BM culture

[Indirik]

Ummm, we did this for the 4th invasion. While a vocal minority like myself were quite pleased with it, the overwhelming response was not kind. I haven't seen the feedback stats, but I have a feeling it would be a rather small niche island.

The fourth invasion was, probably, a poor way to test the idea. I believe that pretty much all of the mass killings happened when fighting against the monster faction. Were there any records of two or three nobles dying in a single battle when fighting against other humans? Or when fighting the undead or daimons? From what I saw from afar (not having a character on BT for the invasion) the problem was the battle mechanics of the monsters that gave universal mortality the bad experience that it was. I would still really like to see a normal island with universal mortality.

[Indirik]

Invaders could wipe out the entire Moot, and still have the Astroist realms kind of shrug and go "whatever."

Well... we wouldn't do that, would we?

Of course, there's really not much we could do about it, I think. It's not liek we could march a 30,000 CS army all the way down to Barca.

[Anaris]

Well... we wouldn't do that, would we?

Of course, there's really not much we could do about it, I think. It's not liek we could march a 30,000 CS army all the way down to Barca.

And even if you could, what on earth good do you think 30,000 CS would do against the full force of a Daimon invasion?

Especially 30,000 CS that has to turn around and go home after the first battle, victory or defeat...

[De-Legro]

And even if you could, what on earth good do you think 30,000 CS would do against the full force of a Daimon invasion?

Especially 30,000 CS that has to turn around and go home after the first battle, victory or defeat...

Entertain the Diamons? oh and provide food for the breeding grounds.

[Indirik]

All of which was really kinda my point. Even if we had 30,000 CS to send, we couldn't. And even if we could, and assuming we *wanted* to save the moot (which most of us don't even know exists (well, some of us know of it, but mostly just as a name)) what we could send would be mostly useless.

It would be a fairly uneventful Invasion, so far as we have come to know them.

[Solari]

When Dwilight finally happened it felt like all the most ambitious players of BattleMaster got together and started measuring dick's against one another. Too much testosterone flying around for what was really a massive gold rush.

lol'in hard because it's true

[Vellos]

I agree, we may need to have to establish a new rule: You cheat, you lose. All of you. The entire clan.


Basically, what I'd do is support guild-like structures on the player level. Let players join a clan, openly. Let the clan do whatever it wants. But if any of its members is caught multi-cheating but once, the entire clan gets dishonoured and permanently flagged.

That might result in the opposite: Clans being strong defenders of our anti-cheating policies.

Or, someone with a scheming and vindictive personality (like me?) would come along, and get into a rivalry with a clan... and create a multi in the enemy clan, separate it with some IP proxies and whatnot, create some multis associated with it, and then let it get "discovered." And get the whole enemy clan punished, thereby gaining an advantage for the ACTUAL clan.

Even if you said "clans reporting themselves will not be punished," you could manipulate it to make sure that your clan uncovered the multi-ing first.

[Tom]

Or, someone with a scheming and vindictive personality (like me?) would come along, and get into a rivalry with a clan... and create a multi in the enemy clan, separate it with some IP proxies and whatnot, create some multis associated with it, and then let it get "discovered." And get the whole enemy clan punished, thereby gaining an advantage for the ACTUAL clan.

And you bet the house on me not finding you out, because everyone here knows, and it's written somewhere on the wiki that the harshest punishments are reserved for those gaming the system. So if I find that out, I'll not only remove the dishonour badge from the other clan, I'll also do something like delete every account of everyone in your real clan.

And don't get me started on trying to abuse that...

[egamma]

Or, someone with a scheming and vindictive personality (like me?) would come along, and get into a rivalry with a clan... and create a multi in the enemy clan, separate it with some IP proxies and whatnot, create some multis associated with it, and then let it get "discovered." And get the whole enemy clan punished, thereby gaining an advantage for the ACTUAL clan.

Even if you said "clans reporting themselves will not be punished," you could manipulate it to make sure that your clan uncovered the multi-ing first.

One problem with your evil plot--the clans we're talking about typically come from another gaming site, they all know each other, and won't accept you into their group. In fact, that's been the historical reasoning against allowing clans into BM. So they would likely kick your characters out themselves--this is a side affect of the policing Tom was talking about.

[Chenier]

Ummm, we did this for the 4th invasion. While a vocal minority like myself were quite pleased with it, the overwhelming response was not kind. I haven't seen the feedback stats, but I have a feeling it would be a rather small niche island.

I think the concensus was that while it may be cool for a new continent that opens up, it should not be imposed on established continents.

You might have enjoyed it, but I consider those events to have the source of a significant decline in interest and activity. Due to how the factions work in combat, the monsters were the ones who tended to cause more mortality, and a sizable chunk of Enweil died within a very limited time frame. It didn't create opportunities, it just created a rotting core. Bitterness and nostalgia. In a light-weight game that focuses on player interactions and RP relations that tend to take time to establish, to forcefully cut out entities that are core elements of this network (characters) is, imo, counter-productive.

There's also a ton of reasons why I don't think it's overall a good idea.

Which is why, mostly, if it were to come to be, it should be somewhere where everyone agrees to it, i.e. a new continent or a reseted one.

[Chenier]

The fourth invasion was, probably, a poor way to test the idea. I believe that pretty much all of the mass killings happened when fighting against the monster faction. Were there any records of two or three nobles dying in a single battle when fighting against other humans? Or when fighting the undead or daimons? From what I saw from afar (not having a character on BT for the invasion) the problem was the battle mechanics of the monsters that gave universal mortality the bad experience that it was. I would still really like to see a normal island with universal mortality.

Daimons were almost all (or were all, not sure) ranged fighters in the fourth invasion, they seemed to lack the deadly chargers of the third invasion. Archers in combat tend to wound a hell of a lot more than they kill, which is what happened. A few did die, though. Undead are the opposite of monsters: they hit weaker but don't retreat. The way people understand wounding and mortality to work is rather simple: the more damage you get in one round, the more likely your char is to be wounded or killed. As such, monsters were much more likely to kill than the undead and daimons were. The odds of death were eventually tweaked, but then again death was still frequent against the monsters, so it ended up being removed. People did die all over, but very few against non-monsters. I think the monsters killed like 3 times as many nobles as both others combined. I know in Wheling, I think it is, we've got the Imperial Crypt where the name of all the dead are noted in the region description. It's a pretty long list.

[BardicNerd]

I claim that you are claiming this out of ignorance of the lore on AT and EC. When I say vanilla, I mean vanilla game mechanics. AT, EC, and Far East have normal game mechanics. That doesn't mean that every single realm on those islands are exact clones of each other. They all have different cultures and traditions. They all add intrinsic value to BM. That's a lot more valuable than "gimmicks".

FEI actually has slightly different game mechanics, as it has seasons.  And this actually does affect things at least somewhat, at least in Zonasa.

[Vellos]

And don't get me started on trying to abuse that...

Which would be easy...

[Dante Silverfire]

Which would be easy...

I think the point that Vellos is trying to make is that inviting any "easing" of the rules which we play this game by will likely have drastic consequences which will be hard to control, so it isn't really worth it. I am in agreement on this point because allowing in OOC clans will just ruin the entirety of the game unless we intend to create a new "War Islands" which is essentially what is being proposed and I thought you were against Tom. If we invite an OOC clan or two to join here, then they will simply treat it like a war island and try to conquer everyone. Why not?

It's not a good idea if the goal is player retention imo. If the goal is a social experiment, then sure it is fine, but it will have adverse effects and the new "rules" will be easier to exploit than the blanket rules we have now.

[egamma]

I think the point that Vellos is trying to make is that inviting any "easing" of the rules which we play this game by will likely have drastic consequences which will be hard to control, so it isn't really worth it. I am in agreement on this point because allowing in OOC clans will just ruin the entirety of the game unless we intend to create a new "War Islands" which is essentially what is being proposed and I thought you were against Tom. If we invite an OOC clan or two to join here, then they will simply treat it like a war island and try to conquer everyone. Why not?

It's not a good idea if the goal is player retention imo. If the goal is a social experiment, then sure it is fine, but it will have adverse effects and the new "rules" will be easier to exploit than the blanket rules we have now.

OOC clans are allowed, as long as they follow the rules