Poll

Do you enjoy having the Zuma/Daimons on Dwilight?

Yes, I love them.
No, I hate them.
I'm not sure.
I don't know anything about them.

Author Topic: Zuma/Daimons  (Read 172111 times)

De-Legro

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Re: Zuma/Daimons
« Reply #30: January 08, 2012, 03:15:27 AM »
I believe they should be like us, if they want to play on Dwilight they should be like an aboriginal populace that through either our or their actions survive. They should play by the same rules. So far I see the Zuma as the nuclear option and they have totally changed the nature and balance of Dwilight. From this day forward the human kingdoms cannot afford to fight eachother, our best chance is to meld into massive stagnant powerblocs, because god forbid the GM's with unlimited power destroy everything we as players have worked hard for.

The Zuma have been here for YEARS. There is no sudden need to act differently.

Also the GM's don't and have never had unlimited powers. They have game mechanics that control how they can recruit, how much they can recruit and the like. The rules are different, that leads to different strengths and weakness. Besides which, other players can destroy everything you have worked so hard for, look at Caerwyn, it doesn't take a GM.

I don't like the Zuma. Dwilight was not advertised as an island with NPC presence, a la Beluaterra, so their presence can correctly be said to be a surprise that was sprung on the players without their input or any chance to decline their presence ahead of time.

The essence of Vellos' argument should not be construed as an attack on the Zuma GM. The essence of the argument is that the very presence of an NPC faction of unknowable and quite possibly (effectively) unlimited power does by it's very nature warp the player to player interaction that would otherwise be taking place and that, normally, forms the essence of Battlemaster. Like a black hole, their existence is a plot sink. All other plots in its vicinity are inexorably drawn to it. You can't really afford to ignore them, because maybe somebody else won't. Your every action must be carefully considered in light of what effect it might have on the Zuma. Your every plan must take into account what might happen if the Zuma suddenly wake up and decide to interfere with you. The argument that the Zuma respond only to player stimulus doesn't matter, because even if you assiduously avoid provoking them, you must always take into account the possibility that your human opponents may not, that they may even contrive to send the Zuma against you, just like Terrence did, and he is only one of several examples of this happening. The very power of the Zuma (and their incredible penchant for immediately overreacting to even unproven allegations) begs them to be manipulated by daring, reckless, or otherwise overconfident players, and therefore provides a sort of publicly available nuclear option for anyone desperate or crazy enough to not mind the risk of provoking them for the chance that they'll take someone (or something) out.


Arguably there mere existence means they are MEANT to change what you consider the "essence" of BM. After all this is Dwilight, the whole island was created to be something other then the standard BM game. The fact that the Zuma are player driven is entirely relevant. Terrance has been able to have the effect he has, because the realms surrounding the Zuma have never managed to build a relationship with them that would have prevented it.

So many people are so scared of offending them, that you all leave yourselves open to someone willing to risk it all. Would the Zuma have acted as they did if they had an established relationship with Terran that would have given them pause in believing Terrance's forgery? No single players interaction with the Zuma happens in isolation.

Has anyone really stopped to think that maybe in Toms plans, the Zuma ARE Dwilight and form a integral part of its existence? Perhaps you were never meant to have the option to decline them, its not like you get to pick and choose every aspect of this game.
Previously of the De-Legro Family
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