Feature Cut: Region Loyalty

[Tom]

This is a huge system that has been in the game for a very long time. It was added when regions switched hands rapidly, to make people consider holding them longer. It was also added to dissuade looting back when that was rampant. Both problems that we don't have anymore.

But my main interest in considering to remove it is not so much the complexity as that it doesn't fit to the vision of the game I have anymore. I would like to move closer to a "the peasants don't really care that much about which flag flies over the castle" vision. If the peasants have an opinion, it should be much more localized - they might like their lord or not. But I don't see why the peasants should care about realms.

[Kain]

I agree. Remove it :)

[Anaris]

My first reaction is "Yeep! That's gonna screw up SO MUCH STUFF!"

My second thought is, "Hm. He makes some good points."

My third is, "But it's still gonna screw up SO MUCH STUFF!"

I don't think we should do this immediately, because it will require totally rebalancing 3/4 of the game or more.  However, I think it's worth discussing replacing realm loyalty with loyalty to individuals.

[Perth]

However, I think it's worth discussing replacing realm loyalty with loyalty to individuals.

This could be very cool.

[Sacha]

So basically instead of 'Loyalty - Keplerstan' it would change to 'Loyalty - Lord Kepler'? I could go for that.

[Tom]

I'm not sure it would screw up so much. It seems that it deters a lot of actions, but it doesn't really add all that much. The two main effects it appears to have is that most realms have outlawed looting and that after the inevitable brutal takeover, a couple players are stuck in the region for a week or two to fix it up.

[Tom]

So basically instead of 'Loyalty - Keplerstan' it would change to 'Loyalty - Lord Kepler'? I could go for that.

No, that is an idea thrown in. The question I want feedback on is whether or not removing it would be a good idea. Any and all potential future improvements are exactly that: Potential and future.

[Darksun]

Why stop with Loyalty? Why not axe morale too? Can't all these just be rolled into "Control" without the needless complication of other percentages?

[Tom]

@Darksun: The whole region maintainance thing could be reworked, but I'm not looking for more work just now. And for technical reasons, removing Morale would not save much work, but removing Loyalty does.

[egamma]

I'm not sure it would screw up so much. It seems that it deters a lot of actions, but it doesn't really add all that much. The two main effects it appears to have is that most realms have outlawed looting and that after the inevitable brutal takeover, a couple players are stuck in the region for a week or two to fix it up.

Removing loyalty will reduce the time needed to take over multiple regions. That's a good thing if you're defending--and a bad thing if you're attacking. If you want to encourage realms to go on the offensive, then removing loyalty would probably help.

What is removing this going to do to the takeover types and court types (just court in particular)?

[Indirik]

This is a huge system that has been in the game for a very long time. It was added when regions switched hands rapidly, to make people consider holding them longer. It was also added to dissuade looting back when that was rampant. Both problems that we don't have anymore.

Yes, looting in a lot of places was made illegal. But now, for anyone fighting a serious war, looting regions to death has become the standard, because realms know they can't take the land.

The New Estate system will help remove this, and hopefully bring back more conquering of land, rather than just destruction of enemy resources. IMO, removing Loyalty will remove the major incentive to /not/ loot regions while you BTO them. After all, it will make the BTO go faster, won't hurt your realm much at all, and you wont' have to leave anyone behind to rebuild it when you're done.

I'm not sure about this one. I think I agree with Tim, and that this might be too much, too fast.

[fodder]

loyalty is part of the ambassador game right now... what takes its place?

[Bedwyr]

Huh.  I can see it simplifying stuff...And it would make taking regions a lot easier, which would be handy...Would everything controlled by loyalty right now just become...Possible?

How would the different TO types work?  And if there isn't something about personal loyalty implemented, then...

I think this just makes my head hurt, and I can't figure out how it'll change things without knowing more.

[Telrunya]

Not so comfortable with this one. It seems like such a major component of the region maintenance part. The New Estate System should already makes things a bit easier, I think. Also, and this may be biased, but I see a lot of Looting going on already, so I don't see any problems there that need to be rebalanced. I think this is taking a step back, not streamlining the game. I like the ideas of peasants caring differently, and that sounds like it could be a good improvement, but then the Loyalty system (and other related things) should be reworked in a new system, but that's obviously not an option right now. My reservations with this is, I guess, that I'm afraid it takes away from the game. So I would really want to keep Loyalty.

[Zakilevo]

I agree with the logic of peasants not caring about which realm they are in. They would have been more concerned about their lords than the whole realm. Maybe get rid of loyalty for now and once things get cleaned up, add loyalty for a specific noble?