly. But that's how several people read the message. So any attempt you may have wanted to present of being helpful was completely lost in the indirect and not-so-indirect threats you presented in your letters.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on December 25, 2011, 05:50:37 AM
But historically speaking, Brance (And kinda Indirik sometim...most of the time...) has been pretty arrogant and I suppose the word is...high handed? You know, when it feels like the dude's thinking he's sitting atop a horse talking down to you.
He has been the ruler of the largest, wealthiest, most populous, and most powerful realm on Dwilight. Why wouldn't he be a bit arrogant and heavy-handed? He's convinced he's doing the right things, for the right reasons. And he's a bit of a religion zealot.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Artemesia on December 25, 2011, 01:03:48 PM
He has been the ruler of the largest, wealthiest, most populous, and most powerful realm on Dwilight. Why wouldn't he be a bit arrogant and heavy-handed? He's convinced he's doing the right things, for the right reasons. And he's a bit of a religion zealot.

If that's the case, you'd have to add "foolish" to his characteristics because clearly then he hasn't heard about the consequences of pride and its timing in relation to the fall.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on December 26, 2011, 05:16:41 PM
If that's the case, you'd have to add "foolish" to his characteristics because clearly then he hasn't heard about the consequences of pride and its timing in relation to the fall.
Pride cometh after the fall, when you get back up and kick the ass of the person that tripped you, and pound his ugly little face into the dirt.  :D
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on December 27, 2011, 06:17:30 PM
I understand that you think that you have been promoting the Veinsormoot. But maybe people aren't seeing your efforts in the way they are intending them. Or maybe you're not being specific enough. Or maybe your attempts to promote have been mixed in with other messages that have overridden the points about the Veinsormoot. Like Hireshmont's offer to provide information about the Zuma. That message also included not-so-veiled threats of Zuma invasions, and how Hireshmont was in good with Haktoo, and how Astrum had better sever all ties with Kabrinskia or else the Zuma would probably invade. No, that's not what you said directly. But that's how several people read the message. So any attempt you may have wanted to present of being helpful was completely lost in the indirect and not-so-indirect threats you presented in your letters.

Which is OOCly hilarious to me, because Hireshmont was not intending to be threatening at all. That was his way of trying to extend the olive branch and be apologetic.  Which I as a player knew probably wouldn't work, but he as a character has been quite confused over Brance's apparent offendedness, especially given the other SA rulers have had a very different response.  But that's IC knowledge.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on December 27, 2011, 09:50:59 PM
Which is OOCly hilarious to me, because Hireshmont was not intending to be threatening at all. That was his way of trying to extend the olive branch and be apologetic.
We definitely have different ways of looking at things. But maybe it's also because of our different knowledge of the actual situation. I'm not the only one that saw the message as Hireshmont bragging about him now being in good with Haktoo, and how Kabrinskia and Iashalur were in imminent danger of being invaded by the Zuma, and that we had better abandon all ties with them, or be invaded too. No, this wasn't what was said directly. But to several of us, this was the obvious conclusion.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Solari on December 27, 2011, 10:10:21 PM
We definitely have different ways of looking at things. But maybe it's also because of our different knowledge of the actual situation. I'm not the only one that saw the message as Hireshmont bragging about him now being in good with Haktoo, and how Kabrinskia and Iashalur were in imminent danger of being invaded by the Zuma, and that we had better abandon all ties with them, or be invaded too. No, this wasn't what was said directly. But to several of us, this was the obvious conclusion.

Being completely abstracted from the situation and impartial, I can confirm that this is exactly how I read the letter.  Behold, the limitations of text as a means of effective and complete communication.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on December 27, 2011, 10:16:54 PM
We definitely have different ways of looking at things. But maybe it's also because of our different knowledge of the actual situation. I'm not the only one that saw the message as Hireshmont bragging about him now being in good with Haktoo, and how Kabrinskia and Iashalur were in imminent danger of being invaded by the Zuma, and that we had better abandon all ties with them, or be invaded too. No, this wasn't what was said directly. But to several of us, this was the obvious conclusion.

Yes, there's something about Hireshmont's approach to relations with Astrum that just never seems to go over right. I remember when Brance was sharing Hireshmont's letters concerning Demyansk. I have gathered OOC that Hireshmont thought himself to be eminently reasonable in that discussion, but it was not received that way in Astrum at all. The Council was practically up in arms from the very first letter.  Relations, such as they are, seem to have continued in that vein since, with neither side understanding the other's point of view in the slightest. There's something about Hireshmont's attitude or style of communication that just drives Astrum's Council crazy and serves to obscure his intent.

Astrum is a very insular realm in many ways. We mostly ignore our heathen neighbors, and always have, with the exception of our decision to attack Everguard. Averoth could have stayed where it was forever for all we cared. Same with Caerwyn. I imagine we will take the same tack with Terran and Asylon. As long as they tacitly acknowledge and avoid interfering with our interests, I doubt we'll ever have much to say to either of them. Of course, you never know what Allison's going to do, and since Kabrinskia will probably be one of our interests, for better or for worse, there's always the possibility that we get involved in some kind of trouble that Allison stirs up.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Bedwyr on December 28, 2011, 07:06:19 AM
Being completely abstracted from the situation and impartial, I can confirm that this is exactly how I read the letter.  Behold, the limitations of text as a means of effective and complete communication.

Heh, I think that's also Manifest Path suspicion of the Daimon-accomodating Westerners at work too.  I know Koli takes everything the Moot realms say with a hefty helping of salt specifically because of that.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: dustole on January 15, 2012, 05:09:36 PM
A little bit of political infighting going on in SA.  Some of you Elders are just poor losers!
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on January 15, 2012, 07:19:22 PM
Yes, calling Gustav a puppet of Allison, how would you ever get that idea?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: dustole on January 15, 2012, 11:01:56 PM
*Allison cracks her whip*

"Dance puppet, dance!"
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on January 16, 2012, 03:26:30 AM
Although I did give very sound reasoning for why my character voted the way he did.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Artemesia on January 16, 2012, 02:00:46 PM
Vote?

Heretic is curious. Obviously heretic can't use this in-game so meh. ...In-game heretic doesn't care anyway since other people are apparently more than happy to try to say bad stuff about SA without Garret saying anything, lol?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: vonGenf on January 16, 2012, 03:36:56 PM
Vote?

Heretic is curious. Obviously heretic can't use this in-game so meh. ...In-game heretic doesn't care anyway since other people are apparently more than happy to try to say bad stuff about SA without Garret saying anything, lol?

We vote about the way we vote. Each side has a favorite voting manner which would make it easier for their side to win. No none is happy about the manner in which the vote about the manner in which to vote is held.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: dustole on January 16, 2012, 03:42:24 PM
We vote about the way we vote. Each side has a favorite voting manner which would make it easier for their side to win. No none is happy about the manner in which the vote about the manner in which to vote is held.

+1


I know what is going on and I had to read this twice for it to make sense!  Well worded.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: vonGenf on January 16, 2012, 03:48:15 PM
In-game heretic doesn't care anyway since other people are apparently more than happy to try to say bad stuff about SA without Garret saying anything, lol?

Oh, and I have so many bad stuff about non-SA people that I'm just itching to send to you......
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on January 16, 2012, 03:51:36 PM
Meh, the whole way in which voting was implemented is just a train wreck. I can't believe the way that voting for Regent, of all things, was implemented.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Feylonis on January 19, 2012, 07:21:48 PM
Ew, this has been going on a while and I'm sad I didn't jump in sooner! With that said, some points:

1) I, personally, love playing a character that's coldly antagonistic towards SA (Halleria). Ever since Springdale (Empire), when it was divided through SA politicizing, to Thulsoma, to Summerdale (which eventually fell under the SA shadow), to Averoth, Caerwyn, and now Asylon. It's been a very fun time, and now Allison has a realm right next to my duchy. Muahahaha.

2) About the issue with Lavendrow and Demyansk --- the thing is, Caerwyn didn't completely fall to Astrum/SA. Itau seceded, Golden Farrow was lost, but Via survived and pledged allegiance to Asylon, thereby carrying whatever remained to the latter realm (regions, claims). It's somewhat similar to the real-world issue on Sabah, Malaysia - the region, which was leased to the British East company (who then included it in the creation of Malaysia), is owned by the Sulu royal family, who are Filipino citizens. Claims supersede nationality/allegiance, but what to do about that, of course, depends wholly on the individual parties.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on January 19, 2012, 11:05:04 PM
Ew, this has been going on a while and I'm sad I didn't jump in sooner! With that said, some points:

1) I, personally, love playing a character that's coldly antagonistic towards SA (Halleria). Ever since Springdale (Empire), when it was divided through SA politicizing, to Thulsoma, to Summerdale (which eventually fell under the SA shadow), to Averoth, Caerwyn, and now Asylon. It's been a very fun time, and now Allison has a realm right next to my duchy. Muahahaha.

2) About the issue with Lavendrow and Demyansk --- the thing is, Caerwyn didn't completely fall to Astrum/SA. Itau seceded, Golden Farrow was lost, but Via survived and pledged allegiance to Asylon, thereby carrying whatever remained to the latter realm (regions, claims). It's somewhat similar to the real-world issue on Sabah, Malaysia - the region, which was leased to the British East company (who then included it in the creation of Malaysia), is owned by the Sulu royal family, who are Filipino citizens. Claims supersede nationality/allegiance, but what to do about that, of course, depends wholly on the individual parties.

Legally speaking you probably have a point. However, Astrum doesn't see it that way, and making this argument would require Asylon to be willing to back up such a claim. I would be surprised if they were. They've already benefited immensely from this turn of events (although having Allison as a new neighbor may come back to haunt them), so it's really not in their interest to sour relations with Astrum and Kabrinskia over a couple of regions that they were willing to sign away to Terran in the first place.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on January 19, 2012, 11:15:24 PM
Legally speaking you probably have a point. However, Astrum doesn't see it that way, and making this argument would require Asylon to be willing to back up such a claim. I would be surprised if they were. They've already benefited immensely from this turn of events (although having Allison as a new neighbor may come back to haunt them), so it's really not in their interest to sour relations with Astrum and Kabrinskia over a couple of regions that they were willing to sign away to Terran in the first place.

Any claim by ex-caerwyns would require the other local realms to acknowledge them. So really it all depends on if Caerwyn becomes a distant irrelevant memory to the remaining realms. Now I'm all the way over in the East, but from what I see most realms have moved on and Caerwyn is largely fogotten.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on January 20, 2012, 03:00:05 AM
The treaty under which a lot of those claims were laid out does not allow Caerwyn nobles to take claims like that. It also did not allow Itaulond to lay claim, as Caerwyn never ceded claim to them. The only way that any realm could make a claim to the land was by making up a new way to do it. At least insofar as any pre-existing document goes. Astrum claimed right of conquest, Terran claimed that the lands were never occupied by Caerwyn, so Astrum could not have been said to have conquered them, and claimed them as "they're close to us, so they're ours". Asylon never really tried to claim farther than the Via duchy by possession, and no one cared to dispute the claim to Via.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on January 20, 2012, 03:22:36 AM
Lets just be happy that Halleria doesn't make the policy regarding Asylons claims, the borders have been settled, we have been magnanimous in our efforts to assure peace in the region. Let also not forget that Asylon has about just as many nobles now as Astrum and a growing economy that is an emerging power in the Messociddens and a strong alliance with Terran. I would say that the image that Astrum has of Asylon being a mere backwater should change, your information is out of date . I know that your leaders have long looked down their noses at what I/we have done for Asylon. It is no matter, we have done it without your help almost every step of the way.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Zakilevo on January 20, 2012, 03:33:49 AM
Things are rather becoming boring again. Hope we get another war to fight soon.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on January 20, 2012, 03:47:25 AM
Lets just be happy that Halleria doesn't make the policy regarding Asylons claims, the borders have been settled, we have been magnanimous in our efforts to assure peace in the region. Let also not forget that Asylon has about just as many nobles now as Astrum and a growing economy that is an emerging power in the Messociddens and a strong alliance with Terran. I would say that the image that Astrum has of Asylon being a mere backwater should change, your information is out of date . I know that your leaders have long looked down their noses at what I/we have done for Asylon. It is no matter, we have done it without your help almost every step of the way.
Wee! Free-floating hostility!

Seriously, where the heck did that rant come from? I don't see as how anything I said there about Asylon was negative or disparaging.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on January 20, 2012, 03:54:18 AM
Wee! Free-floating hostility!

Seriously, where the heck did that rant come from? I don't see as how anything I said there about Asylon was negative or disparaging.

Small {insert here} syndrome maybe.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on January 20, 2012, 04:03:24 AM
Small {insert here} syndrome maybe.

What am I supposed to insert?

A passcode?

Why is it small?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on January 20, 2012, 04:19:42 AM
Wee! Free-floating hostility!

Seriously, where the heck did that rant come from? I don't see as how anything I said there about Asylon was negative or disparaging.

 Indirik, over the last few months you have been dropping the 'Future conflict between Asylon and Kabrinskia' mentions ever so often in your messages every time Asylon comes up or is mentioned in a Kabrinskia thread. I don't have any ill will towards Astrum/Kabrinskia nor any free floating hostility, I just find dealing with the leadership of Astrum to be a bit on the 'difficult' side. bah make this shorter because I am not actually angry about anything involving Astrum etc. Take it how you want.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on January 20, 2012, 04:29:58 AM
Indirik, over the last few months you have been dropping the 'Future conflict between Asylon and Kabrinskia' mentions ever so often in your messages every time Asylon comes up or is mentioned in a Kabrinskia thread. I don't have any ill will towards Astrum/Kabrinskia nor any free floating hostility, I just find dealing with the leadership of Astrum to be a bit on the arrogant side
I will freely admit that Brance tends to be arrogant and aloof in his dealings with people. Nor does he answer most letters very quickly.

Quote
Oh and I sent you an IG message a week or so ago and have yet to get a reply
Letter from Glaumring Apasurain (2 days, 21 hours ago)

Not quite a week.

Quote
Can I have the passcode to the cabal?
No. We're a very tight group.

Wait... Which cabal do you want to be a part of? There are quite a few.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on January 20, 2012, 04:32:42 AM
I will freely admit that Brance tends to be arrogant and aloof in his dealings with people. Nor does he answer most letters very quickly.
Letter from Glaumring Apasurain (2 days, 21 hours ago)

Not quite a week.
No. We're a very tight group.

Wait... Which cabal do you want to be a part of? There are quite a few.

Sorry, went and edited my last post because I came off a bit full on, anyways. You have explained your reasoning etc, I understand.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: dustole on February 03, 2012, 01:37:25 AM
Yawn


I'm bored.  Lets go pick a fight somewhere.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Graeth on February 03, 2012, 01:53:54 AM
Yawn


I'm bored.  Lets go pick a fight somewhere.

There should be a big one coming soon enough...
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: vonGenf on February 03, 2012, 05:12:08 AM
Yawn


I'm bored.  Lets go pick a fight somewhere.

I thought you were the one afraid of the Zuma?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on February 03, 2012, 05:21:42 AM
Yawn


I'm bored.  Lets go pick a fight somewhere.

Coming from you, that's a terrifying threat.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: dustole on February 03, 2012, 05:34:48 AM
I thought you were the one afraid of the Zuma?

There is a difference to being afraid and picking a fight that you are unprepared for. 
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: vonGenf on February 03, 2012, 05:40:20 AM
There is a difference to being afraid and picking a fight that you are unprepared for.

Well, prepare then, prepare!
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on February 03, 2012, 06:36:45 AM
Aye, prepare...
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Jhaelen Irsei on February 03, 2012, 11:00:01 AM
Yawn


I'm bored.  Lets go pick a fight somewhere.

Don't you have a brand new realm to take care of? And a couple of not-so-happy-to-see-you neighbours?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: dustole on February 03, 2012, 02:53:01 PM
And a couple of not-so-happy-to-see-you neighbours?

What?  EVERYBODY loves Allison! 
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on February 03, 2012, 03:02:12 PM
I'm bored.  Lets go pick a fight somewhere.
You know that's not how it works, dustole. We need to wait until someone stands up and  puts on the red shirt.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: vonGenf on February 03, 2012, 11:27:38 PM
You know that's not how it works, dustole. We need to wait until someone stands up and  puts on the red shirt.

However, we can print truckloads of red shirts and distribute them at cut prices on all trade routes, to completely corner the shirt market.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on February 04, 2012, 08:18:40 AM
Besides, at least half the time they weren't wearing a red shirt until dustole snuck up behind them and doused them in red paint...
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on February 04, 2012, 08:59:54 AM
I have to wonder where the mooks fit into all this...
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: JPierreD on February 04, 2012, 09:59:53 PM
Yawn


I'm bored.  Lets go pick a fight somewhere.

That's what happens for living in the boring north. In the Lurias fights pick you!
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Zakilevo on February 04, 2012, 10:07:43 PM
You will never get bored in the south :) Actually can't get bored since there will always be a place to fight.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Creed on February 07, 2012, 07:18:53 PM
You know why SA is boring and why the North is boring is because when someone tries to get something started. The horde that is the SA followers just jump on their back and destroys it before it even has a chance to take off.

If people where a little more willing to step out of their characters bubble the north and SA would be way more interesting.

Though I am working on something to liven up the North and SA.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on February 07, 2012, 07:56:02 PM
You know why SA is boring and why the North is boring is because when someone tries to get something started. The horde that is the SA followers just jump on their back and destroys it before it even has a chance to take off.

Start naming things that SA has crushed, where that thing did not willingly put on the red shirt and grab the pokey stick.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: vonGenf on February 07, 2012, 08:13:30 PM
He's talking about his own character who is trying to subvert Morek form the inside. It's a bold attempt... that is not likely to succeed in my opinion, but he is welcome to try. It does liven things up.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on February 07, 2012, 08:40:44 PM
"Morek crushes me every time I do something" is a lot different than "SA crushes everything".

Plenty of people inside SA have done all kinds of things to liven it up. Look at all the stuff that Allison has pulled. She keeps getting bounced up and down the hierarchy like crazy. She was even kicked out, then brought back in, and is an elder with a huge following. And look at Garrett. He challenged a lot of the preconceptions that many members of SA had. With a bit more careful handling, Garret could have accomplished some major changes in SA.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Creed on February 07, 2012, 08:53:05 PM
You all  miss understand.  While yes it gets annoying sometimes when things are not working out they way you want but that's ok if a throw out enough plans and schemes one will eventually work haha.

No I was talking about what this north and SA has become. The North now is just a large Bloc of allied realms with as things stand no chance at any conflict, I just want to see the Bloc broken up a little and have some interesting conflicts.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: vonGenf on February 07, 2012, 08:58:27 PM
No I was talking about what this north and SA has become. The North now is just a large Bloc of allied realms with as things stand no chance at any conflict, I just want to see the Bloc broken up a little and have some interesting conflicts.

But we want to gobble up the south first!  :D
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on February 07, 2012, 11:13:00 PM
Tell you what, for a large gold donation we can send some Lurians north. If they can't get some wars going then no one can. Purchase this month and we can provide 2 ex queens for the price of one.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chenier on February 08, 2012, 01:15:41 AM
Tell you what, for a large gold donation we can send some Lurians north. If they can't get some wars going then no one can. Purchase this month and we can provide 2 ex queens for the price of one.

I'd be willing to pay Lurians to taunt SA or the Zuma...
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on February 08, 2012, 02:50:32 AM
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Arundel on February 08, 2012, 03:02:26 AM
Tell you what, for a large gold donation we can send some Lurians north. If they can't get some wars going then no one can. Purchase this month and we can provide 2 ex queens for the price of one.

Yet you're going to make him pay for shipping? What a terrible deal!
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on February 08, 2012, 03:07:05 AM
Yet you're going to make him pay for shipping? What a terrible deal!

You think that is bad, I wasn't going to include their wardrobes either. Can you imagine the expense of fitting them out with the requisite gowns?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: dustole on February 08, 2012, 03:13:08 AM
Maybe SA and the 'Moot should fight it out for a round or two... 
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on February 08, 2012, 03:18:41 AM
Maybe SA and the 'Moot should fight it out for a round or two...

I heard the Moot thinks SA are all girls and the Stars are just burning collections of gas. PS they said Allison is a crappy dresser.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Velax on February 08, 2012, 04:41:03 AM
They also said her ass always looks fat in that dress.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Zakilevo on February 08, 2012, 05:03:12 AM
Really? I never knew Allison was fat! She sounds too active.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on February 08, 2012, 05:24:43 AM
Yes Allison always struck me more as the skinny bitch type. Maybe even attractive, except for that hole in her head...
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on February 08, 2012, 05:38:28 AM
Yes Allison always struck me more as the skinny bitch type. Maybe even attractive, except for that hole in her head...

That is why the fat arse attracts so much attention.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Zakilevo on February 08, 2012, 05:41:33 AM
Well many medieval noble women were fat anyway. You don't see skinny ones that often in the portraits of the time.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on February 08, 2012, 06:45:08 AM
Maybe SA and the 'Moot should fight it out for a round or two...

We handle Kabrinskia no problem.

If Astrum decides to get all up in our business, things may go south (literally and metaphorically) quite quickly. But Kabrinskia couldn't do much to us, especially now that Asylon isn't a total [email protected]#$, militarily speaking.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on February 08, 2012, 07:09:38 AM
We handle Kabrinskia no problem.

If Astrum decides to get all up in our business, things may go south (literally and metaphorically) quite quickly. But Kabrinskia couldn't do much to us, especially now that Asylon isn't a total [email protected]#$, militarily speaking.

Yeah, notice he said SA, not a single realm.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on February 08, 2012, 08:40:58 AM
We handle Kabrinskia no problem.

If Astrum decides to get all up in our business, things may go south (literally and metaphorically) quite quickly. But Kabrinskia couldn't do much to us, especially now that Asylon isn't a total [email protected]#$, militarily speaking.

Hey now, we are an up and coming [email protected]#$.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on February 08, 2012, 03:43:43 PM
Yeah, notice he said SA, not a single realm.

Oh I know.

I just don't see the Moot starting a fight with SA as an institution. It's more likely mass conversions will begin in the Moot than sudden religious hostilities.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on February 08, 2012, 06:02:45 PM
Oh I know.

I just don't see the Moot starting a fight with SA as an institution. It's more likely mass conversions will begin in the Moot than sudden religious hostilities.

Allison is bored. You should therefore regard yourselves as being in mortal danger by dint of proximity.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Feylonis on February 09, 2012, 07:19:09 PM
7 v 4 would be silly, especially considering the 4 have another very huge 1 sitting on the other side.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on February 09, 2012, 11:37:22 PM
7 v 4 would be silly, especially considering the 4 have another very huge 1 sitting on the other side.

No 7 v 4 would simply be strategically astute.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Feylonis on February 10, 2012, 10:27:49 AM
Not that it would matter, heh. SA will find any reason to fight someone.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on February 10, 2012, 01:55:38 PM
Not just any reason. We've had good reasons to fight all of our wars so far.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Creed on February 10, 2012, 11:19:27 PM
So what is happening in the halls of Sanguis Astroism these days?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on February 11, 2012, 03:40:30 AM
I haven't heard anything in literally months.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: JPierreD on February 11, 2012, 04:07:07 AM
What? A schism, I hear? ;)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Feylonis on February 11, 2012, 04:24:58 AM
Not just any reason. We've had good reasons to fight all of our wars so far.

Yes, good reasons, but some look suspiciously manufactured ;) Like Virovene, or sending in priests to Storms Keep to incite a revolt against Thulsoma, then blaming Thulsoma for the war.

Regardless, it's fun to be antagonistic towards SA.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Zakilevo on February 11, 2012, 04:25:13 AM
What? A schism, I hear? ;)
We already have a guild house for Occidental Astroism. Time to make a temple out of that! YEAH! Go to hell Oriental Astroism!
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Zakilevo on February 11, 2012, 04:26:12 AM
Yes, good reasons, but some look suspiciously manufactured ;) Like Virovene, or sending in priests to Storms Keep to incite a revolt against Thulsoma, then blaming Thulsoma for the war.

Regardless, it's fun to be antagonistic towards SA.

Good reasons to convince followers of SA 8)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on February 11, 2012, 04:25:08 PM
We had other reasons for going after Thulsoma, notably that it was at one point one of our theocracies until Haruka moved in and suddenly proclaimed it to be the long lost Saxon homeland...
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on February 11, 2012, 05:08:25 PM
yay for ripping real life religion into a BM religion...
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on February 12, 2012, 03:06:45 AM
I cringed everytime I heard 'Saxon'... It really should have been dealt with by the Gm's it was just so horrid. If it was even a peaceful wonderful realm it should have been destroyed just for being 'saxon'.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on February 12, 2012, 03:55:34 AM
I cringed everytime I heard 'Saxon'... It really should have been dealt with by the Gm's it was just so horrid. If it was even a peaceful wonderful realm it should have been destroyed just for being 'saxon'.

What reason would the titans or Tom have to destroy it simply for having a "saxon"culture? (not GM's mind they fill a different role)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on February 12, 2012, 05:41:53 AM
If Haruka had the chance to start a realm instead of Thusoma she probably would have called it 'England'.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on February 12, 2012, 06:54:50 PM
If she does, then report it. Titans don't act on rumours of what someone would have done, if they had had the chance to do it.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on February 15, 2012, 04:08:02 PM
Hmm... I wonder what will come of my Death Duel request with Creed.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: dustole on February 15, 2012, 04:30:14 PM
It will likely be ignored.  :)   most death duels seem to go un answered.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on February 15, 2012, 05:29:34 PM
It would be really nice for the duel to occur. Would make for some great RP no matter what happened.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on February 15, 2012, 07:38:56 PM
The only people who offer death duels usually have maxed out trained characters, most people can't afford that or have young characters that wouldn't be able to last in a duel. I have not sen two high level trained duelists go at it before, but I have seen a lot of trained duelists challenge untrained.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Calanar on February 15, 2012, 07:49:55 PM
A few years ago when I was starting out, we still had duel to first blood. I saw a duel to the death on FEI between someone with a sword skill of 70-ish and another with about 65-ish. The 65 won. My oldest character lost his mentor to that duel.

There was also the Atamara Dueling Association. With my sword skill at like 20% I challenged people from 40%-70% to first blood... That was a loooong time ago though.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Dante Silverfire on February 15, 2012, 08:13:24 PM
The only people who offer death duels usually have maxed out trained characters, most people can't afford that or have young characters that wouldn't be able to last in a duel. I have not sen two high level trained duelists go at it before, but I have seen a lot of trained duelists challenge untrained.

Not necessarily true. My character has demanded a duel to the death, but I know for sure his swordfighting is lower if not much lower than his opponent. Depending upon the level of offense given, I believe a death duel should be demanded no matter whether or not your chances of winning are good or not. At least if we want to RP correctly.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on February 15, 2012, 08:23:54 PM
I definitely do not have maxed out skills. My character probably has somewhere around 40% swordsman skill, 50% at most.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on February 15, 2012, 09:56:15 PM
The only people who offer death duels usually have maxed out trained characters, most people can't afford that or have young characters that wouldn't be able to last in a duel. I have not sen two high level trained duelists go at it before, but I have seen a lot of trained duelists challenge untrained.

Sure, if they suck at RP. Duels in general go unanswered and you know why? Because a lot of people assume that only good sword fighters offer duels. Smarter players make use of that to their advantage by offering duels, knowing their is a 80% chance that the action will frighten off the other player.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on February 15, 2012, 10:08:05 PM
Sure, if they suck at RP. Duels in general go unanswered and you know why? Because a lot of people assume that only good sword fighters offer duels. Smarter players make use of that to their advantage by offering duels, knowing their is a 80% chance that the action will frighten off the other player.

That's a hell of a risky strategy. I can see it working fine right up until you mess with the wrong character. Best to limit the number of times you gamble on this.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on February 15, 2012, 10:13:20 PM
That's a hell of a risky strategy. I can see it working fine right up until you mess with the wrong character. Best to limit the number of times you gamble on this.

Then you die, then you make a new character. Not that big of deal. But so far, in the three years I've been doing this, I've never been called out, not once.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on February 15, 2012, 10:42:06 PM
Then you die, then you make a new character. Not that big of deal. But so far, in the three years I've been doing this, I've never been called out, not once.

I'll keep that in mind if one of my characters ever gets challenged to a death duel by a De-Legro  ;)

As for dying I'm not really a fan most of the time. I had a legendary hero once, which was pretty dramatic and cool from the RP perspective the way it went down, but I lost a character with enormous amounts of influence and power, and darn it if I wasn't done enjoying that yet.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on February 15, 2012, 11:09:14 PM
I'll keep that in mind if one of my characters ever gets challenged to a death duel by a De-Legro  ;)

As for dying I'm not really a fan most of the time. I had a legendary hero once, which was pretty dramatic and cool from the RP perspective the way it went down, but I lost a character with enormous amounts of influence and power, and darn it if I wasn't done enjoying that yet.

Just remember that one of my characters actually IS decent with the blade :)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Zakilevo on February 15, 2012, 11:51:53 PM
You just have to be a real man like Duregal. He challenged Carlos with 5% and lost. Nothing to be ashamed of and his honour was still intact.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on February 16, 2012, 12:06:58 AM
You just have to be a real man like Duregal. He challenged Carlos with 5% and lost. Nothing to be ashamed of and his honour was still intact.

Besides, he managed to survive so we can have a rematch.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Creed on February 16, 2012, 01:43:27 AM
I have finally accomplished one of my goals become the most wanted man on a continent. It was not as hard as I thought . Guess you just got to make the right people anger at you. Now I just need to make it rise to the point where it is the biggest bounty ever.  ;D
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Zakilevo on February 16, 2012, 02:04:43 AM
I have finally accomplished one of my goals become the most wanted man on a continent. It was not as hard as I thought . Guess you just got to make the right people anger at you. Now I just need to make it rise to the point where it is the biggest bounty ever.  ;D

Doubt you will accomplish that in a short time. The biggest ever was 7000.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Creed on February 16, 2012, 02:12:43 AM
Doubt you will accomplish that in a short time. The biggest ever was 7000.

Yeah I know but who knows maybe in the long term I can.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Zakilevo on February 16, 2012, 02:14:34 AM
I think once your bounty goes over 1000 people will start to get your head for coins :) It would be interesting to survive all the visitors.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Creed on February 16, 2012, 02:25:05 AM
I think once your bounty goes over 1000 people will start to get your head for coins :) It would be interesting to survive all the visitors.

Would make for some awesome RP if I do.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Dante Silverfire on February 16, 2012, 02:45:54 AM
I have finally accomplished one of my goals become the most wanted man on a continent. It was not as hard as I thought . Guess you just got to make the right people anger at you. Now I just need to make it rise to the point where it is the biggest bounty ever.  ;D

Lets be reasonable. If we're talking about Dwilight here, you are not the most wanted man on the continent. I can name at least 3 characters who are hated more than yours, and mine is one of them.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on February 16, 2012, 02:48:04 AM
Lets be reasonable. If we're talking about Dwilight here, you are not the most wanted man on the continent. I can name at least 3 characters who are hated more than yours, and mine is one of them.

Has Brom pissed off SA though? Without having all of SA after you, you hardly qualify as wanted on the continent at all.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Dante Silverfire on February 16, 2012, 02:50:48 AM
Has Brom pissed off SA though? Without having all of SA after you, you hardly qualify as wanted on the continent at all.

I would say that "most wanted" is not a function purely of the number of those wanting you, but also of the "quantity, or quantitative amount of hate" that they have for you. If "most wanted" became a function of both of these, Brom easily qualifies in the top 5.

Also, Brom certainly fought against SA while in Caerwyn, even if he wasn't one of the major players. Brom has people that like him and people that hate him in nearly every cultural region on the continent.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on February 16, 2012, 03:37:44 AM
Lets be reasonable. If we're talking about Dwilight here, you are not the most wanted man on the continent. I can name at least 3 characters who are hated more than yours, and mine is one of them.

Um, what?

I'm sorry, your character is not "most wanted." "Most wanted" in the Lurias maybe. But I'm not sure you realize how isolated the Lurias are: they're just not really a very relevant part of the larger arena of Dwilight yet, not in the way that the Astroist realms, the Moot, or Aurvandil/Madina are.

I find it very interesting that the Dwilight University has become such a conduit for a Dwilight-wide culture and discussion.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Creed on February 16, 2012, 03:41:59 AM
I stated my character was the most wanted meaning highest bounty. I never claimed to be the most hated they are to different things. 
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on February 16, 2012, 04:07:00 AM
Not necessarily true. My character has demanded a duel to the death, but I know for sure his swordfighting is lower if not much lower than his opponent. Depending upon the level of offense given, I believe a death duel should be demanded no matter whether or not your chances of winning are good or not. At least if we want to RP correctly.

How much would you like bet on this assumption? Have you ever seen your opponent in a tournament or other indication of his skill? You might be surprised at just who is the better swordsman unless you have something more then speculation to back up those claims.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Dante Silverfire on February 16, 2012, 04:08:06 AM
Um, what?

I'm sorry, your character is not "most wanted." "Most wanted" in the Lurias maybe. But I'm not sure you realize how isolated the Lurias are: they're just not really a very relevant part of the larger arena of Dwilight yet, not in the way that the Astroist realms, the Moot, or Aurvandil/Madina are.

I find it very interesting that the Dwilight University has become such a conduit for a Dwilight-wide culture and discussion.

My character is NOT most wanted. I said he was on the list. He's also not been confined to the Lurias. He has been elsewhere, and enemies he has made have also moved to different locations. I'd say each cultural location gets to put at least one noble in the top 5, and in the top 10, would be very interesting to see personally. My character is top 2 in Luria, and possibly mentionable elsewhere, depending on who you ask. Then again, my enemies elsewhere may no longer be playing the game in Dwilight, i simply don't know, due to the way cultural isolation works.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Dante Silverfire on February 16, 2012, 04:08:53 AM
How much would you like bet on this assumption? Have you ever seen your opponent in a tournament or other indication of his skill? You might be surprised at just who is the better swordsman unless you have something more then speculation to back up those claims.

I can 100% guarantee that Brom does not have a greater skill than his opponent. Although it is possible they have the same skill.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on February 16, 2012, 04:10:18 AM
I can 100% guarantee that Brom does not have a greater skill than his opponent. Although it is possible they have the same skill.

Again you are assuming. Firstly you are assuming that because you use cavalry and didn't explicitly train the skill, that yours has never increased. Secondly you are assuming that both characters started at the same base skill level. You can't 100% guarantee it cause you have no idea what level your opponents skill started at or what gains he has made.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Dante Silverfire on February 16, 2012, 04:21:04 AM
Again you are assuming. Firstly you are assuming that because you use cavalry and didn't explicitly train the skill, that yours has never increased. Secondly you are assuming that both characters started at the same base skill level. You can't 100% guarantee it cause you have no idea what level your opponents skill started at or what gains he has made.

If I know what mine is, and its the lowest you can have then yes I do. But, perhaps I'm just wrong on how the code works. (But I do know how much Brom has even though he hasn't trained it).
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on February 16, 2012, 04:28:07 AM
If I know what mine is, and its the lowest you can have then yes I do. But, perhaps I'm just wrong on how the code works. (But I do know how much Brom has even though he hasn't trained it).

Or perhaps you just don't know as much as you think you do.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Dante Silverfire on February 16, 2012, 05:27:26 AM
Or perhaps you just don't know as much as you think you do.

Seems to be the case quite often. But we're off topic yet again. At any rate, the point of the matter is that not everyone that requests duels to the death has a high swordfighting and that doing so solely for RP reasons is the best way to do so, even if one may lose or even has a high likelihood of losing. To not do so because "a character might die" just seems wrong in my opinion.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on February 16, 2012, 05:29:40 AM
My character is NOT most wanted. I said he was on the list. He's also not been confined to the Lurias. He has been elsewhere, and enemies he has made have also moved to different locations. I'd say each cultural location gets to put at least one noble in the top 5, and in the top 10, would be very interesting to see personally. My character is top 2 in Luria, and possibly mentionable elsewhere, depending on who you ask. Then again, my enemies elsewhere may no longer be playing the game in Dwilight, i simply don't know, due to the way cultural isolation works.

Hmm....

I don't think anybody from the Moot realms would make the list. :/ We don't really make many enemies.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on February 16, 2012, 05:33:30 AM
Has Brom pissed off SA though? Without having all of SA after you, you hardly qualify as wanted on the continent at all.

We mostly don't even know who he is, let alone why he should be hated. The Lurias were almost entirely off of our radar until Solari recently decided to introduce SA to Solaria. I now eagerly anticipate us getting sucked into Lurian intrigues at some future time. Heck, with Madina undergoing a deathbed conversion at the moment it's suddenly within the realm of possibility that SA will permeate the entire continent, though I'm sure the south is unlikely to ever be as committed to it as the northern realms are.

Hmm....

I don't think anybody from the Moot realms would make the list. :/ We don't really make many enemies.

If anyone from the Moot's going to pull it off it will be Hireshmont.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Dante Silverfire on February 16, 2012, 05:38:51 AM
We mostly don't even know who he is, let alone why he should be hated. The Lurias were almost entirely off of our radar until Solari recently decided to introduce SA to Solaria. I now eagerly anticipate us getting sucked into Lurian intrigues at some future time. Heck, with Madina undergoing a deathbed conversion at the moment it's suddenly within the realm of possibility that SA will permeate the entire continent, though I'm sure the south is unlikely to ever be as committed to it as the northern realms are.

If anyone from the Moot's going to pull it off it will be Hireshmont.

If you want to get sucked into Lurian intrigues you better help Brom stay in the Lurias. Otherwise, you'll lose at least 50% of your intrigue right there. In fact, I'm not sure how much intrigue has happened in the Lurias that Brom didn't have at least some small finger in. (Very few players would actually know the # of stuff he's been involved in, so consider that if you want to disagree with this statement)

Anyway, yes it seems SA has finally managed to start reaching into all of Dwilight. Just means they'll implode ever earlier.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on February 16, 2012, 05:46:07 AM
If you want to get sucked into Lurian intrigues you better help Brom stay in the Lurias. Otherwise, you'll lose at least 50% of your intrigue right there.

You need to give us an IC reason first.

Anyway, yes it seems SA has finally managed to start reaching into all of Dwilight. Just means they'll implode ever earlier.

Perhaps, but won't that be fun if it happens? Even more fun the longer it takes.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Dante Silverfire on February 16, 2012, 05:47:34 AM
You need to give us an IC reason first.

Perhaps, but won't that be fun if it happens? Even more fun the longer it takes.

That can be arranged. I can also arrange the whole piss off SA in one go thing as well. Still working out the details. As far as I can tell, anything negative against the prophet would do the trick.

And absolutely yes.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on February 16, 2012, 06:21:30 AM
If anyone from the Moot's going to pull it off it will be Hireshmont.

But he's so charming....
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Dante Silverfire on February 16, 2012, 07:06:56 AM
But he's so charming....

So is Brom...I honestly have no idea why he is hated...
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: dustole on February 16, 2012, 07:17:11 AM
I have no idea why anyone would hate Allison.   ::)

I think her infamy is mostly limited to the SA arena though. 
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on February 16, 2012, 07:20:19 AM
I have no idea why anyone would hate Allison.   ::)

I think her infamy is mostly limited to the SA arena though.

Envy Dustole, it is just sad sad envy.

After all not every noble can have such a curvy rear end.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on February 16, 2012, 08:00:07 AM
Envy Dustole, it is just sad sad envy.

After all not every noble can have such a curvy rear end.

I think I just threw up a little in my mouth :o
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on February 16, 2012, 02:32:45 PM
I find it very interesting that the Dwilight University has become such a conduit for a Dwilight-wide culture and discussion.
I'm finding the University to be an extreme disappointment. As soon as I return to Libidizedd, I'm fairly certain I will leave it, and tear down the guildhouse.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on February 16, 2012, 02:56:42 PM
That can be arranged. I can also arrange the whole piss off SA in one go thing as well. Still working out the details. As far as I can tell, anything negative against the prophet would do the trick.
I think that you'd find it a bit harder to do that than you think it would be. Quite a few followers of SA have a very pragmatic view of things.  Especially when it comes to non-believers. We can recognize when we're being provoked n purpose. And we're quite used to people trying to manipulate us.

There are, of course, certain hotheads (Branthorpe :P ) who will instantly start foaming at the mouth at any opportunity.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Feylonis on February 16, 2012, 03:13:48 PM
I don't know, I'm sure saying Mathurin had a bad hair day can incite a crusade.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: vonGenf on February 16, 2012, 03:19:03 PM
I'm finding the University to be an extreme disappointment. As soon as I return to Libidizedd, I'm fairly certain I will leave it, and tear down the guildhouse.

Why? It's mostly harmless, and it is probably the guild with the most widely disseminated membership.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on February 16, 2012, 04:06:06 PM
The latest round of ridiculous discussions about theocracies irritated me. But I can live with that. Knowing how the University was founded, I expected it to be nothing more than a ego-trip for Bowie. I wasn't disappointed. But, again, I can live with that.

I think what really killed it was this comment: " I would ask you to refrain your butt kissing to the halls of SA if you could." This was a comment from a council member in one realm. The guild elders took no action whatsoever to censure or curb such absolutely ridiculous behavior. That comment, and the exchanges over the duel challenges which followed, and the way the whole thing is handled really kills it for me. The fact that the guild lets such things occur, and doesn't do anything about it. Seriously? The general of a realm tells the duke of another realm to stop kissing ass, then says he won't duel over it because there's no personal gain in it for him, and no one in the guild even blinks? For me, that just kills the entire atmosphere of the guild, and the game. It's the same kind of crap that made me give up leading SA, and dropping all the way down to an aspirant rank.

If I hadn't already been traveling away from Libidizedd when the whole thing started, I probably would have already left and torn down the guildhouse. I just don't have any patience for that kind of crap. It's not just that people do it, but that everyone else let's them get away with it. People that act like that should be kicked out and ostracized.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: vonGenf on February 16, 2012, 04:22:01 PM
The latest round of ridiculous discussions about theocracies irritated me. But I can live with that. Knowing how the University was founded, I expected it to be nothing more than a ego-trip for Bowie. I wasn't disappointed. But, again, I can live with that.

I think what really killed it was this comment: " I would ask you to refrain your butt kissing to the halls of SA if you could." This was a comment from a council member in one realm. The guild elders took no action whatsoever to censure or curb such absolutely ridiculous behavior. That comment, and the exchanges over the duel challenges which followed, and the way the whole thing is handled really kills it for me. The fact that the guild lets such things occur, and doesn't do anything about it. Seriously? The general of a realm tells the duke of another realm to stop kissing ass, then says he won't duel over it because there's no personal gain in it for him, and no one in the guild even blinks? For me, that just kills the entire atmosphere of the guild, and the game. It's the same kind of crap that made me give up leading SA, and dropping all the way down to an aspirant rank.

If I hadn't already been traveling away from Libidizedd when the whole thing started, I probably would have already left and torn down the guildhouse. I just don't have any patience for that kind of crap. It's not just that people do it, but that everyone else let's them get away with it. People that act like that should be kicked out and ostracized.

Well, people did blink, there were a few duel challenges. I don't think anyone would be extremely unhappy to see the duels occur. Now, if the recipient is too much of a coward to accept the challenges.....
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Creed on February 16, 2012, 04:29:00 PM
Well, people did blink, there were a few duel challenges. I don't think anyone would be extremely unhappy to see the duels occur. Now, if the recipient is too much of a coward to accept the challenges.....


Well before you all go calling me a coward I did accept one death duel in private and am waiting for a response. So don't go around calling people cowards if you dont know all the facts.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: vonGenf on February 16, 2012, 04:37:00 PM
Well before you all go calling me a coward I did accept one death duel in private and am waiting for a response. So don't go around calling people cowards if you dont know all the facts.

Sorry, I meant the comment as a semi-IC taunt. I have no problem with you accepting or not the challenges. I've refused challenges before myself (and people can legitimately call that character a coward).
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Creed on February 16, 2012, 04:40:34 PM
Sorry, I meant the comment as a semi-IC taunt. I have no problem with you accepting or not the challenges. I've refused challenges before myself (and people can legitimately call that character a coward).

Well My character sword skill is pretty high. One of the people that challenged me to the death duel was my own cousin in real life. lol
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on February 16, 2012, 04:40:51 PM
The person making these statements was challenged by a couple people to death duels. He replied that he wouldn't accept the challenges, regardless of the insults and cries of cowardice, unless he could get some personal gain out of it. Something like "unless I can personally profit from killing you" or something like that. The fact that the leaders of the guild did not take issue with this is unacceptable to me. There were just a few calls from some members to "take it to personal messages". Nothing like "It is unacceptable for such a prestigious noble, a council member no less, to display such ignoble behavior, and it will not be tolerated in the University." Which, to me, is the minimum that the guild should do.

This is not "mostly harmless". I consider this type of playing to be detrimental to the game atmosphere. It is behavior that should not be allowed out of any noble, let alone the council member of a realm. To insult a foreign duke in such a manner and refuse to accept the resulting multiple duel challenges. The fact that the Dwilight University is such a widespread, multi-realm guild only makes it worse. The improper behavior is therefore more widespread.

It is up to the players to uphold the atmosphere of the game. Since the DU appears to me to be detrimental to the atmosphere of the game, and personally unacceptable to Brance, I'm going to remove it from Libidizedd. Brance hasn't decided yet if he will ban it from Astrum completely. It will be a few weeks until I can return to Libidizedd to do it, though. We'll see if the DU manages to redeem itself before then.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: vonGenf on February 16, 2012, 04:46:11 PM
Well My character sword skill is pretty high. One of the people that challenged me to the death duel was my own cousin in real life. lol

Was? I had no idea you took BM so seriously.....  ;)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Creed on February 16, 2012, 04:49:56 PM
The person making these statements was challenged by a couple people to death duels. He replied that he wouldn't accept the challenges, regardless of the insults and cries of cowardice, unless he could get some personal gain out of it. Something like "unless I can personally profit from killing you" or something like that. The fact that the leaders of the guild did not take issue with this is unacceptable to me. There were just a few calls from some members to "take it to personal messages". Nothing like "It is unacceptable for such a prestigious noble, a council member no less, to display such ignoble behavior, and it will not be tolerated in the University." Which, to me, is the minimum that the guild should do.

This is not "mostly harmless". I consider this type of playing to be detrimental to the game atmosphere. It is behavior that should not be allowed out of any noble, let alone the council member of a realm. To insult a foreign duke in such a manner and refuse to accept the resulting multiple duel challenges. The fact that the Dwilight University is such a widespread, multi-realm guild only makes it worse. The improper behavior is therefore more widespread.

It is up to the players to uphold the atmosphere of the game. Since the DU appears to me to be detrimental to the atmosphere of the game, and personally unacceptable to Brance, I'm going to remove it from Libidizedd. Brance hasn't decided yet if he will ban it from Astrum completely. It will be a few weeks until I can return to Libidizedd to do it, though. We'll see if the DU manages to redeem itself before then.

First off some of the death duel challenges made no since and would not happen in real life I got one from  a marshal that I have never even spoke to and the fact is I cant duel every single person that wanted to death duel me I would have to go all over the continent.

Indirik like I stated I did accept a death duel with the  main person I insulted. I am still waiting for a response from him.

   
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Creed on February 16, 2012, 04:50:41 PM
Was? I had no idea you took BM so seriously.....  ;)

lol still is.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: vonGenf on February 16, 2012, 04:52:05 PM
This is not "mostly harmless". I consider this type of playing to be detrimental to the game atmosphere. It is behavior that should not be allowed out of any noble, let alone the council member of a realm. To insult a foreign duke in such a manner and refuse to accept the resulting multiple duel challenges. The fact that the Dwilight University is such a widespread, multi-realm guild only makes it worse. The improper behavior is therefore more widespread.

Hum, I see your point. Pierre was pretty happy to see the duel challenge, and though it was warranted. His main concern was to stop the improper behaviour within the University ("Have your duel, but have it outside.")

I didn't see it as a role of the DU to monitor who accepts duel challenges and who doesn't among students. I do try to maintain a separation between who you are in the "real" world and who you are in the University. This is a courtyard brawl between students that professors should not get embroiled in it to decide who is right and who isn't. But it is true that that's not very medieval: a Duke is a Duke, and should be treated as such everywhere.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on February 16, 2012, 04:55:25 PM
Well before you all go calling me a coward I did accept one death duel in private and am waiting for a response. So don't go around calling people cowards if you dont know all the facts.
Wait...


And you're criticizing people for not knowing all the facts? How did you expect them to know that you really did accept one duel? Of course they're calling you a coward. And rightly so. If you expect people to know "all the facts", then you had best make the effort to tell them the facts, or don't be surprised when they don't.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Creed on February 16, 2012, 04:59:57 PM
Wait...

  • The insult was public.
  • The multiple challenges were public.
  • The multiple refusals were public.
  • The single acceptance was private.

And you're criticizing people for not knowing all the facts? How did you expect them to know that you really did accept one duel? Of course they're calling you a coward. And rightly so. If you expect people to know "all the facts", then you had best make the effort to tell them the facts, or don't be surprised when they don't.

I said in public I would duel him if I received his city If I won  not my fault if you did not read that. I am still waiting for him to answer. I sent him a another letter to him last night to see if he is willing to accept.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on February 16, 2012, 05:02:03 PM
I didn't see it as a role of the DU to monitor who accepts duel challenges and who doesn't among students.
It is the role of the Elders of the guild to maintain decorum and civility among their members.

Quote
I do try to maintain a separation between who you are in the "real" world and who you are in the University. This is a courtyard brawl between students that professors should not get embroiled in it to decide who is right and who isn't.
In a way, I agree. They should not step in and say determine who is the right and who the wrong. But they *should* step in and say "This behavior is unacceptable in the University." The Elders need to step in and stop the brawl, and make it clear that brawling isn't allowed.

Quote
But it is true that that's not very medieval: a Duke is a Duke, and should be treated as such everywhere.
I agree.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on February 16, 2012, 05:05:26 PM
I said in public I would duel him if I received his city If I won. not my fault if you did not read that
I did read that. It changes nothing. You refused a duel of honor. A duel for profit is not a duel of honor. I would consider this extremely ignoble behavior. After such a display as Creed exhibited in the University, I would almost certainly demand that such a person be banned from Astrum.

The point still remains: all the insults, challenges, and refusals were public. So far as anyone knows, that's all that's happened.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Creed on February 16, 2012, 05:07:03 PM
I did read that. It changes nothing. You refused a duel of honor. A duel for profit is not a duel of honor. I would consider this extremely ignoble behavior. After such a display as Creed exhibited in the University, I would almost certainly demand that such a person be banned from Astrum.

The point still remains: all the insults, challenges, and refusals were public. So far as anyone knows, that's all that's happened.

A duel for honor yes but my honor was never insulted. So why should I duel to the death for nothing? Also the way I play my character is my choice and who are you to tell me how to play? 
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: vonGenf on February 16, 2012, 05:13:04 PM
A duel for honor yes but my honor was never insulted. So why should I duel to the death for nothing?

You insulted a nobleman. That nobleman demanded a duel. By refusing to duel, yet refusing to apologize, you imply that your words mean nothing. By accepting the duel, you would gain recognition: people would know that when you insult someone, you really mean it, and are ready to back your words with action. By refusing to duel, people can safely throw you to the bin of history. They know you bark but won't bite.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on February 16, 2012, 05:29:35 PM
You insulted someone else. You know that you insulted someone else, and did it specifically because it was insulting. And they responded with a duel challenge. They felt that it was such a horrible insult that they decided it was worth putting their life on the line to prove it. Multiple people did so. At least one of the ones who challenged was even of equivalent station: A duke and a general. So there's no grounds for refusal based on social station. (i.e. a 17 yr old nobody challenging a king.)  You claim that your character is an expert swordsman, so there's no grounds for refusal based on a swordmaster challenging someone who doesn't know which end of the sword has the pointy bits.

Why should Creed duel? Because if he doesn't, then everyone in the University will consider him a coward. Since there's no obvious reason why he shouldn't duel after having done what he did, they have no other choice.

So, yeah, you don't have to duel. That's your choice. I'm just telling you what will happen if you don't. Your character will forever after be know to everyone in the Dwilight University as someone ignorant, loudmouthed coward.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Creed on February 16, 2012, 05:36:12 PM
You insulted someone else. You know that you insulted someone else, and did it specifically because it was insulting. And they responded with a duel challenge. They felt that it was such a horrible insult that they decided it was worth putting their life on the line to prove it. Multiple people did so. At least one of the ones who challenged was even of equivalent station: A duke and a general. So there's no grounds for refusal based on social station. (i.e. a 17 yr old nobody challenging a king.)  You claim that your character is an expert swordsman, so there's no grounds for refusal based on a swordmaster challenging someone who doesn't know which end of the sword has the pointy bits.

Why should Creed duel? Because if he doesn't, then everyone in the University will consider him a coward. Since there's no obvious reason why he shouldn't duel after having done what he did, they have no other choice.

So, yeah, you don't have to duel. That's your choice. I'm just telling you what will happen if you don't. Your character will forever after be know to everyone in the Dwilight University as someone ignorant, loudmouthed coward.

Well I can see your point now that you put it that way. Well I accepted his challenge so it is up to Branthorpe to accept it or not. If I hurt the game for you I am sorry was never my intention.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Velax on February 16, 2012, 05:54:19 PM
Yeah...even if Branthorpe doesn't accept, you're still the one that will be seen as a coward.

"Man, you can't drive for [email protected]#$! And your girlfriend's ugly!"

"Yeah? Let's race then!"

"Okay, but if I win, I get your house."

".....what?"
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on February 16, 2012, 06:06:37 PM
You could always report it as an SMA issue if you feel that strongly about it.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Creed on February 16, 2012, 06:10:20 PM
Yeah...even if Branthorpe doesn't accept, you're still the one that will be seen as a coward.



Dont know how My character will been seen as the coward if I accept the duel and he chooses not to go through with it but whatever not really a big deal.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on February 16, 2012, 08:09:12 PM
Well I can see your point now that you put it that way. Well I accepted his challenge so it is up to Branthorpe to accept it or not. If I hurt the game for you I am sorry was never my intention.
Thank you for your change of heart.

To be clear, I'm not mad at you, or your character. You are correct in that you are allowed to play your character however you want. I wasn't trying to state that your character's actions alone soured me on the whole DU. One character acting in such a manner is no big deal. There are character with varying degrees of honor, situational ethics, ambition and sense of justice, etc. If we all thought the same, then life would be boring.

Rather, my issue with the whole situation is the way the group handled it. Just about everyone just shrugged it off. "Meh, whatever... Just take it outside." That is the situation that I really don't see as acceptable behavior from the group at large. But,hey, maybe the attitude displayed by Creed is shared by all the elders in the University. In which this is an organization Brance doesn't want to be associated with.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on February 16, 2012, 08:14:14 PM
You could always report it as an SMA issue if you feel that strongly about it.
That is an option, yes. But I don't have an issue with the way Creed handled it. As a player I think it's an interesting way to take it. My character finds it despicable. But then, Brance is often accused of having a stick up his ass. I don't think that Creed's actions deserve an SMA report.

What I find most disturbing is the casual acceptance of it, and even some support for it, among the entire guild. Even if I wasn't pretty sure the answer would come back as "Handle it IC", how would you report an entire guild as an SMA violation?  ??? So, I'm going to handle it IC. If Vellos hadn't brought up the DU, I wouldn't even be discussing it here.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: vonGenf on February 16, 2012, 08:50:14 PM
"Meh, whatever... Just take it outside."

I think you're a bit harsh here. People were insulted. They responded by issuing duel challenges. The response of the Elders was, really, "Go and duel". It is an appropriate way to deal with insults.

If Branthorpe had not issued a duel challenge and asked for the student to be expelled, my reaction could have been different.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on February 16, 2012, 09:52:40 PM
I think you're a bit harsh here. People were insulted. They responded by issuing duel challenges.

The response of the Elders was, really, "Go and duel". It is an appropriate way to deal with insults.
No, that's not the response of the Elders at all. There are three Elders in Dwilight University:

So, one of three elders (Bowie) ignored it, one (Pierre) said "sure, duel, but do it elsewhere", and the third (Moritz) just wished Creed had been more inventive and poetic in insulting Branthorpe, since "poetic insults are felt much more deeply then direct base attacks." (direct quote) Not a single one criticized Creed for his direct insult on a prestigious duke.

In any case, issuing the challenge in the DU channel was absolutely proper, because that's the channel in which the insult was given.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Zakilevo on February 16, 2012, 09:59:18 PM
Really? He called the prophet a student? He must be out of his mind. A crusade against him will teach him a lesson.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Dante Silverfire on February 16, 2012, 10:01:05 PM
Really? He called the prophet a student? He must be out of his mind. A crusade against him will teach him a lesson.

His title is "student" within the Dwilight University. Depending upon how the DU is RP'ed this could be either extremely appropriate, or simply insulting. I tend towards the appropriate side of the spectrum. Because as was brought up, if you're a non-believer "who cares about this prophet guy anyway">
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Zakilevo on February 16, 2012, 10:05:42 PM
And since there are over 100 nobles believing the stars, it will be insulting to them. It would be interesting to see how the prophet will react. Too bad indirik will close down the only university guildhouse in Astrum.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on February 16, 2012, 10:08:39 PM
Really? He called the prophet a student? He must be out of his mind. A crusade against him will teach him a lesson.

Quote from: Moritz Von Igelfeld
Your religious mantra concerning the prophet does nothing to advance learning and by singling out a particular student for special praise you limit that students ability to engage in the conversation as an equal.

As if the Holy Prophet of Sanguis Astroism could debate theology as an equal with, oh, anyone. The whole tone and content of Moritz's was actually a rather clever insult.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: vonGenf on February 16, 2012, 10:19:57 PM
  • Moritz - His response was in support of Creed, but wished Creed had put a bit more effort into his rebuke. Then he called the Holy Prophet of Sanguis Astroism, who is probably the most powerful man in the entire damn world, a mere "student", told Branthorpe to stop kissing ass (paraphrased), and called Branthorpe petty, cowardly, and murderous (not paraphrased) for issuing the challenge.

Quote
Regarding your response to Sir Creed, what has death ever solved? Do you feel so degraded by his words that you now must never see his face again? Are you truly so petty? Forgiveness is a far better course to take and shows more courage than your murderous intentions. Trust me, if he foolishly puts his pen to paper again without first putting his words to thought, his stay in these halls will be in jeopardy.

Sounds pretty paraphrased to me....

But, I see Brance's point. But I don't think your point is so strong as to warrant your statement "The Dwilight University is damaging BM's atmosphere" (yes, I can paraphrase too). But if you were to raise it IC, I'd see Brance's point.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on February 16, 2012, 10:30:31 PM
Oh, it will be handled IC, one way or another.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on February 16, 2012, 10:48:03 PM
Sounds pretty paraphrased to me....

But, I see Brance's point. But I don't think your point is so strong as to warrant your statement "The Dwilight University is damaging BM's atmosphere" (yes, I can paraphrase too). But if you were to raise it IC, I'd see Brance's point.

If such attitudes were the exception, it would not be damaging. However they aren't, and to be honest it is up to the more knowledgeable and long term players to try and correct this attitude. "Death solving nothing" is a pretty modern concept, but it is all too common throughout BM and Dwilight.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on February 17, 2012, 12:16:04 AM
As if the Holy Prophet of Sanguis Astroism could debate theology as an equal with, oh, anyone. The whole tone and content of Moritz's was actually a rather clever insult.

FWIW, as a devoted vulgarity-reporter myself, I can testify that at least one other person has been clicking the vulgarity button quite a bit on Dwilight University messages recently.

IG, IC processes are available, and do seem to be getting some use.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on February 17, 2012, 12:28:41 AM
I've tried once or twice, but someone has been beating me to it.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Perth on February 17, 2012, 12:45:43 AM
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Perth on February 17, 2012, 12:55:11 AM
Perhaps if the University truly lacks in living up to everything it really could be (and I think it has in some ways, the wiki stuff and essays, etc are pretty neat) it is time that some competing Universities were founded?

Especially for Sanguis Astroism its a golden opportunity to get some cool stuff going. Weren't most medieval universities very much Church run organizations anyways? At least founded and funded by them?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on February 17, 2012, 02:17:57 AM
Perhaps if the University truly lacks in living up to everything it really could be (and I think it has in some ways, the wiki stuff and essays, etc are pretty neat) it is time that some competing Universities were founded?

Especially for Sanguis Astroism its a golden opportunity to get some cool stuff going. Weren't most medieval universities very much Church run organizations anyways? At least founded and funded by them?

I've many times thought a Seminary of sorts would be a neat thing for SA.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Ironsides on February 17, 2012, 04:29:45 AM
What's wrong with dueling over insults? I don't get the issue here. Then again, like the incident in the University, I've come late to this discussion....
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Dante Silverfire on February 17, 2012, 04:33:04 AM
I've many times thought a Seminary of sorts would be a neat thing for SA.

Does SA really need more propaganda/indoctrination?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on February 17, 2012, 04:35:37 AM
Perhaps if the University truly lacks in living up to everything it really could be (and I think it has in some ways, the wiki stuff and essays, etc are pretty neat) it is time that some competing Universities were founded?
If only there were 96 hours in a day... I already have my finger in more pies than I can handle.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on February 17, 2012, 04:36:18 AM
Does SA really need more propaganda/indoctrination?
Yes.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Dante Silverfire on February 17, 2012, 04:48:56 AM
Yes.

Well as long as we're clear.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on February 17, 2012, 04:59:30 AM
Not everyone loves SA, thus yes, SA needs more propaganda, or more successful propaganda, or some cruise missiles/unmanned drones.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Dante Silverfire on February 17, 2012, 05:01:20 AM
Not everyone loves SA, thus yes, SA needs more propaganda, or more successful propaganda, or some cruise missiles/unmanned drones.

"So Sayeth we all"

"So Sayeth we all," the congregation repeats...
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: JPierreD on February 17, 2012, 06:16:28 AM
As if the Holy Prophet of Sanguis Astroism could debate theology as an equal with, oh, anyone. The whole tone and content of Moritz's was actually a rather clever insult.

Not for an Astroist, but for non-Astroists his word has little spiritual authority.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: egamma on February 17, 2012, 06:18:14 AM
Not for an Astroist, but for non-Astroists his word has little spiritual authority.

Think of him like the Pope. Even if you're Mormon or Jewish or (insert non-Catholic here), you gotta give the leader of a billion people the respect he's due.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Dante Silverfire on February 17, 2012, 06:20:13 AM
Think of him like the Pope. Even if you're Mormon or Jewish or (insert non-Catholic here), you gotta give the leader of a billion people the respect he's due.

Respect, and deference to his ideas are two vastly different things.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: egamma on February 17, 2012, 06:21:18 AM
Respect, and deference to his ideas are two vastly different things.

Calling the Pope a "student" wouldn't go over very well.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: JPierreD on February 17, 2012, 06:29:48 AM
Calling the Pope a "student" wouldn't go over very well.

Don't know about the context in the DU, nor I was arguing about his political power. It would be foolish to make enemies with such a powerful man, unless you really profited from such. The point I was making is that he can talk about theology with superiority to any Astroist, but the same does not applies to non-astroists. The Pope cannot hope to have his word followed with more reverence by a Jew than any random Rabbi. The Jew might possibly consider him an enlightened person, he could fear his power, but ultimately he thinks the Pope is wrong and disagrees on at least a few things.

So, yes, the Prophet of Sanguis Astroism could discuss theology in the same level of many people. Specially if it was abstract non-SA specific theology. Which I don't know if it is the case, of course, but assume it since it's the DU and not the Church of SA.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on February 17, 2012, 06:38:55 AM
Are you guys forgetting that Moritz is also a prophet of his own religion?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Zakilevo on February 17, 2012, 06:40:15 AM
Are you guys forgetting that Moritz is also a prophet of his own religion?

Perfect. We can shove a stick up in his... and show him who is the real prophet.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on February 17, 2012, 06:48:37 AM
You all miss the point. In character the prophet of the continents largest, most powerful religion is likely going to have a massive reason to believe they have superior theological knowledge. Would people from other religions agree? Probably not but by the same token he, and the religion he heads aren't going to think that anyone can argue theology on a equal footing, which was the point of the original post. To call such a figure a mere "student" in term of theology is a massive insult to the Prophet and the religion in general. This isn't the modern age remember, it is unlikely that most religions consider others to have any validity, or respect the knowledge of their priests.

Are you guys forgetting that Moritz is also a prophet of his own religion?

Yup the smalles religion on the island by all metrics, fewest temples, fewest noble followers, fewest peasant followers. Chances are it barely even registers on the radar of greater SA.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: JPierreD on February 17, 2012, 07:20:22 AM
You all miss the point. In character the prophet of the continents largest, most powerful religion is likely going to have a massive reason to believe they have superior theological knowledge. Would people from other religions agree? Probably not but by the same token he, and the religion he heads aren't going to think that anyone can argue theology on a equal footing, which was the point of the original post. To call such a figure a mere "student" in term of theology is a massive insult to the Prophet and the religion in general. This isn't the modern age remember, it is unlikely that most religions consider others to have any validity, or respect the knowledge of their priests.

The whole Dwilight University and its foundations are pretty modern themselves. The institution promotes such kind of values, so it would be expected that in the institution other's points of view would be, if not considered, at least respected. It may be not very medieval, but nor is the guild. Who would have thought about a theology department in the middle ages with Catholics, Orthodox, Jews and Muslims for example? It would be madness at least, or deep heresy at worst.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on February 17, 2012, 07:26:58 AM
The whole Dwilight University and its foundations are pretty modern themselves. The institution promotes such kind of values, so it would be expected that in the institution other's points of view would be, if not considered, at least respected. It may be not very medieval, but nor is the guild. Who would have thought about a theology department in the middle ages with Catholics, Orthodox, Jews and Muslims for example? It would be madness at least, or deep heresy at worst.

That is like saying modern scientist all respect each others views and opinions.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on February 17, 2012, 07:41:00 AM
It would be madness at least, or deep heresy at worst.

Or, it would be some sections of Abbasid Baghdad or parts of Moorish Spain.

Regarding the Prophet and cross-religious boundaries... I guess nobody here has done much interfaith work IRL? Because if you have, you know that if two faiths are both committed to the idea that their teachings relate to the "Real, Ultimate Nature of Things" then they will take a powerful interest in each others' teachings, and tend to regard each others' highest figures as intellectual authorities (though not necessarily right for that). Consider that many Christian thinkers cited Avicenna, and much Ottoman law cited cases from Orthodox ecumenical rules as authoritative.

The idea that, in a medieval setting, members of one faith would just say that the leader of another faith is bogus without anything to say or without a perspective on the Real, Ultimate Nature of Things is not very tenable, unless there is a strong political motivation to make such a claim. But from a purely intellectual position, Medieval Christian thinkers may have thought their Muslim counterparts were implicitly worshipping demons, but they at least thought they were worshipping very smart demons with lots of interesting knowledge, a la Faustus.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Perth on February 17, 2012, 08:17:49 AM
I've many times thought a Seminary of sorts would be a neat thing for SA.

Or Maroccidental U.  ;)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: vonGenf on February 17, 2012, 09:20:56 AM
Calling the Pope a "student" wouldn't go over very well.

Unless the Pope decided to enroll in a University, and requested to be a student, which is what Mathurin did.

Did you notice how the position of Dean of Theology is vacant? Did you notice how extremely easy it is to be given a Dean position? You basically only have to write something with some original idea in it. That's pretty much it. Mathurin would get it the blink of the eye if he only tried. Branthorpe could get it. Anyone could get it, really.

(Though probably not Creed at this point.....)

Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on February 17, 2012, 11:08:42 AM
Or, it would be some sections of Abbasid Baghdad or parts of Moorish Spain.

Regarding the Prophet and cross-religious boundaries... I guess nobody here has done much interfaith work IRL? Because if you have, you know that if two faiths are both committed to the idea that their teachings relate to the "Real, Ultimate Nature of Things" then they will take a powerful interest in each others' teachings, and tend to regard each others' highest figures as intellectual authorities (though not necessarily right for that). Consider that many Christian thinkers cited Avicenna, and much Ottoman law cited cases from Orthodox ecumenical rules as authoritative.

The idea that, in a medieval setting, members of one faith would just say that the leader of another faith is bogus without anything to say or without a perspective on the Real, Ultimate Nature of Things is not very tenable, unless there is a strong political motivation to make such a claim. But from a purely intellectual position, Medieval Christian thinkers may have thought their Muslim counterparts were implicitly worshipping demons, but they at least thought they were worshipping very smart demons with lots of interesting knowledge, a la Faustus.


Which was the whole point. There is a big difference between thinking another religion has aspects or teachings that are worthwhile as compared to thinking another religion is producing theology the equal of your own faith and prophets who are the equally as valid as your own religious leaders.

I think of it in a similar way to how Christians revere the Jewish prophets, but place Jesus above them all, or how the Muslims believe Jesus was a messenger of god while rejecting the claims of his divinity and in turn place Muhammad above him.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on February 17, 2012, 04:59:47 PM
Those are all Abrahamic faiths that derive from a single common theology, that of Judaism. As such, they have a great deal in common. Both Christianity and Judaism, for example, teach the Old Testament. Possibly Islam as well, though I'm not sure about that - after all, Islam teaches that Muhammad was simply the last in a long line of Prophets that includes Jesus and the Old Testament Prophets. I think that your argument would not fare as well were you to use Christianity and Hinduism, or Judaism and Buddhism.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on February 17, 2012, 06:47:07 PM
Those are all Abrahamic faiths that derive from a single common theology, that of Judaism. As such, they have a great deal in common. Both Christianity and Judaism, for example, teach the Old Testament. Possibly Islam as well, though I'm not sure about that - after all, Islam teaches that Muhammad was simply the last in a long line of Prophets that includes Jesus and the Old Testament Prophets. I think that your argument would not fare as well were you to use Christianity and Hinduism, or Judaism and Buddhism.

Yeah, Christians and Jews really hate the Dalai Lama.

But, in all seriousness, looking at the Mughals and other Indian states suggests that (or the Manichees or Nestorians earlier), in at least some cases, cross-religious spiritual authority of some kind was recognized.

Again, for a Medieval thinker, spiritual discussion is not relativistic as it is for us. We believe, or most of us do, that the most direct method to objectively debatable reality is probably the scientific method. Medievals, mostly (a few interesting dissenters among Christian heretics and some Muslim philosophers come to mind as counter-examples) thought that spiritual authority was a direct and objective thing. It's like if two scientists with radically different approaches to, say, evolution, just said, "Well, your model can be right for you, mine is right for me; ultimately, who's to say?" No, those people have a common idea of a methodology for debate and argument.

Similar things existed for Medieval philosophy and theology; common understandings of debate (such as the need for classical precedent in much of the Christian and Muslim intellectual world). They wouldn't say, "Don't bring your religion in here!" they would say, "Your religion is false, for we all know that Plato has said XYZ, which you erroneously interpret..." Now, of course, we don't have Plato. But the general idea should remain: that our characters, being Medieval, will not regard religion as a purely subjective matter, or something without recourse to objective mediation.

And I have often wondered why Mathurin doesn't take the Dean of Theology position.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on February 17, 2012, 07:17:15 PM
Unless the Pope decided to enroll in a University, and requested to be a student, which is what Mathurin did.
This point of view is something I find at odds with the station of many of the members of the University. Many of the most prominent "students" in the university would not "enroll as students". Nobles the stature of foreign rulers, dukes, heads of prestigious religions, would not become average, ordinary students. They would certainly be brought into the university as respected benefactors, supporters, honored professors, etc. The university would be falling all over itself to bestow any number of honorary degrees on someone with the stature of Mathurin. You wouldn't require him to write the equivalent of a term paper in order to be recognized as a Dean of Theology. And, to be fair, the same could be said for the prophet of Verdis Elementum, or whatever other religion has managed to survive and spread across a significant portion of the island.

I suppose this is an artifact of the guild system, though. Or perhaps the way the guild is run. But when you talk about "we're all equal here", I think you have to remember that some people are more equal than others.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Carna on February 17, 2012, 10:45:24 PM
This point of view is something I find at odds with the station of many of the members of the University. Many of the most prominent "students" in the university would not "enroll as students". Nobles the stature of foreign rulers, dukes, heads of prestigious religions, would not become average, ordinary students. They would certainly be brought into the university as respected benefactors, supporters, honored professors, etc. The university would be falling all over itself to bestow any number of honorary degrees on someone with the stature of Mathurin. You wouldn't require him to write the equivalent of a term paper in order to be recognized as a Dean of Theology. And, to be fair, the same could be said for the prophet of Verdis Elementum, or whatever other religion has managed to survive and spread across a significant portion of the island.

I suppose this is an artifact of the guild system, though. Or perhaps the way the guild is run. But when you talk about "we're all equal here", I think you have to remember that some people are more equal than others.

I rarely agree with Tim, but I figure I can make an exception. Reminds me of an old "help fairness" helpfile in a game I used to play. I've little idea about the academy in question and its basis, but thinking about old-day universities the chain of events Tim went through fits right in. Considering the atmosphere, any academy should be overjoyed and honoured to have leaders of the .001% in their faculty. its prestigious. Sounds like there's fun to be had though (",)

Finn.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on February 17, 2012, 11:30:21 PM
Yeah, Christians and Jews really hate the Dalai Lama.

But, in all seriousness, looking at the Mughals and other Indian states suggests that (or the Manichees or Nestorians earlier), in at least some cases, cross-religious spiritual authority of some kind was recognized.

Again, for a Medieval thinker, spiritual discussion is not relativistic as it is for us. We believe, or most of us do, that the most direct method to objectively debatable reality is probably the scientific method. Medievals, mostly (a few interesting dissenters among Christian heretics and some Muslim philosophers come to mind as counter-examples) thought that spiritual authority was a direct and objective thing. It's like if two scientists with radically different approaches to, say, evolution, just said, "Well, your model can be right for you, mine is right for me; ultimately, who's to say?" No, those people have a common idea of a methodology for debate and argument.

Similar things existed for Medieval philosophy and theology; common understandings of debate (such as the need for classical precedent in much of the Christian and Muslim intellectual world). They wouldn't say, "Don't bring your religion in here!" they would say, "Your religion is false, for we all know that Plato has said XYZ, which you erroneously interpret..." Now, of course, we don't have Plato. But the general idea should remain: that our characters, being Medieval, will not regard religion as a purely subjective matter, or something without recourse to objective mediation.

And I have often wondered why Mathurin doesn't take the Dean of Theology position.

You're missing my point. In your fictional example, both religions are based on the teachings of Plato, and the two different religions can debate productively the meaning of his words and how they should be applied. The same is true of the Abrahamic faiths and even more true of denominations under the Christian umbrella - they all purport to worship the same deity and accept a common mythology.

An Abrahamic faith does not have the same relationship with Hinduism. There's very little common ground on which they can meet to debate something on the merits. Religions in BM are the same way. If we ever have a schism in SA, there would be much more fertile ground for this in the divergence of one faith into two or more, all debating the true nature of the Stars and the value and meaning of Mathurin's teachings.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on February 18, 2012, 01:32:13 AM
You're missing my point. In your fictional example, both religions are based on the teachings of Plato, and the two different religions can debate productively the meaning of his words and how they should be applied. The same is true of the Abrahamic faiths and even more true of denominations under the Christian umbrella - they all purport to worship the same deity and accept a common mythology.

An Abrahamic faith does not have the same relationship with Hinduism. There's very little common ground on which they can meet to debate something on the merits. Religions in BM are the same way. If we ever have a schism in SA, there would be much more fertile ground for this in the divergence of one faith into two or more, all debating the true nature of the Stars and the value and meaning of Mathurin's teachings.

In my non-fictional example of Christianity and Islam, neither is based on Plato. I could probably find you Hindus citing Buddhists with ease; cross-citation in Chinese religious traditions is even easier. Consider the relationship between Patriarchs and the Pope pre-schism; disagreement, yes, but disagreement founded on a notion that there was a Real about which everyone was talking, and concerning which there could be an objective recourse.

Triunists ICly listen when Astroists speak on theological issues. Triunists ICly disagree with Triunists, but the belief is that, though we disagree with your model and think it erroneous, we still accept much of your methodology--- or at least think your methodology worthy of a critique by ours. This is a properly Medieval intellectual model.

But to simply say that promulgation of religious belief doesn't have a place in a Medieval university; that religion is a matter of personal choice or somehow less than objective... do remember, Medievals classified theology as one of the fundamental academic disciplines. The way we might see math, reading, history, science... for them, it's the trivium and quadrivium, but, of the higher disciplines, theology was primary. It was considered a rigorous, practically scientific subject. You can't read the debates between nominalists realists about the problem of universals without being inundated by citations of non-Christian thinkers, and repeatedly encountering what smells like peer-review.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Zakilevo on February 18, 2012, 02:00:50 AM
Religion wasn't a personal choice during Medieval.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on February 18, 2012, 02:57:05 AM
Religion wasn't a personal choice during Medieval.

Eh, now that's using a blanket judgement, something that people do too often with history.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Zakilevo on February 18, 2012, 04:04:22 AM
I am pretty sure Christians purged Jews more than once during Medieval period. If religion was a personal choice in those days, why would they have forcefully tried to convert people.

Western religions consider other religions false unlike Buddhism. Well Buddhists didn't start a crusade over Hindus for believing in something else at least.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: JPierreD on February 18, 2012, 05:07:11 AM
This point of view is something I find at odds with the station of many of the members of the University. Many of the most prominent "students" in the university would not "enroll as students". Nobles the stature of foreign rulers, dukes, heads of prestigious religions, would not become average, ordinary students. They would certainly be brought into the university as respected benefactors, supporters, honored professors, etc. The university would be falling all over itself to bestow any number of honorary degrees on someone with the stature of Mathurin. You wouldn't require him to write the equivalent of a term paper in order to be recognized as a Dean of Theology. And, to be fair, the same could be said for the prophet of Verdis Elementum, or whatever other religion has managed to survive and spread across a significant portion of the island.

I suppose this is an artifact of the guild system, though. Or perhaps the way the guild is run. But when you talk about "we're all equal here", I think you have to remember that some people are more equal than others.

That would be acceptable RP, but it was not what happened. Mathurin decided to enroll and become a student. And then he was called a 'mere' student. Had he refused to join as a student, or had he been invited as a professor or something, then it would have been insulting.

In my non-fictional example of Christianity and Islam, neither is based on Plato. I could probably find you Hindus citing Buddhists with ease; cross-citation in Chinese religious traditions is even easier.

Not really examples of inter-religious theological study from beliefs that do not share a common root.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on February 18, 2012, 06:07:32 AM
Not really examples of inter-religious theological study from beliefs that do not share a common root.

Umm... Christianity and Islam both citing Aristotle or Plato, neither of whom were of either religion, is pretty significant. I suppose you're right; we don't see Christians citing Confucian scholars (well, okay, actually, we did: Nestorian Christianity made a shot at it with some surprising success). But that's probably mostly because they didn't exist side-by-side much.

In every instance where religions existed side-by-side in the Medieval period, cases can be found where they regarded each others' leaders as relevant or even possibly authoritative on spiritual matters. Not necessarily correct, but not simply irrelevant. Not someone that can be written off because we all just have different beliefs about spiritual things and who's to say anyways?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Heq on February 19, 2012, 02:12:23 AM
I would add that religious institutions were also more likely to have common ground because for many of them their realm threats were the military infrastructure.  Yes, foreign religions were wrong and evil, but they were also unlikely to challange the idea of theocratic rule.  Powerful civil and military leaders did pretty much constantly.

I may think your religion is loonytoons, but there are solid political-economy reasons to at least pretend to have contact.  After all, we may disagree on the sky being blue, but all religions tend to believe in the importance of religion to the state.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: ^ban^ on February 19, 2012, 07:31:34 PM
Umm... Christianity and Islam both citing Aristotle or Plato, neither of whom were of either religion, is pretty significant.

Both Aristotle and Plato's ideas were based around the assumption that 'gods' existed. I don't think the same was true of Confucius.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on February 19, 2012, 09:36:30 PM
Both Aristotle and Plato's ideas were based around the assumption that 'gods' existed. I don't think the same was true of Confucius.

And yet Nestorians in China during the Tang dynasty cited Confucian scholars.

Funny how that works.

Again, the crucial thing to remember is that, in the Medieval context, the religious authorities took each other seriously as learned academics and credentialed experts in what they regarded as a rigorous field. That does not mean they agreed with each other, far from it, but it does mean that simply suggesting that theological issues would have a natural, subjective diversion along cultural lines would have been anathema.

(On a sidenote, I think Aristotle and Plato would object to being characterized as "assuming" gods exist, as they saw themselves as demonstrating that a god or divine power must exist, and other Medievals also did not view themselves as assuming that a god or gods existed.)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: dustole on February 19, 2012, 09:47:34 PM
BORING!


It is much more fun to poke D'hara!  I like preaching wherever I want to even when the ruler of another country tells me not to.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on February 19, 2012, 10:41:36 PM
This ought to be fun...
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on February 19, 2012, 10:55:21 PM
This ought to be fun...

Yes indeed.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Meneldur on February 19, 2012, 11:32:03 PM
BORING!


It is much more fun to poke D'hara!  I like preaching wherever I want to even when the ruler of another country tells me not to.

And just when Constantine thought that leaving the Regency would allow him to live a nice peaceful Allison-free life...  :P
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on February 20, 2012, 01:32:47 AM
And just when Constantine thought that leaving the Regency would allow him to live a nice peaceful Allison-free life...  :P

I'm very interested to see how this whole incident turns out...

I kind of really want to clap Allison in irons.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chenier on February 20, 2012, 01:35:34 AM
Forcing me out of my lazyness, urgh!
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chaotrance13 on February 20, 2012, 02:36:12 AM
Why do I get the odd feeling Allison is going to get excommunicated (again?)...
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Carna on February 20, 2012, 08:44:45 AM
Why do I get the odd feeling Allison is going to get excommunicated (again?)...

If Allison gets excommunicated, will Astrum lead a fancy crusade to capture the heretic and place a nice pious priest in her stead? Methinks she'll be arrested before very long though. Local laws and what-have-you.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on February 20, 2012, 10:20:18 AM
If Allison gets excommunicated, will Astrum lead a fancy crusade to capture the heretic and place a nice pious priest in her stead? Methinks she'll be arrested before very long though. Local laws and what-have-you.

And what if she does? The could torture her, though that isn't likely to play well. The can keep her in prison for a while, then she can go right back to preaching where she wants. Unless she is caught trying to influence the peasants or incite stuff, its not like they can ban her.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: GoldPanda on February 20, 2012, 11:04:13 AM
I, for one, welcome our new Astroist overlords.

*raises a white flag*

What now, Allison?!

A strange game. The only winning move is to surrender.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: dustole on February 20, 2012, 03:15:50 PM
Exactly!  Assimilate.   Sanguis Astroism is like the Borg.  You will become us or die.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chaotrance13 on February 20, 2012, 03:38:58 PM
Exactly!  Assimilate.   Sanguis Astroism is like the Borg.  You will become us or die.

Unless, of course, they encounter Species 8472.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: vonGenf on February 20, 2012, 05:02:28 PM
Unless, of course, they encounter Species 8472.

Don't those live in Volcano Nightcree?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Lefanis on February 20, 2012, 05:24:18 PM
Unless, of course, they encounter Species 8472.

Yeah, they'll suffer a bit for a while but then bounce back and 8472 shall be crushed by their uneasy allies, the Moot.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on February 20, 2012, 11:12:39 PM
Exactly!  Assimilate.   Sanguis Astroism is like the Borg.  You will become us or die.

Rather, we will become you, and that will make us strong enough to kill you.

Sure, we sacrifice our whole identity to do it... but we still get to kill you.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chenier on February 21, 2012, 12:33:32 AM
Rather, we will become you, and that will make us strong enough to kill you.

Sure, we sacrifice our whole identity to do it... but we still get to kill you.

Amen.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Dante Silverfire on February 21, 2012, 12:38:21 AM
As long as the Zuma don't worship the Bloodstars, the realms of humanity will be safe...
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: dustole on February 21, 2012, 07:50:34 AM
Well,  the Zuma have allowed SA to preach in their lands and to build shrines...  so the Zuma joining SA is not outside the realm of possibility!
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Carna on February 22, 2012, 06:46:35 AM
The Zuma are as likely to be assimilated into SA as the Lurians are to stop their in-fighting. Longshot, to say the least :(
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on February 22, 2012, 06:49:43 AM
The Zuma are as likely to be assimilated into SA as the Lurians are to stop their in-fighting. Longshot, to say the least :(

And yet what other religion has been granted permission to build shrines in Zuma territory?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on February 22, 2012, 04:31:02 PM
And yet what other religion has been granted permission to build shrines in Zuma territory?

And what religion has gone ahead and done it without permission, and had zero repercussions?

 ::)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on February 22, 2012, 10:23:57 PM
And what religion has gone ahead and done it without permission, and had zero repercussions?

 ::)

If you have built shrines in Zuma territory, now that the SA is running around the area the Zuma can actually LOCATE them. How long is that zero repercussions going to last if they inform the Zuma? If you are just referring to preaching cross over from preaching in adjoining regions, really is that something to crow about? If the Zuma declared war on you for preaching in your own regions the GM would simply have to go through yet another round of bitching.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on February 22, 2012, 10:34:09 PM
And what religion has gone ahead and done it without permission, and had zero repercussions?

 ::)

It does seem odd to me that you would boast about this after being the number one critic of the Zuma a while back. If you're so very tired of them, maybe it's best not to do things like this that you *know* could provoke them? Much less boast about it on the forum where the Zuma GM can see if he bothers to look...
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on February 22, 2012, 10:52:58 PM
It does seem odd to me that you would boast about this after being the number one critic of the Zuma a while back. If you're so very tired of them, maybe it's best not to do things like this that you *know* could provoke them? Much less boast about it on the forum where the Zuma GM can see if he bothers to look...

What would it matter. The GM is hardly going to use Forum knowledge to act in game, and besides which Vellos has already pointed out IG that his religion has a significant following among the Zuma. I think he got his RP Zuma Monks killed for that. Lesson to take away, the Masters don't like anything that distracts the Zuma from the duties.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on February 22, 2012, 11:21:31 PM
That depends. The information might be there IG for the NPC characters to see, but the GM hasn't noticed or bothered to look.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on February 23, 2012, 03:28:48 AM
It does seem odd to me that you would boast about this after being the number one critic of the Zuma a while back. If you're so very tired of them, maybe it's best not to do things like this that you *know* could provoke them? Much less boast about it on the forum where the Zuma GM can see if he bothers to look...

If the Zuma declare war on Terran and destroy us because of Triunism's presence in Zuma lands, I would be totally fine with that. You would not hear a single complaint from me at such a turn of events.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on February 23, 2012, 04:21:11 AM
If the Zuma declare war on Terran and destroy us because of Triunism's presence in Zuma lands, I would be totally fine with that. You would not hear a single complaint from me at such a turn of events.

Like everything some players would be fine with it, some wouldn't. My understanding is the Triunism presence in Zuma lands comes from peaching in regions near the Zuma. I can image that quite a few players would be upset if the Zuma acted on that as the conversion of the Zuma would in that case be an unintended side effect of players preaching to their own peasants. Unless a religion has been actively preaching in Zuma lands that is a can of worms I sure wouldn't want to open.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on February 23, 2012, 04:34:11 AM
Like everything some players would be fine with it, some wouldn't. My understanding is the Triunism presence in Zuma lands comes from peaching in regions near the Zuma. I can image that quite a few players would be upset if the Zuma acted on that as the conversion of the Zuma would in that case be an unintended side effect of players preaching to their own peasants. Unless a religion has been actively preaching in Zuma lands that is a can of worms I sure wouldn't want to open.

It's also there because we've built shrines.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on February 23, 2012, 04:47:16 AM
It's also there because we've built shrines.

Awww well see until now the Zuma couldn't see those. Who can tell what the response will be if they find out IG.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on February 23, 2012, 06:42:07 PM
Awww well see until now the Zuma couldn't see those. Who can tell what the response will be if they find out IG.

And again, if they declare war because of that, fine. That's perfectly fine GMing, IMHO. We clandestinely constructed shrines to a foreign religion, and have evinced a desire to subvert the hearts of the Zuma. Attack us. That's quite reasonable justification for violence.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on February 23, 2012, 07:38:51 PM
I just have to say, that attitude bothers me. It's OK if the Zuma destroy Terran because of something that you personally were involved in, but not if it's because of something that someone else did.

What about all the people in Terran that had nothing to do with the Triunist shrines in Zumaland? Like the Astroist players. Are they supposed to be OK with it because it was a Terran that ordered the shrines built? It may not even have been a Terran priest that built the shrines. It's not like you can tell it was a Terran. Would it be OK for the Zuma to see the Triunist shrines, see a Triunist temple in Asylon, and go destroy Asylon? I don't think the Asylonian players would like that, nor agree that it was good GMing. Or if they asked Allison, who apparently is now trusted by the Zuma (and holy crap, talk about a huge potential for serious mayhem: Allison giving guidance to the Zuma!! :o), and Allison says "The D'Harans are the ones who follow Triunism", and the Zuma go off and destroy D'Hara, what are the D'Harans supposed to do? Are they supposed to be OK with that?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on February 23, 2012, 08:00:51 PM
Damn it... ignore that. I should know better than to start up that discussion again....
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on February 23, 2012, 09:38:10 PM
Damn it... ignore that. I should know better than to start up that discussion again....

Probably should avoid it, but it was exactly what I was thinking.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Dante Silverfire on February 23, 2012, 09:43:07 PM
I just have to say, that attitude bothers me. It's OK if the Zuma destroy Terran because of something that you personally were involved in, but not if it's because of something that someone else did.

What about all the people in Terran that had nothing to do with the Triunist shrines in Zumaland? Like the Astroist players. Are they supposed to be OK with it because it was a Terran that ordered the shrines built? It may not even have been a Terran priest that built the shrines. It's not like you can tell it was a Terran. Would it be OK for the Zuma to see the Triunist shrines, see a Triunist temple in Asylon, and go destroy Asylon? I don't think the Asylonian players would like that, nor agree that it was good GMing. Or if they asked Allison, who apparently is now trusted by the Zuma (and holy crap, talk about a huge potential for serious mayhem: Allison giving guidance to the Zuma!! :o), and Allison says "The D'Harans are the ones who follow Triunism", and the Zuma go off and destroy D'Hara, what are the D'Harans supposed to do? Are they supposed to be OK with that?

Wait, so does this mean I can go back to try having the Zuma kill Solaria?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on February 23, 2012, 09:57:41 PM
Why not? You can  try to get Morek to kill Solaria. What makes the Zuma any different?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Solari on February 23, 2012, 10:01:31 PM
Why not? You can  try to get Morek to kill Solaria. What makes the Zuma any different?

Well, they did try.  Malus made a better offer, and did it with the only person qualified to negotiate: their ruler, not their idiot general.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on February 23, 2012, 10:03:04 PM
Wait, so does this mean I can go back to try having the Zuma kill Solaria?

Who ever told you that you had to stop?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Dante Silverfire on February 23, 2012, 10:13:58 PM
Who ever told you that you had to stop?

No one "Told me" However, there was a huge outcry against a non-Terran player trying to have Terran hurt by the Zuma and it spawned a huge 20+ page thread on how the Zuma should never exist because diplomacy with the Zuma somehow is not worth anything while diplomacy with players is. Thus, I stopped because I didn't want anyone getting mad at me on an OOC level for doing something IC that the game allows. Sure, I know how this sounds but it is 100% true that this happens.

Well, they did try.  Malus made a better offer, and did it with the only person qualified to negotiate: their ruler, not their idiot general.

This is not true at all. We didn't try to negotiate with their General. Letters were exchanged, but no actual attempt to negotiate was made, because as you said it was their General and not their ruler. And you did make a good offer, and all of Luria will hate Malus ever more for it. (when they realize)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on February 23, 2012, 10:18:22 PM
No one "Told me" However, there was a huge outcry against a non-Terran player trying to have Terran hurt by the Zuma and it spawned a huge 20+ page thread on how the Zuma should never exist because diplomacy with the Zuma somehow is not worth anything while diplomacy with players is. Thus, I stopped because I didn't want anyone getting mad at me on an OOC level for doing something IC that the game allows. Sure, I know how this sounds but it is 100% true that this happens.

This is not true at all. We didn't try to negotiate with their General. Letters were exchanged, but no actual attempt to negotiate was made, because as you said it was their General and not their ruler. And you did make a good offer, and all of Luria will hate Malus ever more for it. (when they realize)

If you did it, then I would imagine you would get a fair bit of OOC hatred from some people. But then killing a realm does that, running a successful war can do that etc. If you want to ensure no one gets mad with you OOC best bet is to be a silent knight.

Also all of Luria won't hate Malus, Solaria will still loves him. If the rest of Luria doesn't at least despise him he really isn't doing much of a job at being a aggressive self centred tyrant.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Solari on February 23, 2012, 10:30:22 PM
This is not true at all. We didn't try to negotiate with their General. Letters were exchanged, but no actual attempt to negotiate was made, because as you said it was their General and not their ruler. And you did make a good offer, and all of Luria will hate Malus ever more for it. (when they realize)

Nobody negotiated a deal.  Creed foolishly tried to commit Morek to a course of action Busto wasn't willing to pursue, and Malus didn't "offer" anything except religious tolerance.  There seriously wasn't a deal.  There was a period where PeL was pursuing any savior it could find, and people probably caught the stench of desperation.  That doesn't mean Malus was running around slamming doors.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Dante Silverfire on February 23, 2012, 10:45:38 PM
Nobody negotiated a deal.  Creed foolishly tried to commit Morek to a course of action Busto wasn't willing to pursue, and Malus didn't "offer" anything except religious tolerance.  There seriously wasn't a deal.  There was a period where PeL was pursuing any savior it could find, and people probably caught the stench of desperation.  That doesn't mean Malus was running around slamming doors.

I'm guessing he would have if he could. Still trying to figure out what really happened between Malus and the Zuma, of if he just made a VERY good guess.

If you did it, then I would imagine you would get a fair bit of OOC hatred from some people. But then killing a realm does that, running a successful war can do that etc. If you want to ensure no one gets mad with you OOC best bet is to be a silent knight.

Also all of Luria won't hate Malus, Solaria will still loves him. If the rest of Luria doesn't at least despise him he really isn't doing much of a job at being a aggressive self centred tyrant.

Meh, there is a difference between people getting mad at me OOC for killing their favorite realm, (bye Pian...) and people saying that I'm cheating, or abusing the system, etc... But yes I know all about the whole aggressive-self-centered tyrant thing. Its a blast.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Solari on February 23, 2012, 11:41:59 PM
I'm guessing he would have if he could. Still trying to figure out what really happened between Malus and the Zuma, of if he just made a VERY good guess.

Partly because people aren't as secretive as they imagine, and partly that given enough pieces of disparate news, anyone can string together an explanation.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on February 23, 2012, 11:45:47 PM
Partly because people aren't as secretive as they imagine, and partly that given enough pieces of disparate news, anyone can string together an explanation.

In other words, when a noble is vocal and been around for a while, it is often trivial to work out which way they might jump when desperate. Once you can make that link, then you can start collecting the information required. It was rather obvious that PeL would start reaching out to every power they though might be able to assist them. Given Brom's RP'd personality, it was also obvious he would undertake much of that effort himself, and that he might not be that worried about exactly WHERE the assistance came from.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on February 24, 2012, 12:39:57 AM
Nobody negotiated a deal.  Creed foolishly tried to commit Morek to a course of action Busto wasn't willing to pursue, and Malus didn't "offer" anything except religious tolerance.  There seriously wasn't a deal.  There was a period where PeL was pursuing any savior it could find, and people probably caught the stench of desperation.  That doesn't mean Malus was running around slamming doors.

Religious tolerance alone is generally enough to make us delighted, especially when its in an area that had been closed off to us before. You certainly nullified any slim chance there might have been of Morek shifting itself off the couch to potentially intervene.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Creed on February 24, 2012, 03:55:47 AM
Nobody negotiated a deal.  Creed foolishly tried to commit Morek to a course of action Busto wasn't willing to pursue, and Malus didn't "offer" anything except religious tolerance.  There seriously wasn't a deal.  There was a period where PeL was pursuing any savior it could find, and people probably caught the stench of desperation.  That doesn't mean Malus was running around slamming doors.

You know I was really trying to get Morek to destroy Solaria and make PeL our slave state I even came up with a way for us to insure that PeL never betrayed us. I was going to put Morek loyal nobles as the Dukes of PeLs city's.  But I am stuck with a bunch of religious freaks in my realm plus I think Pierre von Genf was jealous that what took him 4 years to do I was going to do in a week. He gave me the hardest time in the inner council I wanted to death duel him but people told me priest don't duel so kind of scraped that idea.

I had the nobles to support it but not the important ones. If only I got Busto to join in on it with me and I could have had a slave state. Now I am barred pretty much from ever holding a official position in Morek anymore.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Dante Silverfire on February 24, 2012, 03:57:09 AM
You know I was really trying to get Morek to destroy Solaria and make PeL our slave state I even came up with a way for us to insure that PeL never betrayed us. I was going to put Morek loyal nobles as the Dukes of PeLs city's.  But I am stuck with a bunch of religious freaks in my realm plus I think Pierre von Genf was jealous that what took him 4 years to do I was going to do in a week. . 

I had the nobles to support it but not the important ones. If only I got Busto to join in on it with me and I could have had a slave state. Now I am barred pretty much from ever holding a official position in Morek anymore.

You do realize, you can't make Pian a slave state unless we accept that right?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on February 24, 2012, 04:00:12 AM
That would be like saying did he realise he wanted to destroy the only Lurian realm that already allowed SA to preach and had a SA ruler :)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Creed on February 24, 2012, 04:04:08 AM
You do realize, you can't make Pian a slave state unless we accept that right?

Well it was accept our terms or die and I thought the terms I was going to give you was pretty sweet. You could keep your government and religion and what not but SA priest would be allowed to preach and build temples if PeL region lords agreed to it and we where going to get all of your land back from you. Which meant we were going to destroy Solaria and if you did not accept I was going to invade you anyways and find a noble in your realm that would accept the terms.   
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Creed on February 24, 2012, 04:06:01 AM
That would be like saying did he realise he wanted to destroy the only Lurian realm that already allowed SA to preach and had a SA ruler :)

You do realize that SA kicked me out for so called heresy.?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on February 24, 2012, 04:06:31 AM
Well it was accept our terms or die and I thought the terms I was going to give you was pretty sweet. You could keep your government and religion and what not but SA priest would be allowed to preach and build temples if PeL region lords agreed to it and we where going to get all of your land back from you. Which meant we were going to destroy Solaria and if you did not accept I was going to invade you anyways and find a noble in your realm that would accept the terms.   

Instead you were relegated to clearing out monsters for Solaria. I think one character might be a bit delusional about what kind of authority he has.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on February 24, 2012, 04:07:57 AM
You do realize that SA kicked me out for so called heresy.?

And? Common sense says the Morek Theocracy is probably going to at least stay neutral in a conflict that has a SA ruler unless that ruler has done some serious damage to the religion.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Creed on February 24, 2012, 04:10:11 AM
Instead you were relegated to clearing out monsters for Solaria. I think one character might be a bit delusional about what kind of authority he has.

Well some nobles wanted to do that I never went down to clear out monsters but you are correct the Ordermarshal position in Morek right now does not have that much power. You just sit around most of the time. There really is not that much to do in morek right now.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Dante Silverfire on February 24, 2012, 04:19:06 AM
Instead you were relegated to clearing out monsters for Solaria. I think one character might be a bit delusional about what kind of authority he has.

Are we talking about Brom or Creed? ;)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: dustole on February 24, 2012, 06:08:23 PM
I am liking the fact that my priests and I can preach in D'hara and they can't do anything about it.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: egamma on February 25, 2012, 05:19:57 AM
I am liking the fact that my priests and I can preach in D'hara and they can't do anything about it.

Don't be too sure about that. Preaching is allowed in Port Raviel, but if I hear about you preaching in Raviel...I'll have my knight arrest your priest.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: dustole on February 25, 2012, 07:01:04 AM
Don't be too sure about that. Preaching is allowed in Port Raviel, but if I hear about you preaching in Raviel...I'll have my knight arrest your priest.

I'm pretty sure you can't arrest without a war declaration...
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on February 25, 2012, 08:31:37 AM
I'm pretty sure you can't arrest without a war declaration...

Are you sure about that?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Feylonis on February 25, 2012, 11:01:12 AM
Would it matter? SA will just declare war and destroy D'Hara, heh.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chaotrance13 on February 25, 2012, 03:23:17 PM
I believe as long as your unit is set to Police, the "arrest a Priest" option comes up under Orders. But then, I've only had the option to arrest priests of my own realm on stable. Haven't had the opportunity to try it on foreign priests yet.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on February 25, 2012, 03:35:01 PM
You can only arrest a priest of your own realm, or a realm with which you are at war. Religious affiliation, of either the priest or arresting noble, is not a factor.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on February 25, 2012, 04:17:46 PM
Wop wop.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Penchant on February 25, 2012, 07:23:30 PM
That should be changed in my opinion for exactly this reason, D'hara doesn't want the priests preaching in their lands but without declaring war over you can't arrest. I would think even it wouldn't matter what the diplomacy is, if there is a noble breaking the laws there should be consequences.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: egamma on February 25, 2012, 09:11:54 PM
You can only arrest a priest of your own realm, or a realm with which you are at war. Religious affiliation, of either the priest or arresting noble, is not a factor.

So you can arrest your own realm-mate, but not that of a foreign realm? That should be changed.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Perth on February 25, 2012, 09:20:16 PM
So you can arrest your own realm-mate, but not that of a foreign realm? That should be changed.

I agree. Being able to arrest nobles from other realms that are in your realm would be a great catalyst for conflict.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on February 25, 2012, 09:43:49 PM
I agree. Being able to arrest nobles from other realms that are in your realm would be a great catalyst for conflict.

Indeed.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on February 25, 2012, 10:20:49 PM
I agree. Being able to arrest nobles from other realms that are in your realm would be a great catalyst for conflict.

You mean as opposed to just declaring a conflict so you can arrest the priest in the first place?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on February 25, 2012, 10:27:53 PM
You mean as opposed to just declaring a conflict so you can arrest the priest in the first place?

Declaring war just so you can arrest a priest is a pretty extreme step. It also makes no sense that you can't just arrest any priest anywhere. If you're in the vicinity and you have a bunch of armed men backing you up, you ought to be able to try. Just like you can loot allied territory.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on February 25, 2012, 10:31:56 PM
Declaring war just so you can arrest a priest is a pretty extreme step. It also makes no sense that you can't just arrest any priest anywhere. If you're in the vicinity and you have a bunch of armed men backing you up, you ought to be able to try. Just like you can loot allied territory.

Arresting a noble from a realm you have no declared conflict with doesn't make a whole lot of sense either, just like you won't arrest neutral knights passing through your territory. If a priest is preaching without permission you already have everything you need for conflict, some angry letters to the ruler of the other realm, and perhaps the head of the religion would probably be a good start.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on February 25, 2012, 10:52:39 PM
I agree. Being able to arrest nobles from other realms that are in your realm would be a great catalyst for conflict.
As De-Legro already, you have what you need to start a conflict. Go ahead and declare it openly. What it appears to me is that you want to do whatever you feel like doing, and make the *other* guy declare the war. i.e you don't want to be the one to push the "declare war" link.

If they are preaching in your realm, then you go preach in their realm. Or stab the priest. Or go loot their realm. Get their allies to put pressure on them to stop. Cancel your peace treaties. Get your allies to do the same. Force your lords to sack their temples in your lands, or close them down altogether. Persecute their followers. Have your priests foment unrest and uprisings in their lands.

You have options. Use them.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Perth on February 26, 2012, 12:14:46 AM
As De-Legro already, you have what you need to start a conflict. Go ahead and declare it openly. What it appears to me is that you want to do whatever you feel like doing, and make the *other* guy declare the war. i.e you don't want to be the one to push the "declare war" link.

Uh... right back at you:

What it appears to me is that you want to do whatever you feel like doing, and make the *other* guy declare the war. i.e you don't want to be the one to push the "declare war" link.


Seriously, it goes both ways. However, by allowing realms to arrest priests it allows for a nice showdown. Sure, we're going to send our priest in to start converting. Arrest him. I dare you. If you do, instant Casus Belli. Does the small realm take the risk of offending the larger by arresting their priest? Does the small realm with good relations and powerful allies try to send their priest into a larger realm. I think allowing it adds a really nice political dynamic to the game.


If they are preaching in your realm, then you go preach in their realm. Or stab the priest. Or go loot their realm. Get their allies to put pressure on them to stop. Cancel your peace treaties. Get your allies to do the same. Force your lords to sack their temples in your lands, or close them down altogether. Persecute their followers. Have your priests foment unrest and uprisings in their lands.

You have options. Use them.

No one is saying there aren't already options. Of course there are. All I was saying is that this would be a really cool option to have also.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Zakilevo on February 26, 2012, 12:57:45 AM
Dont need to result in extremes...
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on February 26, 2012, 04:03:08 AM
I just think it's strange that you can't arrest priests until after you declare war, when arresting priests would seem like a great way to provoke a war. Limiting arrests to after the war doesn't make wars more likely, it makes them less likely, as it establishes high costs for escalation.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on February 26, 2012, 04:17:30 AM
Exactly. I can't see any reason not to be able to do it and I think it adds some options for provoking people. What I like about it is you can provoke another realm with or without your ruler's support; just go ahead and arrest that priest. It also adds something to religious conflict. When a particularly zealous character decides he's offended by the preaching of that idolater from the realm next door, he has a way to vent his righteous anger, and he can do it with or without his ruler's permission. I'm a fan of anything that gives the average knight more ability to stir up trouble for their rulers.

You can argue that the ability to loot anywhere is good enough, but it's not the same. Looting is essentially a crime, and therefore almost impossible to justify to an angry realm council. Arresting a priest on the other hand can be done on principle and is therefore more defensible when your ruler gets upset at you, plus you may be able to get your co-religionists to back you. See? More conflict, politics and intrigue.

More of a discussion for the development thread at this point though.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: dustole on February 26, 2012, 05:54:02 AM
You can't arrest normal nobles.  It's already an advantage to arrest a priest with a war declaration, but my opinion carries a little less weight since I am the one instagating.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Velax on February 26, 2012, 06:14:17 AM
Yes, but what can a "normal noble" do in another realm's regions? Nothing, if he has no unit with him. And if he does, he can be attacked.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: dustole on February 26, 2012, 02:34:09 PM
A diplomat could do some pretty severe damage to a realm by bribing the minor nobles.   That one isnt overt like preaching.  You dont need a unit and cant be arrested.  You know, priests have high oratory...  Might have to test this out.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Velax on February 26, 2012, 04:16:43 PM
Hmm, true. Does seem like there should be a way to stop that. Declaring war to stop a priest preaching or a diplomat bad mouthing you seems a little extreme. Wasn't the treaty system going to cover stuff like this? Passage rights and so on?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on February 26, 2012, 05:04:59 PM
Hmm, true. Does seem like there should be a way to stop that. Declaring war to stop a priest preaching or a diplomat bad mouthing you seems a little extreme. Wasn't the treaty system going to cover stuff like this? Passage rights and so on?

For diplomats, yes. I seem to recall hearing about an 'Expel Diplomats' treaty you could sign against a realm to allow your nobles to arrest diplomats from that realm. However in the absence of that system there's not really much you can do short of declaring war and hoping you arrest the guy while he's moving around. So far as I know there is no chance that a diplomat can be caught and imprisoned for performing any negative actions the way that a priest or infiltrator can, though my experience with the class is limited. Perhaps that should be revisited as a stop gap until the New Treaty System is finished, unless the gold cost for such actions is deemed to be a sufficient balancing factor to counter the impossibility of preventing or stopping such actions short of war.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chenier on February 26, 2012, 06:42:36 PM
I am liking the fact that my priests and I can preach in D'hara and they can't do anything about it.

You talk as if D'Hara was anti-SA. We aren't. Many of our lords follow SA. Why would we do anything against things that don't break the law?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chenier on February 26, 2012, 06:47:24 PM
I just think it's strange that you can't arrest priests until after you declare war, when arresting priests would seem like a great way to provoke a war. Limiting arrests to after the war doesn't make wars more likely, it makes them less likely, as it establishes high costs for escalation.

It didn't use to be this way. Though I dislike priests preaching in my lands without having any easy way of dealing with them, it beats the old way of things where no one would ever care for priests. This no-arrest-without-declaration is necessary for the viability of the priest game, imo.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: dustole on February 26, 2012, 08:13:00 PM
There is already little enough reason to go to war.  We need more war.  To arrest a noble of a foreign realm is an act of war.  If you arrest a noble you are committing an act of war, which requires you to click the "declare war" button.  Pretty simple.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on February 26, 2012, 08:17:04 PM
There is already little enough reason to go to war.  We need more war.  To arrest a noble of a foreign realm is an act of war.  If you arrest a noble you are committing an act of war, which requires you to click the "declare war" button.  Pretty simple.

Arresting a foreign noble is not an act of war. I can arrest an infiltrator who tries to steal gold without declaring war.

Furthermore, as I've said, the current system doesn't create more wars. It creates less wars, because it raises the cost of provoking wars. Yes, it raises the benefits of war, but that is far less important than the question of the costs to make the actual transition. And, as noted, it means that only a ruler can do anything about a war (click "declare war") while, if arresting were possible, anybody could provoke a war.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: dustole on February 26, 2012, 09:20:40 PM
Arresting a foreign noble is not an act of war. I can arrest an infiltrator who tries to steal gold without declaring war.

Furthermore, as I've said, the current system doesn't create more wars. It creates less wars, because it raises the cost of provoking wars. Yes, it raises the benefits of war, but that is far less important than the question of the costs to make the actual transition. And, as noted, it means that only a ruler can do anything about a war (click "declare war") while, if arresting were possible, anybody could provoke a war.


You can catch an infiltrator in the midst of committing a crime.  Such as changing signs, stealing gold from the tax office or assaulting a noble for example.  You cannot order your unit to arrest an infiltrator who happens to be passing through your lands and not committing any crimes.  Further, lets say that there are only two nobles in a region.  Realm A and Realm B.  The noble from realm B assaults the noble from realm A and does not get caught, but successfully assaults the noble.  Now, you can infer that the noble from realm B is an infiltrator and you can infer that they are the one that is guilty of the assault.  However you cannot send a police unit to the region and push a button to arrest the Infiltrator. 

If a priest tries to do something that provokes the commoners of a region such as,  Auto Da Fe or declaring yourself Lord of a region and a few other commands like that, then the priest has a chance of being arrested just like an Infiltrator who assaults, steals, etc...

A priest preaching is the lowliest action that a priest can take.  They could be making the peasants hate you or lower their morale or building a shrine.  Preaching isn't something that you should worry about.  It is what happens later, after the preaching that you need to worry about.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on February 26, 2012, 09:49:41 PM

You can catch an infiltrator in the midst of committing a crime.  Such as changing signs, stealing gold from the tax office or assaulting a noble for example.  You cannot order your unit to arrest an infiltrator who happens to be passing through your lands and not committing any crimes.  Further, lets say that there are only two nobles in a region.  Realm A and Realm B.  The noble from realm B assaults the noble from realm A and does not get caught, but successfully assaults the noble.  Now, you can infer that the noble from realm B is an infiltrator and you can infer that they are the one that is guilty of the assault.  However you cannot send a police unit to the region and push a button to arrest the Infiltrator. 

If a priest tries to do something that provokes the commoners of a region such as,  Auto Da Fe or declaring yourself Lord of a region and a few other commands like that, then the priest has a chance of being arrested just like an Infiltrator who assaults, steals, etc...

A priest preaching is the lowliest action that a priest can take.  They could be making the peasants hate you or lower their morale or building a shrine.  Preaching isn't something that you should worry about.  It is what happens later, after the preaching that you need to worry about.

Still doesn't change the fact that the mechanics as they stand reduce rather than increase the possibility of war.

They incentivize going and preaching anywhere (as you said, a mild provocation), but disincentivize arresting the priest (the escalation). More free arresting would disincentivize preaching in unfriendly places (so less mild provocations), but incentivize arresting (the escalation). I tend to think the second is more likely to create wars.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on February 26, 2012, 10:17:31 PM
Still doesn't change the fact that the mechanics as they stand reduce rather than increase the possibility of war.

They incentivize going and preaching anywhere (as you said, a mild provocation), but disincentivize arresting the priest (the escalation). More free arresting would disincentivize preaching in unfriendly places (so less mild provocations), but incentivize arresting (the escalation). I tend to think the second is more likely to create wars.

Perhaps, but only if it didn't destroy the inventive to actually preach. I think that given the present difficulty for most religions to even get priests (How many religions have only 1 priest?) that making things harder then they already are to preach in other realms would pretty much kill it. In the 4 religions I've had priest in we already "couldn't" preach outside of "allowed" regions, on threat of being banned by our realm. Add in a simple button press to "combat" the few priest that do preach were they want to, and I can't see the practise surviving at all.

I really don't see either case as working to produce wars though, unless the religion is backed up by a realm. Most times I see this sort of thing, the realm just disowns the priest, since really why would they go to war over religion unless it is a theocracy or the ruler happens to share the religion. People SHOULD care that one of their nobles is arrested, but the dominant attitude tends to be, well he was preaching where he shouldn't.

Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chenier on February 27, 2012, 01:54:59 AM
Perhaps, but only if it didn't destroy the inventive to actually preach. I think that given the present difficulty for most religions to even get priests (How many religions have only 1 priest?) that making things harder then they already are to preach in other realms would pretty much kill it. In the 4 religions I've had priest in we already "couldn't" preach outside of "allowed" regions, on threat of being banned by our realm. Add in a simple button press to "combat" the few priest that do preach were they want to, and I can't see the practise surviving at all.

I really don't see either case as working to produce wars though, unless the religion is backed up by a realm. Most times I see this sort of thing, the realm just disowns the priest, since really why would they go to war over religion unless it is a theocracy or the ruler happens to share the religion. People SHOULD care that one of their nobles is arrested, but the dominant attitude tends to be, well he was preaching where he shouldn't.

Precisely. Priests were being arrested left and right, and nobody ever raised a fuss about it. It meant that religions has no means to cross borders, because they'd be arrested on sight and their realm would not defend them.

It not requires a lot more muscle to keep priests out, which is necessary for the priest game.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: egamma on February 27, 2012, 08:30:31 PM

You can catch an infiltrator in the midst of committing a crime. 

But preaching is a crime in Keplerstan, the game mechanics simply don't recognize that.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: dustole on February 27, 2012, 08:35:57 PM
But preaching is a crime in Keplerstan, the game mechanics simply don't recognize that.

But preaching involves commoners.  You would tell a noble that he has no right to speak to a commoner?  I was under the impression that a Noble can do whatever they like to commoners.  An infiltrator's actions are against the nobility.  Be it changing road signs, attacking a noble or stealing gold.  Now, if a priest were to cause the commoners to rise up against the nobility, that is a crime and it can very easily result in the priest getting sent to jail.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Perth on February 27, 2012, 10:09:18 PM
You would tell a noble that he has no right to speak to a commoner?

If what they're speaking is heresy against the Almighty? Absolutely. I don't care who they're talking to. If you're spewing blasphemy against the Holy Church, you're lucky to just be locked and not burnt at the stake!
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on February 27, 2012, 10:12:27 PM
But preaching is a crime in Keplerstan, the game mechanics simply don't recognize that.

Obviously the underlying conventions of acceptable Noble behaviour overrule the quaint and slightly backwards local laws of Keplerstan.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on February 27, 2012, 10:19:21 PM
But preaching is a crime in Keplerstan, the game mechanics simply don't recognize that.
There are things that the game will not let you do, because it would make a for a not-so-good game. Like randomly arresting any noble you feel like arresting. Or banning/executing any random prisoner of war. Or banning or executing any random noble belonging to an other realm. Or allowing game mechanics to enforce any arbitrary law that your realm may pass.

These are things which you theoretically could very well do, were this Real Life. But it's not. So the range of actions you can take are limited, in order to make a good game experience for everyone.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: dustole on March 03, 2012, 07:37:17 PM
You know, having the player of Twinblade in my realm is good/bad.  He is a great Marshal and will be a great General since he is a shoe in for the next election, but how long until I have a rebellion in my realm?  At least it brings some potential fun to Kabrinskia.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on March 03, 2012, 08:16:44 PM
You know, having the player of Twinblade in my realm is good/bad.  He is a great Marshal and will be a great General since he is a shoe in for the next election, but how long until I have a rebellion in my realm?  At least it brings some potential fun to Kabrinskia.

He's back?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on March 03, 2012, 09:18:51 PM
You know, having the player of Twinblade in my realm is good/bad.  He is a great Marshal and will be a great General since he is a shoe in for the next election, but how long until I have a rebellion in my realm?  At least it brings some potential fun to Kabrinskia.

ooo.... wow. Yup. Just checked through the nobles. He's back. Interesting.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chenier on March 03, 2012, 11:00:00 PM
ooo.... wow. Yup. Just checked through the nobles. He's back. Interesting.

Isn't he the guy who played half a realm...?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on March 03, 2012, 11:14:56 PM
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chenier on March 04, 2012, 12:57:42 AM
More like half of two realms.

He was half of Irombrozia (the half that favored rejecting peace with Riombara back when Irombrozia appeared to be winning and maybe could have had peace) and about 2/3 of Aquilegia.

He doomed Irombrozia before he even closed his accounts; but he killed Aquilegia when he left.

Well, had we not been gangbanged by *all* of the western realms, his gamble would have paid off and Rio would be dead. Or had we had a bit more help in fending off the West. Or maybe had I not went on vacation during a crucial moment in the war.

Regardless.

Though nothing justifies cheating, I did otherwise find him to be an enjoyable player to deal with. Particularily his heenite character...
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on March 04, 2012, 02:25:33 AM
Indeed, he was (is, I guess) enjoyable personally to play alongside.

And behold, we have hijacked the thread. Again.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chenier on March 04, 2012, 03:37:35 AM
Indeed, he was (is, I guess) enjoyable personally to play alongside.

And behold, we have hijacked the thread. Again.

Indeed, we are threadjacking again.

But that being said, any reason to believe it's the same guy? I mean, Twinblade isn't such a farfetched name for anyone trying to make one up. Could just be someone else who thought of the same name.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on March 04, 2012, 03:58:53 AM
No, it's him. He hangs out on IRC quite a bit. He's not trying to hide the fact that he's back.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Velax on March 04, 2012, 05:09:15 AM
So the punishment for multi-cheating to that degree isn't a lifetime ban, then, obviously.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: egamma on March 04, 2012, 07:55:55 AM
There are two or three others here in the forums, including the player of the Psyche family and even a member of the dev team.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chenier on March 04, 2012, 04:35:09 PM
There are two or three others here in the forums, including the player of the Psyche family and even a member of the dev team.

That being said, was there a pardon given? It was pretty serious cheating that had pretty serious consequences...
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on March 04, 2012, 06:28:06 PM
He was the worst cheater in recent memory. I think we as players on Dwilight should make a fairly concerted effort make him feel unwelcome by outright banning him from any kingdom he shows up to. The guy sounds like a major dork.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Dante Silverfire on March 04, 2012, 06:43:57 PM
I believe the official response to his cheating was that he had left the game himself, and so because he was gone there was no need to address the issue at the time. However, I think that should be looked at again, because he is obviously back and there is little question as to the guilt of the matter.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chaotrance13 on March 04, 2012, 07:06:12 PM
In that case there shouldn't be any action until someone with the relevant authority (whether that's Tom or the Titans is up to them) decides if his past offences stand and if they have any effect on his current account.

Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on March 04, 2012, 08:00:16 PM
He might have made 50 forum accounts and right at this moment could be conducting hundreds of seperate conversations with himself... Who knows I could be the only real person here!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: egamma on March 04, 2012, 08:12:56 PM
He might have made 50 forum accounts and right at this moment could be conducting hundreds of seperate conversations with himself... Who knows I could be the only real person here!!!!!!!!!!!

Actually..the others didn't want me to tell you...we're actually YOU. You have multiple personality disorder, and one of them is a brilliant game designer, others are competent and hardworking developers, one is a cheater named twinblade, etc.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on March 04, 2012, 08:44:20 PM
Actually..the others didn't want me to tell you...we're actually YOU. You have multiple personality disorder, and one of them is a brilliant game designer, others are competent and hardworking developers, one is a cheater named twinblade, etc.

I must have wrote this earlier to throw myself off of discovering that I am actually Twinblade? I can't fool myself!... I mean you are onto me, but you are actually me so its me who is onto you but I know its me so I just make it seem like I know its you but actually its me... 8)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Penchant on March 04, 2012, 09:44:47 PM
Well this is getting confusing... and off topic
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on March 04, 2012, 10:18:09 PM
SANGUIS ASTROISM IS EVIL!!! ok back on topic, discuss!
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Dante Silverfire on March 04, 2012, 10:19:47 PM
SANGUIS ASTROISM IS EVIL!!! ok back on topic, discuss!

So, will SA be destroyed before or after they take over the world?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on March 04, 2012, 10:46:05 PM
I'm a bit curious at how many newcomers that Kabrinskia's getting. We got quite a few in the past two weeks.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on March 04, 2012, 10:57:33 PM
Well judging with Twinblades arrival you haven't gotten any new arrivals at all... lolz
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Lorgan on March 04, 2012, 11:05:38 PM
This thread has suddenly become a lot more fun.  ;D
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on March 04, 2012, 11:12:52 PM
I'm a bit curious at how many newcomers that Kabrinskia's getting. We got quite a few in the past two weeks.

Well judging with Twinblades arrival you haven't gotten any new arrivals at all... lolz

If you think that's the case, file a Titan report. Gossiping about it on the forum probably won't help.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on March 04, 2012, 11:32:11 PM
Im just joking. I put the 'lolz' at the end for that purpose.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: vonGenf on March 05, 2012, 08:54:58 AM
So, will SA be destroyed before or after they take over the world?

After.

Not long afterwards, though. Of course, you always have the opportunity to hasten SA's demise by converting to it.  ;D
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Dante Silverfire on March 05, 2012, 07:59:17 PM
After.

Not long afterwards, though. Of course, you always have the opportunity to hasten SA's demise by converting to it.  ;D

Hmm, for some reason I feel this is a trick, but another part of me is starting to hail the bloodstars....so I don't know...
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Galvez on March 14, 2012, 04:09:41 PM
Is there any news why the Zuma declared war on Morek?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on March 14, 2012, 04:16:05 PM
I've heard a lot of "What the heck?", but no one seems to have any idea at all. Big surprise.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on March 14, 2012, 04:25:40 PM
A noble of Morek apparently attacked Screamer.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Velax on March 14, 2012, 04:31:41 PM
I'm sure Morek are shaking in their boots, what with Zuma territory being so close to them and all.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: LilWolf on March 14, 2012, 04:52:53 PM
Is there any news why the Zuma declared war on Morek?

Apparently because I went and tried to stab Screamer. That's the second war my infiltrator has played a part in starting(first being the whole Lurias war in the south).

But yeah, don't see what they're going to do about it. Maybe they'll demand Morek bans me and hands me over to them or something, but we'll see. Frankly I just hope thy get told to stuff it and the island decides it's time to end Zuma.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Zakilevo on March 14, 2012, 06:14:05 PM
Apparently because I went and tried to stab Screamer. That's the second war my infiltrator has played a part in starting(first being the whole Lurias war in the south).

But yeah, don't see what they're going to do about it. Maybe they'll demand Morek bans me and hands me over to them or something, but we'll see. Frankly I just hope thy get told to stuff it and the island decides it's time to end Zuma.

Time to end a GM controlled realm for good. It was pointless to have daimons in Dwilight anyway.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on March 14, 2012, 06:48:08 PM
Oh you guys talk so big half way across the map. If you really wanted to fight Zuma, you'd join a frontline realm like the cool dudes...  8)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Penchant on March 14, 2012, 10:25:17 PM
Your only a frontline realm if you actually are at war unless you mean Zuma interaction as a whole. Who thinks the island will help Morek and attack the Zuma or who thinks the rest the realms will just say its sucks for Morek, they shouldn't have attacked them and got caught?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Arrakis on March 14, 2012, 10:28:50 PM
I'm pretty sure if Zuma makes any direct hostilities against Morek that SA would defend Morek.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Perth on March 14, 2012, 11:21:08 PM
Time to end a GM controlled realm for good. It was pointless to have daimons in Dwilight anyway.

Good luck trying.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on March 15, 2012, 12:04:44 AM
Its a war of bluster without muster. Morek can say and do whatever it wants about the Zuma, there is very little each side can do to eachother unless the Zuma send over and invasion force... And actually settle in the east lands.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Zakilevo on March 15, 2012, 12:25:49 AM
equipment damage and morale will probably destroy daimon armies. Well I am not even sure they are affected by them. But Morek will gain the upper hand if Daimons do send an invasion force.

Well at least for the defending part.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on March 15, 2012, 12:27:00 AM
Its a war of bluster without muster. Morek can say and do whatever it wants about the Zuma, there is very little each side can do to eachother unless the Zuma send over and invasion force... And actually settle in the east lands.

Unless they are already there, or even more sinister, unless they have collaborators in the eastern realms.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on March 15, 2012, 02:46:08 AM
CREeeeEeeeeEeeeeeEeeeeEeeDdddD!!!!*shakes his fist at the heavens* Damn you Creed and Ironsides!
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Dante Silverfire on March 15, 2012, 03:27:42 AM
Unless they are already there, or even more sinister, unless they have collaborators in the eastern realms.

Or even more sinister: The founder of SA is Screamer's cousin.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Penchant on March 15, 2012, 03:41:34 AM
That would be rather interesting turnout, if it was true does that mean SA is really daimon worship but changed a little so others humans don't find out?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: egamma on March 15, 2012, 05:26:56 AM
equipment damage and morale will probably destroy daimon armies. Well I am not even sure they are affected by them. But Morek will gain the upper hand if Daimons do send an invasion force.

Well at least for the defending part.

They are humans, lead by daimons. I suspect they may be able to use the "buy favors" feature to get their equipment repaired. Not sure about morale...they might have a cheat in for that.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Perth on March 15, 2012, 05:43:27 AM
They are humans, lead by daimons. I suspect they may be able to use the "buy favors" feature to get their equipment repaired. Not sure about morale...they might have a cheat in for that.

You sure about that?

If so they can have units of 100 men with like 10,000 CS...
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on March 15, 2012, 05:47:12 AM
They are RP'd as humans lead by Daimon leaders. Beyond that who knows. Even if they are "human" forces, they are also NPC forces, so the regular mechanics don't need to apply.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Perth on March 15, 2012, 05:53:17 AM
They are RP'd as humans lead by Daimon leaders. Beyond that who knows. Even if they are "human" forces, they are also NPC forces, so the regular mechanics don't need to apply.

That's silly.

Regardless, game says they are units of 100. And doesn't the realities of the game trump RP? Therefore either they are daimons, or they are humans with supernatural powers.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on March 15, 2012, 06:04:04 AM
That's silly.

Regardless, game says they are units of 100. And doesn't the realities of the game trump RP? Therefore either they are daimons, or they are humans with supernatural powers.

Lasers, the Zuma are the vanguard of the High Tech battlemaster. Eventually you will all learn that their true civilisation is underground.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Zakilevo on March 15, 2012, 06:22:32 AM
They are highly advanced aliens from the outer space. Their spaceship is hidden underground!
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on March 15, 2012, 06:23:01 AM
They are highly advanced aliens from the outer space. Their spaceship is hidden underground!

Thus the link with the blood stars.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Zakilevo on March 15, 2012, 07:16:28 AM
Thus the link with the blood stars.

Blood stars are actually UFOs!
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on March 15, 2012, 07:58:11 AM
ok ok stop... So why would the Daimons attack Morek, if Morek was worshiping the UFO's? And why would a Morek noble attack the Zumans if they...gah.... :o
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on March 15, 2012, 12:01:45 PM
ok ok stop... So why would the Daimons attack Morek, if Morek was worshiping the UFO's? And why would a Morek noble attack the Zumans if they...gah.... :o

To HIDE THE TRUTH
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on March 15, 2012, 01:14:52 PM
Blood stars are actually UFOs!
That's actually not too far from what would be the true physics/mechanics behind the Bloodstars: three objects in geosynchronous orbit. That would give you the three objects in the sky that are always in the same position, and do not move with the regular stars and planets.

In Anne McCaffrey's Pern novels, the three colony ships that took the colonists to Pern were left in geosynchronous orbit. When the colony devolved into a medieval lifestyle and forgot about their technological origins, they forgot about the colony ships. The three stars visible in the sky became known as the Dawn Sisters, since that is when they were visible in the reflected sunlight. In a different part of the world they were seen at dusk and were known by another name (which I can't recall right now...).
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chenier on March 15, 2012, 01:15:53 PM
Lasers, the Zuma are the vanguard of the High Tech battlemaster. Eventually you will all learn that their true civilisation is underground.

I see Prudent made a trip to Dwilight... :P
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Creed on March 15, 2012, 05:10:44 PM
CREeeeEeeeeEeeeeeEeeeeEeeDdddD!!!!*shakes his fist at the heavens* Damn you Creed and Ironsides!


You got to love Creed.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on March 15, 2012, 10:28:47 PM

You got to love Creed.

People love the Three Stooges as well.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Creed on March 16, 2012, 12:53:20 AM
People love the Three Stooges as well.


lol are you calling Creed a idiot?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on March 16, 2012, 02:05:13 AM
We would never do that... ;)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on March 16, 2012, 02:49:01 AM
Depends on which Creed you mean. Creed. Or Ursarkar E. CREEEEEEEEEEEEEED.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Creed on March 16, 2012, 03:30:59 AM
Well guys I am banned from the military, SA, Donghaiwei, all Government positions, Lordships, oh and I am banned from becoming a knight in any of the regions in the Donghaiwei Duchy.  lol I really dont have much to do in Morek.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Penchant on March 16, 2012, 03:39:40 AM
So why stay there? and what did you do to get banned from that much stuff?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Creed on March 16, 2012, 03:43:55 AM
So why stay there? and what did you do to get banned from that much stuff?

Don't ask me I was just being my wonderful self. Sharing my views with the rest of the realm. As for the reason I stay I have my reasons. I am hoping they will come to fruition soon.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on March 16, 2012, 03:46:35 AM
So why stay there? and what did you do to get banned from that much stuff?

Probably stays in an attempt to colonise the Flow Peninsula, since Morek lays claim to the area.

In terms of what he did to be banned from so many positions, the word my character heard was he was being hostile to the theocracy and the church. If true its pretty easy to see why he ended up in his current position. Although if true it is also hard to see a colony attempt.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Penchant on March 16, 2012, 04:01:02 AM
So the church and your "wonderful self" didn't get along then and are you in a different religion?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Creed on March 16, 2012, 04:05:17 AM
So the church and your "wonderful self" didn't get along then and are you in a different religion?

Well I was in the church of SA but was tried for heresy and convicted and thrown out of the church. Yes Creed has a different version of SA he believes in. You can say the church and my wonderful self do not get along.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: egamma on March 17, 2012, 02:13:05 AM
Are you like Martin Luther (Lutheranism)? Or John Smith (Mormonism)?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Pike on March 17, 2012, 03:46:56 AM
If nothing else Creed does make Morek interesting.  I think it is a toss up between which is more interesting the upcomming war or what creed is doing.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Penchant on March 17, 2012, 03:48:38 AM
Wow Creed you are so interesting you got someone to make a forum account to post about it. ( I am being serious)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Creed on March 17, 2012, 04:36:13 AM
Are you like Martin Luther (Lutheranism)? Or John Smith (Mormonism)?

If I had to pick one it would probably be  Lutheranism but that is just me others might see it a different way.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Creed on March 17, 2012, 04:38:21 AM
Wow Creed you are so interesting you got someone to make a forum account to post about it. ( I am being serious)

Yeah I try to keep Creed a interesting character. He is the kind of character you either love or you hate there is no in between. 
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Zakilevo on March 17, 2012, 04:46:16 AM
Yeah I try to keep Creed a interesting character. He is the kind of character you either love or you hate there is no in between.

Just like Allison?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Penchant on March 17, 2012, 04:48:23 AM
Ah, well that tells me a lot actually about your character very interesting in the way he acts but some think it shouldn't be done so hate him others think its great and love him. Am I right?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Pike on March 17, 2012, 05:06:29 AM
Wow Creed you are so interesting you got someone to make a forum account to post about it. ( I am being serious)
Hey now, I have been debating on it.  Just finally had someone who was involved enough in morek now. Though I think Allison is a bit more stubborn and crazy then creed is.

Yes most of the church hates Creed because he dares to be a bit different.

I would also agree that Creed would be a Lutheranism or some other protestant vain but not as far different as Mormonism
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Creed on March 17, 2012, 05:14:35 AM
Ah, well that tells me a lot actually about your character very interesting in the way he acts but some think it shouldn't be done so hate him others think its great and love him. Am I right?

Yeah that sounds about right.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Creed on March 17, 2012, 05:16:08 AM
Just like Allison?

Naw I dont think creed is  like Allison but a few people have compared creed to Allison. I don't believe Creed is as crazy as Allison.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Penchant on March 17, 2012, 05:19:14 AM
I like how everyone classifies Allison as crazy. I don't know much about her other then that she is kinda considered a warmonger in my realm and the obvious of her being ruler of Kabrinskia.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: JPierreD on March 17, 2012, 06:49:14 AM
I like how everyone classifies Allison as crazy. I don't know much about her other then that she is kinda considered a warmonger in my realm and the obvious of her being ruler of Kabrinskia.

And has had a hole made in the head. Literally.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on March 17, 2012, 08:57:53 AM
And has a loyal Lord in Gustav Kuriga, a man who has a lonely dire wolf and has named himself "Kabrinski's Wolf".
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: vonGenf on March 17, 2012, 09:34:29 AM
I would also agree that Creed would be a Lutheranism or some other protestant vain but not as far different as Mormonism

Martin Luther did not add a new extra god and claimed he was better than the other gods, did he?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on March 17, 2012, 09:42:46 AM
I would say that Creed is the most dynamic and exteme rebels that has ever graced the halls of Sanguis Astroism in its entire history since the beginning of time eternal, way before the big bang...
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: JPierreD on March 17, 2012, 10:41:49 AM
Martin Luther did not add a new extra god and claimed he was better than the other gods, did he?

He added a fourth star and claims it to be more important than the previous three?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: vonGenf on March 17, 2012, 11:27:32 AM
He added a fourth star and claims it to be more important than the previous three?

Yes.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: JPierreD on March 17, 2012, 11:40:16 AM
...inspiring.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: vonGenf on March 17, 2012, 11:46:00 AM
...inspiring.

He did not imbue this fourth Star with flammae, however.  I'm not overly worried. ;)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: JPierreD on March 17, 2012, 11:47:59 AM
He did not imbue this fourth Star with flammae, however.  I'm not overly worried. ;)

Little he knows the fourth Star is actually the Sun! 8)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Darksun on March 17, 2012, 01:42:07 PM
Little he knows the fourth Star is actually the Sun! 8)

If I remember his shenanigans correctly, the fourth star was "Darkness" or some such.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on March 17, 2012, 02:10:15 PM
Yes most of the church hates Creed because he dares to be a bit different.
Different does not equate to good.

No offense to the player, but the character Creed is arrogant, crude, rude, insulting, etc. Not a pleasant experience to interact with at all.

Allison is very frustrating, arrogant, and aggressive, but in a completely different sense. Whereas Allison tries makes controversy in order to get things done and move toward a goal and make progress, it feels to me like Creed wants to cause trouble just to cause trouble. It's "I want to be controversial", but he has really nothing to *be* controversial about.

That's just the feeling I've gotten. Others may have a different experience.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Pike on March 17, 2012, 02:49:41 PM
arrogant, crude, rude, insulting, etc. Not a pleasant experience to interact with at all.

I find the same can be said about quite a few members of the SA faith.  Why is it that Creed is condemned for acting that way but supporters of the faith are not?  Is
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Creed on March 17, 2012, 03:05:03 PM
Different does not equate to good.

No offense to the player, but the character Creed is arrogant, crude, rude, insulting, etc. Not a pleasant experience to interact with at all.

Allison is very frustrating, arrogant, and aggressive, but in a completely different sense. Whereas Allison tries makes controversy in order to get things done and move toward a goal and make progress, it feels to me like Creed wants to cause trouble just to cause trouble. It's "I want to be controversial", but he has really nothing to *be* controversial about.

That's just the feeling I've gotten. Others may have a different experience.


I can see what you are saying and yes creed can be arrogant, crude, rude and insulting sometimes but that is only sometimes if you interacted with me somewhat you would find my character quite fun to RP with.

You have to remember to that Creed is hated by the church and it is not uncommon for him to receive death threats or bans but everything that Creed does is for a larger goal. You may not be able to see what that goal is but when it does happen you will see why he has acted the way he did.

Also I am a noble are nobles suppose to act arrogant, rude and insulting sometimes.

Indirik I ask that you have your character interact with Creed again and I a sure you can have fun with him. 
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Creed on March 17, 2012, 03:07:38 PM
He did not imbue this fourth Star with flammae, however.  I'm not overly worried. ;)

As for everyone saying Creed believes in a fourth star it is not really a fourth star in the since like the blood stars it is totally different. While I don't blame people for having this misconception due to that fact I have not yet really shared the 4 books of the Dark Star with anyone besides a select few.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: dustole on March 17, 2012, 04:29:35 PM
I like how everyone classifies Allison as crazy. I don't know much about her other then that she is kinda considered a warmonger in my realm and the obvious of her being ruler of Kabrinskia.


Allison is crazy.  She had a hole drilled into her skull.  It took a lot of work for Allison to get the reputation she has.  Unfortunately for her she gained many enemies to get where she is.  Most of them are in the church too.   
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: vonGenf on March 17, 2012, 04:40:26 PM
Allison is crazy.  She had a hole drilled into her skull.  It took a lot of work for Allison to get the reputation she has.  Unfortunately for her she gained many enemies to get where she is.  Most of them are in the church too.


Allison never really crossed the line into heresy. She knows where the line is, and she prodded it to see if it bent, but she always ended up on the right side of it.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Creed on March 17, 2012, 05:48:30 PM

Allison never really crossed the line into heresy. She knows where the line is, and she prodded it to see if it bent, but she always ended up on the right side of it.

And you know what that is good for Allison but it would never be any fun if everyone just agreed with the majority views. You have to have players that challenge the status quo or the game would become stagnate. I try to liven up the game of course some people are not going to like how I go about it but then I have people that have enjoyed how I have played Creed.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: vonGenf on March 17, 2012, 06:14:15 PM
And you know what that is good for Allison but it would never be any fun if everyone just agreed with the majority views. You have to have players that challenge the status quo or the game would become stagnate. I try to liven up the game of course some people are not going to like how I go about it but then I have people that have enjoyed how I have played Creed.

Oh, sure. I enjoy it!

Naw I dont think creed is  like Allison but a few people have compared creed to Allison. I don't believe Creed is as crazy as Allison.

I was just trying to explain that the craziness scale is not the right one to consider here. SA has no a priori problem with crazy people. If that's how the Stars roll, we go with it.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chenier on March 17, 2012, 06:14:25 PM

Allison never really crossed the line into heresy. She knows where the line is, and she prodded it to see if it bent, but she always ended up on the right side of it.

Wasn't she excommunicated once?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chaotrance13 on March 17, 2012, 06:28:41 PM
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: egamma on March 17, 2012, 06:33:54 PM

Allison is crazy.  She had a hole drilled into her skull.  It took a lot of work for Allison to get the reputation she has.  Unfortunately for her she gained many enemies to get where she is.  Most of them are in the church too.

Headache cure? Not unheard of.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Pike on March 17, 2012, 06:56:37 PM

Allison never really crossed the line into heresy. She knows where the line is, and she prodded it to see if it bent, but she always ended up on the right side of it.

If no body crossed the line that would be boring.  Different views help define everyone's beliefs.  The SA church like to try and squash anyone that does not agree with them.  Everything is fine as long as you believe in the blood stars and believe in them the way the church wants you to.  If you do not well you are out of luck.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Velax on March 17, 2012, 08:27:45 PM
Sounds pretty SMA to me.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chenier on March 17, 2012, 08:30:13 PM
People who joined SA mostly did not so because they sought RP, but because it was an institution that opened doors. Bashing on people that are out of line is an extremely easy and risk-free method of "proving" oneself in such a context.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on March 17, 2012, 09:59:07 PM
Lol Indirik calling Creed arrogant... The pot calling the kettle black lolz ;)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Pike on March 17, 2012, 10:10:32 PM
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on March 18, 2012, 01:10:27 AM
I think people tend to forget that SA is roleplayed as a hardcore religious fundamentalist outfit in the vein of the Taliban or Spanish Inquisition. The church is not some namby pamby all inclusive enlightened modern day church that has gone through reformation and read books by Thomas Hobbes etc. You either submit to SA or you are infidel. Creeds character as wonderful as he is is going against the holy of holy holies the most sacred gods word on earth super structures. In reality Creed would be tied to a pyre and burned for merely suggesting a Dark star. This merely my opinion of SA and even Glaumring doesnt fully subscribe to it because is an outsider southern born. In ordr to survive the church became a necessity.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Pike on March 18, 2012, 01:27:40 AM
I think you got it perfectly.  Though I think there are a few that are at least trying to change some of it.  I am sure of Morek could get away with burning Creed at the stake they would.  I am sure the regent and and judge would love to do that.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on March 18, 2012, 02:40:12 AM
I am sure I could name a few more people in SA that act to arrogant for their own good.  I have not had much contact with Indirik in game so dont know about him.
I freely admit that Brance (my Dwilight character) acts fairly arrogant. The difference, I think, is that to this point Brance is a /very/ successful noble. He is the founder of Astrum, which has grown to be the largest and most powerful realm on Dwilight. He is the ruler of said realm, and a powerful and influential duke. I think there are only two people in SA that have been followers longer than he has, and one of them is the founder. For a while he was the leader of SA itself. And he is completely dedicated to the Stars, and supremely confident in the righteousness of his faith. After all, the Stars have led him to success after success after success, allowing him to dispatch all of his enemies. He has a right to be arrogant and confident. Eventually, someone might teach him some humility. Maybe.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on March 18, 2012, 02:46:16 AM
I think you got it perfectly.  Though I think there are a few that are at least trying to change some of it.
he he he... if so, they are in for a rude surprise. We're not likely to be getting any less aggressive any time soon.

Quote
I am sure of Morek could get away with burning Creed at the stake they would.  I am sure the regent and and judge would love to do that.
The Regent of SA? Nah... Pierre is a softy. I don't know Morek's judge. But Busto is very easygoing. You've gotta do a lot to really get him angry. But Creed did manage to do it, which is why Busto asked him to step down as general.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Pike on March 18, 2012, 03:29:17 AM
I know things are not likely to change but thats part of the fun of a good rp.

I disagree with Pierre.  As regent he has been very vocal against Creed and what creed has been saying recently.  The judge has been quite with most of the recent stuff( or at least been quiet in speaking to the realm at large).  Pierre has been doing most of the arguing.  Though I would say what caused Busto to ask Creed to step down had very little if anything to do with faith.  Once again that is going from what was said in the realm.


And so it is acceptable for a member of SA and ruler of a realm who was ex regent of SA to be arrogant but not for a master swordsman and marshal who is not of the SA faith?-
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on March 18, 2012, 03:42:45 AM
Though I would say what caused Busto to ask Creed to step down had very little if anything to do with faith.  Once again that is going from what was said in the realm.
It was not directly related to SA. It was an incident that happened in the Dwilight University.

Quote
And so it is acceptable for a member of SA and ruler of a realm who was ex regent of SA to be arrogant but not for a master swordsman and marshal who is not of the SA faith?-
Master swordsmen are a dime a dozen. All it takes is gold and free time.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Pike on March 18, 2012, 03:49:29 AM
It was not directly related to SA. It was an incident that happened in the Dwilight University.
Once again... That was not the reason that was given in the realm.

Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: vonGenf on March 18, 2012, 09:04:58 AM
The Regent of SA? Nah... Pierre is a softy.

I disagree with Pierre.  As regent he has been very vocal against Creed and what creed has been saying recently.  The judge has been quite with most of the recent stuff( or at least been quiet in speaking to the realm at large).  Pierre has been doing most of the arguing. 

These are not mutually exclusive statements.... I really can't imagine Pierre burning anyone at the stake. It's just not his style.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on March 18, 2012, 03:02:03 PM
And so it is acceptable for a member of SA and ruler of a realm who was ex regent of SA to be arrogant but not for a master swordsman and marshal who is not of the SA faith?-

Anyone can be arrogant. The question is whether they can walk the walk. Brance has lots of power and influence, and at this point does not need to demonstrate it for people to know it's there. Creed on the other hand has not yet warranted being taken seriously as either a threat or a power player in his own right. Right now he's just a crackpot heretic who's been marginalized. Incidentally, that's the difference between Creed and Allison. She's powerful and dangerous, and has proven it on many occasions. She has skirted the line of heresy and schism numerous times, but she's too powerful and has too many supporters for the Church to get rid of her easily. She's been too crafty to do anything that would *really* piss of the Church (like start preaching about a Dark Star) or cost her her political support.

Of course if Creed succeeds in stirring up real trouble, people will naturally start to take him more seriously. Personally I hope he does. It would give us all something interesting to do.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chenier on March 20, 2012, 01:03:12 PM
Allison is being told on she's being naughty. Why can't she play nice with the other kids?  :'(
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: dustole on March 20, 2012, 01:43:06 PM
The funny part is that the other SA rulers don't care.  No one in the church or other rulers have said anything to Allison about this whole incident.   I'm playing it off as Terran being dumb.   They did agree for the Trader to show up and then got mad when the Trader showed up.   Just silly.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on March 20, 2012, 02:06:40 PM
Heh. We agreed for a trade in Faithill, but have scout reports of a trader in Vashgew. Bit of a difference.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on March 20, 2012, 03:26:43 PM
Personally happy Allison is stirring stuff up . In game not so happy about it, but I personally am ready for some crazy stuff going on.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on March 20, 2012, 05:09:57 PM
Personally happy Allison is stirring stuff up . In game not so happy about it, but I personally am ready for some crazy stuff going on.

I just want something to happen. :P
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Pike on March 20, 2012, 05:12:08 PM
I think we all just want something to hapen
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on March 20, 2012, 05:18:42 PM
Oh, the anticipation! Just wait for the big reveal. You won't be disappointed. :D
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on March 20, 2012, 06:29:36 PM
Never are when it's a Kabrinski scheme.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chenier on March 21, 2012, 12:45:30 AM
I think we all just want something to hapen

Nah, I'm fine with all being peaceful. I have plenty of wars with all my other chars.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on March 21, 2012, 12:59:15 AM
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on March 21, 2012, 01:02:05 AM
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chenier on March 21, 2012, 12:43:45 PM
lol thats the lamest thing I have ever heard( you are joking right?)... You can never have too much war. :P

There's enough politics on Dwilight to keep be entertained without conflict. Keeping peace is a war of its own.

Hell, getting food and surviving is a struggle on its own. War is for the bored with nothing better to do (as all my other characters).

Where Guillaume tries to get as much war as possible for his realm, Machiavel does the opposite. That's pretty much what he was elected for. There's absolutely nothing to gain with war, and even a victory can be quite costly.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on March 21, 2012, 01:28:30 PM
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Pike on March 21, 2012, 03:36:33 PM
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on March 21, 2012, 04:24:36 PM
I know of two major conflicts brewing, but nobody else seems to be wanting to help them boil over. I tell ya, trying to start a war on your own is tricky business.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on March 21, 2012, 04:31:43 PM
Well, just to let you know, it's your fault it's going slow. :) Not that you would know that. I'm just sayin'...
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on March 21, 2012, 05:43:54 PM
Well, just to let you know, it's your fault it's going slow. :) Not that you would know that. I'm just sayin'...

lol, seriously?

Here I am publicly accusing Allison of being an oath-breaker, accusing her of invading Terran, trying to instigate fights between Kabrinskian traders and Terran soldiers, and openly developing an alliance against Kabrinskia... and I'm making conflict come slower?

 :o

I believe that you're telling the truth; I just don't understand how. After this all goes down, a "behind the scenes" would be great.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on March 21, 2012, 05:57:24 PM
Funny how things happen, isn't it?

But yeah, there are some interesting questions that we all have, and just can't ask right now. Even OOC I don't want to know, because I don't want to spoil the suspense/surprise.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: JPierreD on March 22, 2012, 01:22:12 AM
I know of two major conflicts brewing, but nobody else seems to be wanting to help them boil over. I tell ya, trying to start a war on your own is tricky business.

In the Lurias war seek you ;)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on March 22, 2012, 01:43:25 AM
In the Lurias war seek you ;)

Brom was heading over to the west, he should be able to help get a war going. God knows he caused enough in the east, intentionally and unintentionally.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Dante Silverfire on March 22, 2012, 03:51:17 AM
Brom was heading over to the west, he should be able to help get a war going. God knows he caused enough in the east, intentionally and unintentionally.

Don't worry it was all intentional. I mean 5 rebellions/assassinations don't just start themselves.

So who is wanting war? It can be arranged...
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on March 22, 2012, 04:11:17 AM
Don't worry it was all intentional. I mean 5 rebellions/assassinations don't just start themselves.

So who is wanting war? It can be arranged...

So the only unintentional part was the fact they all failed? Or did you truly plan that assassinating a King and then blaming another realm would result in the death of your own realm?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Dante Silverfire on March 22, 2012, 04:13:42 AM
So the only unintentional part was the fact they all failed? Or did you truly plan that assassinating a King and then blaming another realm would result in the death of your own realm?

Yes.

Albeit that was just bad timing. If I had known y'all were trying to have us killed before I even did any of that, I would have just asked Fulco and Malus for help planning it anyway.

Although, to be fair, they didn't all fail. I had a lot of fun running them, and I remained in power for a long time. Not to mention getting away with 4 out of 5 seems like a pretty good streak imho.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on March 25, 2012, 10:35:47 AM
Hey, Gustav got grouped up with Allison as a troublemaker. Not fair! all he did was share decisions from the Elder Council, exactly as he said he would when he was voted in. >_<
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on March 25, 2012, 02:27:14 PM
I'm glad you did. Someone needs to do it. There's no law or convention that says the elder council is private/secret.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on March 25, 2012, 05:39:50 PM
So SA is declaring open season for preaching.

This may get very interesting.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: dustole on March 25, 2012, 09:02:14 PM
Pierre and Busto promised to support the measure and then they decided not to vote.  Pierre thought he could suspend a vote and so some of the other Elders didn't vote.   In the end, no one voted against it and it passed.  Even the two most outspoken Elders against it.  Labell and Medugnatos didn't vote against it.   


In the end, the other Elders apathy and ignorance made them look bad.    SA has 13 priests and all the other religions combined have only 9.  Some SA people are freaking out about this but they don't realize that having 99% of the commoners in a region following your faith and having temples in a region and every region around it make it almost impossible for a foreign priest to make any sort of headway preaching in an SA region.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on March 25, 2012, 10:02:06 PM
That's a very slanted and biased view of the events. The proposed amendment was not worded the way it was presented to Busto and Brance. Whether or not it "passed" is also debatable, as it did not garner yes votes from 2/3rds of the total elders. I think the votes were 4:1 in favor, meaning less than half the elders voted. A poorly written charter leaves the interpretation of the voting rather vague. Also, a don't think Allison has the authority to declare the vote as passed or failed. Several of the elders didn't vote not out of apathy, but because the regent suspended the vote before it could finish. And Pierre did not support it because he asked Allison to wait on calling a vote, and she went ahead and called the vote anyay. And the elders that voted for it were mostly Allison and her puppets.

And then Allison went ahead and trumpeted the news to the world in exactly the way that those she claimed supported her told her *not* to do it.

So, yes, this will be interesting.

I think what would be more interesting is if some other religions joined the bandwagon in support. After all, the resolution declares open preaching for all priests in all lands, not just SA priests. This could, if handled properly by the right people, be a religious first in BattleMaster.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on March 25, 2012, 10:13:34 PM
Ah, Gustav is a puppet, is he? ^_^

Or perhaps Allison just knows him well enough to know what to ask of him and what he won't do?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on March 25, 2012, 10:19:00 PM
Quite honestly, yes. Allison constantly tells everyone that she has the voting support to do whatever she wants, because she knows that certain people, like Gustav, will vote however she tells them to vote.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on March 25, 2012, 10:21:42 PM
Quite honestly, yes. Allison constantly tells everyone that she has the voting support to do whatever she wants, because she knows that certain people, like Gustav, will vote however she tells them to vote.

Not however she tells him to vote. She just knows what he is willing to support. There is a difference.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Penchant on March 25, 2012, 10:27:04 PM
I think what would be more interesting is if some other religions joined the bandwagon in support. After all, the resolution declares open preaching for all priests in all lands, not just SA priests. This could, if handled properly by the right people, be a religious first in BattleMaster.
Actually it doesn't really allow priests to preach anywhere because after when of the consul's complained Busto said that theocracies don't have to let other priests preach in their lands so if that's true then SA priests get to preach as they please but theocracies don't so its really just a SA saying we get to preach  where ever we want regardless of what any realm says. Allison even said any realm caught arresting a SA priest she will declare war on and that if the entire south rebel's she doesn't care since she believes SA will win.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: dustole on March 25, 2012, 10:28:37 PM
Quite honestly, yes. Allison constantly tells everyone that she has the voting support to do whatever she wants, because she knows that certain people, like Gustav, will vote however she tells them to vote.


I don't have the voting support to do whatever I want.  I don't have 2/3rds majority.  I can with the right persuasion block just about any vote I don't like though...
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on March 25, 2012, 10:42:15 PM
Besides, Gustav is getting a bit annoyed...
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Penchant on March 25, 2012, 10:58:00 PM
Besides, Gustav is getting a bit annoyed...

Good because I really hope the elders dont support this. I and I hope many others will leave if the amendment is not repealed. Allison is trying to say the church has power over not only members of the church but the entire island by saying no realm may deny the preaching of SA regardless of their laws must obey SA or be destroyed. So it seems a crusade against SA or maybe just a war against Kabrinskia could definently happen if Allison holds true to what she said of any realm found arresting an SA priest will be declared war on them. I have also heard some theocracy ruler's say they are fine with saying SA may preach anywhere while others may not preach in the theocracies thus the possibility of a crusade against SA not only war against Kabrinskia.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on March 25, 2012, 11:05:08 PM
Then Gustav should show it by doing something to indicate he's not really Allison's lapdog.

As for a 2/3rds vote, dustole, all you need 2/3rds of the people who /actually/ vote, right? ;)

And as for preaching, any theocratic ruler who knows which way the wind blows will open their borders. Writing the declaration the way it was done was brilliant. Allowing reciprocal preaching turns it from an oppressive declaration of foreign domination into a declaration of religion trumping secular trivialities. The church *needs* to enforce that portion of the declaration, and make it stick.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on March 25, 2012, 11:12:50 PM
Then Gustav should show it by doing something to indicate he's not really Allison's lapdog.

As for a 2/3rds vote, dustole, all you need 2/3rds of the people who /actually/ vote, right? ;)

And as for preaching, any theocratic ruler who knows which way the wind blows will open their borders. Writing the declaration the way it was done was brilliant. Allowing reciprocal preaching turns it from an oppressive declaration of foreign domination into a declaration of religion trumping secular trivialities. The church *needs* to enforce that portion of the declaration, and make it stick.

Heh.

If this amendment passes formally.... it'll be very interesting. I'm already thinking of responses to it for Hireshmont. My favorite one so far is the one I gave the rulers: SA just claimed sovereignty over the Zuma?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Penchant on March 25, 2012, 11:21:39 PM
Well it did pass formally it just must not of been shared with many rulers that aren't of SA. Basically it passed but with lots of argueing/protesting happening afterwards which hasn't stopped yet. That will be quite the interesting reply and actually very interesting to here what the Zuma say because Allison did say all of Dwilight which would include the Zuma's lands. You could use that to your advantage if you wanted to repeal it too.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: dustole on March 25, 2012, 11:31:05 PM
Well it did pass formally it just must not of been shared with many rulers that aren't of SA. Basically it passed but with lots of argueing/protesting happening afterwards which hasn't stopped yet. That will be quite the interesting reply and actually very interesting to here what the Zuma say because Allison did say all of Dwilight which would include the Zuma's lands. You could use that to your advantage if you wanted to repeal it too.


I'm in good with the Zuma.  I've already negotiated preaching rights with the Zuma and the rights to built shrines in Zuma lands.   SA priests have been in Zuma lands for quite some time now.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on March 25, 2012, 11:31:36 PM
Then Gustav should show it by doing something to indicate he's not really Allison's lapdog.

As for a 2/3rds vote, dustole, all you need 2/3rds of the people who /actually/ vote, right? ;)

And as for preaching, any theocratic ruler who knows which way the wind blows will open their borders. Writing the declaration the way it was done was brilliant. Allowing reciprocal preaching turns it from an oppressive declaration of foreign domination into a declaration of religion trumping secular trivialities. The church *needs* to enforce that portion of the declaration, and make it stick.

Someone didn't read the message I sent to all the full members of SA.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Pike on March 25, 2012, 11:41:17 PM
So what is the point of the amendent if it alows for SA priests to go everywhere but SA theocrocies do not need to allow priests to preach.  Also does this only allow preaching to the peasents or are priess allowed to openly preaxh to nobels as well?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: dustole on March 25, 2012, 11:46:45 PM
So what is the point of the amendent if it alows for SA priests to go everywhere but SA theocrocies do not need to allow priests to preach.  Also does this only allow preaching to the peasents or are priess allowed to openly preaxh to nobels as well?


I think that the Theocracies will come around.  There are only the Iashalurians who are throwing a fit about it right now.  I attribute that to Aram opposing anything Allisons says.  As for preaching to nobles, nothing stops us from doing that.  There is no game mechanic to preach to a noble.  You just need to convince them to join your church.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Meneldur on March 26, 2012, 12:03:24 AM
I'm finding the support of theocracies such as Astrum and Morek for this new declaration very interesting. I remember when the negotiations with Caerwyn were going on, Constantine was criticized for trying to impose preaching rights on the Caerwynians as apparently Brance and Bustoarsenzio thought that was going too far.

Apparently that attitude has changed, at least with Brance; I'd be interested to see what provoked this. Terran aggression perhaps?

Of course this declaration need not turn into a universal crusade, declaring that SA priests will not be prohibited from preaching in foreign lands is not the same as forcing foreign lands to welcome our priests. Although with Allison at it's head and the theocracies apparently compliant we'll have to see.

In short very fun from a player perspective, not so fun for my character lol
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Pike on March 26, 2012, 12:46:58 AM

I think that the Theocracies will come around.  There are only the Iashalurians who are throwing a fit about it right now.  I attribute that to Aram opposing anything Allisons says.  As for preaching to nobles, nothing stops us from doing that.  There is no game mechanic to preach to a noble.  You just need to convince them to join your church.
It has been explained often that the laws and core ideas of the church are the core ideas of a theocrecy.  You would think that they woul not need to come around.  As to preaching to nobles it boils down if the realm will allow it.  I am guessing that a forign priest can be arrested (from a mecanic) for just abouythingr.  The questin is how much political trouble it causes on both ends.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Penchant on March 26, 2012, 01:43:45 AM
I have never heard of a priest being arrested for preaching to a noble as it is done through letters, not forcing anyone to do anything.
"declaring that SA priests will not be prohibited from preaching in foreign lands is not the same as forcing foreign lands to welcome our priests."
please share the difference.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Meneldur on March 26, 2012, 02:45:23 AM
I have never heard of a priest being arrested for preaching to a noble as it is done through letters, not forcing anyone to do anything.
"declaring that SA priests will not be prohibited from preaching in foreign lands is not the same as forcing foreign lands to welcome our priests."
please share the difference.

Simple: The Church does not reprimand priests for preaching where they please (a de-facto reality anyway, since priests can't be excommunicated) while at the same time only declaring a crusade when a priest is actually tortured or executed (something that has already been proposed by King Turin).

Of course individual realms such as Kabrinskia may declare wars if they wish, but one theocracy does not make a crusade and King Turin seems to believe that a mere arrest is not a cause for Iashalur to declare war.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on March 26, 2012, 02:54:09 AM

I'm in good with the Zuma.  I've already negotiated preaching rights with the Zuma and the rights to built shrines in Zuma lands.   SA priests have been in Zuma lands for quite some time now.

Except you just made a proclamation asserting the right of all religions to preach in Zuma lands.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on March 26, 2012, 02:58:02 AM
No, it is the right for all religions to preach in SA lands. There is a difference...
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Dante Silverfire on March 26, 2012, 03:07:47 AM
No, it is the right for all religions to preach in SA lands. There is a difference...

That is not what is says. It says ALL religions can preach in ALL lands.

Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: egamma on March 26, 2012, 03:12:28 AM
okay--non-SA realms will revoke passage rights for anyone from a SA realm.

We won't be prohibiting preaching, just calling you a trespasser.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Penchant on March 26, 2012, 05:20:43 AM
Simple: The Church does not reprimand priests for preaching where they please (a de-facto reality anyway, since priests can't be excommunicated) while at the same time only declaring a crusade when a priest is actually tortured or executed (something that has already been proposed by King Turin).

Of course individual realms such as Kabrinskia may declare wars if they wish, but one theocracy does not make a crusade and King Turin seems to believe that a mere arrest is not a cause for Iashalur to declare war.

I think most would agree to that though what if a priest repeatedly gets arrested and the realm decides to deport the priest as a way for the priest to stop preaching there. (I understand the church says there is nothing wrong with preaching in other realms but what would the church's reaction be if a priest got deported for this?)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: dustole on March 26, 2012, 05:51:32 AM
It is a good thing Allison is in Zuma lands now to explain this whole situation to the Zuma along with stopping their war with Morek. 

Arresting a priest is not a simple thing.  You have to declare war on the realm that the priest belongs to.  So in order to arrest that pesky priest chances are you will have to declare war on a Theocracy of Sanguis Astroism to do it.  It is no easy think to arrest a priest.  Some serious consideration would have to go into it.  Madina is currently the only realm around who declared war on SA and wasn't destroyed outright.  Mainly because they were too far south and that was before the founding of Kabrinskia to bring the churches reach a little further south.  That is also the main reason the church just stood back and watched when they were begging for SA's help against Auvrindale.  Declaring war on an SA realm just to arrest a priest is a fairly risky move. 
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Penchant on March 26, 2012, 06:10:00 AM
Hmmm, not nessacarily. If a realm were to declare war on the grounds that they will fight that realm until the priest is gave to them or arrested, next turn the priest is arrested and peace made if the priest is also let free immediately as King Turin did say he was fine with a realm arresting a priest if they don't do anything to them like torture or execute.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: dustole on March 26, 2012, 06:40:20 AM
Hmmm, not nessacarily. If a realm were to declare war on the grounds that they will fight that realm until the priest is gave to them or arrested, next turn the priest is arrested and peace made if the priest is also let free immediately as King Turin did say he was fine with a realm arresting a priest if they don't do anything to them like torture or execute.


Turin is a bit of a softy.  There are many nobles in SA just looking for a reason for a war.  Any reason.  Turin is probably the one noble in a position where he couldn't do anything even if he wanted to.  He just has a poor location for warfare at this time. 

I still stand by the fact that any realm who declares war to simply arrest a priest is taking a big risk. Especially if you are the first realm to do it.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on March 26, 2012, 07:21:13 AM
Declaring war on a theocracy is indeed a risky move. But I would hope OOCly that players in Dwilight will be a mite bit less gang-bang happy than in, say, Atamara. I think distance partly contributes to this,

From an outsider's perspective, it looked like it took a [email protected]#$load of crap to get SA to actually productively work together against Thulsoma or Averoth.

Anyways, we'll see how this all plays out.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Penchant on March 26, 2012, 07:38:51 AM
Obviously a big risk, if I were to do it I would set up an agreement making temporary wars like that allowed upon by both realms so its not just a hope they will have peace but the word of the realm.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on March 26, 2012, 12:06:32 PM
Obviously a big risk, if I were to do it I would set up an agreement making temporary wars like that allowed upon by both realms so its not just a hope they will have peace but the word of the realm.

Temporary wars, to arrest a priest with no real consequences? Sounds awfully close to a friendly conflict and hardly SMA to me. I see a real problem with needing to declare war to arrest priest, but setting up agreements for a war deceleration to basically mean nothing is not a great way to handle it.

From the Wiki on SMA

Quote
No powergaming. If the only reason you do something is game-mechanics, you should probably not do it. No declarations of war if you don't actually intend to fight, for example. No "assassinate me so the bounty stays within our realm", etc.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: vonGenf on March 26, 2012, 12:35:11 PM
Temporary wars, to arrest a priest with no real consequences? Sounds awfully close to a friendly conflict and hardly SMA to me. I see a real problem with needing to declare war to arrest priest, but setting up agreements for a war deceleration to basically mean nothing is not a great way to handle it.

War with limited aims however are perfectly fine. You can say "I declare war with the objective to arrest this man and bring him to justice. Once that objective is achieved, I will accept a return to peace".

If you really want to be friendly, however, what you should do is ask the priests' judge to ban the priest, and then arrest the rogue. If the other judge refuses to comply, then yes, you should declare war with all the consequences that imply.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Feylonis on March 26, 2012, 12:47:55 PM
Sanguis Astroism theocracies will collectively declare war on any realm that threatens the expansion of their empire. They might not do it simultaneously, but they eventually will. To think otherwise would be an exercise of futility. You're looking at Astrum, Iashalur, Kabrinskia, Morek Empire, and Corsanctum. You should probably throw in Libero and Summerdale into that mix, too. It's best to just embrace the religion or to act like it's not there.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: vonGenf on March 26, 2012, 01:14:37 PM
or to act like it's not there.

You mean, for example, not including Asylon in your list of SA-ish realms?  ;)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on March 26, 2012, 01:56:02 PM
Some of you people really need to brush up on your game mechanics. As has been said it takes a war declaration to arrest a priest. You can't deport a priest (or anyone) without first banning them. You can't banish a foreign priest unless he was tossed in prison by the game itself while commiting a crime like inciting the peasants or performing an auto de fe. I.e. you cannot have a noble arrest a foreign priest and then have your judge ban them. You cannot cancel a war without agreement from both sides. A cease-fire constitutes improving relations which requires mutual consent. If you declare war you have to get the other side to agree to end it.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chenier on March 26, 2012, 02:21:51 PM
I think most would agree to that though what if a priest repeatedly gets arrested and the realm decides to deport the priest as a way for the priest to stop preaching there. (I understand the church says there is nothing wrong with preaching in other realms but what would the church's reaction be if a priest got deported for this?)

Some of you people really need to brush up on your game mechanics. As has been said it takes a war declaration to arrest a priest. You can't deport a priest (or anyone) without first banning them. You can't banish a foreign priest unless he was tossed in prison by the game itself while commiting a crime like inciting the peasants or performing an auto de fe. I.e. you cannot have a noble arrest a foreign priest and then have your judge ban them. You cannot cancel a war without agreement from both sides. A cease-fire constitutes improving relations which requires mutual consent. If you declare war you have to get the other side to agree to end it.

And not the least, you can NEVER deport a priest.

okay--non-SA realms will revoke passage rights for anyone from a SA realm.

We won't be prohibiting preaching, just calling you a trespasser.

That's what Machiavel said. "That's fine, SA is already allowed in our realm. That doesn't mean it gives any foreigner the right to tresspass and do as they wish".
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: vonGenf on March 26, 2012, 02:35:05 PM
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Iltaran on March 26, 2012, 02:58:18 PM
Really? Why? Priests won't get banned unless they use on of their most extremes options - I don't see why the game would not allow you to deport a banned priests who carelessly got caught a second time.

Priests can't leave their continent (either by emigrating or being deported), because they're linked to their specific religion and it only exists in the database for that continent. Technical issue.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: vonGenf on March 26, 2012, 03:00:13 PM
Priests can't leave their continent (either by emigrating or being deported), because they're linked to their specific religion and it only exists in the database for that continent. Technical issue.

Oh, ok. That wasn't obvious, but it makes sense.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Telrunya on March 26, 2012, 03:04:26 PM
Otherwise you'd need to force a class switch.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: vonGenf on March 26, 2012, 03:12:33 PM
But they can still be executed, right?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on March 26, 2012, 04:05:56 PM
Otherwise you'd need to force a class switch.

Which, IMO, should be permitted in this very special case; if the player really wants to be a priest, he can always join a religion on his new continent and switch back.

I have an equal problem with Elders not being able to kick priests out of a religion for this exact same reason, though that has been discussed elsewhere.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on March 26, 2012, 05:28:15 PM
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chaotrance13 on March 26, 2012, 06:05:01 PM
You know, I think I started channelling Alaron when I wrote his two recent letters to the church and to the elders regarding this whole thing. As in jabbing my finger on the table when thinking about points of my argument, and talking in a bit of a posh arguing voice.

I think I've finally cracked. But damn, that's the most fun caused by the game I've had in a while.

But anyway - while I am aware of the game mechanics regarding the arresting of Priests, I think Alaron was looking at it from a different standpoint. Such as that he was the Lord of a region, and what he says about the region goes unless otherwise said by his Duke or by the Ruler. Besides, if the game mechanics prohibit the arrest of a foreign priest without a war declaration, there is always the dagger...  ;D - After all, I did decide I wanted Alaron to be the nutcase of my family...
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: dustole on March 26, 2012, 06:32:30 PM
The most fun I have with Allison is when I do something controversial that gets other nobles to speak up and take part.  Alaron is a prime example.  Before this, I had no idea he even existed.  He brings a bit of fun to the events.  Even more so since a Magistratum helps me.  The 3 Lights would be my Judge /if/ the Elders even accept the magistratum.  I am quite confident that 2 out of 3 Lights will not convict me.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Penchant on March 26, 2012, 07:21:38 PM
Besides, if the game mechanics prohibit the arrest of a foreign priest without a war declaration, there is always the dagger...  ;D - After all, I did decide I wanted Alaron to be the nutcase of my family...
That is an interesting idea, if the priest won't listen to the realm's law and judge then take out the priest.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: dustole on March 26, 2012, 07:36:24 PM
Attacking a priest of SA might be more dangerous than simply declaring war and arresting them to return them to their realm.  There at least the priest isn't harmed. 
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Penchant on March 26, 2012, 07:50:15 PM
But if an infil doesn't get caught there is no harm and no chance of the priest coming back unlike just arresting, plus if he does get caught Dwilight has a war on its hands.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on March 26, 2012, 08:49:11 PM
But if an infil doesn't get caught there is no harm and no chance of the priest coming back unlike just arresting, plus if he does get caught Dwilight has a war on its hands.

Just because the infiltrator doesn't get caught doesn't mean that no one will be blamed. In fact it gives us considerably more leeway on the subject of who exactly we will choose to blame.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: egamma on March 26, 2012, 08:51:04 PM
Step 1: Post a nice 500 gold bounty on the priest. Bounties are anonymous.
Step 2: Let an infil from another realm know where the priest is--you certainly wouldn't want an infil from your own realm to stab them.
Step 3: make sure that all of your realms' nobles are out of the region when the stabbing occurs, for deniability.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: dustole on March 26, 2012, 08:56:12 PM
Step 1: Post a nice 500 gold bounty on the priest. Bounties are anonymous.
Step 2: Let an infil from another realm know where the priest is--you certainly wouldn't want an infil from your own realm to stab them.
Step 3: make sure that all of your realms' nobles are out of the region when the stabbing occurs, for deniability.


Genius.  Allison already has one of the highest bounties!  Stab away.  She is in Zuma lands right now so come get her!  I like drama.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on March 27, 2012, 01:19:23 AM
War with limited aims however are perfectly fine. You can say "I declare war with the objective to arrest this man and bring him to justice. Once that objective is achieved, I will accept a return to peace".

If you really want to be friendly, however, what you should do is ask the priests' judge to ban the priest, and then arrest the rogue. If the other judge refuses to comply, then yes, you should declare war with all the consequences that imply.

Yes, so long as you are actually going to FIGHT to cause the change you want. Declaring war with a understanding that the armies will never meet and that no looting or anything will be done, that is wrong.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chenier on March 27, 2012, 01:32:51 AM
Seriously?

That's annoying.

Yes, but you can execute them.

The real pain, imo, is that you can't kick a priest out of a church. That, along with not being able to demote people with bigger debts than the lower rank's maximum, are the two most broken things about guilds/religion in my eyes.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Dante Silverfire on March 27, 2012, 01:36:39 AM
So, SA is delayed in its conquering of the world. What is everyone to do now?

Also, since Allison is with the Zuma still, can we just feed her to them?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on March 27, 2012, 01:55:36 AM
Step 1: Post a nice 500 gold bounty on the priest. Bounties are anonymous.
Step 2: Let an infil from another realm know where the priest is--you certainly wouldn't want an infil from your own realm to stab them.
Step 3: make sure that all of your realms' nobles are out of the region when the stabbing occurs, for deniability.

Which won't come even remotely close to stopping us from blaming whoever we want. Could be the realm the infiltrator is from. Could be the realm that let a priest get assaulted within their borders. Or maybe we'll let it slide. It all depends on what our particular goals are at any given time, not to mention what's going on in the halls of the Church.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chenier on March 27, 2012, 02:04:04 AM
Which won't come even remotely close to stopping us from blaming whoever we want. Could be the realm the infiltrator is from. Could be the realm that let a priest get assaulted within their borders. Or maybe we'll let it slide. It all depends on what our particular goals are at any given time, not to mention what's going on in the halls of the Church.

All of this for a dude being, at worst, unable to read his messages for a day or so.

I don't mean to metagame and all, but infil attacks have only been used as justifications, not as dissuasion (at least, not successfully on other continents than the Colonies, and perhaps even there).
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on March 27, 2012, 02:35:51 AM
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on March 27, 2012, 02:42:03 AM
Yes, so long as you are actually going to FIGHT to cause the change you want. Declaring war with a understanding that the armies will never meet and that no looting or anything will be done, that is wrong.

Eh, I don't know.

Placing a standing kill order on all neighbors, but never actually invading them, doesn't seem un-SMA to me. Declaring war for the purpose of auto-engaging any errant neighbor seems like a lot of fun. Way more fun than sitting at neutral would be. That is to say, I would see nothing wrong with two realms basically deciding they find it intolerable to have the other realm's nobles or soldiers ever enter their land, and thus declaring war, even if they have no intention of conquest. War could be plausibly and SMAly declared with defensive aims.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on March 27, 2012, 02:44:12 AM
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Penchant on March 27, 2012, 02:59:23 AM
How often does an infil actually kill a noble when the infil attacks a noble?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chenier on March 27, 2012, 03:04:57 AM
How often does an infil actually kill a noble when the infil attacks a noble?

Never.

Not sure if that question was rhetorical or not.

BoM just lost their General to a infil. We were probably lucky that we were refitting and not in the middle of raiding.

Extremely rare occurence. The dude usually gets appointed/elected right back when it happens too.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on March 27, 2012, 03:11:47 AM
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chenier on March 27, 2012, 03:17:01 AM
AT must be the exception then, I'm seeing quite a few people lose positions to infils. Sure they get reappointed when they return but the damage during that time is pretty significant.

I haven't seen it happen in years, and there's been plenty of wars on BT and Dwi. Might have happened a few times without me noticing, but that just goes to say how much of an impact it had, especially if on BT as I was involved in most of the wars one way or another there.

The times I've seen people gone missing are usually due to capture in battle. Unless it's the general/marshal and he's the only active guy in command of the armies, it doesn't tend to harm much.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Perth on March 27, 2012, 03:21:52 AM
AT must be the exception then, I'm seeing quite a few people lose positions to infils. Sure they get reappointed when they return but the damage during that time is pretty significant.

Not really on the Eston/Darka/Talerium/CE front. But maybe that is because it is essentially a big stand still most of the time.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on March 27, 2012, 03:22:51 AM
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chaotrance13 on March 27, 2012, 04:25:23 AM
The most fun I have with Allison is when I do something controversial that gets other nobles to speak up and take part.  Alaron is a prime example.  Before this, I had no idea he even existed.  He brings a bit of fun to the events.  Even more so since a Magistratum helps me.  The 3 Lights would be my Judge /if/ the Elders even accept the magistratum.  I am quite confident that 2 out of 3 Lights will not convict me.

Indeed. I mean, the first hurdle is that the Magistratum is even convened. But, as you may have guessed from the last message I sent to the full members - there are two options at the moment. The first one is that Pierre goes ahead with this vote of his to have Allison removed with no trial whatsoever, though there is some outcry coming out at this right now. Because it isn't the three Lights who would have the only say in the verdict, that may pass. It may not as well, plus there is the possibility of the Prophet intervening.

But the second option is the Magistratum, which by your (and Allison's) reckoning would be an automatic "not guilty" verdict. Perhaps slightly unwittingly, Alaron's given you a lifeline. If (and only if) the Magistratum goes ahead, and you are acquitted as you say, then you're practically untouchable bar the Regent misusing his own powers to remove you as a Consul.

And as far as Alaron requesting the Magistratum? Well, if it goes ahead and you're found not guilty - that's due process and he'd have nothing to complain about. Although there might be something in the future no doubt. As for running as a Consul himself, well from what I recall when the last election came around, someone basically said that it was not a position for anyone who was not well established in the religion already. Personally, I think that's rubbish as sometimes you need a fresh outlook on things. But we'll see.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: vonGenf on March 27, 2012, 08:47:32 AM
Ibar the Regent misusing his own powers to remove you as a Consul.

The pointer hovered over there for a few seconds. I almost twitched.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chenier on March 27, 2012, 01:45:14 PM
So you mean it is a problem for about 60-70% of the realms in the game.

Nowadays, perhaps.

But all other instances of wounding fail to cause great damage in the vast majority of cases (unless context dictates otherwise, such as a ruler needing to negotiate with others). The number of generals who lose those positions for any period of time (and who don't have an alt as vice-marshal) is probably infinitely small.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chaotrance13 on March 27, 2012, 03:01:28 PM
The pointer hovered over there for a few seconds. I almost twitched.

Eh? There's no spelling mistake in the actual post, if that's what's causing the almost-twitching.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: vonGenf on March 27, 2012, 03:07:17 PM
Eh? There's no spelling mistake in the actual post, if that's what's causing the almost-twitching.

Huh? No, I mean I almost abused my power and demoted Allison. I probably couldn't get away with it, though, but there have been occasions in the past when I considered whether I should click a link or not, only to realize that I had clicked it anyway.

It's all fun and games, it's ok to be trigger-happy sometimes....
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chaotrance13 on March 27, 2012, 03:39:05 PM
Huh? No, I mean I almost abused my power and demoted Allison. I probably couldn't get away with it, though, but there have been occasions in the past when I considered whether I should click a link or not, only to realize that I had clicked it anyway.

It's all fun and games, it's ok to be trigger-happy sometimes....

Ah, now I understand. My apologies. But yes, all fun and games. It provides us something to do in this time of relative peace.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Penchant on March 27, 2012, 06:19:23 PM
O it would be funny if you did demote and you said you had the papers made for the removal of position but have no idea that they were used before the vote was over. Also isn't rather unfair for the  defendant to get to vote on their own case, because no one is going to say "hmm, I should get myself removed from office and banned for the next five years."
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: dustole on March 27, 2012, 07:24:26 PM
Isnt it a bit unfair for the accuser to vote in favor of removing Allison?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: vonGenf on March 27, 2012, 07:37:23 PM
Isnt it a bit unfair for the accuser to vote in favor of removing Allison?

...fair? What's that? Never heard of the Fair Star. If there ever was one, Allison buried it deep way before my time and burned the map.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Dante Silverfire on March 27, 2012, 07:50:25 PM
Isnt it a bit unfair for the accuser to vote in favor of removing Allison?

Isn't it a bit unfair to universally state what all other religions, realms, and nobles must do, simply because you choose to?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: dustole on March 27, 2012, 07:53:17 PM
Haha!  Allison is untouchable
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Dante Silverfire on March 27, 2012, 08:05:58 PM
Haha!  Allison is untouchable

That's what you think.

I've only just arrived to this side of the continent. :)

Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chaotrance13 on March 27, 2012, 08:25:15 PM
Haha!  Allison is untouchable

Well, I don't know about that. We'll see. ;)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on March 27, 2012, 08:41:47 PM
"Fair" doesn't apply to non-Astroists. They all deserve whatever fate we decree for them. :P
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chaotrance13 on March 27, 2012, 09:00:54 PM
Well, the Magistratum is going ahead. Though whether it was caused by Alaron's petition or Pierre's use of his authority is unclear. Yes, I know Pierre said it was down to my petition, but as has been established, the procedures regarding the Magistratum and full members petitioning the elders have been deemed to be "murky".

Either way.. I had a hand in something for once. I think I'm enjoying the politics of the Church quite a lot now.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on March 27, 2012, 09:28:38 PM
Careful, it's addicting. In my own experience, there's no other political forum like it in the entire game. It's multi-realm (twelve realms and counting!), and open to all full members, of which there are currently 70. Granted, when things heat up keeping up with the message traffic can be a full time job, but it's just so much *fun*.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on March 27, 2012, 10:27:26 PM
Careful, it's addicting. In my own experience, there's no other political forum like it in the entire game. It's multi-realm (twelve realms and counting!), and open to all full members, of which there are currently 70. Granted, when things heat up keeping up with the message traffic can be a full time job, but it's just so much *fun*.

Ya'll are makin' me jealous.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on March 27, 2012, 10:40:35 PM
Ya'll are makin' me jealous.

It's way cooler than the 'Moot. Yeah, that's right. I said it.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: dustole on March 28, 2012, 12:08:46 AM
I love Magistratum trials.  I face them somewhat regularly.  I always seem to win.  :)  I am confident that I will win this Magistratum as well.  When that is over I will run for the Regency.  If that doesn't piss off my enemies within SA I don't know what will. 
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chaotrance13 on March 28, 2012, 12:42:26 AM
I love Magistratum trials.  I face them somewhat regularly.  I always seem to win.  :)  I am confident that I will win this Magistratum as well.  When that is over I will run for the Regency.  If that doesn't piss off my enemies within SA I don't know what will.

And I'll probably run for Consul. And if anyone plays the "haven't been around long enough" card, I will tell them to bugger off. I think six months plus OOCly, and watching the discussions as well as being involved in the latest one gives me some qualification. Plus there is that pilgrimage in D'Hara I'm on right now as well.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: dustole on March 28, 2012, 12:46:49 AM
Might be tough.  I am lining up my 3 Consuls now and going to campaign to get them in.  In the past I have been able to easily get 2 Consuls elected.  This will be the first time I will try for 3. 

I am finding people who will support Allison as Regent and then I will put all of my influence and political might behind getting them elected as Consul.  If my election math is right, I just need to get 1 Consul elected that will support Allison and I have enough other votes in the SA Council to get me elected as Regent. 
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: OFaolain on March 28, 2012, 12:51:35 AM
Eoghan's going to try running again this time, too.  Hard to garner support when I've no real idea how to play politics; I could always point fingers at everyone else and say "Look at all those guys, they're crazy!  Vote for me, I'm the reasonable one!"
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chaotrance13 on March 28, 2012, 12:59:45 AM
Might be tough.  I am lining up my 3 Consuls now and going to campaign to get them in.  In the past I have been able to easily get 2 Consuls elected.  This will be the first time I will try for 3. 

I am finding people who will support Allison as Regent and then I will put all of my influence and political might behind getting them elected as Consul.  If my election math is right, I just need to get 1 Consul elected that will support Allison and I have enough other votes in the SA Council to get me elected as Regent.

You were the one who suggested I run ICly.. ;)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: dustole on March 28, 2012, 01:01:36 AM
You were the one who suggested I run ICly.. ;)


Of course.  I'm trying to make you like Allison.  She needs your votes for other Consuls!   :)  The more people that run the better chance I have of getting my 3 in.  Splits up the votes.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Solari on March 28, 2012, 03:59:35 AM
It's way cooler than the 'Moot. Yeah, that's right. I said it.

To the 'Moot's credit, it is the subject of much discussion in general, IC.  Kudos on that.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: De-Legro on March 28, 2012, 04:09:01 AM
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Lefanis on March 28, 2012, 05:40:09 AM
The pointer hovered over there for a few seconds. I almost twitched.

Wimp.

You could do a lot more than just demote, you know  ;)


Never mind, noticed she still has that priestly protection there.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Penchant on March 28, 2012, 06:10:03 AM
Hmm, perhaps a change that could be done for priests to be able to be kicked out of their religion is if they are kicked out they preach local folklore or whatever it is that the standard religion is for a region before any priest preaches there.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: OFaolain on March 28, 2012, 08:08:19 AM
Nobody is responding to anything I have to say! T-T
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: dustole on March 28, 2012, 08:16:56 AM
Nobody is responding to anything I have to say! T-T

Your responses are fairly neutral.  I am saving my remarks for those that I can more easily disprove.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chenier on March 28, 2012, 01:33:34 PM
Hmm, perhaps a change that could be done for priests to be able to be kicked out of their religion is if they are kicked out they preach local folklore or whatever it is that the standard religion is for a region before any priest preaches there.

Apparently it's intended, you can look for this very discussion.

I still think it's pretty damn stupid.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on March 28, 2012, 04:16:54 PM
Eoghan's going to try running again this time, too.  Hard to garner support when I've no real idea how to play politics; I could always point fingers at everyone else and say "Look at all those guys, they're crazy!  Vote for me, I'm the reasonable one!"

You just need to lobby the right people. Starting with any of your realm mates who are full members is a good bet. Getting elected in BM is just like getting elected in the real world; you have to put yourself out there, press the flesh, and lobby as many individual people as you can for their votes. It also doesn't hurt to get people with influence to endorse you.

You'll also want a platform. "Here's what I stand for, and what I'll do if I'm elected" is a good start. "Here's what's wrong with the system and here's what I intend to do to make it better" is another viable approach. Eoghan actually probably has a decent shot at election. He's known to most of the membership at this point and he's generally taken the high road on the issues he weighs in on. Nothing to drag down your reputation, and plenty of evidence that he's a reasonable, well-spoken individual.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chaotrance13 on March 28, 2012, 05:11:46 PM
You just need to lobby the right people. Starting with any of your realm mates who are full members is a good bet. Getting elected in BM is just like getting elected in the real world; you have to put yourself out there, press the flesh, and lobby as many individual people as you can for their votes. It also doesn't hurt to get people with influence to endorse you.

You'll also want a platform. "Here's what I stand for, and what I'll do if I'm elected" is a good start. "Here's what's wrong with the system and here's what I intend to do to make it better" is another viable approach. Eoghan actually probably has a decent shot at election. He's known to most of the membership at this point and he's generally taken the high road on the issues he weighs in on. Nothing to drag down your reputation, and plenty of evidence that he's a reasonable, well-spoken individual.


Sage advice. Alaron, in contrast to Eoghan, is more of a maverick (I hate using that word, but it applies here). He is slowly finding his voice and becoming more active and vocal, as can be seen. For example, the pilgrimage to D'Hara, and of course the whole thing about the Magistratum. Given what he's hearing from Allison now, I wonder whether standing on a reform and/or anti-corruption platform would do him any favours. However, he is slightly unstable - the whole thing about removing foreign priests with the dagger probably does him no credit, even when he tried to frame it as being his prerogative as a Lord to allow or forbid preaching as he saw fit.

As far as campaigning.. well, he's sort of well-known within his army and usually volunteers for special assignments, so that may provide some backing. Also been a Lord for most of his time in Astrum, helping to rebuild his region. So at least he has evidence of taking action to fix things. Still might be difficult though. But it certainly will be fun.

On that note, what would it take to secure Lysander's backing? Name your price. ;D
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on March 28, 2012, 05:26:55 PM
Sage advice. Alaron, in contrast to Eoghan, is more of a maverick (I hate using that word, but it applies here). He is slowly finding his voice and becoming more active and vocal, as can be seen. For example, the pilgrimage to D'Hara, and of course the whole thing about the Magistratum. Given what he's hearing from Allison now, I wonder whether standing on a reform and/or anti-corruption platform would do him any favours. However, he is slightly unstable - the whole thing about removing foreign priests with the dagger probably does him no credit, even when he tried to frame it as being his prerogative as a Lord to allow or forbid preaching as he saw fit.

As far as campaigning.. well, he's sort of well-known within his army and usually volunteers for special assignments, so that may provide some backing. Also been a Lord for most of his time in Astrum, helping to rebuild his region. So at least he has evidence of taking action to fix things. Still might be difficult though. But it certainly will be fun.

On that note, what would it take to secure Lysander's backing? Name your price. ;D

You should contact him IC if you want to know whether he would support you  8)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on March 28, 2012, 05:27:03 PM
@penchant: there will *never* be priests of paganism, or priests who are not members of a player-created religion. This has been firmly rejected.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Penchant on March 28, 2012, 06:47:34 PM
Ok, just trying to find a way to kick priests out of a religion so they can't use it as protection while not forcing a class change.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chenier on March 28, 2012, 11:17:46 PM
Ok, just trying to find a way to kick priests out of a religion so they can't use it as protection while not forcing a class change.

I personally see no reason to not just kick them back into warriors. It's the default class, after all, and if they don't represent the church they won't be needing any priest-specific actions.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: dustole on March 28, 2012, 11:29:29 PM
I think kicking out priests should wait until we have some sort of Schism ability.  There should be consequences to kicking out a priest.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on March 29, 2012, 12:08:30 AM
I think kicking out priests should wait until we have some sort of Schism ability.  There should be consequences to kicking out a priest.

You say, thinking of how many times this might have happened to Allison.

But, what about griefers? We had a priest in SA at one point who was fairly obviously working with enemies of the Church, but we couldn't touch him just because of his class. Heck, we still can't touch him now that he's resurfaced. We can and have banned him from the theocratic realms, but it annoys me that he is essentially an untouchable spy in the full membership. If he wanted to make life unpleasant for us by haranguing or mocking us constantly, he could and we couldn't do anything about it. IMO a religion needs to be able to control who represents it; when someone is obviously not aligned with the goals of the religion, or even aligned directly against them, religions need a recourse to be able to simply kick him out. The Vatican sure as hell can defrock people; why can't we?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chenier on March 29, 2012, 12:10:20 AM
You say, thinking of how many times this might have happened to Allison.

But, what about griefers? We had a priest in SA at one point who was fairly obviously working with enemies of the Church, but we couldn't touch him just because of his class. Heck, we still can't touch him now that he's resurfaced. We can and have banned him from the theocratic realms, but it annoys me that he is essentially an untouchable spy in the full membership. If he wanted to make life unpleasant for us by haranguing or mocking us constantly, he could and we couldn't do anything about it. IMO a religion needs to be able to control who represents it; when someone is obviously not aligned with the goals of the religion, or even aligned directly against them, religions need a recourse to be able to simply kick him out. The Vatican sure as hell can defrock people; why can't we?

Indeed.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: dustole on March 29, 2012, 12:18:19 AM
The Catholic church doesn't kick people out with an excommunication. 

definition:  to sentence (a member of the Church) to exclusion from the communion of believers and from the privileges and public prayers of the Church

If a priest gets excommunicated they don't suddenly stop being a catholic priest.  They would still preach Christianity.  Sure they couldn't go to rome and kiss the popes ring, but they don't stop being a priest.  The rogue SA priest you speak of is essentially excommunicated.  Any Theocratic realm he ends up in is going to ban him.  He will be ignored by most when speaking in the church.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: BardicNerd on March 29, 2012, 12:57:15 AM
If a priest gets excommunicated they don't suddenly stop being a catholic priest.  They would still preach Christianity.  Sure they couldn't go to rome and kiss the popes ring, but they don't stop being a priest.  The rogue SA priest you speak of is essentially excommunicated.  Any Theocratic realm he ends up in is going to ban him.  He will be ignored by most when speaking in the church.
Actually, yes, they do.  They could call themselves a priest, but legally they would not be, and they would not be a member of the Catholic (big C, is an important difference) Church, and thus would not be a Catholic priest even if they started their own religion or joined another one . . . they'd be some other sort of priest.

The Catholic Church, along with other churches, also has a procedure known as defrocking, which does not excommunicate someone, but simply removes them from being a priest (or other ordained ministry).
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chenier on March 29, 2012, 03:10:44 AM
Actually, yes, they do.  They could call themselves a priest, but legally they would not be, and they would not be a member of the Catholic (big C, is an important difference) Church, and thus would not be a Catholic priest even if they started their own religion or joined another one . . . they'd be some other sort of priest.

The Catholic Church, along with other churches, also has a procedure known as defrocking, which does not excommunicate someone, but simply removes them from being a priest (or other ordained ministry).

Exactly. They would be christian priests if they want to, sure, but not Catholic priests. In the days, an excommunicated person was a persona non grata of the lowest social status.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Velax on March 30, 2012, 07:20:05 AM
Eoghan's going to try running again this time, too.  Hard to garner support when I've no real idea how to play politics; I could always point fingers at everyone else and say "Look at all those guys, they're crazy!  Vote for me, I'm the reasonable one!"

It's so weird seeing people use my not-particularly-common real name to talk about a character IC. I saw this post and thought, "Wait, what? What am I running for?"
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Penchant on March 30, 2012, 07:32:16 AM
You have a pretty cool name then. :)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: OFaolain on March 30, 2012, 07:39:24 AM
It's so weird seeing people use my not-particularly-common real name to talk about a character IC. I saw this post and thought, "Wait, what? What am I running for?"

I think you sent me an OOC message about that in-game, too. 8)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Velax on March 30, 2012, 07:49:58 AM
Hah, I did. How do you pronounce your character's name, out of curiosity?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: OFaolain on March 30, 2012, 04:08:01 PM
Hah, I did. How do you pronounce your character's name, out of curiosity?

I always pronounce it "Owen", though I think it can also be pronounced "Ewan", as in "Obi-wan Kenobi".  :P
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: JPierreD on March 30, 2012, 06:16:57 PM
I always pronounce it "Owen", though I think it can also be pronounced "Ewan", as in "Obi-wan Kenobi".  :P

I kinda read it as "Yogan" or "Johann"...
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Velax on March 30, 2012, 07:48:02 PM
The proper pronunciation is Oh-han, with the emphasis on the first syllable and a very short, almost non-existent 'a' sound in the second syllable. But I just use "Owen", as it's easier and is the anglicised version of that name.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: dustole on March 31, 2012, 06:49:32 PM
Woot Woot!  War!!
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on March 31, 2012, 09:28:15 PM
Honk honk yo tech-9 in the air my homies... Ok war this fun!
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: OFaolain on April 02, 2012, 09:04:31 AM
Eoghan's been captured by rogues and is still in jail, what news from the Riddermark?  Is Allison excommunicated (again) yet?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Lefanis on April 02, 2012, 09:09:52 AM
Eoghan's been captured by rogues and is still in jail, what news from the Riddermark?  Is Allison excommunicated (again) yet?

Nope. Now there is a insult slugfest between Karibash and Turin/Thomas. I'm enjoying it.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: T Strike on April 02, 2012, 01:36:34 PM
Yeah, now i'm arguing with him. Funny stuff.. I called him old man and stuff feels so good!!!! No offense to him in real life though... I'm sure he is a handsome gent with an amazing wife that models everyday of her life. *wink* *wink* good job ;)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: BarticaBoat on April 04, 2012, 08:00:05 AM
Nope. Now there is a insult slugfest between Karibash and Turin/Thomas. I'm enjoying it.

I'm glad, Karibash is hella mad though. My one issue is that dates have been goofed, I left Averoth before Saxons existed in Thulsoma ;_; it's ancient history for everyone else, but to me it's still fresh...
thomas is dodging the duel, saying he's on business in solaria but i'm looking forward to dueling Turin. And you. Get ready!
i think my insults and threats have been pretty good, yes?

Yeah, now i'm arguing with him. Funny stuff.. I called him old man and stuff feels so good!!!! No offense to him in real life though... I'm sure he is a handsome gent with an amazing wife that models everyday of her life. *wink* *wink* good job ;)

Ironically, I'm a 20 year old university student. I hope you're ready to duel, Karibash is not going to forget. He's been semi-retired for a while, and to have all these young'uns suddenly doubting him is pretty much the best way to get him explode back into south-east kill everything mode. I believe I am to duel you as well, and you're in Astrum too so you can't run  ;)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: OFaolain on April 04, 2012, 08:36:38 AM
Man, I wish Eoghan wasn't jailed for the duration of all that.  Sounds like crazy things went down while I was out.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: T Strike on April 04, 2012, 04:02:22 PM
I'm glad, Karibash is hella mad though. My one issue is that dates have been goofed, I left Averoth before Saxons existed in Thulsoma ;_; it's ancient history for everyone else, but to me it's still fresh...
thomas is dodging the duel, saying he's on business in solaria but i'm looking forward to dueling Turin. And you. Get ready!
i think my insults and threats have been pretty good, yes?

Ironically, I'm a 20 year old university student. I hope you're ready to duel, Karibash is not going to forget. He's been semi-retired for a while, and to have all these young'uns suddenly doubting him is pretty much the best way to get him explode back into south-east kill everything mode. I believe I am to duel you as well, and you're in Astrum too so you can't run  ;)

Eh, time for Ekirt to die I guess I need to bring another noble to Westmoor. Your Saxon buddies have arrived in Fontan. ;)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on April 04, 2012, 08:19:28 PM
The Army of the Maddening Star (Kabrinskia), sponsored by Lady Allison Kabrinski, Priestess of Sanguis Astroism, Grandmistress of Kabrinskia, Duchess of the Maddening Star, Margravine of Golden Farrow, Ambassador of Kabrinskia

Now that's a title.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Sacha on April 04, 2012, 08:22:43 PM

thomas is dodging the duel, saying he's on business in solaria but i'm looking forward to dueling Turin. And you. Get ready!
i think my insults and threats have been pretty good, yes?


Ugh, Thomas... we don't want him anymore, can you please take him back?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: dustole on April 16, 2012, 08:22:05 PM
Why do nobles like to accuse Allison of wrongdoing?  It seems she can't sneeze without it being some sort of conspiracy and have a Magistratum called.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on April 16, 2012, 08:26:28 PM
Because she's usually up to something sneaky and underhanded.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Dante Silverfire on April 16, 2012, 10:05:14 PM
Because she's usually up to something sneaky and underhanded.

I've really got to get to know this Allison. Brom and her could make great friends.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on April 16, 2012, 10:15:43 PM
Why do nobles like to accuse Allison of wrongdoing?  It seems she can't sneeze without it being some sort of conspiracy and have a Magistratum called.

lol, is there another Magistratum being called? lulz.

Here's hoping Kabrinskia is thrown into spiritual and political chaos at the height of a war.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Dante Silverfire on April 16, 2012, 10:17:13 PM
lol, is there another Magistratum being called? lulz.

Here's hoping Kabrinskia is thrown into spiritual and political chaos at the height of a war.

No they need to wait and do that until after Kabrinskia provokes the full-scale war, so that they can actually lose stuff.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: BardicNerd on April 16, 2012, 10:36:07 PM
Don't tell anyone, but I'm actually supposed to be leading a Magistratum right now, only I haven't gotten all the other Lights to respond yet.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chaotrance13 on April 16, 2012, 10:38:28 PM
lol, is there another Magistratum being called? lulz.

Here's hoping Kabrinskia is thrown into spiritual and political chaos at the height of a war.

I don't even know what's going on with the first Magistratum regarding Allison's alleged abuse of status/power. Now people are trying to accuse her of manipulating the elections by telling people how to vote...
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Meneldur on April 16, 2012, 10:53:17 PM
I love how all the Allisonites are acting so outraged at all the accusations of corruption- as I recall it, such accusations against the Elders were Allison's specialty back in the day.

Then again she got away with it and the Elders are apparently unable to do the same, so she obviously did something right. I am definitely enjoying not being an Elder atm  ;D
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: OFaolain on April 17, 2012, 12:32:34 AM
The Elders didn't have a horde of followers to speak up on their behalf, since they were mostly quiet except when they made decisions.  Allison, however, has her entire country backing her up and has proven quite apt at whipping them into a fervour.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on April 17, 2012, 02:00:35 AM
You know what it is: Allison just works harder than everyone else. It's not easy getting so many people willing to follow you. The other Elders who oppose Allison have certainly never bothered. You don't play the game, don't complain when you lose  :)

I have been trying to explain this to certain others. Fortunately Lysander doesn't much care. Allison winning the Regency might even be a good thing by his lights, it remains to be seen.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on April 17, 2012, 03:08:37 AM
As controversial as Allison is I thank the stars she is IG or I would die of boredom. Most people want to defeat Allison and see her banished far away or dead. In the past I was like that to but realized the best way to beat Allison is to join Allison in her merry making, trouble making... Because when Allison destroys Dwilight one day in some epic war or trickery..  There will only be a few nobles left standing and I plan on being one of them. Friend or foe I am going to help Allison sew chaos and destruction all the while. Dwilight and BM is best played as a dramatic tragedy.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Penchant on April 17, 2012, 03:29:50 AM
As controversial as Allison is I thank the stars she is IG or I would die of boredom. Most people want to defeat Allison and see her banished far away or dead. In the past I was like that to but realized the best way to beat Allison is to join Allison in her merry making, trouble making... Because when Allison destroys Dwilight one day in some epic war or trickery..  There will only be a few nobles left standing and I plan on being one of them. Friend or foe I am going to help Allison sew chaos and destruction all the while. Dwilight and BM is best played as a dramatic tragedy.
Says the one defending Terran from Kabrinskia...though I am glad you are but the two things seem to contradict each other
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on April 17, 2012, 03:33:40 AM
Most of you have very singular plots and paths that wind down roads of black or white... Glaumring wanders complex trails of grey.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on April 17, 2012, 03:51:19 AM
IOW: He's lost. :P
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on April 17, 2012, 03:52:37 AM
Perhaps...  8)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Daycryn on April 17, 2012, 06:45:49 AM
Why do nobles like to accuse Allison of wrongdoing?  It seems she can't sneeze without it being some sort of conspiracy and have a Magistratum called.

This last case, aka 'She RECOMMENDED people! IN SECRET! MANIPULATIVEPOWERABUSEEVILHERESYYYY!' is, at best, boy-who-cried-wolf. Whether she did or didn't do something in the past before my character was around it's a bit silly. It actually works in her favor when her opponents overreact to every little thing, because, again, boy who cried wolf scenario.

And no, Allison does not whip her nobles into any kind of frenzy when it comes to defending against the attacks within the SA on her person. It kind of happens naturally.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: vonGenf on April 17, 2012, 09:32:47 AM
Whether she did or didn't do something in the past before my character was around it's a bit silly. It actually works in her favor when her opponents overreact to every little thing, because, again, boy who cried wolf scenario.

Are you sure you're not in the Little Red Riding Hood's third house ?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Sacha on April 17, 2012, 11:55:24 AM
This last case, aka 'She RECOMMENDED people! IN SECRET! MANIPULATIVEPOWERABUSEEVILHERESYYYY!' is, at best, boy-who-cried-wolf. Whether she did or didn't do something in the past before my character was around it's a bit silly. It actually works in her favor when her opponents overreact to every little thing, because, again, boy who cried wolf scenario.

And no, Allison does not whip her nobles into any kind of frenzy when it comes to defending against the attacks within the SA on her person. It kind of happens naturally.

The crazy is contagious eh :p
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Penchant on April 25, 2012, 03:20:01 AM
Ugh, know we have some people from Summerdale complaining about the bug basically but in-character. "They must have used witchcraft to convert the loyal militia to work for Libero, we need to investigate and punish not only the one who committed it but possibly the queen of his realm too." -not actually a quote but a sum of what I have been hearing.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on April 25, 2012, 03:21:25 AM
Hey, play through the bug. Gotta make up some IC reason for what happened. And if you can get a reason to declare war on someone else out of it, sound even better to me.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Marlboro on April 25, 2012, 03:21:59 AM
Ugh, know we have some people from Summerdale complaining about the bug basically but in-character. "They must have used witchcraft to convert the loyal militia to work for Libero, we need to investigate and punish not only the one who committed it but possibly the queen of his realm too." -not actually a quote but a sum of what I have been hearing.

*Expression slowly morphs into troll-faced glee.*
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Penchant on April 25, 2012, 03:27:45 AM
Hey, play through the bug. Gotta make up some IC reason for what happened. And if you can get a reason to declare war on someone else out of it, sound even better to me.
Well don't really see a way for it to produce a war considering the two realms are already at war. Though I guess if the Summerdale nobles were annoying enough they could cause the other SA realms to gang up on them.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Broose on April 25, 2012, 03:46:10 AM
Ugh, know we have some people from Summerdale complaining about the bug basically but in-character. "They must have used witchcraft to convert the loyal militia to work for Libero, we need to investigate and punish not only the one who committed it but possibly the queen of his realm too." -not actually a quote but a sum of what I have been hearing.

I'm insulted that you would imply our roleplay is just 'complaining about the bug, but in-character.' The only reason I brought it up was because one of our knights insulted some Libero nobles and I thought I'd follow up on it when someone asked him to apologize. I thought reviving some of the tension between SA and Summerdale might actually be interesting, but I'm glad to see my efforts are being dismissed as OOC whining.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Daycryn on April 25, 2012, 04:10:04 AM
OOC I may know that this was a bug or whatever, but IC, Rabisu believes there may indeed be some great evils and will gladly travel there to burn whoever's responsible.

Absolutely nothing can go wrong with this.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Penchant on April 25, 2012, 05:07:42 AM
I'm insulted that you would imply our roleplay is just 'complaining about the bug, but in-character.' The only reason I brought it up was because one of our knights insulted some Libero nobles and I thought I'd follow up on it when someone asked him to apologize. I thought reviving some of the tension between SA and Summerdale might actually be interesting, but I'm glad to see my efforts are being dismissed as OOC whining.
Sorry if I came off kinda agrresive, and I  guess it should be addressed in-game.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: OFaolain on April 25, 2012, 06:00:52 AM
I'm seeing what I can do about it IC, but I fully expect my remark about passing it to the Office of Austere should get them even more riled up; whoopsie. Oh wait, I changed that from "Office of Austere" to "Elder Council" before sending it.  Well, we'll see where this goes when the Dalians come back, but Glaumring certainly isn't helping calm things down (what else is new  :P).
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Velax on April 25, 2012, 06:39:10 AM
Ugh, know we have some people from Summerdale complaining about the bug basically but in-character. "They must have used witchcraft to convert the loyal militia to work for Libero, we need to investigate and punish not only the one who committed it but possibly the queen of his realm too." -not actually a quote but a sum of what I have been hearing.

A bug gave you a free region and a ton of militia. I suggest you be grateful rather than whining about the other side's completely justified frustration.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Broose on April 25, 2012, 07:58:49 AM
Sorry if I came off kinda agrresive, and I  guess it should be addressed in-game.
It's fine, I just don't want anyone to get the wrong idea and think I'm using the letters to complain about an OOC issue.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Arrakis on April 25, 2012, 10:54:55 AM
The bug interpretation where Orris is labelled as a sorcerer with an old witch/hag as his assistant is a marvelous storytelling. One of the Summerdalian nobles first came up with it in a roleplay, and pretty much everyone has fallen into it (myself included - gonna be placin' some gold on that sorcerer's head!). Nothing wrong going on here.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Lefanis on April 25, 2012, 11:12:05 AM
Snip.

Traitor! You killed off poor Leopold! :(
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Arrakis on April 25, 2012, 11:58:22 AM
Just paused him :) If anything at all was going on in Iashalur I would've sticked by, but there is nothing and there was no drive to change that. I might return one day although the way this Summerdale experience is going, I doubt it. :)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Penchant on April 25, 2012, 02:31:12 PM
A bug gave you a free region and a ton of militia. I suggest you be grateful rather than whining about the other side's completely justified frustration.
I am a D'hara, not of Summerdale or Libero Empire so this bug does not affect me, I know of the complaints which after thinking about it myself should be brought up because it was a strange occurence IC that should be dealt with actually.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Brant on April 25, 2012, 04:13:54 PM
The other thing I wonder...   why the big "how dare you"  about witchcraft accusations?   Maybe I'm wrong but I can't see where magic use was forbidden or where it obtained such a stigma from.   Probably that damned bloodmoon fruit.   
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: vonGenf on April 25, 2012, 04:31:23 PM
The other thing I wonder...   why the big "how dare you"  about witchcraft accusations?   Maybe I'm wrong but I can't see where magic use was forbidden or where it obtained such a stigma from.   Probably that damned bloodmoon fruit.

You may be witnessing how stigma form in the first place!  :D
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on April 25, 2012, 07:19:29 PM
Everything is a weapon... Absolutely everything. Its only when people realize that they are being attacked in an obscure and intangible way does it confuse and anger, to realize that no where is safe and even words and ideas as deadly as knives...
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: ^ban^ on April 26, 2012, 01:20:01 AM
The other thing I wonder...   why the big "how dare you"  about witchcraft accusations?   Maybe I'm wrong but I can't see where magic use was forbidden or where it obtained such a stigma from.   Probably that damned bloodmoon fruit.   

Witchcraft is how we roleplayed the things cheaters did back in the day.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on April 26, 2012, 02:33:47 AM
Yeah same for when we played UO. Glitches etc all works of the gods or witchcraft.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: OFaolain on April 26, 2012, 10:06:56 AM
Just paused him :) If anything at all was going on in Iashalur I would've sticked by, but there is nothing and there was no drive to change that. I might return one day although the way this Summerdale experience is going, I doubt it. :)

I was going to see about doing some long-range work from Samhain duchy if we *ever* actually got the nobles to take it.  Make it a seat of power for the Order of the Palm so the organization can actually do things, if I could get Turin to agree to it.  Blech, can't expand without more nobles, can't get more nobles without things to do; 'tis a vicious cycle.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Arrakis on April 26, 2012, 12:04:56 PM
Yeah, I had some really neat plans in regards to guilds too and some other culturally interesting things. Too bad they didn't live, aka too bad I don't wanna grow old waiting to get the chance to do them.

Problem with new players in Iashalur should be a bit better now with all the influx of new players, however, I see you're still stuck below 20. The reasons for that are not just a boring geography but also the atmosphere of the realm and how attractive the realm is. I mean, Iashalur has that default banner for ages now, how hard it is to get that thing changed?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Penchant on April 26, 2012, 02:27:46 PM
I was going to see about doing some long-range work from Samhain duchy if we *ever* actually got the nobles to take it.  Make it a seat of power for the Order of the Palm so the organization can actually do things, if I could get Turin to agree to it.  Blech, can't expand without more nobles, can't get more nobles without things to do; 'tis a vicious cycle.

What actually happens in the Order of the Palm?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on April 26, 2012, 03:37:38 PM
Iashulars banner is the suck. And the massive SA alliances make for dull game. I think the alliance was useful for fighting Caerwyn after that there just is no point. The alliance is already fractured idealogically anyways.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on April 26, 2012, 03:45:01 PM
And it will fracture more if need be to keep things interesting. It's not very useful outside of the north anyway. The eastern and western halves are too far apart to help each other effectively unless, as was the case with Averoth, the enemy happens to be right in between them.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Adriddae on April 26, 2012, 07:07:05 PM
What's all this talk about secularism? Did Medieval people really separate church and secular issues like this?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: vonGenf on April 26, 2012, 07:43:10 PM
If you are thinking about their philosophical worldview, then probably not.

If the question you are asking is "was it possible that one catholic goes to war against another without a crusade being declared on them", then I think you got your answer..... The Pope had enough with his own wars that he did not meddle in all the other ones. Some, but not all.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on April 26, 2012, 10:22:40 PM
The issue lately is that no one on SA will fight another SA , and then if they do they try to get a crusade called on eschother. Its part of the reason why Asylon went to war with Kabrinskia, to show Astroists that its ok to fight. I know we are still using an alliance but I wouldnt really have one if we didnt have to worry about fighting all of SA , since that isnt happening we will not ally with anymore kingdoms and even review allainces, or merely have short term goal alliances, instead of sweeping long term alliances.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Adriddae on April 26, 2012, 10:26:57 PM
The way I see it, SA priests should take the sides of their realm, and not stay neutral in any conflict. I would love to see priests on both side of the Summerdale/Libero war using the peasants to help win the war. Who's side is the Bloodstars on?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on April 26, 2012, 11:15:36 PM
I haven't seen a crusade called on any SA state that declares war on another one, so I don't see where this is coming from...
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on April 26, 2012, 11:38:48 PM
I agree with Gustav. We've had two crusades called, and they we're Averoth and Thulsoma.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Zakilevo on April 26, 2012, 11:57:51 PM
I agree with Gustav. We've had two crusades called, and they we're Averoth and Thulsoma.

And we might see the third one....
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Andrew on April 27, 2012, 12:11:28 AM
And we might see the third one....

On Kabrinskia? Cause that would be hilarious from my perspective.

It'll probably be on some realm I don't care about though. One of those eastern or northeastern ones prolly. Maybe on Luria? That'd be funny too.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on April 27, 2012, 12:34:07 AM
The issue lately is that no one on SA will fight another SA , and then if they do they try to get a crusade called on eschother. Its part of the reason why Asylon went to war with Kabrinskia, to show Astroists that its ok to fight. I know we are still using an alliance but I wouldnt really have one if we didnt have to worry about fighting all of SA , since that isnt happening we will not ally with anymore kingdoms and even review allainces, or merely have short term goal alliances, instead of sweeping long term alliances.

Libero and Summerdale are fighting, both faithful realms. And Morek isn't even taking sides, which is probably good because they would almost certainly swing it one way or the other. As for the rest, what do you want? We're all former colonies of Morek or Astrum, and so far those ties have been quite strong.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on April 27, 2012, 01:16:48 AM
So the Zuma declare war on Morek, but its ok for Kabrinskia to allow the Zuma passage? How long until the Zuma start using boats to Morek from Golden Farrow?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Perth on April 27, 2012, 01:21:30 AM
So the Zuma declare war on Morek, but its ok for Kabrinskia to allow the Zuma passage? How long until the Zuma start using boats to Morek from Golden Farrow?

Next thing we know there will be a Daimon called "PatchyPatchy." I'm talking Pirate Daimons here, people.


(http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20101010003302/pirates/images/archive/9/96/20101231093026!Davy_Jones_Crew_DMC.jpg)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Solari on April 27, 2012, 01:49:12 AM
On Kabrinskia? Cause that would be hilarious from my perspective.

It'll probably be on some realm I don't care about though. One of those eastern or northeastern ones prolly. Maybe on Luria? That'd be funny too.

Ain't nobody in Luria that's dumb enough to earn that, uh, honor.  Not anymore, at least.  ;D
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Dante Silverfire on April 27, 2012, 01:58:00 AM
On Kabrinskia? Cause that would be hilarious from my perspective.

It'll probably be on some realm I don't care about though. One of those eastern or northeastern ones prolly. Maybe on Luria? That'd be funny too.

A crusade is likely against a non-SA realm, which means a realm you probably care a lot about.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Andrew on April 27, 2012, 03:03:14 AM
A crusade is likely against a non-SA realm, which means a realm you probably care a lot about.

Oh, so Perdan then?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on April 27, 2012, 03:50:23 AM
A crusade is likely against a non-SA realm, which means a realm you probably care a lot about.

No, we would not declare a crusade on one of our own. Until there's a schism, that is. Then it will be time to burn those heretics who butter their bread on the bottom instead of the top.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Dante Silverfire on April 27, 2012, 08:12:02 AM
No, we would not declare a crusade on one of our own. Until there's a schism, that is. Then it will be time to burn those heretics who butter their bread on the bottom instead of the top.

Did you read what I wrote?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Feylonis on April 27, 2012, 11:38:46 AM
It's nice to see a Summerdale/Libero war; it breaks the status quo of 'SA theocracies do not fight one another!!!'

(And yes, Summerdale/Libero can be considered theocracies right now. Does it even have other religions other than SA?)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on April 27, 2012, 01:38:01 PM
Neither of them are theocracies by any means.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: vonGenf on April 27, 2012, 02:05:04 PM
Neither of them are theocracies by any means.

Theocracy: m.n., a realm that does what the other theocracies tells them to do.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on April 27, 2012, 02:47:41 PM
Which does not, in any way, apply here. I don't think I've ever heard any of the theocracies telling LE or Summerdale what to do.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: vonGenf on April 27, 2012, 03:04:18 PM
Which does not, in any way, apply here. I don't think I've ever heard any of the theocracies telling LE or Summerdale what to do.

They do most of what I want them to do.

So do you, in fact.  ;)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on April 27, 2012, 03:43:11 PM
Asylon, Libero and Summerdale are not theocracies. They merely lean that way because of history or environment.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: vonGenf on April 27, 2012, 04:14:07 PM
Asylon, Libero and Summerdale are not theocracies. They merely lean that way because of history or environment.

That's pretty much what I wanted to say, yes.

Libero is much, much more of a theocracy than Averoth ever was. And, according to game mechanics, Averoth was a theocracy.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on April 27, 2012, 04:39:39 PM
That's pretty much what I wanted to say, yes.

Libero is much, much more of a theocracy than Averoth ever was. And, according to game mechanics, Averoth was a theocracy.

Originally, but the people who created Averoth were very quickly supplanted, first by refugees from Everguard, and then again by Sextus Severus and his faction who led a rebellion and converted it to a tyranny. Moreover, the original colonists never had the blessing of the Church; far from it. They acted on their own and then announced that they intended to take in the Everguardians who were technically enemies of the Church at the time. As I recall, the Church didn't care for that one bit and we set out to deliberately sabotage them. We settled that before Sextus Severus and his friends showed up though and by the time he was in power I think we were completely prepared to leave Averoth alone.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: vonGenf on April 27, 2012, 06:52:39 PM
Originally, but the people who created Averoth were very quickly supplanted, first by refugees from Everguard, and then again by Sextus Severus and his faction who led a rebellion and converted it to a tyranny. Moreover, the original colonists never had the blessing of the Church; far from it. They acted on their own and then announced that they intended to take in the Everguardians who were technically enemies of the Church at the time. As I recall, the Church didn't care for that one bit and we set out to deliberately sabotage them. We settled that before Sextus Severus and his friends showed up though and by the time he was in power I think we were completely prepared to leave Averoth alone.

So what do you think makes a theocracy, then?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Anaris on April 27, 2012, 07:02:20 PM
So what do you think makes a theocracy, then?

Well, I dunno about any Astroists, but I'd say what makes a realm a theocracy is...being a Theocracy. Y'know, actually having that government type? Remember that?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Solari on April 27, 2012, 07:12:50 PM
Well, I dunno about any Astroists, but I'd say what makes a realm a theocracy is...being a Theocracy. Y'know, actually having that government type? Remember that?

I think vonGenf was getting at whether a realm can be a nominal theocracy in the way that realms are nominal tyrannies, monarchies, and republics.  I do think that theocracies are a special case, perhaps. 
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on April 27, 2012, 07:13:35 PM
SA has never actually really had classical theocracies in my opinion. They do not practice direct rule by the Church for one thing; no Elder of SA has any power over any theocracy unless he's first been granted that power through secular channels. It's more the other way around. The theocracies as a group control the Church, and it tends to serve primarily their interests with only minimal protest from relatively pure ecclesiastics like Constantine and Labell. High rank in a theocracy can be translated into power within the Church far more readily than the other way around.

I will be very keen to see how power structures in the Church begin to shift now that high ranking members of non-theocracies are joining in droves. People like Solari and Vellos occupy a very interesting position. They have secular influence as much as any theocratic ruler, and I'm certain they will display a penchant for playing politics within the Church. Things are likely to get very interesting if power starts to shift away from the theocracies as a result, especially since Bustoarsenzio is stepping back and Allison is potentially leaving.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: vonGenf on April 27, 2012, 07:16:10 PM
Well, I dunno about any Astroists, but I'd say what makes a realm a theocracy is...being a Theocracy. Y'know, actually having that government type? Remember that?

Yes, I do, it's why I mentioned Averoth in the first place.

Note that it is not my aim to complain about the government types here, they're fine with me. I just want to say that Feylonis had a point: it makes sense to consider Summerdale and Libero as "SA realms". In practice, the church has as much to say about the behaviour of Libero than it does about the behaviour of, say Astrum.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on April 27, 2012, 07:21:40 PM
Yes, I do, it's why I mentioned Averoth in the first place.

Note that it is not my aim to complain about the government types here, they're fine with me. I just want to say that Feylonis had a point: it makes sense to consider Summerdale and Libero as "SA realms". In practice, the church has as much to say about the behaviour of Libero than it does about the behaviour of, say Astrum.

This I agree with.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Feylonis on April 27, 2012, 07:41:46 PM
I don't consider Asylon to be an SA realm/theocracy because it has at least 3 other religions in it. Libero and Summerdale only have SA, as far as I know.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Lorgan on April 27, 2012, 08:08:34 PM
Government types are outdated.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Penchant on April 27, 2012, 08:22:27 PM
Government types are outdated.
I must say I agree, D'hara is a monarchy according to government type but we are ran as a republic.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on April 27, 2012, 08:28:32 PM
it makes sense to consider Summerdale and Libero as "SA realms". In practice, the church has as much to say about the behaviour of Libero than it does about the behaviour of, say Astrum.
This, I would agree with. They are SA realms. They are not] SA theocracies. That is a very important distinction. The Elders/Regent/Holy Prophet can make some demands of the theocracies, and expect compliance, as long as it doesn't get too wacky. The same cannot be said of Summerdale and LE.

My character, Brance, has always opposed enshrining the theocracies into the power structure of the church. This could lead to interesting times as the faith spreads more and more to non-theocracies. However, unless the non-theocratic members have some *very* good power blocs among the theocracies, they will most likely not find themselves moving into high-power positions, as many people still vote realm-centric when electing elders. Now, the non-theocratic members  could bring more of their realm-mates with them, of course. But then, the faith spreads from that, and crowds out other faiths anyway. So we still end up spreading.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on April 27, 2012, 09:38:03 PM
Asylon isnt a theocracy its a monarchy with an Astroist king and a secular constitution. We lean whichever way the king and council lean. Right now our council is heavily mIxed.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Broose on April 27, 2012, 10:35:23 PM
Summerdale is an SA realm that wishes people wouldn't call it an SA realm. No luck getting new religions over here, yet.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on April 27, 2012, 11:25:58 PM
Summerdale is an SA realm that wishes people wouldn't call it an SA realm. No luck getting new religions over here, yet.

I'm surprised it bothers you. It's probably the best thing for Summerdale that it be perceived as an SA realm. It's never good being the odd man out. Take it from the guy who currently rules a realm that, prior to the BT Invasion, was on the wrong side of a 4 on 1 beat down.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Brant on April 27, 2012, 11:36:27 PM
My char has been pushing hard to have Summerdale seen as an SA realm, or at least as a realm where SA is welcome :P
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on April 28, 2012, 12:07:15 AM
Asylon is not an Astroist state. We are an Astroist cultured state. Because of history we are now Astroist/Elementalist/Truinist and perhaps a bit of Cordatus, but their church is now dead. I think I prefer being a cross-roads kingdom. We are a frontier kingdom, a place destiny mixes with the blood of fate.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Andrew on April 28, 2012, 05:15:24 AM
Asylon is not an Astroist state. We are an Astroist cultured state. Because of history we are now Astroist/Elementalist/Truinist and perhaps a bit of Cordatus, but their church is now dead. I think I prefer being a cross-roads kingdom. We are a frontier kingdom, a place destiny mixes with the blood of fate.

I think Brom needs to go to Asylon. I'm sure he could stir that up into something toxic. It'd definitely make it more interesting at least.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: JPierreD on April 28, 2012, 07:18:59 AM
Summerdale is an SA realm that wishes people wouldn't call it an SA realm. No luck getting new religions over here, yet.

That will change soon. ;)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on April 28, 2012, 08:37:24 PM
What's that? Did someone grab the red shirt and prepare to stand up?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: OFaolain on April 28, 2012, 08:49:53 PM

What actually happens in the Order of the Palm?

Right now, nothing; nominally, it's a holy order that works to spread Sanguis Astroism, but when I first wrote the Charter it was too restrictive and limiting and I didn't get much interest.  I'm going to re-draft it without the limitations but the first step is to get Turin to promise Samhain to me; once I have that I can try and bring in other nobles and go from there.

The goal at the time was diplomacy targeted at Caerwyn, but they wardec'd us while the Order was still forming.  Now it'll probably target rogue regions and focus on diplomacy with Barca; mostly I want to have a non-realm lay power within the Church, instead of the Theocratic rulers deciding everything themselves or in-Council.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Penchant on April 28, 2012, 09:06:27 PM
Right now, nothing; nominally, it's a holy order that works to spread Sanguis Astroism.

The goal at the time was diplomacy targeted at Caerwyn, but they wardec'd us while the Order was still forming.  Now it'll probably target rogue regions and focus on diplomacy with Barca;
1.) "works to spread Sanguis Astroism." Through military, preaching, or both?
2.) Is this Iashulur centric since you speak of targetting rogue regions and your character is in Iashulur?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on April 28, 2012, 09:43:17 PM
That will change soon. ;)

Pshawww... Without Allison Astroism will become a globby love-in retirement home.  ;D
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Penchant on April 28, 2012, 10:46:03 PM
Hmmm, I thought of an interesting idea. What if Sanguis Astroism went on a purge all other religions crusade thing so it would be like the entire north attacking the rest of Dwilight until all members of that realm follow Sanguis Astroism. I see it as a player vs player combined with the invasion on BT kind of thing.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Perth on April 29, 2012, 12:19:39 AM
Hmmm, I thought of an interesting idea. What if Sanguis Astroism went on a purge all other religions crusade thing so it would be like the entire north attacking the rest of Dwilight until all members of that realm follow Sanguis Astroism. I see it as a player vs player combined with the invasion on BT kind of thing.

You mean that isn't whats been going on for several years now?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on April 29, 2012, 12:23:20 AM
You mean that isn't whats been going on for several years now?

Actually, no we haven't. We've been relatively content to take the slow but steady route of converting nobles peacefully. If you want, we could actively target out all the heathens and declare war on them.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: BardicNerd on April 29, 2012, 12:24:19 AM
You mean that isn't whats been going on for several years now?

Not in any organized fashion, no.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Perth on April 29, 2012, 03:04:46 AM
Actually, no we haven't. We've been relatively content to take the slow but steady route of converting nobles peacefully. If you want, we could actively target out all the heathens and declare war on them.

Not in any organized fashion, no.


Don't get your panties in a bunch, it was a joke.  ;)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on April 29, 2012, 03:18:48 AM
Hmmm, I thought of an interesting idea. What if Sanguis Astroism went on a purge all other religions crusade thing so it would be like the entire north attacking the rest of Dwilight until all members of that realm follow Sanguis Astroism. I see it as a player vs player combined with the invasion on BT kind of thing.

No one seems to notice that the SA realms are now some of the least populated and the more moderate SA realms and non-SA realms more populated? I think the days of SA powerhouse are on their way out unless they can muster more nobles. The fundamentalist realms are going to either have to continue their alliance or hope that the more moderate realms join in sometimes.

SA Theocracies   :)
Moderate SA Tolerant kingdoms   ;)
Intolerant kingdoms   >:(
Neutral   :-\

Astrum      28  :)
Asylon      40     ;)
Aurvandil      45     >:(
Barca      22     >:(
Corsanctum   17     :)
D'Hara   32          ;)
Grand Duchy of Fissoa   22  :-\
Iashalur   16     :)
Kabrinskia      29     :)
Libero Empire   20     ;)
Luria Nova   25     :-\
Luria Vesperi   10     :-\
Madina   3    >:(
Morek Empire   29    :)
Pian en Luries      8    :-\
Solaria   19    ;)
Summerdale      39    ;)
Terran      21    ;)


Total Theocracy noble population: 119
Tolerant kingdoms: 171
Intolerants: 70
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on April 29, 2012, 03:40:59 AM
Without the fundamentalists, the island would be way boring.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on April 29, 2012, 04:37:07 AM
Totally agree, we need the fundamentalists. But, I would rather just see every kingdom at each others throats with limited short-term goal oriented alliances, instead of long-term sweeping alliances that never end. If everyone limited themselves to one ally the game would be more fun. Its impossible to control or change though and the future of Dwilight is more and more large powerblocs. Unless we go about cracking apart, rebuilding, cracking apart, rebuilding ever so often.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chenier on April 29, 2012, 04:46:46 AM
I must say I agree, D'hara is a monarchy according to government type but we are ran as a republic.

Poor Dragon King Cenarious, always be so alone in his palace.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Feylonis on April 29, 2012, 10:16:40 AM
SA has become largely irrelevant. They've come to the point that no one in their right mind would dare block the church, so nobles would just accept and ignore it rather than actually deal with it. Even if the fundamentalists made sweeping demands, most realms would just agree to it rather than face the combined military of Astrum-Morek-Summerdale-Libero-Iashalur-Corsanctum-Kabrinskia. See: recent declaration of 'all lands are open to SA'. It's a pretty monotonous powerblock, like AT's CE alliance.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Marlboro on April 29, 2012, 10:35:43 AM
It's a pretty monotonous powerblock, like AT's CE alliance.

Though not half as give-along-to-get-along.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: OFaolain on April 29, 2012, 10:47:20 AM
1.) "works to spread Sanguis Astroism." Through military, preaching, or both?
2.) Is this Iashulur centric since you speak of targetting rogue regions and your character is in Iashulur?

1) The idea was both, as well as dialogue with foreign non-believing nobles to convince them of the virtues of SA (or how harmless we are, really!)

2) Honestly I'm not sure yet; I'd like to gather warrior members together in Iashalur to create one army that can get sent out easily.  If I can get Turin to give me the duchy of Samhain (I wanted Gaston but that went to Aram >.<), that'd be the plan, while having nominal priest members who just go about preaching.  Maybe give people assignments to open dialogue with nobles in XYZ realm.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on April 29, 2012, 01:58:13 PM
Irrelevant? *chuckles*
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Feylonis on April 29, 2012, 04:47:48 PM
Irrelevant? *chuckles*

Mhmm. SA was nice when its 'controversial' edicts were challenged by people both in and out of the church. Now, people outside the church just pretty much roll with whatever SA wants, and seeing as the population in the Church is dwindling down, they won't be enough to bring interesting things about.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on April 29, 2012, 05:35:54 PM
You do realize that the population of the church is *not* dwindling, don't you? In fact we are still growing. I'm not sure why you think we are shrinking.

And if we are not controversial enough, then perhaps we will just have to get more radical. ;)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chenier on April 29, 2012, 05:45:14 PM
Mhmm. SA was nice when its 'controversial' edicts were challenged by people both in and out of the church. Now, people outside the church just pretty much roll with whatever SA wants, and seeing as the population in the Church is dwindling down, they won't be enough to bring interesting things about.

I'm of the philosophy of "let SA get what it wants for long enough for them to bore themselves and start breaking apart".
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: vonGenf on April 29, 2012, 06:10:11 PM
Quote
Important Event for "Sanguis Astroism"   (21 hours, 52 minutes ago)
200th member has joined the order.
Also check the Guild Log for recent events.

 ;D
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: OFaolain on April 29, 2012, 08:58:58 PM
That number seems to be all characters that have ever joined Sanguis Astroism, rather than the number we had when the 200th joined.  In-game it says we have 107 members (+23 paused, or is that 23 of which are paused?).

It's pretty hard to call something irrelevant when people just roll over and do what it wants, eh?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: JPierreD on April 29, 2012, 10:19:57 PM
That number seems to be all characters that have ever joined Sanguis Astroism, rather than the number we had when the 200th joined.

Yep, that's it.

In-game it says we have 107 members (+23 paused, or is that 23 of which are paused?).

It's 107 unpaused plus 23 paused members, afaik.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on April 30, 2012, 12:24:32 AM
SA is far from irrelevant. A bit jammed up and without direction at the
Moment but far from irrelevant.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chenier on April 30, 2012, 12:26:05 AM
A bit jammed up and without direction at the Moment

As it should be.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on April 30, 2012, 08:03:28 PM
Mhmm. SA was nice when its 'controversial' edicts were challenged by people both in and out of the church. Now, people outside the church just pretty much roll with whatever SA wants, and seeing as the population in the Church is dwindling down, they won't be enough to bring interesting things about.

We have 80+ people in the full membership alone. With aspirants I think the recipient list when sending to all members is 170+. Add in the paused people and there over 200 characters in the Church as of right now, which is more than we've ever had.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: OFaolain on May 04, 2012, 12:33:47 PM
It's nice to be back in the Elder Council; feels like we'll have this new charter done by the end of Summer (in-game Summer, even), which will leave plenty of time for being dissatisfied with whatever Morek decides to do about the Bohai incident before Allison gets me kicked out of the Consulate again. 8)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: JPierreD on May 04, 2012, 05:10:28 PM
Bohai incident?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: OFaolain on May 04, 2012, 05:25:19 PM
Creed Avon sacked the temple in Bohai (which he is Count of), which caused quite a stir; apparently it was the result of a cell-phone miss-click (or so I'm told), but the in-game consequences should be interesting regardless.  Within the Church, Eoghan was calling for him to be declared an Enemy of the Faith but his Duke, and the High Inquisitor of Morek, and the Grandmaster of Morek, and another Morekian Duchess all spoke up in his defense demanding we let them handle it.  Could lead to some interesting shenanigans, especially since Creed is already an excommunicated heretic.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: vonGenf on May 04, 2012, 08:15:54 PM
Bohai incident?

Interested? There is a temple near you where you can subscribe to hear all the latest news and gossip!!
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Lorgan on May 04, 2012, 08:19:55 PM
Interested? There is a temple near you where you can subscribe to hear all the latest news and gossip!!

Where?! *grabs torch*
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: vonGenf on May 04, 2012, 08:30:58 PM
Where?! *grabs torch*

Everywhere! That's the beauty of it!

You're practically already surrounded!
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Lorgan on May 04, 2012, 08:36:44 PM
Gonna need more torches...
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on May 04, 2012, 08:39:48 PM
*sets up a stand, the words "Sanguis Astroism donations" crossed out and replaced with "Get your torches"* Get your torches here! Lots of torches! Absolutely no chance they'll leak oil onto you and cause you to catch fire on the way to a temple...
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: OFaolain on May 11, 2012, 12:37:27 PM
So, how 'bout them Crusades?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Daycryn on May 11, 2012, 07:17:05 PM
About that.

Quote
The Daimon is an enemy of man, an enemy of the Faith, and an enemy of the Bloodstars. For such a beast does shun the Stars, and indeed its mind is with the force of fear and the frightful fangs which it uses to rend flesh and Realm alike.

I myself have seen the horrors spilling out of the mountains, ravaging all in their path, caring nothing but to consume. I have seen them turn the tide of battle - to the woe indeed of those who allied with them. Friends and enemies alike are but victims to their murderous rage. It is a tricky thing indeed when some have tried to make friends with these things. With such friends, I would rather be friendless!

If it is the Prophet's will, then I say, so be it, and let the armies of the realms of the Church go forth and make an end of these monstrous terrors we call the Zuma! (Though I admit to be desiring to hear our Prophet's blessing himself - I pray none take offense at that!)

To those who say the Vision received in Golden Farrow was not a Prophecy - these are but differences of words. When we speak of that which the Prophet sees, we speak of Prophecy, for that is the gift his Bloodstar-attuned and enlightened nature works. To those who question the Prophecies in general - woe to you, and shame, for you are like the very beast which shuns the stars yourself! Not all who shun the stars may be Daimon in form, after all. A shadow of infidelity, wherever the source, darkens.

Now, as ever, is the time where a man's Faith shall decide his fate. We should all give serious contemplation, and meditate upon the Prophet's words, and pray to the Divine Bloodstars for guidance. And ask ourselves: is my faith like that of a stone, placed in a sacred field by our Most Holy Prophet? Or is it like some shallow thing, a mask to be worn, a hollow suit of armor to be worn at a tournament, a robe to be wrapped upon our shoulders and then discarded secretly when we are alone?

Rabisu Daycryn of Kabrinskia, Priest of Sanguis Astroism
Luminary of Sanguis Astroism
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Kellaine on May 11, 2012, 07:30:26 PM
So, how 'bout them Crusades?

I am still waiting to hear from the Holy Profit himself.  Until then it is all conjecture and wishful thinking.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Telrunya on May 11, 2012, 07:44:15 PM
I am still waiting to hear from the Holy Profit himself.  Until then it is all conjecture and wishful thinking.

1. Declare a Crusade against the Zuma.
2. March all Armies to Nightmarch.
3. ? ? ?
4. Holy Profit!

No offence meant, just light-hearted joke ;)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: egamma on May 11, 2012, 07:50:12 PM
Yes, the prophet in D'Hara declares religious war, Allison declares war on the Zuma, and the Zuma attack Kabrinskia. Perfect!
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Kellaine on May 11, 2012, 08:11:21 PM
Yes, the prophet in D'Hara declares religious war, Allison declares war on the Zuma, and the Zuma attack Kabrinskia. Perfect!

You see that is a problem... the Zuma are helping Kabrinskia, so why would we want to declare war upon them.

I believe that Allison will be able to get temples built in Zuma lands soon as well.... At least that is what we are hoping for.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: egamma on May 11, 2012, 08:32:44 PM
You see that is a problem... the Zuma are helping Kabrinskia, so why would we want to declare war upon them.

Because Allison is a fanatic.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on May 11, 2012, 08:43:03 PM
Because Allison is a fanatic.

Fanatic about her personal worship of the Maddening Star perhaps. About following the pronouncements of the Prophet? Not in the least. She has little, if any, respect for him.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Solari on May 11, 2012, 08:54:46 PM
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Perth on May 11, 2012, 10:29:11 PM
Holy Profit

I'm not in SA.... but these seems like good grounds for some excommunication to me!
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on May 12, 2012, 12:25:31 AM
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Sacha on May 12, 2012, 07:40:55 AM
Yeah, I hear that Malus guy is a real bad egg!
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Lefanis on May 12, 2012, 07:51:23 AM
Yeah, I hear that Malus guy is a real bad egg!

As are all Lurians  ;)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Sacha on May 12, 2012, 07:56:01 AM
Bah, there's barely any real Lurians left... We've been taken over by softies!
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on May 12, 2012, 08:03:06 AM
BROM!!!????
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Dante Silverfire on May 12, 2012, 08:04:29 AM
Bah, there's barely any real Lurians left... We've been taken over by softies!

How about all of those Lurians who have hated each other in the past, unite and win?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Sacha on May 12, 2012, 08:31:39 AM
A lot of those aren't Lurians as well ;) Brom's a self-admitted serial rebel... I'd be surprised (and impressed) if he ever manages to return there peacefully :p
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Dante Silverfire on May 12, 2012, 09:31:33 AM
BROM!!!????

You're catching on...

A lot of those aren't Lurians as well ;) Brom's a self-admitted serial rebel... I'd be surprised (and impressed) if he ever manages to return there peacefully :p

Shoot, I'm surprised Brom managed to return to Luria peacefully this past time. Not to mention being handed a realm council position almost right off the bat once arriving.

Brom probably could have had a chance at returning peacefully again if it wasn't for Alice now that he's joined SA. SA bring him some new friends, and I believe will give him the chance to rectify himself (somewhat) in the eyes of those of Luria who are members of SA. Not that they'll ever trust him, but there are ways for Brom to return peacefully since he does still hold many friends in Luria. (Not that anyone will publicly admit to it). Sadly, there are over 3x as many people who consider him an enemy. And those people talk a lot more.

So essentially, SA is the answer to all of the problems in the world.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on May 12, 2012, 05:44:31 PM
So essentially, SA is the answer to all of the problems in the world.

It's about time people started to admit it.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Zakilevo on May 12, 2012, 07:40:25 PM
Brom has been enlightened by the Stars!
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Daycryn on May 16, 2012, 05:22:42 PM
Some fascinating new developments in SA lately. Crusade against the Zuma? Allison says she's more enlightened than anyone except "perhaps" the Prophet? Rabisu starts to lose his [email protected]#$? All this and more.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: dustole on May 16, 2012, 07:20:44 PM
Rabisu shouldnt bite the hand that feeds him...
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on May 17, 2012, 03:36:43 AM
I noticed that. Hehehe.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Daycryn on May 17, 2012, 04:01:57 AM
It depends on what the dish consists of, no?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Dante Silverfire on May 17, 2012, 05:23:03 AM
Rabisu shouldnt bite the hand that feeds him...

Cmon!!! I'm losing my touch. I mean there is a rebellion/dissident in Brom's realm and he's not part of it?

The world is truly ending.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chaotrance13 on May 17, 2012, 04:27:42 PM
Cmon!!! I'm losing my touch. I mean there is a rebellion/dissident in Brom's realm and he's not part of it?

The world is truly ending.

Unless this rebellion or dissent in Kabrinskia is fabricated. As I've said ICly - while I don't always agree with what Rabisu says or how he says it, Alaron will stand by his right to say what he likes.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on May 17, 2012, 04:33:06 PM
Unless this rebellion or dissent in Kabrinskia is fabricated. As I've said ICly - while I don't always agree with what Rabisu says or how he says it, Alaron will stand by his right to say what he likes.

Of course it's fabricated. Allison is completely ruthless, especially when it comes to discarding broken tools. She has no use for followers who won't follow.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chaotrance13 on May 17, 2012, 05:02:05 PM
Of course it's fabricated. Allison is completely ruthless, especially when it comes to discarding broken tools. She has no use for followers who won't follow.

Well, yes. I know it's a load of tripe OOCly. ICly though I don't have evidence to support that assertion, bar suspecting Allison's nature and her past issues, which is probably not going to be enough to help. Hence why Alaron's called for some kind of evidence to be presented. Heck, even if Rabisu were accused of witchcraft, I think he'd want to see some degree of proof before a trial commenced.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on May 17, 2012, 05:13:37 PM
Actually, Gustav has been openly critical of Allison's decisions. Haven't seen many repercussions for him. Probably because he doesn't vehemently oppose every single thing she says, just those he disagrees with.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on May 17, 2012, 05:54:02 PM
Actually, Gustav has been openly critical of Allison's decisions. Haven't seen many repercussions for him. Probably because he doesn't vehemently oppose every single thing she says, just those he disagrees with.

Not when it comes to anything that matters, and not where I have been able to see it.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Kellaine on May 17, 2012, 05:57:12 PM
Not when it comes to anything that matters, and not where I have been able to see it.

I have seen it.

And Katayanna has not supported Allison or been against her. Katayanna believes that Allison can defend herself in most cases. and is trying to remain impartial as she is a consul.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on May 17, 2012, 05:57:59 PM
Well, yes. I know it's a load of tripe OOCly. ICly though I don't have evidence to support that assertion, bar suspecting Allison's nature and her past issues, which is probably not going to be enough to help. Hence why Alaron's called for some kind of evidence to be presented. Heck, even if Rabisu were accused of witchcraft, I think he'd want to see some degree of proof before a trial commenced.

Interfere with the sovereign affairs of Kabrinskia at your own peril  ;)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on May 17, 2012, 06:00:04 PM
I have seen it.

And in fairness, I see only a small fraction of their total interaction.

However, offering constructive criticism or voicing respectful disagreement in a small council, or even a larger audience, is very different than what Rabisu just did in front of the entire full membership of the Church  :)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Kellaine on May 17, 2012, 06:02:14 PM
And in fairness, I see only a small fraction of their total interaction.

However, offering constructive criticism or voicing respectful disagreement in a small council, or even a larger audience, is very different than what Rabisu just did in front of the entire full membership of the Church  :)

What you say is true. 
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Daycryn on May 17, 2012, 06:10:15 PM
Well you can't expect a guy to be polite and respectful to someone who's just accused him of treason and rebellion.

 I mean, you could, but you'd be disappointed most of the time.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chaotrance13 on May 17, 2012, 06:22:12 PM
Interfere with the sovereign affairs of Kabrinskia at your own peril  ;)

I read that as "Interfere with Allison's sovereign imperative at your own peril" personally. ;D
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on May 17, 2012, 06:38:58 PM
I don't understand why people think Rabisu would be the one on trial. Heck, even Rabisu seems to think that. But Rabisu isn't accused of doing anything against the church. If anything gets tried, which I am not convinced needs to happen, it would be Allison or Khari.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Kellaine on May 17, 2012, 07:24:42 PM
I don't understand why people think Rabisu would be the one on trial. Heck, even Rabisu seems to think that. But Rabisu isn't accused of doing anything against the church. If anything gets tried, which I am not convinced needs to happen, it would be Allison or Khari.

I think the point is to hold a secular trial and find impartial judges from outside the realm... but I could be wrong
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on May 17, 2012, 07:43:41 PM
Then it shouldn't be being discussed in SA channels.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Kellaine on May 17, 2012, 08:39:24 PM
Then it shouldn't be being discussed in SA channels.

I agree with you and I did say as much when it started
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: dustole on May 17, 2012, 09:01:32 PM
This is all made up and khari and rabizu know about it.  Trying to include the church for some rp fun...
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on May 17, 2012, 09:12:43 PM
Nothing wrong with RP fun. It just needs to be church-related. 86 people all don't want to be included in an internal Kabrinskia squabble. Our biggest complaint in SA is that we have too much arguing about non-church stuff. If we let one situation go, then we open the doors for more...
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Daycryn on May 17, 2012, 09:13:28 PM
Well OOC I know about it. IC, it's a surprise, or would be if Rabisu weren't already rather cynical about Allison these days.

Yes the trial regarding Rabisu's treason is a secular matter, I'm not sure why that got mentioned since Rabisu requested a trial only in discussion to the realm, except however that it's tangentially relevant because if Allison is using her secular power to interfere with the church, to put pressure (i.e., legal punishments) on priests for what they say in SA discussions then it's an example of that. If he were guilty of rebellion though, it wouldn't be an example. So it's a bit of a puzzle. Fun times though!
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Kellaine on May 18, 2012, 05:42:12 AM
Brother Glaumring has finally pissed off Katayanna
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on May 18, 2012, 05:47:49 AM
So, I guess that's everyone then. You were the last one...
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Lefanis on May 18, 2012, 06:56:44 AM
So, I guess that's everyone then. You were the last one...

My character rather enjoys his letters.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Daycryn on May 18, 2012, 07:12:34 AM
Glaumring is kind of like toe fungus.

He grows on you. ;D
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Darksun on May 18, 2012, 01:56:47 PM
I prefer to think of him as the drunk uncle at Christmas.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on May 18, 2012, 02:12:08 PM
Wah? Gfvbbczssfvbnnncxseggh...
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Velax on May 20, 2012, 07:15:58 AM
What happened to YASMAT? Did it get deleted?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Penchant on May 20, 2012, 07:36:33 AM
What happened to YASMAT? Did it get deleted?
What is YASMAT?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Perth on May 20, 2012, 09:12:31 AM
What happened to YASMAT? Did it get deleted?

Seems so...

What is YASMAT?

Yet Another SMA Thread...
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on May 20, 2012, 11:42:36 AM
I believe that the OP, Scarlett, deleted it. I didn't know they could do that...
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Kellaine on May 25, 2012, 09:31:42 AM
SA now under attack by Asylon.

They have attacked Priestess Allison in her own lands while she was preaching to her own realms region.

Is this a indication that they wish to be at war with the SA....
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Perth on May 25, 2012, 09:59:25 AM
Is this a indication that they wish to be at war with the SA....


Uh... No.. I'm pretty sure it just means they want to be at war with Allison...
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Sacha on May 25, 2012, 01:10:34 PM
Still, crazy as she is, she's still an SA figurehead and a sovereign ruler... I'd expect little sympathy for Asylon from now on... You'll either win, or die ;)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: egamma on May 25, 2012, 02:20:57 PM

No, the Infiltrator attacked the Ruler of an enemy realm, in attempt to spare the lives of thousands. It has nothing to do with religion. OR since the infiltrator belongs to SA aswell, maybe it is religious.

There you go, with all your "facts" and "logic". Can't you see that katayanna really needs SA to get involved in the war, and that you aren't helping her? Shame on you!
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on May 25, 2012, 04:33:50 PM
Attacking Allison isn't a provocation for SA.

But it is rather barbaric.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: dustole on May 25, 2012, 04:39:02 PM
Attacking any priest of SA is looked down upon...  Realms have been destroyed for inflicting injuries to priests.  Ive needed just one more thing to help turn the SA Theocracies against Asylon and I think I got it now...
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on May 25, 2012, 06:07:46 PM
There are so many things I want to say about this, but it's entirely too soon.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Feylonis on May 25, 2012, 06:09:03 PM
Like I've said before, whoever thought SA wasn't going to jump in to defend Allison was kidding themselves, heh.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: T Strike on May 25, 2012, 06:20:52 PM
Honestly, I wouldn't defend Allison...
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on May 25, 2012, 06:44:19 PM
SA now under attack by Asylon.

They have attacked Priestess Allison in her own lands while she was preaching to her own realms region.

Is this a indication that they wish to be at war with the SA....

Oh god, fight your own battles already.... So boring, you'd be dead without your entangled cowardly alliances. Come fight us alone, leave Terran and Astrum , the Zuma , SA out of it... Oh I forgot because you would lose so bad. Hubris , cowardice and clueless...
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on May 25, 2012, 07:07:28 PM
Oh god, fight your own battles already.... So boring, you'd be dead without your entangled cowardly alliances. Come fight us alone, leave Terran and Astrum , the Zuma , SA out of it... Oh I forgot because you would lose so bad. Hubris , cowardice and clueless...

To be fair, I'm sure they'd be happy to have Terran out of it, but I don't think Terran is giving them that option.  :)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Feylonis on May 25, 2012, 07:28:08 PM
Having Terran in the war gives Kabrinskia the excuse to pull in Astrum and the other SA realms into the fight. I honestly haven't seen a war where SA participated that did not involve gangbanging the enemy realm. See: Springdale vs Virovene, Morek; Thulsoma vs SA; Averoth vs SA; Caerwyn vs SA; Summerdale vs Libero, Morek.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Zakilevo on May 25, 2012, 07:36:20 PM
This war is just getting better and better. It won't be a gangbang since Asylon, Barca and Terran are fighting theocracies.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Lorgan on May 25, 2012, 07:43:29 PM
1 realm vs 2 isn't a gangbang.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Kellaine on May 25, 2012, 07:53:21 PM
1 realm vs 2 isn't a gangbang.

but one realm vs three is

but now it is two vs three a little more even.

Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Feylonis on May 25, 2012, 08:31:51 PM
I'm personally waiting for the Libero-Morek-Corsanctum-Astrum-Iashalur declarations. 6 v 3 seems more like a gangbang.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on May 25, 2012, 08:39:17 PM
Libero wouldn't declare, they aren't a theocracy.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on May 25, 2012, 08:41:47 PM
Quote
Feylonis: Having Terran in the war gives Kabrinskia the excuse to pull in Astrum and the other SA realms into the fight.
This is just so wrong. Have you been paying attention to what's happening at all?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: OFaolain on May 25, 2012, 08:50:20 PM
I'm personally waiting for the Libero-Morek-Corsanctum-Astrum-Iashalur declarations. 6 v 3 seems more like a gangbang.

Any "gangbang" will be entirely Asylon's fault for burning their SA bridges (and stabbing an SA priest).  They're trying to bring it back together but Glaumring has very successfully pissed off a lot of people and completely alienated Astrum, who is now practically guaranteed to jump into the war (IMO).  Whether this does turn into a "gangbang" will hinge on two things, I think:  the S-LM war in the north (all nominally allied with Astrum, IIRC), and how bored Corsanctum is.  Even then, if the S-LM war continues on, 4-3 is hardly a gangbang.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Zakilevo on May 25, 2012, 08:50:29 PM
Uh Astrum don't care about Terran. We do however care deeply about Asylon.

You should really read what Asylon's king has been telling the church. You will like it.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Feylonis on May 25, 2012, 08:54:24 PM
This is just so wrong. Have you been paying attention to what's happening at all?

Kabrinskians were poaching in Terran lands, Terran declares war. Barca and Asylon join Terran as allies. Kabrinskia brings in Zuma, war halts to a standstill. Asylon declares its own war against Kabrinskia and attack Mech Alb, Kabrinskia and Astrum priests surge into Mech Alb. Allison wounded by Asylonian infiltrator.

Anything I miss?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Feylonis on May 25, 2012, 08:57:47 PM
Any "gangbang" will be entirely Asylon's fault for burning their SA bridges (and stabbing an SA priest).  They're trying to bring it back together but Glaumring has very successfully pissed off a lot of people and completely alienated Astrum, who is now practically guaranteed to jump into the war (IMO).  Whether this does turn into a "gangbang" will hinge on two things, I think:  the S-LM war in the north (all nominally allied with Astrum, IIRC), and how bored Corsanctum is.  Even then, if the S-LM war continues on, 4-3 is hardly a gangbang.

Aforementioned SA priest is also the leader of the realm we are at war with. I am amused how deeply people want to turn this into a religious war when it's all about whether Mech Alb / Elets are part of Itau/Via or Golden Farrow. SA priests are already swarming to the battlefield, heh.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Zakilevo on May 25, 2012, 09:02:05 PM
Asylon will burn that is for certain. Yep.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Darksun on May 25, 2012, 09:11:09 PM
I've got to say, this whole predicament makes Summerdale look very classy by comparison.

Brant & Co - Good on you! At least you waited to control the region before you abused the priest/ruler.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on May 25, 2012, 09:23:33 PM
Actually, Kabrinskia still controls the region. So they attacked the priest on Kabrinskian lands...
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Darksun on May 25, 2012, 09:24:47 PM
Actually, Kabrinskia still controls the region. So they attacked the priest on Kabrinskian lands...

That was my point. Summerdale waited until they had control of Torrents Breath before arresting Light Elsebeth.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on May 25, 2012, 09:27:08 PM
@feylonis: your sequence of events is mostly correct. Yet your assertion that Terran's war is a reason for SA realms to get involved is completely incorrect.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Brant on May 25, 2012, 09:32:02 PM
Quote
I've got to say, this whole predicament makes Summerdale look very classy by comparison.

Brant & Co - Good on you! At least you waited to control the region before you abused the priest/ruler.

Yeah... people tend to get touchy when you stick steel in 'em, not nearly as much about a forced vacation :P
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: mikm on May 25, 2012, 09:50:08 PM
The player of that character who attacked the Kabriskan ruler/priest misscliked. I saw the OOC mesage miself. Amasing!
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: egamma on May 25, 2012, 09:52:18 PM
The player of that character who attacked the Kabriskan ruler/priest misscliked. I saw the OOC mesage miself. Amasing!

Now that's funny.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: mikm on May 25, 2012, 10:07:15 PM
We were dicusing a little brutality should be used regarding those pesky priests and king clarly said the priests are not to be harmed.
All this happned after the actual stabing ocured. ;D

Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: OFaolain on May 25, 2012, 11:09:07 PM
The player of that character who attacked the Kabriskan ruler/priest misscliked. I saw the OOC mesage miself. Amasing!

How do you "accidentally" stab someone?  Don't you have to click "stab a fellow" and then click "stab that fellow over there" (which is how you arrest adventurers)?  That'd be like saying "I meant to convoy to BEL, but my pen slipped and I wrote BRE!  My bad; we're still friends, right?"  Who was he trying to stab in Mech Alb, if he wasn't trying to stab Allison?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: mikm on May 25, 2012, 11:31:59 PM
You can use the assult comand to view all characters in your area, as long as you don't click from the list.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on May 26, 2012, 12:07:15 AM
You can use the assult comand to view all characters in your area, as long as you don't click from the list.

That may be true, but it doesn't matter. It happened. It's IC now, you roll with it.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Perth on May 26, 2012, 12:30:33 AM
How do you "accidentally" stab someone?  Don't you have to click "stab a fellow" and then click "stab that fellow over there" (which is how you arrest adventurers)?  That'd be like saying "I meant to convoy to BEL, but my pen slipped and I wrote BRE!  My bad; we're still friends, right?"  Who was he trying to stab in Mech Alb, if he wasn't trying to stab Allison?

I love you right now for making a Diplomacy reference.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: T Strike on May 26, 2012, 12:45:23 AM
That is until they TO your city that you are duke of. How would that make you feel about him? huh Perth! Tell me!
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: egamma on May 26, 2012, 02:20:12 AM
How do you "accidentally" stab someone?  Don't you have to click "stab a fellow" and then click "stab that fellow over there" (which is how you arrest adventurers)?  That'd be like saying "I meant to convoy to BEL, but my pen slipped and I wrote BRE!  My bad; we're still friends, right?"  Who was he trying to stab in Mech Alb, if he wasn't trying to stab Allison?

I accidentally stabbed a realm-member instead of the enemy--I didn't recognize his name.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: T Strike on May 26, 2012, 02:39:35 AM
Imagine cutting your own ruler on accident.  :'(
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Dante Silverfire on May 26, 2012, 02:46:52 AM
Imagine cutting your own ruler on accident.  :'(

How do you think I feel? I accidentally rebelled against them over and over again...
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Daycryn on May 26, 2012, 02:52:01 AM
Don't you just hate it when you accidentally execute five people.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Marlboro on May 26, 2012, 02:54:18 AM
Don't you just hate it when you accidentally execute five people.

Isn't that the kind of thing that makes you a hero?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: T Strike on May 26, 2012, 03:13:08 AM
 It does? I'd like to execute my plots then. If you know what I mean.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on May 26, 2012, 03:30:45 AM
Back in 06 or so, there was a judge that executed the wrong guy. Had a similar name or something. Maybe Lorgan remembers it?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Daycryn on May 26, 2012, 06:33:02 AM
Isn't that the kind of thing that makes you a hero?

No. Doing something accidentally is never heroic. On purpose, however... opinions differ.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Brant on May 26, 2012, 06:40:59 AM
That looked like a good battle, nice!
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on May 26, 2012, 06:50:30 AM
It was good, and messy. It was also very close. Round 2 is coming up.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Marlboro on May 26, 2012, 06:51:40 AM
No. Doing something accidentally is never heroic. On purpose, however... opinions differ.

The key is, after your accident, striking a pose and then, of course, the snappy one-liner.

"Looks like those villagers lost their heads!"

 8) YEEEEEAAAAH!
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: mikm on May 26, 2012, 08:09:38 AM
Good battle. Archers' panic and retreat move is so usefull.
 Also amazing prison escapes!
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on May 26, 2012, 01:47:37 PM
And Terran hasn't even come in from the south yet to massacre the survivors.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Sacha on May 26, 2012, 01:49:07 PM
Well, having your ally's ruler imprisoned does tend to make you think twice before doing something rash ;)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on May 26, 2012, 01:58:32 PM
I escaped, they tried to tie me up. I jump kicked a guy in the face, grabbed a dagger and stabbed a Kabrinskian in the face. And then jumped out a 25 story window and slid down a ship sail with my dagger. The dastardly Kabrinskians came at me with swords, but I found a torch and fought off like 25 bumbling guards and started a fire. While fire was raging I grabbed a Golden Farrow maiden and started making out with her while fighting through the streets. Jumped on a horse and made a long speech to the peasants of Golden Farrow and then made off into the night and hid in the swamps and the local peasantry of Kabrinskia took care of me and told of how they yearned to join Asylon and be free... Huzzahhh!
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Feylonis on May 26, 2012, 02:18:09 PM
Glaumring isn't in prison.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on May 26, 2012, 02:27:38 PM
As in "never went to prison"? Lysander was going to release him right away.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on May 26, 2012, 02:41:29 PM
Ironically captured by Geronus... I was chained like an animal! And escaped like houdini!
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Feylonis on May 26, 2012, 02:50:33 PM
As in "never went to prison"? Lysander was going to release him right away.

Moot point, since he's not in prison anymore, anyway.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on May 26, 2012, 03:01:55 PM
I was in their dank mobile Prisons, they have hundreds if them stuffed to the gills with captured orphans!
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on May 26, 2012, 03:47:11 PM
It's really a shame. You totally deprived me of my chance to gloat, which I am extremely upset about. The guards will be flogged! We were going to release you anyway though, just, you know, AFTER I got a good chuckle out of it.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Velax on May 26, 2012, 03:55:41 PM
I was in their dank mobile Prisons, they have hundreds if them stuffed to the gills with captured orphans!

I thought Sundar had all of those over on FEI?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Penchant on May 26, 2012, 06:08:20 PM
Moot point, since he's not in prison anymore, anyway.
Not moot if its due to a bug since he was supposed to have gone to prison based on the battle report.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Telrunya on May 26, 2012, 06:47:11 PM
He's a Hero. He probably just escaped right after getting captured.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: mikm on May 26, 2012, 06:53:40 PM
Both characters I am refering to escaped almosted imediately after capture, one being the staber.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on May 26, 2012, 07:06:54 PM
He escaped within hours of being captured.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: mikm on May 26, 2012, 07:18:30 PM
Seemed like almost imediatly to me when I read the mesages.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Perth on May 26, 2012, 08:38:59 PM
And Terran hasn't even come in from the south yet to massacre the survivors.

I wouldn't count on it to much, my army doesn't like to cooperate with me.   :-\
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Daycryn on May 27, 2012, 12:09:58 AM
The Allison Defense Team is working overtime!
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Dante Silverfire on May 27, 2012, 12:16:31 AM
It's all good, let's see if the latest event in SA will spice things up some.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on May 27, 2012, 12:27:57 AM
You can keep dreaming. Learn to fight your own battles. Everyone knows it wasnt an attack on SA.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Dante Silverfire on May 27, 2012, 12:37:10 AM
You can keep dreaming. Learn to fight your own battles. Everyone knows it wasnt an attack on SA.

Just wait and see. Everyone knows Glaumring could care less about what SA thinks about him anyway, so that can come back to bite him.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on May 27, 2012, 01:14:55 AM
Says the guy who has been in SA for a few weeks.

And if it takes the entire map to take down Glaumring it only shows how large I truly am. What I discovering is that Kabrinskia cant fight its own battles. Its the little snotty kid constantly making trouble.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on May 27, 2012, 01:17:49 AM
Says the guy who has been in SA for a few weeks.

And if it takes the entire map to take down Glaumring it only shows how large I truly am. What I discovering is that Kabrinskia cant fight its own battles. Its the little snotty kid constantly making trouble.

To be fair it was getting ganged up on two to one. Of course it can't take Terran and Asylon together. With Astrum in the picture it's basically even.

As for the other characterization, Allison personifies trouble. However, Kabrinskia means much  more to Astrum than just Allison. We're not defending her, we're defending what we've built and ensuring our own security from aggressive realms like Asylon.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Dante Silverfire on May 27, 2012, 01:30:15 AM
Says the guy who has been in SA for a few weeks.

Ad Hominem means nothing. And Brom being in SA for a few weeks and STILL having enough influence to bring you down just shows how weak you are.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on May 27, 2012, 01:43:53 AM
We whooped your butt with our crappiest army. And now we are going to go to Our capital and drink wine out of your skulls.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Dante Silverfire on May 27, 2012, 02:09:29 AM
We whooped your butt with our crappiest army. And now we are going to go to Our capital and drink wine out of your skulls.

The pen is mightier than the sword, and I will prove it.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on May 27, 2012, 02:26:29 AM
Ad Hominem means nothing. And Brom being in SA for a few weeks and STILL having enough influence to bring you down just shows how weak you are.

Uh, really? What exactly have you done?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Dante Silverfire on May 27, 2012, 02:36:07 AM
Uh, really? What exactly have you done?

I usually don't do anything. I just get others to do it.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on May 27, 2012, 02:42:40 AM
Wrote a fancy letter. That, really, only Katayanna likes.

The many politically motivated attacks lately have really undermined the legitimacy of the accusations.

The thing that really makes me chuckle is seeing the people that are attempting to manipulate the church into going to war, thinking it will be the clever way to do it. In reality, it is the very slow and uncertain way to do it. It is also completely unecessary. This is the situation where personal contacts, a well-known name, and knowing your audience are what is needed. And it has already been done. (And no, it wasn't me that did it.) All the soapboxing in SA is redundant and probably won't amount to anything anyway.

(Sorry Brom, you're way too new to the church, and lacking of knowledge of church dynamics to do what you're trying to do.)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on May 27, 2012, 02:43:59 AM
It shows in your sloppy handiwork. (to Brom)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Dante Silverfire on May 27, 2012, 02:56:32 AM
Wrote a fancy letter. That, really, only Katayanna likes.

The many politically motivated attacks lately have really undermined the legitimacy of the accusations.

The thing that really makes me chuckle is seeing the people that are attempting to manipulate the church into going to war, thinking it will be the clever way to do it. In reality, it is the very slow and uncertain way to do it. It is also completely unecessary. This is the situation where personal contacts, a well-known name, and knowing your audience are what is needed. And it has already been done. (And no, it wasn't me that did it.) All the soapboxing in SA is redundant and probably won't amount to anything anyway.

(Sorry Brom, you're way too new to the church, and lacking of knowledge of church dynamics to do what you're trying to do.)

Of course I'm new, but you also have absolutely no idea what I'm trying to do. There are a few people in the church though that probably know.

It shows in your sloppy handiwork. (to Brom)
Yep, gotta work on that.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on May 27, 2012, 03:41:38 AM
Of course I'm new, but you also have absolutely no idea what I'm trying to do.
Don't be too sure.  ;)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chaotrance13 on May 27, 2012, 03:56:34 AM
Wrote a fancy letter. That, really, only Katayanna likes.

The many politically motivated attacks lately have really undermined the legitimacy of the accusations.

The thing that really makes me chuckle is seeing the people that are attempting to manipulate the church into going to war, thinking it will be the clever way to do it. In reality, it is the very slow and uncertain way to do it. It is also completely unecessary. This is the situation where personal contacts, a well-known name, and knowing your audience are what is needed. And it has already been done. (And no, it wasn't me that did it.) All the soapboxing in SA is redundant and probably won't amount to anything anyway.

(Sorry Brom, you're way too new to the church, and lacking of knowledge of church dynamics to do what you're trying to do.)

Exactly. And Katayanna is from Kabrinskia herself - while it's most likely bad form to do so, her supporting any accusations by her own ruler and Brom is probably going to be looked upon and laughed. Alaron practically did that when he saw all the requests for Magistrata (is that the correct plural of "Magistratum?). And then he denounced all three as political claptrap as you well know even though there may be merit to any or all of the cases presented.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Daycryn on May 27, 2012, 04:26:49 AM
What I see is:

1. Jonsu brings accusations against Allison in hopes of a Magistratum.

2. Then suddenly Katayanna brings accusations against (some non-SA infiltrator who attacked Allison) for a Magistratum. That seems to fail (?) and so Katayanna demands a crusade against Asylon.

3. Then Brom brings accusations against Glaumring in hopes of a Magistratum.

The result  is that the latter two requests (both brought by Team Allison) look petty, and political, and annoy everyone involved; who then conclude that all three requests are petty and political and dismiss them all and the first request is barely remembered thanks to the primacy effect. Ye olde tyme "flood the courts with countersuits" strategy.

Result? Allison avoids a Magistratum, by virtue of essentially overloading the SA legal framework and the patience of elders. Successful defense by Team Allison!

Really quite brilliant when you think about it.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on May 27, 2012, 04:35:43 AM
Result? Allison avoids a Magistratum, by virtue of essentially overloading the SA legal framework and the patience of elders. Successful defense by Team Allison!

Really quite brilliant when you think about it.
Like I said, Brom doesn't know the dynamics of the church, and he's too new to be in the inside loop. Being in Allison's camp, he also doesn't have access to members of the church that are not sympathetic with Allison's situation. Allison may or may not face a Magistratum trial. But whether she does or not will have absolutely nothing to do with Brom's proposed case, or any attempt to overload the system.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Dante Silverfire on May 27, 2012, 04:47:33 AM
Like I said, Brom doesn't know the dynamics of the church, and he's too new to be in the inside loop. Being in Allison's camp, he also doesn't have access to members of the church that are not sympathetic with Allison's situation. Allison may or may not face a Magistratum trial. But whether she does or not will have absolutely nothing to do with Brom's proposed case, or any attempt to overload the system.

Brom had absolutely NO idea that a case had been brought against Allison, or of any of the other cases set forth. He did it all of his own accord.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Daycryn on May 27, 2012, 05:27:49 AM
Like I said, Brom doesn't know the dynamics of the church, and he's too new to be in the inside loop. Being in Allison's camp, he also doesn't have access to members of the church that are not sympathetic with Allison's situation. Allison may or may not face a Magistratum trial. But whether she does or not will have absolutely nothing to do with Brom's proposed case, or any attempt to overload the system.

Katayanna however is in the inside loop, and definitely in the Allison camp too, and has successfully steered all discussion to the matter of priests and infiltrators whereas the charges of heresy against Allison have now zero part in discussion. Rather convenient, no?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on May 27, 2012, 05:34:43 AM
I honestly don't know how Gustav is seen by the rest of the church. I know that some anti-Allison don't differentiate him from Allison's camp.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Penchant on May 27, 2012, 06:10:13 AM
I am rather anti-Allison and don't really know what to think of Gustav.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Dante Silverfire on May 27, 2012, 06:33:39 AM
I am rather anti-Allison and don't really know what to think of Gustav.

Same here. Pretty anti-Allison, no clue who Gustav is.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Penchant on May 27, 2012, 06:55:58 AM
Same here. Pretty anti-Allison, no clue who Gustav is.
I know about him just not sure what to decide about him, and aren't you married to Allison so I don't see how you can be anti-Allison. This is another flaw of being so new to the church, Gustav was a consul not too long ago.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Dante Silverfire on May 27, 2012, 07:11:08 AM
I know about him just not sure what to decide about him, and aren't you married to Allison so I don't see how you can be anti-Allison. This is another flaw of being so new to the church, Gustav was a consul not too long ago.

Ahh oops...

;)

It's a very 'loving' relationship of course.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on May 27, 2012, 07:48:19 AM
Ya'll think this is the final blow on Glaumring... No no lads this is the threshing bee, where the wheat is seperated from the chaff.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Penchant on May 27, 2012, 08:14:39 AM
Ahh oops...

;)

It's a very 'loving' relationship of course.
I forgot about the saying "You fight like a married couple." Of course you are anti-Allison now that I remember that.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Marlboro on May 27, 2012, 09:37:39 AM
Ya'll think this is the final blow on Glaumring...

I for one would be vastly disappointed if it was. :D
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on May 27, 2012, 09:51:25 AM
I love Dwilight.

It sometimes amazes me the kind of things I can make happen.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on May 27, 2012, 12:51:27 PM
It is pretty nice when half the realms aren't tied together by multiple characters from the same family.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chaotrance13 on May 27, 2012, 01:45:57 PM
I love Dwilight.

It sometimes amazes me the kind of things I can make happen.

You're telling me. I didn't expect Alaron to be elected as General in Astrum. Though in all fairness I think that was due to the fact his opponent tried to run without even so much as posting a letter with a manifesto. But at least his career is off to a good start - and there is nothing like jumping in the deep end with regards to high-level communications with other Generals.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Foundation on May 27, 2012, 03:30:05 PM
It is pretty nice when half the realms aren't tied together by multiple characters from the same family.

It's a combination of this and also vast lands with long travel distances. :)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on May 27, 2012, 04:17:52 PM
@ravier: Adrian runs in most/all elections without ever saying anything at all. It's kind of like a tradition by now.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chaotrance13 on May 27, 2012, 06:01:20 PM
Good point, actually. I do recall him running in some previous elections.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on May 27, 2012, 06:28:56 PM
The power of the combined SA alliances is actually not as powerful or as useful as it was during the Caerwyn debacle. Lady Allison acts like its still valid, judging from noble counts I'd say its not. Distance, coordination and low populations has made it into a paper tiger. Hubris has made it obsolete. Asylon will not bow nor break fold nor follow. We will be the harbringers of a new dawn.

Grasping fear has motivated their strategy. In the end Asylon will prevail. Our kingdom is like a mountain that cannot be broken.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Sacha on May 27, 2012, 06:40:09 PM
But they can be hollowed out and plundered for resources!
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: OFaolain on May 27, 2012, 07:21:07 PM
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Darksun on May 27, 2012, 07:22:26 PM
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on May 27, 2012, 07:30:23 PM
Asylon will constructva candy town in Vakreno all are welcome!
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: T Strike on May 27, 2012, 07:56:27 PM
If I go can I be Duke of a city?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Anaris on May 27, 2012, 08:04:19 PM
If I go can I be Duke of a city?

No, because those don't exist anymore.

You can be Duke of a Duchy or Margrave of a city. Or both. But duchies and cities no longer go together.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Marlboro on May 27, 2012, 08:11:55 PM
Asylon will constructva candy town in Vakreno all are welcome!

Will the RCs spawn gummy bears?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: OFaolain on May 27, 2012, 08:21:10 PM
Will the RCs spawn gummy bears?

Only the good ones; the mediocre ones spawn marbits.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: egamma on May 27, 2012, 08:30:00 PM
Only the good ones; the mediocre ones spawn marbits.

Are those like Swedish Fish?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Uzamaki on May 27, 2012, 08:37:13 PM
Are those like Swedish Fish?

They are the marshmallows in Lucky Charms.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chenier on May 27, 2012, 09:20:39 PM
The power of the combined SA alliances is actually not as powerful or as useful as it was during the Caerwyn debacle. Lady Allison acts like its still valid, judging from noble counts I'd say its not. Distance, coordination and low populations has made it into a paper tiger. Hubris has made it obsolete. Asylon will not bow nor break fold nor follow. We will be the harbringers of a new dawn.

Grasping fear has motivated their strategy. In the end Asylon will prevail. Our kingdom is like a mountain that cannot be broken.

There are wars going on in the North-East. Morek won't be coming to bash down on Asylon. I doubt they would have anyways, too. Nor are the other north-eastern realms in war. I really doubt that *anything* could bring more than Astrum to Kabrinskia's aid. This isn't a war against infidels, after all, and a good chunk of SA would really love to see Allison fail.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Dante Silverfire on May 27, 2012, 09:30:07 PM
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chenier on May 27, 2012, 09:31:28 PM
Never underestimate the power of boredom. It is a great tool for having people join wars on your side.

But on the whole you're correct.

If they didn't have any wars going on, I'd concern myself with that factor. But thankfully, it is not an issue.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on May 27, 2012, 10:27:44 PM
/me whistles innocently...
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on May 27, 2012, 10:57:59 PM
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on May 27, 2012, 11:10:58 PM
So nice that Asylon has wonderful relations with Summerdale. A small realm of 40 nobles right next to Astrum... Morek us tied up, Corsanctum is far away.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: JPierreD on May 27, 2012, 11:24:38 PM
Meh, I could see Morek coming down, just to make themselves felt. Not for many campaigns, but maybe for one.

Also, never underestimate the power of a random Zuma rotflstomp.

Or the power of big gang cliques... ;)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Solari on May 27, 2012, 11:34:18 PM
But they can be hollowed out and plundered for resources!

LOL'ed
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on May 28, 2012, 02:31:08 AM
So nice that Asylon has wonderful relations with Summerdale. A small realm of 40 nobles right next to Astrum... Morek us tied up, Corsanctum is far away.

Erm... Summerdale is already at war with LE and Morek, aren't they?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on May 28, 2012, 02:44:16 AM
Yes they are. Im just saying.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Dante Silverfire on May 28, 2012, 03:20:27 AM
Yes they are. Im just saying.

Cmon, that's just a hollow threat then. It's almost as bad as Brom constantly saying he has friends everywhere...Almost.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on May 28, 2012, 04:44:21 AM
By incessantly disagreeing with every dumb thing I say only shows how important everything I say actually is.  8)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Dante Silverfire on May 28, 2012, 04:45:47 AM
By incessantly disagreeing with every dumb thing I say only shows how important everything I say actually is.  8)

Ahh, I should use that one.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Velax on May 28, 2012, 08:18:07 AM
Cmon, that's just a hollow threat then. It's almost as bad as Brom constantly saying he has friends

Fixed that for you.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Kellaine on May 28, 2012, 02:03:32 PM
Who will come to Kabrinskia's rescue now...... that the Zuma have left....

Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Dante Silverfire on May 28, 2012, 06:47:15 PM
Who will come to Kabrinskia's rescue now...... that the Zuma have left....

Do we need rescue? Apparently Terran is just running small groups of men into our armies and letting them wipe them away with ease.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Kellaine on May 28, 2012, 07:24:25 PM
Do we need rescue? Apparently Terran is just running small groups of men into our armies and letting them wipe them away with ease.

True, but I want them to continue to do that so let them think it is hurting us... lol
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on May 28, 2012, 08:07:08 PM
It's an ingenious strategy to fill your prisons so full of enemy soldiers, that you run out of places to put them, causing a crisis in the prison system budget. Eventually the financial strain of housing them will bankrupt you, you'll have to set them all free. The released prisoners will then rise up and takeover the entire realm all at once.

Pure genius.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Marlboro on May 28, 2012, 08:15:22 PM
It's an ingenious strategy to fill your prisons so full of enemy soldiers, that you run out of places to put them, causing a crisis in the prison system budget. Eventually the financial strain of housing them will bankrupt you, you'll have to set them all free. The released prisoners will then rise up and takeover the entire realm all at once.

Pure genius.

That's why you privatize your prison system. Then the judge gets in bed with the corporations running it and you find yourself starting more and more wars so you can fuel your need for fresh inmates to keep your economy going.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on May 28, 2012, 08:19:23 PM
Do we need rescue? Apparently Terran is just running small groups of men into our armies and letting them wipe them away with ease.

Yeah... trying to launch a 19-hour move over memorial day weekend... maybe not our smartest move. We'll see how it all turns out.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Dante Silverfire on May 28, 2012, 08:22:54 PM
It's an ingenious strategy to fill your prisons so full of enemy soldiers, that you run out of places to put them, causing a crisis in the prison system budget. Eventually the financial strain of housing them will bankrupt you, you'll have to set them all free. The released prisoners will then rise up and takeover the entire realm all at once.

Pure genius.

Exactly, but to off-set those expenses we'll just take the gold that all of those nobles are carrying and use it to buy a bunch of gallows. Problem solved.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Solari on May 28, 2012, 11:45:09 PM
Do we need rescue? Apparently Terran is just running small groups of men into our armies and letting them wipe them away with ease.

We call that maneuver the Pianese Wall.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Foundation on May 29, 2012, 12:12:18 AM
That sounds... -_-
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Perth on May 29, 2012, 04:27:48 AM
Wait.

You mean it actually is painfully obvious that Terran simply doesn't fight wars? It just isn't what we do?


Can we please just go back to the whole "fight monsters and slowly expand into rogue areas" thing? We're good at that.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Dante Silverfire on May 29, 2012, 04:36:24 AM
Wait.

You mean it actually is painfully obvious that Terran simply doesn't fight wars? It just isn't what we do?


Can we please just go back to the whole "fight monsters and slowly expand into rogue areas" thing? We're good at that.

Absolutely you can. There is this huge rogue area just to your west with some really big monsters for you to fight. Ask Glaumring how to do it. Apparently large archer armies work against small monsters, so perhaps they're effective against large monsters as well.

Kabrinskia won't even stop you or try to invade you in the meantime either.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Perth on May 29, 2012, 04:37:43 AM
Absolutely you can. There is this huge rogue area just to your west with some really big monsters for you to fight. Ask Glaumring how to do it. Apparently large archer armies work against small monsters, so perhaps they're effective against large monsters as well.

Kabrinskia won't even stop you or try to invade you in the meantime either.

Silly Silverfire, the Zumalands are for GM's!
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Dante Silverfire on May 29, 2012, 04:39:35 AM
Silly Silverfire, the Zumalands are for GM's!

Nope, pretty sure they're just rogue with a giant "Terrans eaten here" sign.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Perth on May 29, 2012, 04:45:19 AM
Nope, pretty sure they're just rogue with a giant "Terrans eaten here" sign.

... AND 50k of daimons. You forgot that part.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Dante Silverfire on May 29, 2012, 04:48:05 AM
... AND 50k of daimons. You forgot that part.

Those guys? Naw, those are just SA priests traveling in disguise. Ask the Prophet or the Regent, they'll tell you so.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on May 29, 2012, 05:03:44 AM
Shush. The new daimon priests are supposed to be a secret.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Lefanis on May 29, 2012, 05:47:36 AM
Those guys? Naw, those are just SA priests traveling in disguise.

A mod really ought to wipe this, wouldn't want it taken IC...   ;D
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Feylonis on May 29, 2012, 06:16:00 AM
It's already widely known that Zuma are now SA. To get to the Zumalands, Allison had to go past Asylon and Terran. The Zuma defended Kabrinskia. 1+1 = the Zuma are now SA.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on May 29, 2012, 06:41:28 AM
It's already widely known that Zuma are now SA. To get to the Zumalands, Allison had to go past Asylon and Terran. The Zuma defended Kabrinskia. 1+1 = the Zuma are now SA.

I think it's just a wee bit more complicated than that.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on May 29, 2012, 06:44:34 AM
Omg the Zuma are SA? Quick to the game to tell my realm!
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Penchant on May 29, 2012, 07:43:18 AM
Omg the Zuma are SA? Quick to the game to tell my realm!
I really hope your joking.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: JPierreD on May 29, 2012, 08:25:47 AM
I really hope your joking.

Yes, they are joking. Come on!
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Foundation on May 29, 2012, 02:14:07 PM
Unless they like to joke IC too. ;)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on May 29, 2012, 03:13:08 PM
I think that by saying "I hope you're joking", Penchant is referring to Glaumring's self-admitted habit of taking things from the forum and using them IG.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on May 29, 2012, 04:17:46 PM
Habit? I did it once. Indirik=Karl Rove
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Foundation on May 29, 2012, 04:57:00 PM
Whaaaaat I thought Indirik=Indirik!!!
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on May 29, 2012, 06:29:10 PM
I r Dik...
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Perth on May 29, 2012, 08:53:54 PM
Ok then:

I think that by saying "I hope you're joking", Penchant is referring to Glaumring's self-admitted willingness of taking things from the forum and using them IG.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on May 29, 2012, 09:32:56 PM
It was from a private PM actually :P
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Penchant on May 29, 2012, 11:26:14 PM
I think that by saying "I hope you're joking", Penchant is referring to Glaumring's self-admitted habit of taking things from the forum and using them IG.
That would be what I was referring to.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Ehndras on June 01, 2012, 08:54:41 AM
Hey all, just saw this topic.

Yeah, Memorial-Day weekend hit... Not good. Sad part is, we were told to delay with our move orders. I moved as directed and delayed, yet still arrived early with a few people, which makes me think the army's main mass was actually late. I was actually quite confused as to how the hell we all left the same exact region, and delayed, yet some arrived early. I mean, I'd understand if others were early and I was late like last time, but I delayed and was part of the early arrivals if I'm not mistaken.

Bah, hell if I know. Memorial Day was a drunken, sunburn-filled haze.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: mikm on June 02, 2012, 08:00:48 PM
Astrum is becoming masive! :'(
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on June 02, 2012, 08:49:32 PM
What can I say, we rock! 8)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Zakilevo on June 02, 2012, 08:56:16 PM
At this rate, Astrum will become the biggest realm in BM. Hehe. Hopefully no more region will join until I return from the tournament... tax rate is killing my region.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Feylonis on June 02, 2012, 09:13:48 PM
They're taking over Wallershire right now. Might as well count Vynar, too, since it's only adjacent to Wallershire.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on June 02, 2012, 09:53:17 PM
Let Astrum deal with a bloated mass of traitorous unkown nobles.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: JPierreD on June 03, 2012, 03:11:40 AM
Let Astrum deal with a bloated mass of traitorous unkown nobles.

You would do yourself a real good favor by not posting anymore in this sub-forum.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Zakilevo on June 03, 2012, 04:18:04 AM
You would do yourself a real good favor by not posting anymore in this sub-forum.
+1
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Foundation on June 03, 2012, 04:29:27 AM
Astrum doesn't seem that big to me... Maybe my standards are outdated. :-/
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: GoldPanda on June 03, 2012, 05:02:23 AM
You would do yourself a real good favor by not posting anymore in this sub-forum.

I am shocked, SHOCKED, that people would let what was said on the forums affect them in-game!
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on June 03, 2012, 05:14:25 AM
 You can go eat a bowl of hotdogs!
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Dante Silverfire on June 03, 2012, 05:31:37 AM
I am shocked, SHOCKED, that people would let what was said on the forums affect them in-game!

That's like being shocked that people take information from RP's and use it IC for their characters even if they shouldn't know about it.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: GoldPanda on June 03, 2012, 10:05:59 AM
Context: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjbPi00k_ME
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Foundation on June 03, 2012, 02:49:15 PM
Hahahaha, good one. :)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Kellaine on June 05, 2012, 01:03:53 AM
You can go eat a bowl of hotdogs!

Now that is a terrible insult... lol
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: dustole on June 05, 2012, 05:20:33 PM
You have successfully bought the "Sceptre of the Maddening Star" from Haktoo. Congratulations.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Arrakis on June 05, 2012, 05:24:12 PM
Interesting. So it is possible to have religion-related unique items in the game? I always wondered whether this could be arranged.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on June 05, 2012, 05:29:45 PM
Interesting. So it is possible to have religion-related unique items in the game? I always wondered whether this could be arranged.

Allison renamed the Duchy of Golden Farrow to the Duchy of the Maddening Star a while ago, so it's possible that the code that generates unique item names picked that up somehow.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: JPierreD on June 05, 2012, 05:33:00 PM
Allison renamed the Duchy of Golden Farrow to the Duchy of the Maddening Star a while ago, so it's possible that the code that generates unique item names picked that up somehow.

So could we ever get the I Can't Believe It's Not Butter Knife?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on June 05, 2012, 05:47:19 PM
So could we ever get the I Can't Believe It's Not Butter Knife?

Haha, you know I have no idea. I have no idea at all how those names are generated, so what I said earlier has no basis in fact, it's just speculation.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: dustole on June 05, 2012, 05:50:41 PM
I had to cut a deal to get this one made.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on June 05, 2012, 05:59:18 PM
I had to cut a deal to get this one made.

Now that is interesting.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Arrakis on June 05, 2012, 06:00:14 PM
I just hoped it was done IC.  ;D
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on June 05, 2012, 06:06:29 PM
I just hoped it was done IC.  ;D

It was, she traded the Aegis of the Zuma for it.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: JPierreD on June 05, 2012, 07:43:35 PM
It was, she traded the Aegis of the Zuma for it.

And her soul...
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Anaris on June 05, 2012, 07:49:11 PM
And her soul...

Nah, that leaked out through the hole in her head some time ago.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Feylonis on June 05, 2012, 07:58:40 PM
I thought the Aegis was traded for assistance in the Terran war?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on June 05, 2012, 08:37:42 PM
He he he ... this is almost like the Big Reveal in one of those makeover shows. But this isn't the end yet. Oh no... there is still more to come!
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on June 05, 2012, 10:47:06 PM
She didn't need to trade for that. There was a unit of Zuma's led by Fang Fang that needed to go home, and the Zuma didn't like Terran at all, and so decided to spoil their tea party.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Kellaine on June 05, 2012, 11:11:33 PM
She didn't need to trade for that. There was a unit of Zuma's led by Fang Fang that needed to go home, and the Zuma didn't like Terran at all, and so decided to spoil their tea party.

You mean the whole thing with  the daimons was just a ploy?  I knew she was sneaky, but that was awesome.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Dante Silverfire on June 05, 2012, 11:26:56 PM
He he he ... this is almost like the Big Reveal in one of those makeover shows. But this isn't the end yet. Oh no... there is still more to come!

Yes, the Sceptre has the ability to throw lightning bolts!!!! mwahahaha!

(JK)

Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Galvez on June 06, 2012, 12:15:58 PM
Yes, the Sceptre has the ability to throw lightning bolts!!!! mwahahaha!
Only Tom wield that kind of power!  :P
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Ehndras on June 06, 2012, 04:44:41 PM
It could be a golden mushroom-shaped scepter of the gods that spills forth a tempestuous torrent of flying dildoes for all I care, though I do believe that would be equally... Shocking.



...Sorry, I had to.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Anaris on June 06, 2012, 04:53:01 PM
Nah, I think it looks more like this one (http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lnvhel9VWT1qcu0is.jpg).
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on June 06, 2012, 04:55:08 PM
Nah, I think it looks more like this one (http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lnvhel9VWT1qcu0is.jpg).

Out of curiosity, what is that an image of? When I saw it I immediately thought of the Queen of Hearts from Alice in Wonderland. Just wondering if it is in fact related, or if it's just some random image of a scepter you found online.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Anaris on June 06, 2012, 05:00:35 PM
Out of curiosity, what is that an image of? When I saw it I immediately thought of the Queen of Hearts from Alice in Wonderland. Just wondering if it is in fact related, or if it's just some random image of a scepter you found online.

Heh, it's actually the Garnet Rod that Sailor Pluto uses in Sailor Moon ;D

This based on a whimsical conversation I had on IRC with Dustole about finding additional unique items for the other two Stars, and combining them to form the Holy Grail.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Velax on June 06, 2012, 05:51:48 PM
So it's actually possible to get items named how you want them? But only by doing deals with Zuma or, presumably, daimons?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on June 06, 2012, 06:01:53 PM
So it's actually possible to get items named how you want them? But only by doing deals with Zuma or, presumably, daimons?

Well, with Tom's support anything is possible... I imagine that it would be quite difficult to get yourself into a position where an NPC owed you this sort of favor though.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Uzamaki on June 06, 2012, 06:02:57 PM
Well, with Tom's support, anything is possible... I imagine that it would be quite difficult to get yourself into a position where an NPC owed you this sort of favor though.

World domination perhaps! Or maybe just simply giving them Asylon/Terran lands?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on June 06, 2012, 06:09:40 PM
World domination perhaps! Or maybe just simply giving them Asylon/Terran lands?

I doubt the Zuma would care about any of those things. If they were in the world domination racket, you'd know it by now. Also, most of the 'Moot would probably be a smoking wasteland.

If this is something you actually want to pursue IG, then you probably need to delve much deeper than I have into who the Zuma are and what they want. Allison found something they wanted badly, which is how she got her boon. You would have to discover something of comparable value to the Zuma to reap a similar reward. I'm not aware of anything else that fits that bill at this time, but then I also know very little about the Zuma and have not interacted with them IG at all.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Feylonis on June 06, 2012, 06:12:32 PM
Kosht and Echiur are going to the Zuma, while Via/Itau go to Kabrinskia.

*drains Uppervia resources to D'Hara*
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: dustole on June 06, 2012, 06:19:05 PM
I didnt get to name it myself.  I just asked if they had any items relating to the bloodstars.  So now SA has its first relic.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Graeth on June 06, 2012, 08:36:46 PM
Kosht and Echiur are going to the Zuma, while Via/Itau go to Kabrinskia.

*drains Uppervia resources to D'Hara*

They could have had both (and even held Kosht for awhile) but gave them away freely to Asylon.  They seem to have little interest in acquiring new lands.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on June 06, 2012, 08:41:49 PM
Kosht and Echiur are going to the Zuma, while Via/Itau go to Kabrinskia.

*drains Uppervia resources to D'Hara*

The war is not done yet. Aurvandiil is yet to crash into Astrum...
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Foundation on June 07, 2012, 01:04:53 AM
Tim + Sailor Moon = Holy Grail.  Am I understanding this thread correctly?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Zakilevo on June 07, 2012, 02:06:43 AM
Tim + Sailor Moon = Holy Grail.  Am I understanding this thread correctly?
I don't see the connection between Tim, Sailor Moon and Holy Grail... :o
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: egamma on June 07, 2012, 02:47:24 PM
I don't see the connection between Tim, Sailor Moon and Holy Grail... :o

go to page 78.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Zakilevo on June 08, 2012, 05:12:24 AM
go to page 78.

Oh... Now I get it. Thanks :)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: ^ban^ on June 08, 2012, 01:13:04 PM
Heh, it's actually the Garnet Rod that Sailor Pluto uses in Sailor Moon ;D

This based on a whimsical conversation I had on IRC with Dustole about finding additional unique items for the other two Stars, and combining them to form the Holy Grail.

I'll never understand why so many conversations with you lead to Sailor Moon.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Ehndras on June 08, 2012, 03:22:40 PM
Its best not to understand, my friend.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: egamma on June 08, 2012, 03:40:37 PM
I'll never understand why so many conversations with you lead to Sailor Moon.

Everyone has their dream girl...or planet/deity/whatever, I don't feel like looking it up on wikipedia.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chenier on June 26, 2012, 01:36:13 AM
Can't wait for the item to be lost when sent for repairs.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Penchant on June 26, 2012, 06:02:54 AM
Wow, conversation about SA is dying it seems.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: OFaolain on June 26, 2012, 07:28:45 AM
Wow, conversation about SA is dying it seems.

Well, you know, we've got wars to fight, people to kill, cities to burn; we've got a lot on our plates as it is.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Dante Silverfire on June 27, 2012, 12:04:24 AM
So a schism has begun!!! Or has it?

My guess is Asylon chickens out when they realize they'll provoke a Crusade. Thoughts?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Meneldur on June 27, 2012, 12:16:27 AM
Well I have to say that for our long-awaited first "schism", it is a bit of a let down. Not only was Allison not involved but apparently its now not a schism, but an unrelated faith that just so happens to include similar beliefs... >:(

Oh well, I'm pretty sure a crusade is still on the way ;D
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on June 27, 2012, 12:18:04 AM
It's not a schism, it's a heresy. A schism implies legitimacy.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Penchant on June 27, 2012, 12:18:56 AM
Well I have to say that for our long-awaited first "schism", it is a bit of a let down. Not only was Allison not involved but apparently its now not a schism, but an unrelated faith that just so happens to include similar beliefs... >:(

Oh well, I'm pretty sure a crusade is still on the way ;D
The thing is if it was Allison there would be no crusade and you know it.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Dante Silverfire on June 27, 2012, 12:21:24 AM
It's not a schism, it's a heresy. A schism implies legitimacy.

I disagree. A schism is never legitimate. If it was, there would be no schism. Schism's are always looked at as heresy by the other side. That's what makes them fun, interesting, and that's why the winner determines who was the true heretic.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Meneldur on June 27, 2012, 12:42:05 AM
The thing is if it was Allison there would be no crusade and you know it.

It might not be a very effective one (depending on who takes what side), but as long as Mathurin remains Prophet, an Allisonite schism is pretty much guaranteed to cause a crusade.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on June 27, 2012, 12:44:07 AM
And is therefore likely not to occur. Allison may be crazy, but she isn't stupid.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on June 27, 2012, 12:54:07 AM
I disagree. A schism is never legitimate. If it was, there would be no schism. Schism's are always looked at as heresy by the other side. That's what makes them fun, interesting, and that's why the winner determines who was the true heretic.

Which is why there is an obvious orthodox, non-heretical, non-schismatic form of Islam or Christianity.

No; schism's are defined by the presence of 2 factions with strong legitimizing claims and strong political power. And usually schisms don't end with one side winning. The only demographically major schism of a major religion I can think of where one faction has well and truly died is Arian Christianity; but I'll admit I'm not extremely well versed in Hindu and Buddhist history.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Norrel on June 27, 2012, 12:55:20 AM
Which is why there is an obvious orthodox, non-heretical, non-schismatic form of Islam or Christianity.

No; schism's are defined by the presence of 2 factions with strong legitimizing claims and strong political power. And usually schisms don't end with one side winning. The only demographically major schism of a major religion I can think of where one faction has well and truly died is Arian Christianity; but I'll admit I'm not extremely well versed in Hindu and Buddhist history.

From what I understand, the catholic church stomped out heresy with some efficiency.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on June 27, 2012, 01:06:48 AM
lol yeah tell that to the myriads of protestant faiths..
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Dante Silverfire on June 27, 2012, 01:12:57 AM
Which is why there is an obvious orthodox, non-heretical, non-schismatic form of Islam or Christianity.

No; schism's are defined by the presence of 2 factions with strong legitimizing claims and strong political power. And usually schisms don't end with one side winning. The only demographically major schism of a major religion I can think of where one faction has well and truly died is Arian Christianity; but I'll admit I'm not extremely well versed in Hindu and Buddhist history.

Christianity has had a schism and it quite clearly involved both sides considering the other heretics in their beliefs.Alternatively, the presence now of sects in Christianity at least still consists of the various sects vehemently disagreeing with the others. Just because war isn't apparent between them recently due to modern times doesn't mean that its wasn't very divisive.

At any rate, this is somewhat off topic.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Norrel on June 27, 2012, 03:23:23 AM
lol yeah tell that to the myriads of protestant faiths..

Martin Luther was very late medieval. For the vast majority of european history the catholic church stamped down pretty effectively on most heresy. And in the case of protestantism, they certainly tried. They weren't very nonchalant about the whole thing.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Anaris on June 27, 2012, 03:32:19 AM
...Do you really think that the Protestant Reformation was the first major schism in the Christian Church?

If so, you really need to read up more on things like Oriental Orthodoxy and Eastern Orthodoxy.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Norrel on June 27, 2012, 04:34:22 AM
...Do you really think that the Protestant Reformation was the first major schism in the Christian Church?

If so, you really need to read up more on things like Oriental Orthodoxy and Eastern Orthodoxy.

I never said I thought it was a first, I was responding to someone else's example.

And again, those were not "friendly" separations. The catholic church was in no way consenting to or even recognizing the creation of the orthodox church. What's more, the amount of heresies squashed out by the church outnumbers the few times where (major) opposing churches were successfully established.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on June 27, 2012, 05:22:02 AM
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Daycryn on June 27, 2012, 05:23:09 AM
Things are getting a bit interesting.  8)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on June 27, 2012, 05:42:50 AM
No its getting annoying and not what I intended. Just another excuse to gank Asylon...
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Daycryn on June 27, 2012, 05:46:05 AM
Well, take a break, don't get so emotionally involved. Remember it's just a game. Of course characters are going to go after Asylon. Characters are all bastards, with a few exceptions, and they're all political, with no exceptions.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: OFaolain on June 27, 2012, 05:56:34 AM
No its getting annoying and not what I intended. Just another excuse to gank Asylon...

"Everyone" (Astrum/Iashalur [and I don't even know if Corsanctum's really in this]) was already attacking Asylon, that's what happens when you smack everyone around you in the nose; you can't just backpedal off a hyper-aggressive war declared off a truce while simultaneously denouncing the claims they consider theirs by right of blood, it just isn't diplomatically possible.  Give it a rest.

Speaking of the Bloodmoon Cult, in character, you have Eoghan convinced that every bloodmoon tree on Dwilight needs to be burned to the ground; he believes the fruit addles you to the point where you can no longer act rationally (he perceives Glaumring the character to be excessively paranoid, irrational and prone to fits of rage, which he attributes to extended consumption of bloodmoon fruit).
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on June 27, 2012, 06:02:50 AM
This singular drive to destroy Asylon will create a hundred new Asylons to sprout from the earth like fruit trees.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: OFaolain on June 27, 2012, 06:08:07 AM
This singular drive to destroy Asylon will create a hundred new Asylons to sprout from the earth like fruit trees.

AFAIK that's not the plan, though.  Pretty sure they just want Itau duchy, but I could be wrong; Eoghan's ruler at least isn't sharing much.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on June 27, 2012, 06:33:43 AM
They wont get it. And if they do they'll never hold it.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: vonGenf on June 27, 2012, 09:16:25 AM
The thing is if it was Allison there would be no crusade and you know it.

You're wrong; the world would burn.

The difference, though, is that while I know which side I would be on, I'm not sure on which side I would bet.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on June 27, 2012, 09:26:01 AM
She doesnt need a schism anymore she's got SA right in her hand finally. Its the others who have lost SA. Not the other way around.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: dustole on June 27, 2012, 03:32:04 PM
She doesnt need a schism anymore she's got SA right in her hand finally. Its the others who have lost SA. Not the other way around.


I only wish Allison had as much power as you claim!
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on June 27, 2012, 04:59:24 PM
Oh don't be so humble.  ;D
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Darksun on June 27, 2012, 06:32:28 PM
Speaking of the Bloodmoon Cult, in character, you have Eoghan convinced that every bloodmoon tree on Dwilight needs to be burned to the ground; he believes the fruit addles you to the point where you can no longer act rationally (he perceives Glaumring the character to be excessively paranoid, irrational and prone to fits of rage, which he attributes to extended consumption of bloodmoon fruit).

You're not the first to come to this conclusion. The Storm Lands are being stripped as we speak.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on June 27, 2012, 07:14:29 PM
Oh don't be so humble.  ;D

Please, Allison couldn't marshal this kind of response all by herself. She's got far too many enemies to build an alliance like the one against Asylon.  8)

That's not to say she's not capable of manipulating other people to do it for her, though. You could argue that she did so in this case. That depends on how much of what happened she anticipated. I think she's crafty enough that she probably was banking on something like what happened to occur.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on June 27, 2012, 07:20:47 PM
Allison has given an oath to the prophet not to schism the church. She knows that if she did, it would bring an instant Crusade against her.

Whether or not this results in a crusade has yet to be determined. What we have seen so far is that the Glaumring character has lost all semblance of credibility that he may still have had. The continual waffling, backtracking, and changing of positions has really driven home to pretty much the entire church that he simply can't be trusted.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on June 27, 2012, 08:11:18 PM
Perhaps it is the church that cannot be trusted and my actions a mere symptom of its sickness. I had just as many secretly congratulating me as condeming me. And the few who openly defended me. I also discovered some very very very surprising cracks in the churches loyalty from some very important people. You say Lady Allison is hated. The hate will build soon enough and boil over. SA has made more enemies than Glaumring ever has. Hell im just another Brom, Garrett, Allison of the week. Someone else will truly do a better job than I and send the house of cards toppling. This war, this chaos has been planned for ages. Its not done yet by any means.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on June 27, 2012, 09:03:33 PM
Perhaps it is the church that cannot be trusted and my actions a mere symptom of its sickness.
Or... not.

Quote
I had just as many secretly congratulating me as condeming me.
Yeah, I've played that game before, too.

Quote
And the few who openly defended me.
I don't think anyone openly defended the Glaumring character. There were several that said a Crusade was not called for, and that we should investigate the faith before we wipe it out. But I don't think anyone personally defended Glaumring.

Quote
You say Lady Allison is hated. The hate will build soon enough and boil over.
We've planned for that.

Quote
This war, this chaos has been planned for ages. Its not done yet by any means.
Great. We need a good war.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on June 27, 2012, 10:19:29 PM
Oh Indirik are you one of those computers in a 50's sci-fi movie that has an answer for everything?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on June 27, 2012, 10:23:00 PM
Nah, I don't have any of those cheesy, flashing lights.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Darksun on June 27, 2012, 10:30:35 PM
Nah, I don't have any of those cheesy, flashing lights.

Just one glowing red one, Dave.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on June 27, 2012, 10:33:49 PM
"Glaumring... What ae you doing Glaumring? I wouldn't do that if I were you..."
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on June 27, 2012, 10:39:38 PM
"Daisy, Daisy, give me your answer, do..."
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Dante Silverfire on June 27, 2012, 11:23:21 PM
Hell im just another Brom, Garrett, Allison of the week.

That's not true. You see, you can't claim to be on our level yet, because even though people hate us, we still manage to retain power at the end of everything and still have a group that trusts us.

Although most of that doesn't apply to Garret.

If people are smart, the best way to topple SA, is to just help them conquer the entirety of Dwilight. With no where left to take, the bickering will grow until a schism does occur. At that point, both sides will kill each other, while all the false converts promote the chaos.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on June 27, 2012, 11:39:15 PM
Brom, you were kicked out of your old realm. I wouldnt call it massive support.


Plus your topple SA idea is ludicrous. I'd fly a horse down a trench and fire an arrow down its intake shaft and then watch SA blow up from a distance. Im choosing the Luke Skywalker way to go out fighting, you can go the Darth way.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Penchant on June 28, 2012, 12:11:59 AM
Brom, you were kicked out of your old realm. I wouldnt call it massive support.
But once he was in Kabrinskia he soon got a realm council position. And he didn't say he has massive support in Lurias but he does have some from what I have heard. Also you aren't quite an Allison or Brom, they are schemers and successful ones at that, so far I haven't seen you scheme or manipulate others successfully.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Dante Silverfire on June 28, 2012, 12:19:26 AM
Brom, you were kicked out of your old realm. I wouldnt call it massive support.

I left of my own free will. I have both times. Granted, each time I left I had very little support at the time anyway, but still. I do have some minor support though still there. Probably just enough so that when I get back I am still sentenced to death, but I avoid having my head placed on a stake.

Plus your topple SA idea is ludicrous. I'd fly a horse down a trench and fire an arrow down its intake shaft and then watch SA blow up from a distance. Im choosing the Luke Skywalker way to go out fighting, you can go the Darth way.

See that's your problem. You insist on "going out fighting". I don't plan on "going out" at all. I intend to continue to hold power with small spurts of downtime in between. I've got a reputation to keep up anyway.

But, in all seriousness my way is likely the only way SA would lose, other than everyone just losing interest, which is unlikely because so many people in SA are greedy and they use SA for power.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Penchant on June 28, 2012, 12:33:05 AM
Quick question I will learn in a few days anyways but is the tournament your wedding ceremony?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Dante Silverfire on June 28, 2012, 12:35:52 AM
Quick question I will learn in a few days anyways but is the tournament your wedding ceremony?

Yes. The wedding will take place a day or two preceding the ceremony itself which is to be RP'ed to everyone, and then the tournament is the celebration.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on June 28, 2012, 12:49:10 AM
But once he was in Kabrinskia he soon got a realm council position. And he didn't say he has massive support in Lurias but he does have some from what I have heard. Also you aren't quite an Allison or Brom, they are schemers and successful ones at that, so far I haven't seen you scheme or manipulate others successfully.

Aye, because I am not a schemer or manipulator at all really.  :)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Darksun on June 28, 2012, 01:59:56 AM
I thought you were done with posting on the forums and talking in the SA channel and all that? Veil of silence or cultural wall or somesuch?

I remember those few days, when life was pretty sane.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on June 28, 2012, 03:36:54 AM
I came back to annoy you.  8)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Penchant on June 28, 2012, 04:59:21 AM
I came back to annoy you.  8)
Just saying the constant, I will never again talk in these halls and then 5 min later your sending out some huge message doesn't help when everyone thinks you can't be trusted because you change your mind so often.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on June 28, 2012, 05:04:39 AM
My favorite:

"Asylon has founded its own variant of the bloodstars faith 'the Cult of Bloodmoon'...."

4 hours later:

"... the word 'Variant' was wrong and 'Bloodstars' was wrong"
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Velax on June 28, 2012, 05:39:06 AM
We found "variant of the Bloodstars" didn't focus test well.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: OFaolain on June 28, 2012, 07:57:29 AM
We found "variant of the Bloodstars" didn't focus test well.

It really just depends how you define the word "of".
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on June 28, 2012, 08:01:48 AM
lol, its not about trust... Its about awesome and knowing that out if the 3 or so years I've played here I have been a lying double faced untrustful prick to one person only... Allison Kabrinski, cry me a river. I have run two kingdoms, elected twice in Asylon and once by coup. Im trusty rusty, got a memory that goes back to Melodia baby. I aint perfect but you cant play up the untrust too much or you come up looking like a fuddy dud.. Yo, word up


Im drunk wtf...
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on June 28, 2012, 02:40:29 PM
Plus your topple SA idea is ludicrous. I'd fly a horse down a trench and fire an arrow down its intake shaft and then watch SA blow up from a distance. Im choosing the Luke Skywalker way to go out fighting, you can go the Darth way.

I love this quote.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: West-[Addridae] on June 29, 2012, 12:46:18 PM
Dang. Reading the last couple pages make me wish I was in on this whole thing earlier.  I have a feeling I'm missing out on a lot, especially the part where Allison's departure was already accounted for. SA and their plots! And to be honest, I still haven't figured out how Asylon managed to piss off every theocracy on Western Dwilight.

Gonna be tough to nudge my way back into the old boy's networks haha.

For the record, Glaumring, you should stay in SA! Averyl need an Allison to look after!
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on June 29, 2012, 04:56:10 PM
Yeah but its so much more fun doing something new. Been in SA for years. I dont want to see a homogenized SA map. I want to see little kingdoms fighting like mad about faith and land. The huge SA alliance is boring. They spend more time arguing in the church than just stabbing eachother to see who is right. Like c'mon its called battlemaster. Not talkmaster!
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on June 29, 2012, 06:46:16 PM
I enjoy the talking part too. Besides, we have a war at the moment.  ;D
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on June 29, 2012, 07:08:31 PM
 ;D
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: BardicNerd on June 29, 2012, 07:10:26 PM
Heh . . . "Glaumring is the true embodiment of the Maddening!"
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on June 29, 2012, 07:18:25 PM
I swear the more I want to leave this church the harder they try to pull me back in...  :P
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on June 29, 2012, 07:30:22 PM
You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave!
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Sacha on June 29, 2012, 07:30:49 PM
You can take the noble out of SA, but you cannot take SA out of the noble!
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on June 29, 2012, 07:31:43 PM
We should have warning labels.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on June 29, 2012, 07:32:33 PM
Someone call OSHA!
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Sacha on June 29, 2012, 07:34:35 PM
We should have warning labels.

"Warning: Using SA may result in sudden loss of sanity, widespread civil warfare and auto-trepanations."
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chenier on June 29, 2012, 10:58:36 PM
Whack-a-Saxon anyone?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: DamnTaffer on June 29, 2012, 11:12:32 PM
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on June 29, 2012, 11:40:42 PM
Maybe, but you're doing a great impression.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: DamnTaffer on June 29, 2012, 11:59:40 PM
Maybe, but you're doing a great impression.

Feel free to elaborate that statement Magistrate
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on June 30, 2012, 12:24:44 AM
Feel free to elaborate that statement Magistrate

And what exactly does me being a Magistrate have to do with anything?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: DamnTaffer on June 30, 2012, 12:29:22 AM
And what exactly does me being a Magistrate have to do with anything?

It is a title, which I chose to address you by, as you could address a doctor as "Doctor Bob" or simply "Bob" or even "Doctor".
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chenier on June 30, 2012, 05:03:46 AM
It is a title, which I chose to address you by, as you could address a doctor as "Doctor Bob" or simply "Bob" or even "Doctor".

I don't think it should be used. We aren't "special" outside of the courtroom. We are players like everyone else who happen to participate in rules violation reviews. Addressing one of us by that title outside of the courtroom seems inappropriate to me.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: DamnTaffer on June 30, 2012, 05:16:24 AM
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chenier on June 30, 2012, 05:37:56 AM
Then I'll not use it again. But back on topic please do elaborate Geronus

Please do, I have no idea what the comments below mine meant...
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: DamnTaffer on July 01, 2012, 12:24:54 AM
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Chenier on July 01, 2012, 03:47:05 AM
But Chenier, Thulsoma long since went.

Went... to Aurvandil?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: NoblesseChevaleresque on July 01, 2012, 07:00:51 PM
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: DamnTaffer on July 01, 2012, 07:28:00 PM
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on July 01, 2012, 07:37:05 PM
It's very hard to track them. We know that several of them just abandoned old accounts and created new ones. The fact that few/none of the player histories show a Thulsoma connection is a poor indicator.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on July 01, 2012, 08:04:23 PM
They didn't. Though thank you for once again confirming magistrate bias against Aurvandil.

Huh?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on July 01, 2012, 08:05:16 PM
No.

I seem to recall more went to Barca, D'Hara and Madina than went to Aurvandil.

Aurvandil has maybe two nobles who had characters in Thulsoma, until we gained two more from Barca, and only a handful of players who used to have a character in Thulsoma. This nonsense that Aurvandil is Thulsoman is getting quite annoying.

I don't have the time at this exact moment to check the facts on this; but I'm pretty sure this is factually not the case. But maybe I'm wrong. Will check later tonight.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on July 01, 2012, 08:06:32 PM
Huh?
Confirmation bias. When you're convinced everyone hates you, then everything you see proves how right you are.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Uzamaki on July 01, 2012, 08:13:59 PM
Confirmation bias. When you're convinced everyone hates you, then everything you see proves how right you are.

AH HA! I KNEW YOU HATED ME!
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: NoblesseChevaleresque on July 01, 2012, 08:40:47 PM
Well, I'll fact check for you.

The characters who were in Thulsoma are: Raviel, scyhtherion and Sothcynning.
The characters who were in Thulsoma but joined from Barca are: Tostig (Who was a Summerdalian), Alyssa (Who was an Astrumite).

So for a total of five characters who were in Thulsoma are now in Aurvandil, so less than a tenth of the noble count of Aurvandil. As for players who have had characters in Thulsoma, that would be: Infaustus Godhelm (Caerwynite), Vahanian, Herousmalswyrd, and that's it. Completely combined, that's eight players who have had characters in Thulsoma that we know of. Not even a sixth of the player count of Aurvandil, yes, because Aurvandil is totally Saxons.

As for any possible players who deleted and made new accounts, well fair enough, they would to in order to escape the curse of being called a Saxon, and Saxon is only really an I.G. definition, or at least I hope it is and this isn't an OOC vendetta against any and all players who ever were in Saxon Thulsoma, because it would certainly suck to have all of Aurvandil branded as Saxons because a few players have an OOC hunch some of us might actually have been in Thulsoma at some point in the past. At any rate, the nobles holding power in Aurvandil, aren't Saxon, the nobles who founded Aurvandil aren't Saxon (They're Orvandeaux) and the majority of nobles aren't Saxon, they are a mismatch of nobles from all over the continents.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on July 01, 2012, 08:55:53 PM
At any rate, the nobles holding power in Aurvandil, aren't Saxon, the nobles who founded Aurvandil aren't Saxon (They're Orvandeaux) and the majority of nobles aren't Saxon, they are a mismatch of nobles from all over the continents.
Good to hear.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: NoblesseChevaleresque on July 01, 2012, 09:05:35 PM
Good to hear.

Very.

Mendicant would be quite pissed if the Saxons he spent his youth slaughtering took over his Kingdom and culture. The Saxons are after all, simple northern barbarians living in wooden huts and stone caves they call a stronghold. Whereas Aurvandil is a sprawling metropolis of stone and marble and civilised nobles dressed in the finery of vast wealth and success.

Kind of like the difference between Aurvandil and Asylon actually, which Glaumring pointed out. But then I don't think anyone takes opulence and displaying wealth as seriously as Aurvandil does.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on July 01, 2012, 09:59:14 PM
Well, I'll fact check for you.

The characters who were in Thulsoma are: Raviel, scyhtherion and Sothcynning.
The characters who were in Thulsoma but joined from Barca are: Tostig (Who was a Summerdalian), Alyssa (Who was an Astrumite).

So for a total of five characters who were in Thulsoma are now in Aurvandil, so less than a tenth of the noble count of Aurvandil. As for players who have had characters in Thulsoma, that would be: Infaustus Godhelm (Caerwynite), Vahanian, Herousmalswyrd, and that's it. Completely combined, that's eight players who have had characters in Thulsoma that we know of. Not even a sixth of the player count of Aurvandil, yes, because Aurvandil is totally Saxons.

As for any possible players who deleted and made new accounts, well fair enough, they would to in order to escape the curse of being called a Saxon, and Saxon is only really an I.G. definition, or at least I hope it is and this isn't an OOC vendetta against any and all players who ever were in Saxon Thulsoma, because it would certainly suck to have all of Aurvandil branded as Saxons because a few players have an OOC hunch some of us might actually have been in Thulsoma at some point in the past. At any rate, the nobles holding power in Aurvandil, aren't Saxon, the nobles who founded Aurvandil aren't Saxon (They're Orvandeaux) and the majority of nobles aren't Saxon, they are a mismatch of nobles from all over the continents.

Families with connections in Thulsoma or Averoth (not considering Nivemus, Arcachon, or Thalmarkin connections):

Chambers
Umpeta Perticta
Griffirtaen
Yusuke
Metisette
Brythonic
Gryffine
House of Drakon
Lyirchtsars
Azul
Mnemic
Armityle
Cordon D'Anerville
Cedillo
Principe
Lurdigala
Sutherland
Godwin
Blint


Naturally, many of them are rather distant ties.

But this is why many of us call it a Saxon realm. Because, from an outsider perspective, there are about 20 families dating back to either Thulsoma or Averoth. And when you say there are only 5 "characters," that isn't very reassuring.

ICly too, those families surely date back to Saxon areas, so claiming their whole ethnic background changed seems... implausible.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: DamnTaffer on July 01, 2012, 11:44:49 PM
Families with connections in Thulsoma or Averoth (not considering Nivemus, Arcachon, or Thalmarkin connections):

Chambers - Thulsoma and Averoth and Thalmarkin
Umpeta Perticta - Averoth
Griffirtaen - Averoth
Yusuke - Astrumite, No relation to either realms
Metisette - Thulsoman
Brythonic - Thulsoman
Gryffine - Averoth
House of Drakon - Astrum then Averoth
Lyirchtsars - Thulsoman / Averothian
Azul - Averoth
Mnemic - Thulsoman / Averothian
Armityle - Thulsoman
Cordon D'Anerville - Averothian
Cedillo -  Averothian
Principe - Thulsoman
Lurdigala - Thulsoman... After being an experienced player for serveral years
Sutherland - Thulsoman
Godwin - Thulsoman
Blint - Thulsoman

Updated for fact checking / clarifications
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: DamnTaffer on July 01, 2012, 11:49:40 PM
16 Nobles from Averoth or Thulsoma, 1 from Astrum and non of these names I reconise as being particularly influential in Aurvandil, except Blint.

On a side note, his title on his family page has the grammar all wrong.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on July 02, 2012, 01:04:59 AM
Yeah, I don't know how important they all are; I'm just saying how it can appear to an outsider.

But we're not talking about SA now. So.

SA! How 'bout them stars?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on July 02, 2012, 01:48:33 AM
Maddening is bright tonight, with Austere superior, but dark. Sounds like a great omen for a forum flamefest!
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on July 02, 2012, 06:57:14 AM
Hay guyz whats going on? 8)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on July 09, 2012, 05:02:29 PM
Oh noes! We're screwed now. Brom Silverfire is an elder...

/me shudders

Congratulations, Brom. You have a strong backing in Kabrinskia. :)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Zakilevo on July 09, 2012, 07:08:10 PM
Oh noes! We're screwed now. Brom Silverfire is an elder...

/me shudders

Congratulations, Brom. You have a strong backing in Kabrinskia. :)

:o... What happened to the church while I was struggling in Solaria?!
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Foundation on July 09, 2012, 07:19:29 PM
Using struggle is not recommended until you deplete all your PP, Zak.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: OFaolain on July 09, 2012, 07:54:47 PM
:o... What happened to the church while I was struggling in Solaria?!

It's basically a guarantee that one noble from Kabrinskia will be a Consul no matter what, just based on the number of followers there and the % of them that vote.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Dante Silverfire on July 09, 2012, 11:49:54 PM
Oh noes! We're screwed now. Brom Silverfire is an elder...

/me shudders

Congratulations, Brom. You have a strong backing in Kabrinskia. :)

I can't help it but take advantage of my resources.

And seriously, its not like no one saw this coming right? I mean really....What'd you think he was gonna do?

:o... What happened to the church while I was struggling in Solaria?!

What doesn't kill you makes you stronger. That's why Brom said if you can't beat 'em, join 'em.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on July 10, 2012, 12:27:29 AM
And then kill them?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Arundel on July 10, 2012, 08:17:58 AM
And then kill them?

Poison them, then run away. Its a Silverfire thing, you wouldn't understand  :P.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Dante Silverfire on July 10, 2012, 11:42:35 PM
Poison them, then run away. Its a Silverfire thing, you wouldn't understand  :P.

Naw, its a Brom thing. The rest of the Silverfire's don't plot at all... *crossing fingers behind back*...

Plus its more like, poison them, run towards then, try and help, fail at stealing wife, crown, titles, and land, repeat, fail again, run away, and start over.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Daycryn on August 04, 2012, 07:24:56 PM
1. Allison asks the Elders what's the deal is with the Magistratum voting process.
2. Rabisu informs her the Elders are currently voting on whether to hold one.
3. Allison urges the Elders to have a vote on the Magistratum.
4. Brance replies that the Elders are voting and won't be rushed.

REPEAT STEPS 1 THROUGH 4 UNTIL EXPLODE.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Foundation on August 04, 2012, 09:05:52 PM
WHat is Magistratum?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on August 04, 2012, 09:16:05 PM
A Magistratum trial is the court for Sanguis Astroism. People accused of heresies and other serious crimes against the faith are tried by the three members of the Magistratum.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: dustole on August 04, 2012, 09:19:13 PM
A Magistratum trial is the court for Sanguis Astroism. People accused of heresies and other serious crimes against the faith are tried by the three members of the Magistratum.


my goal is to slowly perfect the process so that I can use it against others in the future...
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: dustole on August 09, 2012, 03:51:47 AM
So it begins!
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on August 09, 2012, 04:30:58 AM
Weeeeeee!
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: JPierreD on August 09, 2012, 09:17:53 AM
If you want only the Astroists to know what you are talking about (the Magistratum trial opened against Allison), why do you post in here instead of through the SA channel, OoC?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on August 15, 2012, 08:22:13 PM
Well, the Magistratum is happening behind closed doors if it's happening at all. Of far more interest now is the most recent declaration of war...
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Ross on August 15, 2012, 08:28:23 PM
Oh, but it's a war that is not war, it seems it's different and shouldn't affect diplomatic relations. More hugs soon.

We should call it instead:

A momentarily friendly warfare preventive administration procedure with foreign diplomacy reduction for global safety.

I heard it's more accurate.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on August 15, 2012, 08:42:25 PM
I'm having a very hard time getting certain of the elders to participate in selecting magistrates. Elsebeth's player has been very busy and not had time to play. (And has been on vacation for a week, or something.) Chrisxan is being IC belligerent and not participating. So that's two of the three Lights that are not helping move things along. Selection of one of the Magistrate's is the task of the Lights and the Regent, and we're trying to be careful that we follow the rules as best we can with this trial. But with two of four not working, the entire process is worse than pulling teeth. It actively sucks.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Zakilevo on August 15, 2012, 11:07:54 PM
Heh maybe it is time to create a new church with active people :)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on August 15, 2012, 11:16:36 PM
I'm having a very hard time getting certain of the elders to participate in selecting magistrates. Elsebeth's player has been very busy and not had time to play. (And has been on vacation for a week, or something.) Chrisxan is being IC belligerent and not participating. So that's two of the three Lights that are not helping move things along. Selection of one of the Magistrate's is the task of the Lights and the Regent, and we're trying to be careful that we follow the rules as best we can with this trial. But with two of four not working, the entire process is worse than pulling teeth. It actively sucks.

Allison, your plan is working!
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Uzamaki on August 15, 2012, 11:56:50 PM
Heh maybe it is time to create a new church with active people :)

I vote that the Astrocracies all attack each other and the winner lays claim to all the land of the SA nations.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on August 16, 2012, 12:16:58 AM
We could only dream.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: vonGenf on August 16, 2012, 07:51:29 AM
I'm having a very hard time getting certain of the elders to participate in selecting magistrates. Elsebeth's player has been very busy and not had time to play. (And has been on vacation for a week, or something.) Chrisxan is being IC belligerent and not participating. So that's two of the three Lights that are not helping move things along. Selection of one of the Magistrate's is the task of the Lights and the Regent, and we're trying to be careful that we follow the rules as best we can with this trial. But with two of four not working, the entire process is worse than pulling teeth. It actively sucks.

That's what you get for following rules.....
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on August 16, 2012, 04:47:05 PM
I'm having a very hard time getting certain of the elders to participate in selecting magistrates. Elsebeth's player has been very busy and not had time to play. (And has been on vacation for a week, or something.) Chrisxan is being IC belligerent and not participating. So that's two of the three Lights that are not helping move things along. Selection of one of the Magistrate's is the task of the Lights and the Regent, and we're trying to be careful that we follow the rules as best we can with this trial. But with two of four not working, the entire process is worse than pulling teeth. It actively sucks.

You should make Hireshmont a Light.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on August 16, 2012, 05:35:14 PM
You should make Hireshmont a Light.

Are you a priest?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on August 16, 2012, 05:36:55 PM
Are you a priest?

Yes.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on August 16, 2012, 07:25:48 PM
That's one of the things those folks who wrote the charter left out. Important things like how to pick new Lights. How to remove Lights. Or, well, how to remove *anyone*. We're saddled with higher-ups who, for the most part, don't seem to really give a crap about djaily functioning of the church, and only pay attention when their own little world is impinged on.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Vellos on August 16, 2012, 07:27:12 PM
That's one of the things those folks who wrote the charter left out. Important things like how to pick new Lights. How to remove Lights. Or, well, how to remove *anyone*. We're saddled with higher-ups who, for the most part, don't seem to really give a crap about djaily functioning of the church, and only pay attention when their own little world is impinged on.

You could try just demoting them.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on August 16, 2012, 07:30:42 PM
I actually plan to do that very soon.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Daycryn on August 16, 2012, 07:33:50 PM
A Magistrate doesn't have to be a Light, though. It could be anyone, like, even a Luminary.

Just saying.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Creed on August 16, 2012, 07:35:05 PM
Food for thought you could make Creed a elder of the church  ;D
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on August 16, 2012, 07:44:34 PM
A Magistrate doesn't have to be a Light, though. It could be anyone, like, even a Luminary.

A Magistrate could be anyone in good standing in the church. Highly secular ranked nobles preferred. I think we have settled on three, but we need confirmation, or at least a comment, by more of the Elders. If it doesn't happen soon, though, Brance will just go ahead with it, and consequences be damned.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on August 17, 2012, 02:18:03 AM
No more Mr. Nice Guy.  >:(
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: dustole on August 17, 2012, 03:40:06 AM
The Regency needs to a be more powerful.  Its good to see decisive action. 

Im trying to figure out my next move with Allison.  I kind of want to plant a new realm in the ashes of D'hara.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Penchant on August 17, 2012, 03:42:23 AM
Im trying to figure out my next move with Allison.  I kind of want to plant a new realm in the ashes of D'hara.
We aren't dead yet, but sounds like an interesting idea.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Anaris on August 17, 2012, 04:06:45 AM
The Regency needs to a be more powerful.  Its good to see decisive action. 

Im trying to figure out my next move with Allison.  I kind of want to plant a new realm in the ashes of D'hara.

Then you'll need to deal with Solaria's colonists.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on August 17, 2012, 04:18:09 AM
Dustole wants a strong Regent?! Isn't this the same guy who claimed the Regency was deliberately set up as a powerless figurehead? :P
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Penchant on August 17, 2012, 04:22:15 AM
Dustole wants a strong Regent?! Isn't this the same guy who claimed the Regency was deliberately set up as a powerless figurehead? :P
Probably but Allison is much less obvious with her contradictions than Glaumring. This is how I see it, Allison changes her mind on what she wants depending on the situation where Glaumring often can't make his mind.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: dustole on August 17, 2012, 04:30:57 AM
Dustole wants a strong Regent?! Isn't this the same guy who claimed the Regency was deliberately set up as a powerless figurehead? :P


I think it was made that way because they feared Allison would get it. As I remember it, Constantine and Varchilde wanted a figurehead and I argued for more and then Brance became the first Regent.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on August 17, 2012, 05:28:32 AM
Probably but Allison is much less obvious with her contradictions than Glaumring. This is how I see it, Allison changes her mind on what she wants depending on the situation where Glaumring often can't make his mind.

We are two peas in a pod indeed... Ye shall see.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Daycryn on August 18, 2012, 01:50:05 AM
Im trying to figure out my next move with Allison.  I kind of want to plant a new realm in the ashes of D'hara.

You could call it Allisonland. Then maybe it would ally with Kabrinskia, and it'd be called the Allisonland Kabrinskia alliance?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on August 18, 2012, 02:44:22 AM
I still want to see her start a realm named Wonderland.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Velax on August 18, 2012, 05:11:26 AM
And the fortifications of the capital would be called the Wonderwalls.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Perth on August 18, 2012, 07:42:53 AM
And the fortifications of the capital would be called the Wonderwalls.

And they would grow Wonder bread!
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Ehndras on August 18, 2012, 08:03:46 AM
Smeared with hearty bloodmoon jam!

Quote
"Madness never tasted quite so delicious!"
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Daycryn on August 22, 2012, 04:05:53 AM
It occurs to me that "Crusade" might be a bit of a misnomer. The word comes from the word "cross," right, or "crucifix," neither of which are prominent at all in Sanguis Astroism. But then, "Starade" sounds like a sports drink.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: egamma on August 22, 2012, 05:25:05 AM
It occurs to me that "Crusade" might be a bit of a misnomer. The word comes from the word "cross," right, or "crucifix," neither of which are prominent at all in Sanguis Astroism. But then, "Starade" sounds like a sports drink.

Quote
"Coming soon to a keep near you, Starade is what your servants bodies need after a long day of beatings. Starade will also let you push your men to march 13 hours a day instead of 12."
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: vonGenf on August 22, 2012, 09:14:12 AM
It occurs to me that "Crusade" might be a bit of a misnomer. The word comes from the word "cross," right, or "crucifix," neither of which are prominent at all in Sanguis Astroism. But then, "Starade" sounds like a sports drink.

They're the Bloodstars. Surely we can make something out of that.

Bloodrage?
Bloodrade?
General Bloodiness targeted on this area?
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Velax on August 22, 2012, 09:57:18 AM
Bloodquest.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Feylonis on August 22, 2012, 01:51:42 PM
Astrade - "astro", storm
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Anaris on August 22, 2012, 03:31:34 PM
If you actually start looking at the English language, so much of it is influenced by the prominence of Christianity through Europe's history that we'll never get anywhere if we stop to try and rewrite the language to excise its influence.

"Crusade" is just fine. Everyone understands it.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on August 22, 2012, 03:37:17 PM
"Astrade" sounds too much like "Ass Trade".
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on August 22, 2012, 04:15:25 PM
If you actually start looking at the English language, so much of it is influenced by the prominence of Christianity through Europe's history that we'll never get anywhere if we stop to try and rewrite the language to excise its influence.

"Crusade" is just fine. Everyone understands it.

+1
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on August 22, 2012, 05:18:29 PM
This Magistratum trial is coming along very quickly. Of course, when you have virtually no evidence to consider, that tends to speed things up.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: vonGenf on August 22, 2012, 05:22:37 PM
This Magistratum trial is coming along very quickly. Of course, when you have virtually no evidence to consider, that tends to speed things up.

It is indeed looking as though it will be over before the end of the week.

Then again, evidence shmevidence.... you should expect the Spanish Inquisition after all.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: DamnTaffer on August 22, 2012, 05:29:55 PM
It is indeed looking as though it will be over before the end of the week.

Then again, evidence shmevidence.... you should expect the Spanish Inquisition after all.

I thought you were talking about the actual magistrates then :(
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Uzamaki on August 22, 2012, 06:07:41 PM
Astroturf, Dwilight edition.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Daycryn on August 22, 2012, 06:10:14 PM
If you actually start looking at the English language, so much of it is influenced by the prominence of Christianity through Europe's history that we'll never get anywhere if we stop to try and rewrite the language to excise its influence.

"Crusade" is just fine. Everyone understands it.

Well everyone understands "Bible" too, but we don't call the holy writings that.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Uzamaki on August 22, 2012, 06:11:44 PM
Well everyone understands "Bible" too, but we don't call the holy writings that.

For obvious as well as game related reasons.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Anaris on August 22, 2012, 06:14:30 PM
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Uzamaki on August 22, 2012, 06:16:57 PM
and will confuse people if you start using your new words like they're supposed to know what they mean.

We do have some non-English speakers in Battlemaster. They would 'lolwut' at Starade.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on August 22, 2012, 06:20:21 PM
Well everyone understands "Bible" too, but we don't call the holy writings that.

That's because it's a proper noun, for which there are easily understood generic English equivalents (scripture, holy text, sacred text, etc.). Crusade is not a proper noun. It also does not have any synonyms that carry the same religious connotation other than jihad. Of the two terms, I prefer crusade.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: vonGenf on August 22, 2012, 06:23:11 PM
It also does not have any synonyms that carry the same religious connotation other than jihad. Of the two terms, I prefer crusade.

"Holy War"
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Indirik on August 22, 2012, 06:28:08 PM
There could be evidence in the trial if anyone had saved any ot Allison's messages. But unless the Magistrates make a public call for it, I doubt any will surface.

But, meh... IG trials are mostly a sham anyway. Everyone goes into already knowing what they believe. The trials don't change anyone's mind on anything.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Daycryn on August 22, 2012, 06:30:10 PM
I have some letters.  8)
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Geronus on August 22, 2012, 06:31:33 PM
"Holy War"

Fair enough. I still prefer Crusade.
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: vonGenf on August 22, 2012, 06:37:34 PM
I have some letters.  8)

Argh, yes, and you did say so 11 days and 23 hours ago.

Do we want to read them? Gut feelings are so much easier.....
Title: Re: Sanguis Astroism
Post by: Daycryn on August 22, 2012, 06:40:31 PM
Argh, yes, and you did say so 11 days and 23 hours ago.

Do we want to read them? Gut feelings are so much easier.....

I don't know, they're kind of heretical, and reading them gives me a heresy-y feeling. It might be better just to burn them so the ideas don't contaminate others. Especially when we're most likely about to have a.... BLOODY HOLY WAR OF THE