Dwilight losing its saltiness?

[egamma]

Not bad. So to be determined:
Do the Zuma have to recruit in their capital (which I think is Nightscree), or can they recruit in any of their regions, or can they recruit anywhere on Dwilight?
Are there 'portals' of some sort that the Daimons come through from the Netherworld, and if so, can they be closed or destroyed, like recruiting centers?

[De-Legro]

Some speculation based on what Juan saw in the Zuma lands back in 2008-2009.

1) The Zuma insist there troops are human. This might be purely a RP thing or it might affect game mechanics
2) Zuma regions suck in population and production
3) I never saw any RC's

This would imply to me that they don't need to recruit in the capital, or if they do it is not through the normal RC system. The lack of RC's and the fact that even if they existed they wouldn't recruit men pretty much rules them out in my mind. I've never heard of them recruiting outside of their realm, but then they don't often travel outside of the realm.

[Vellos]

Not bad for stating the obvious.

Daimons have a resource value limiting their spawn? Amazing. I bet you could even come to the shockingly inventive conclusion that daimons only exist as units raised by daimon leaders, either as militia or mobile. What a revolutionary conclusion. That helps SO MUCH. It's nice to know that somewhere in the game's programming there is programming that covers daimon recruitment. I would not have guessed such a thing Artemesia, thank you.

/sarcasm

This isn't useful information. Useful information would be something like, "Daimons recruit more easily in townslands" or "Daimons can convert peasants to soldiers at a rate of X" or "Unique items give Daimons an advantage in stat X" or "Daimonic recruitment declines as distance from capital increases" or something like that.

egamma's questions are good ones. What with FangFang's march north, I am very curious about daimonic movement now. De-Legro's comments about RCs and stats are accurate, though population has risen since then. The comment regarding human warriors is outdated; I haven't heard them make any insistences to that effect recently, and some RPs seemed clearly to be able daimon warriors. Under Vates, the Zuma were more like daimonic nobility ruling the barbarian Zuma. Under Haktoo they've changed significantly.

[De-Legro]

Not bad for stating the obvious.

Daimons have a resource value limiting their spawn? Amazing. I bet you could even come to the shockingly inventive conclusion that daimons only exist as units raised by daimon leaders, either as militia or mobile. What a revolutionary conclusion. That helps SO MUCH. It's nice to know that somewhere in the game's programming there is programming that covers daimon recruitment. I would not have guessed such a thing Artemesia, thank you.

/sarcasm

This isn't useful information. Useful information would be something like, "Daimons recruit more easily in townslands" or "Daimons can convert peasants to soldiers at a rate of X" or "Unique items give Daimons an advantage in stat X" or "Daimonic recruitment declines as distance from capital increases" or something like that.

egamma's questions are good ones. What with FangFang's march north, I am very curious about daimonic movement now. De-Legro's comments about RCs and stats are accurate, though population has risen since then. The comment regarding human warriors is outdated; I haven't heard them make any insistences to that effect recently, and some RPs seemed clearly to be able daimon warriors. Under Vates, the Zuma were more like daimonic nobility ruling the barbarian Zuma. Under Haktoo they've changed significantly.

Information on that level has never been revealed for an invasion, the chances of it being revealed for the Zuma are slight. You might be able to get the Zuma ingame to reveal such things, I have no idea what the guidelines for the GM say in that regard. the GM behind Haktoo has been with the Zuma from the start, there might be some diamons within the forces, but in general the Zuma remain as they always have, Daimon overlords of a human realm. What I don't know is if the "human" troops is entirely RP thing or if it is supported by game mechanics. The CS of the troops suggest if they are "human" within the game, then they are damn good SF.

[songqu88@gmail.com]

Not bad for stating the obvious.

Daimons have a resource value limiting their spawn? Amazing. I bet you could even come to the shockingly inventive conclusion that daimons only exist as units raised by daimon leaders, either as militia or mobile. What a revolutionary conclusion. That helps SO MUCH. It's nice to know that somewhere in the game's programming there is programming that covers daimon recruitment. I would not have guessed such a thing Artemesia, thank you.

/sarcasm

This isn't useful information. Useful information would be something like, "Daimons recruit more easily in townslands" or "Daimons can convert peasants to soldiers at a rate of X" or "Unique items give Daimons an advantage in stat X" or "Daimonic recruitment declines as distance from capital increases" or something like that.

egamma's questions are good ones. What with FangFang's march north, I am very curious about daimonic movement now. De-Legro's comments about RCs and stats are accurate, though population has risen since then. The comment regarding human warriors is outdated; I haven't heard them make any insistences to that effect recently, and some RPs seemed clearly to be able daimon warriors. Under Vates, the Zuma were more like daimonic nobility ruling the barbarian Zuma. Under Haktoo they've changed significantly.

Goddamn, man, what I did was much better than you going off bitching about the Zuma. If it was so obvious why were people still confused about some of the very things I managed to explain?

Really? Everyone knew that the daimons had some resource that they take from? Did you really know that there was a cap? Because you know...In some cases in the past, there were special powers apparently granted where there was no such thing. That's pretty much why before the 4th Invasion you saw a huge bigass unit that roflstomped a !@#$ton.

But more importantly, you're showing how much more arrogant and self-absorbed you are than me.

I don't presume to think that what I said was obvious. I decided to share what I discovered, knowing that I'm not the smartest player out there, but still brave enough to share the little I knew knowing that I might show how ignorant I am.

You come back with your nice little sarcasm, presuming to speak for everyone by saying how obvious it is. Did you care that some people really might not have known this because they didn't really think about it? Most people probably don't think about game mechanics like NPC rules because it really doesn't affect them. But some of them might get curious once they know they exist, and so I was trying to help them out.

So here's my dose of sarcasm mode for you, Mr. Vellos.

<sarcasm>

You certainly display the poise of an excellent player who chooses not to lower himself to the level of his opponents. You admirably show that you can hold yourself above your base emotions, and can remain civil despite how those around you become less than civil. You are a prime example of how a player should act on the forums.

</sarcasm>

[Vellos]

It's a tautology, Artemesia. If the daimons exist IG, they must have a resource somewhere in the game to represent them. Things in the game interface we observe don't exist independently. They are the programming and the programming is them. Saying, "They come from regions" is also fairly obvious; especially given the observable mechanics and things said during the current invasion on Beluaterra.

Sure, some players who have never interacted with the Zuma or any daimons on any significant level might not know these things and might not be able to get them IG.

That also probably means they live off in the wild blue yonder far from the daimons. Anybody who lives near them has been somewhat significantly motivated to consider these things. If they haven't gotten to the conclusion that, yes, daimons are separate in-game units, then seriously, they must not look at scout reports. I was sarcastic because your rather detailed and long-winded explanation, as far as I could tell, amounted to about as much as was figured out in the first 30 minutes of the Fourth Invasion. And, strangely enough... humanity didn't really win that Invasion.

I'm fine with Beluaterra being sunk; it's the Invasion island, whatever. Dwilight has never been advertised that way. I'd rather prefer not to have the same fate happen to it, which means having information of strategic relevance.

Information on that level has never been revealed for an invasion, the chances of it being revealed for the Zuma are slight. You might be able to get the Zuma ingame to reveal such things, I have no idea what the guidelines for the GM say in that regard. the GM behind Haktoo has been with the Zuma from the start, there might be some diamons within the forces, but in general the Zuma remain as they always have, Daimon overlords of a human realm. What I don't know is if the "human" troops is entirely RP thing or if it is supported by game mechanics. The CS of the troops suggest if they are "human" within the game, then they are damn good SF.

I'm not asking for the GM to reveal it; sorry if it came out that way. I understand GMs have limitations; absolutely. I don't want them to break their rules.

Rather, as the Zuma allow people to live among them or near them to some degree, I was hoping that better intel might be available from normal observation. Barca may have battle reports from the Zuma that could speak to their troops. FangFang's march north seems to me to indicate that they can recruit anywhere, as they do not appear to have moved a unit through Terran's land. But, again, that whole situation is very odd. The question about details on the type of troops would be interesting, but I'm pretty sure they're just coded the exact same as the Beluaterra daimons.

In fact, the appearance of the mega-horde on Beluaterra reinforces the idea that the Zuma are coded similarly: if we presume the Blight has similar wastelandish and netherworldian recruitment as the Zuma Coalition, then we can realize the extent of the Fifth Invasion. The Zuma support sometimes as much as 60-70k CS (or at least it looks that way) from their small area. We know that Overlord can field 130k... but if the Blight can recruit like the Zuma Coalition.... it could be many, many times that much.

Or maybe daimon recruitment is finite. Maybe it doesn't regenerate. We don't know that it does. Non-regenerating recruitment would fit much of the Fourth Invasion's phenomena.

But we don't know, ultimately. Those are the questions that would merit really serious discussion.

[Indirik]

FangFang's march north seems to me to indicate that they can recruit anywhere, as they do not appear to have moved a unit through Terran's land. But, again, that whole situation is very odd. The question about details on the type of troops would be interesting, but I'm pretty sure they're just coded the exact same as the Beluaterra daimons.

FWIW - The Zuma GM has asked that this situation be clarified:
FangFang (who has now been renamed to "Fang Fang") traveled this path: Overroot > Shoka > Inklen > Lowervia (which was still rogue at the time), and had his entire 8,000 CS force with him the entire time. Yes, he traveled through two Terran regions with 8,000 CS of daimon troops without anyone seeing him. No, this is not a special daimon ability. Apparently no one looked at those regions during the time period when the daimon troops were there.

Also, this is OOC knowledge. Since no one noticed them travel through, then no one really knows *how* they traveled through.

[songqu88@gmail.com]

Well, technically...Garret does know because from what I understand, tracking movements via the character screen is still legit IC knowledge.

No one brought it up in-game though. The first time I heard anyone say anything about Dwilight daimons flying/teleporting was on the forums.

[MaleMaldives]

FWIW - The Zuma GM has asked that this situation be clarified:
FangFang (who has now been renamed to "Fang Fang") traveled this path: Overroot > Shoka > Inklen > Lowervia (which was still rogue at the time), and had his entire 8,000 CS force with him the entire time. Yes, he traveled through two Terran regions with 8,000 CS of daimon troops without anyone seeing him. No, this is not a special daimon ability. Apparently no one looked at those regions during the time period when the daimon troops were there.

Also, this is OOC knowledge. Since no one noticed them travel through, then no one really knows *how* they traveled through.

If he traveled through Vassar about 15 days ago, then my character, Tampico, saw him I think. The name sounds really familiar, and I remember I had some glitched battles against monsters where my MI has infinite range where Fang Fang was neutral. Not positive, and to far back for any reports.

[songqu88@gmail.com]

It was during Christmas. People were probably doing more important real life stuff (Btw, not sarcastic. Real life really is > BM.)

[MaleMaldives]

Well the Zuma only attacked Vassar where Tampico was the Lord of. So he was back there repairing it when I think Fang Fang came. I just still thought it was part of the whole Zuma/Terran ordeal that had been going on, so I didn't think to bring it up.

[egamma]

FWIW - The Zuma GM has asked that this situation be clarified:
FangFang (who has now been renamed to "Fang Fang") traveled this path: Overroot > Shoka > Inklen > Lowervia (which was still rogue at the time), and had his entire 8,000 CS force with him the entire time. Yes, he traveled through two Terran regions with 8,000 CS of daimon troops without anyone seeing him. No, this is not a special daimon ability. Apparently no one looked at those regions during the time period when the daimon troops were there.

Also, this is OOC knowledge. Since no one noticed them travel through, then no one really knows *how* they traveled through.

I just assumed that the Terrans just kept quiet about the matter.

[Indirik]

Slight revision to FangFang's itinerary. He actually went: Vassar (where FangFang watched Tampico fight the monsters, twice) > Shoka > Inklen (fought a battle there by itself against a monster pack) > Barrow Peaks.

ZumaGM apologizes for the prior error. MaleMaldives' post jogged their memory, prompting them to go back and check their messages. Regardless, there was no teleporting or flying of rivers, and FangFang still had his whole 8K CS daimon unit the entire time.

Surprising that no one spotted FangFang until he made it to Shuberstone.

[Glaumring the Fox]

He was spotted in Barrowspeak by Asylon scouts and tracked northward.

[Indirik]

... and you didn't say anything until he reached Shuberstone?!

Face, meet Palm. Palm, this is Face.