Sanguis Astroism

[Dishman]

I admit that I wanted to stir the pot, but I still hope it doesn't stir people away from the game. It's an online game guild where a lot of decisions are made with little to no cooperation, so I'm not overly concerned about that. Does anyone even recall the lack of interest in the Regency election?

I expect Jonsu will have some fun with old rivals, but I also expect someone with 21 fun medals can see SA going through a new age.

The monster spawns also came at an unanticipated time. It kind of flavors the madness a bit more, I have to say.

With that said, are you amenable to an OOC schism agreement?  I mean it'd render priests basically powerless at working against the other part of the schismatic faction but it would allow people to roleplay acceptance or rejection of the new "Prophet" while retaining their religion.

This sounds like a very good way to approach it. If Stabbity is up for it, it could liven up the church a bit while leaving old-schoolers their own familiar part. 

This is the kind of reaction I'd like to see, rather than people wanting to flip the board and walk away. If this is too much of a backstab for you to handle, is there a way it could be eased that you can tolerate it enough to continue playing a friendly game of backstab? It might have been a mistake to demote myself, as now it is up to Stabbity, but I think he will work with other players.

[Chenier]

Any act of "dissent" or "rebellion" or "backstab" against Jonsu is destructive to SA as a whole.

The more people try, the more, if in time Jonsu abdicates or if schisms are implemented, the Church will be in tatters by then.

I'm not one to play games where my actions are meaningless and the outcome is predetermined.

[dustole]

Exactly,  the only way to oppose this is to actively destroy the thing I literally spent IRL years building.

[De-Legro]

Any act of "dissent" or "rebellion" or "backstab" against Jonsu is destructive to SA as a whole.

The more people try, the more, if in time Jonsu abdicates or if schisms are implemented, the Church will be in tatters by then.

I'm not one to play games where my actions are meaningless and the outcome is predetermined.

That would tend to be the case when a institution has suffered a hostile takeover though. If we discount any hard feelings about the manner the takeover was achieved, then I can't really see a way that makes sense for things to be resolved without some sort of damage to the church, though the degree of damage is certainly something to consider.

[pcw27]

And cause the loss of most of the religion's followers? Not to mention that our own realms are much more exposed to this kind of behavior than hers is.

Her realm supports her. Even if we went to outright destroy Niselur, she could just hop on a ship until the realm is deleted from the database and never even risk capture. She'd likely just go to Asylon, though, which is confy with the Zuma on one side, the seas on another, and Niselur on the other. And without significant SA following in most of their core regions. No way we could crack that nut.

Resistance is utterly futile. Dishman used the click to win button. Nothing more to do. Attempting to resist is to legitimize this click to win situation.

She doesn't have much actual power when you think about it. She can select elders and she can ban lay members of the church, who evidently can then just join again. If the entire priesthood disregards her orders and considers her illegitimate she's not that powerful at all.

[pcw27]

I admit that I wanted to stir the pot, but I still hope it doesn't stir people away from the game. It's an online game guild where a lot of decisions are made with little to no cooperation, so I'm not overly concerned about that. Does anyone even recall the lack of interest in the Regency election?

I expect Jonsu will have some fun with old rivals, but I also expect someone with 21 fun medals can see SA going through a new age.

The monster spawns also came at an unanticipated time. It kind of flavors the madness a bit more, I have to say.

This sounds like a very good way to approach it. If Stabbity is up for it, it could liven up the church a bit while leaving old-schoolers their own familiar part. 

This is the kind of reaction I'd like to see, rather than people wanting to flip the board and walk away. If this is too much of a backstab for you to handle, is there a way it could be eased that you can tolerate it enough to continue playing a friendly game of backstab? It might have been a mistake to demote myself, as now it is up to Stabbity, but I think he will work with other players.

If enough people agree maybe we could have Tom split it into Eastern and Western Astroist Churches. It makes sense that she'd have serious trouble commanding temples and priests located hundreds of miles away which are lorded over by nobles who hate her.

[De-Legro]

She doesn't have much actual power when you think about it. She can select elders and she can ban lay members of the church, who evidently can then just join again. If the entire priesthood disregards her orders and considers her illegitimate she's not that powerful at all.

How long are people going to persist if she simply boots people out as soon as they join? Not saying this is the plan but what do you think the consequences are if everyone that is not a priest is stuck in a infinite loop of join/boot?

[De-Legro]

If enough people agree maybe we could have Tom split it into Eastern and Western Astroist Churches. It makes sense that she'd have serious trouble commanding temples and priests located hundreds of miles away which are lorded over by nobles who hate her.

The chances of direct modification to the live database are so very, very, very low. Besides the fact it would set a precedent, there is so much scope for getting something wrong when manually making edits.

[pcw27]

How long are people going to persist if she simply boots people out as soon as they join? Not saying this is the plan but what do you think the consequences are if everyone that is not a priest is stuck in a infinite loop of join/boot?

The dissenters learn to keep their traps shut.

Form secret societies where people can plot the downfall of the false prophet.

[Feylonis]

I have to say that it's very fun, but I wonder if there -is- a way to effectively counter Jonsu. Basically, the only one left who can actually go against her is the founder (who is gone). I see it as a problem for the religion system, since all it takes is for one Elder to seize control and effectively be untouchable. Maybe there should be a mechanic (heh, schisms, please!) in place so that things like this don't become a sort of "game over" situation -- right now, people within SA can harp on all they like, but there is no viable way to regain control of the religion.

And one of the fun things about SA is the structure. Jonsu may be rendered useless if people just ignore her... but that defeats "fun", and fun is what this should be.

RE: keeping their traps shut and plotting the downfall:

How, exactly? Am I missing a mechanic in place that allows for the removal of an Elder and countering a hostile takeover of a church?

[De-Legro]

The dissenters learn to keep their traps shut.

Form secret societies where people can plot the downfall of the false prophet.

That makes an assumption that only dissenters are kicked.

[pcw27]

That makes an assumption that only dissenters are kicked.

He's said he wont just dismantle the religion. Even if he tried the religion could endure as long as the priests were still there. According to the wiki if he fails to appoint any elders for so long that the temples start to decay the game will automatically select a new leader who can then lead the religion.

RE: keeping their traps shut and plotting the downfall:

How, exactly? Am I missing a mechanic in place that allows for the removal of an Elder and countering a hostile takeover of a church?

Infiltrators, rebellions, bribe a judge, bribe a ruler, refuse to invite her to any dinner parties.

[Dishman]

We all build these sandcastles, and it does suck to see them wash away. It could be much worse.

Like I said before, this was going to happen. I was almost handed the Regency, and I left a decent trail of evidence of dishonesty. There was a power-vacuum and eventually someone would have filled it. I'd prefer a long-term player with good RP than someone who just got elected and decided to keep the title.

If people are frustrated that they don't feel 'involved', don't neglect passing offers to work together. Enoch met Jonsu while she was ferreting around Bowie, and kept in contact. I remember probing other characters for intrigue, but some of them came off as unapproachable (or unresponsive) with such things. The backroom plots are exclusive once they really begin, but to actually start one all you need is a few partners.

[De-Legro]

I have to say that it's very fun, but I wonder if there -is- a way to effectively counter Jonsu. Basically, the only one left who can actually go against her is the founder (who is gone). I see it as a problem for the religion system, since all it takes is for one Elder to seize control and effectively be untouchable. Maybe there should be a mechanic (heh, schisms, please!) in place so that things like this don't become a sort of "game over" situation -- right now, people within SA can harp on all they like, but there is no viable way to regain control of the religion.

And one of the fun things about SA is the structure. Jonsu may be rendered useless if people just ignore her... but that defeats "fun", and fun is what this should be.

RE: keeping their traps shut and plotting the downfall:

How, exactly? Am I missing a mechanic in place that allows for the removal of an Elder and countering a hostile takeover of a church?

Nope, nor does infil actions remove her from her position. Sort of someone managing to execute her there is little to do to force her out of the position.

[Vellos]

I have no problem with intrigue and feuding.

I have a problem with the fact that anyone with half a brain can realize this is NOT intended function.

Edited to remove material contravening the Social Contract.