Sanguis Astroism

[pcw27]

Actually I think it's quite the opposite. There are other possible diversions the church could get involved in. The thing is this one pretty much obligates them to intervene. The charter directly calls for the church to defend its theocracies (and by extension soon to be theocracies). For once the church doesn't have a sufficient excuse to not get involved.

My hope is that this particular crusade will create a split in the church. People will reject it and get excommunicated, then together they'll form what you might call a Protestant Sanguis Astroism.

[Kwanstein]

Just took a look at the diplomacy page, saw that you are bluffing. No other wars in the North, while the South isn't of concern in a realpolitik sense. I realise that some Northern realms are trying to start something, but it is hasn't started yet and so isn't a certifiable diversion.

If there were anything at all of note, calling a crusade over a couple of flea-ridden realms would be a waste of effort. But, as it is, there is little demand on effort and without demand it holds little value and that of little value can be spent frivolously to anyone's content.

[Chenier]

Incorrect, the crusade isn't against anyone it's in defense of Terran so we'll end up fighting who ever comes for them. I've got my fingers crossed that Aurvandil will get involved.

Yea, remember when another supowerpower (Zuma) came in to stop a conflict. Hireshmont LOVED that, right? He's totally not doing the same thing he cried out against now, right?

[Indirik]

The level of response is akin to swatting a fly with a mace. If anything this demonstrates that the Church has nothing better to do

Believe it or not, I totally agree with you. The Crusade is ridiculous.

[cenrae]

This crusade just proves that you are either with the church or not and that SA will prevent any SA Realm from having conflict with another (as seen when FR sent troops to Swordfell).

[Indirik]

I totally don't get the alleged connection.

Phantaria is not SA. So how does stopping a war between Terran and Phantaria equate to preventing an SA realm from having a conflict with another SA realm?

Swordfell is not an SA realm. (And FR is not a theocracy, either.) So, again, how does stopping FR from attacking Swordfell equate to preventing an SA realm from having a conflict with another SA realm.

The matter of FR/Swordfell had absolutely nothing to with preventing a conflict between realms, as has been explained time and again, ad nauseum...

[Geronus]

If you don't want the Church interfering in your affairs, then join it and get yourself some influence. That's what Hireshmont did, and that's why all of a sudden there's a Crusade to defend Terran. It is unwise to interfere with realms that have a strong SA presence without having a countervailing presence of your own to provide you with eyes, ears and influence. It's not like it's hard to get in.

[Indirik]

We're so exclusive that only 1/3rd of all characters on the island have managed to get in.

[Velax]

It is unwise to interfere with realms that have a strong SA presence

How strong could the presence be? A maximum of 5 nobles.

[Gustav Kuriga]

I think it's loltastic that the Church feels it needs to protect a realm against another realm that has an ASTROIST as its Marshal and an ASTROIST as the Vice-Marshal as well.

[Kwanstein]

The Crusade isn't bad because it's unfair to Phantaria (life's unfair deal with it), but because it's an all around ridiculous idea. Defending Terran could be done by sending two nobles to sit in Chateau Saffalore until judgement day. Even without interference Phantaria would have a difficult time scaling Terran's walls.

What this Crusade shows is that the people implementing it attach no value to the concept. It is not a mighty weapon to be wielded against foes of great strength (Aurvandil) or even villains of mediocre merit (Asylon), no, it is a blunt instrument to be brought down upon any weakling realm that gives a dirty look. It's laughable.

But that is not the only negative aspect of this event. Another would be that it demonstrates how futile it is for non-SA realms to interact with SA realms. If they do, they get squashed. Sounds like a good position for SA to be in from a Darwinian view, but in terms of entertainment it leaves something to be desired. It would of course be ideal for SA if they had a host of legitimate threats surrounding them to occupy their interests', as not only would it provide warfare for it's cobweb covered legions, but it would also provide added seriousness for their internal diplomacy, so that they wouldn't have to indulge themselves by declaring crusades on realms with two functional regions every so often.

[Indirik]

... it demonstrates how futile it is for non-SA realms to interact with SA realms.

If by "interact with" you mean "destroy". then yes, that's exactly what it demonstrates.

[pcw27]

Just took a look at the diplomacy page, saw that you are bluffing. No other wars in the North, while the South isn't of concern in a realpolitik sense. I realise that some Northern realms are trying to start something, but it is hasn't started yet and so isn't a certifiable diversion.

If there were anything at all of note, calling a crusade over a couple of flea-ridden realms would be a waste of effort. But, as it is, there is little demand on effort and without demand it holds little value and that of little value can be spent frivolously to anyone's content.

By diversion I didn't mean an active war. Why doesn't the Farronite Republic start something with Asylon? Or Morek with Libero. Hell maybe Niselur and Morek could get in a fight over the rights to keep Libero as a vassal. These are all viable options but no one wants to take the risk so they decide to play as level headed wise leaders rather then the greedy power mad megalomaniacs that really ran the medieval world.

They're not getting involved with Terran cause they're out of ideas, they're getting involved with Terran because for once they're oath bound to do so plus it's pretty safe.

By the way while Phantaria is the main realm involved is by no means the only opponent to Terran. Asylon was involved briefly and may get involved again, Saffalore actually sent troops and Aurvandil is still technically at war with Terran.

Like I said, very WWI.

[Perth]

I think it's loltastic that the Church feels it needs to protect a realm against another realm that has an ASTROIST as its Marshal and an ASTROIST as the Vice-Marshal as well.

This was my frustration with it and why I think it is such a joke. It is just so blatant now that Crusades have nothing to do with the vitality of Sanguis Astroism, but rather the Elders protecting their political friends. Astroism was under absolutely no threat whatsoever. I literally cannot think of a more secular war that Phantaria could wage upon Terran, and I cannot think of a more SA friendly ruler and realm than Kale and Phantaria (well, at least before this debacle anyways).

Like I said, very WWI.

If the result of WW1 was for the conflict to fizzle out, then sure.

[pcw27]

This was my frustration with it and why I think it is such a joke. It is just so blatant now that Crusades have nothing to do with the vitality of Sanguis Astroism, but rather the Elders protecting their political friends. Astroism was under absolutely no threat whatsoever. I literally cannot think of a more secular war that Phantaria could wage upon Terran, and I cannot think of a more SA friendly ruler and realm than Kale and Phantaria (well, at least before this debacle anyways).

Because it's reforming to a theocracy and the charter obligates the church to defend theocracies. These kind of obligations were a big part of medieval society and they frequently came into conflict. That's what a lot of Arthurian stories are all about, the clash between different Chivalric values and oaths.

If the result of WW1 was for the conflict to fizzle out, then sure.

Have you tried getting Asylon and Aurvandil involved?