Rework the Vulgarity flag feature

[songqu88@gmail.com]

H/P loss hardly matters if you make a character specifically to do just that: Send out untraceable leaked information out there. No guarantee it'll be useful, but a very high chance that it'll mess around with your realm's happy poo poo.

On the other hand, I can't seem to get my honor to 0 so I can be an outlaw without ever being an infiltrator. I mean, I play a goddamn cussing monkey on Colonies. You'd think every message would be flagged (They have been I think). Yet I'm still nowhere close >_<

[Bedwyr]

No, not at all. I thought of it when I received an extremely sensitive military message one time on Beluaterra that was not vulgar in the slightest; and it suddenly clicked for me: somebody was ahead of the game on how to undermine their realm. It's completely untraceable and, even if somebody did pin it to you, as long as you can fabricate some story about your honor being offended or something, it won't be immediately assumed your a saboteur.

It's clearly IC information on both ends. And, it's a fair tradeoff: I can leak invulnerably, but I get no control over who receives, and I risk losing H/P if I do it too much. Basically, it's one tier of betrayal below simply spying, IMHO.

I literally have no words capable of expressing my feelings at this statement.

[Revan]

I just ran into a problem with the vulgarity flag feature. It reveals whole messages therefore if someone breached SMA on dwilight in a message of a sensitive nature flagging it would reveal that information to people who aren't supposed to know about it in character.

Skipping over the issue of people flagging vulgar messages purely out of spite, in the above example, surely the obvious solution is to not be vulgar? If you are vulgar, well, broadcasting your letter is the price you pay.

Really Vulgarity messages are IC? I've always treated them as OOC information. To me it was always a game mechanic asking for my opinion as a player, not as a character.

Ditto. I feel like I'm being asked to judge the people I'm playing with and I try to take it seriously. I'm sat there going 'Was there really any need to use a word like that?' or 'Oh, this guy has just gotten under someone's skin. There's nothing in it.' Though even if you take messages as IC, what are you really learning? Usually you're just getting a glimpse of some textbook intra-realm power struggle that's gotten a little heated. There's never any juice in it.

[bluexmas]

Using the vulgarity flag feature as an IC tool seems to me to be one of the clearest instances of OOC/IC abuse I have ever run  across. Shouldn't this just be marked as something that is clearly OOC?

[fodder]

in practical and cynical terms.. does it make a blind bit of difference? if they want to use it, they will...

[egamma]

Using the vulgarity flag feature as an IC tool seems to me to be one of the clearest instances of OOC/IC abuse I have ever run  across. Shouldn't this just be marked as something that is clearly OOC?

http://battlemaster.org/testing/MessageComplain.php?ID=3168982

Note that it says, several times, 'noble', and not 'player'. That indicates that it is IG/IC.

Hello? am I invisible? The message is clearly between one noble and another.

[Tom]

I've only skimmed this.

But it seems we need to add another voting option to "vulgar" and "not vulgar" - "abuse".

[Bedwyr]

I've only skimmed this.

But it seems we need to add another voting option to "vulgar" and "not vulgar" - "abuse".

Agreed.

[egamma]

Or, simply list the sender of the vulgarity report, on every report.

[De-Legro]

I just ran into a problem with the vulgarity flag feature. It reveals whole messages therefore if someone breached SMA on dwilight in a message of a sensitive nature flagging it would reveal that information to people who aren't supposed to know about it in character.

A SMA breach could also be handled by the titans.

[pcw27]

I think the simplest policy would be to rule that a vulgarity flag is not literal. No noble in their right mind would send sensitive letters to random people just because their peer cursed, however a noble would certainly inform others if someone was spewing vulgar statements.

The rule could simply be that the act of vulgarity is IC but any other information is not. Quite simply if you get a peer review you've just heard that the person in question said SOMETHING unbefitting a noble, but IC you don't know what.

[Indirik]

Such a thing is completely unenforceable.

I like the idea of an "Abuse" button on vulgarity reports. I know that probably half of the ones I've seen lately had absolutely nothing in them that could be considered vulgar, or even rude.

[Vellos]

I've only skimmed this.

But it seems we need to add another voting option to "vulgar" and "not vulgar" - "abuse".

Abuse referring to what?

It's an obviously IC tool. It says in its descriptions that it is IC. Nothing at all in it flags it as being anything other than a way to forward messages to a random set of respected nobles for the purpose of their judging it.

Hello? am I invisible? The message is clearly between one noble and another.

Indeed. Totally IC.

[Indirik]

It's an obviously IC tool. It says in its descriptions that it is IC. Nothing at all in it flags it as being anything other than a way to forward messages to a random set of respected nobles for the purpose of their judging it.

Wut? This last sentence on the vulgarity report page, the one that is emphasized by italics, tells you that flagging messages based on their content is a misuse of the system:

This is a tool to enforce proper roleplaying and keep the atmosphere and quality level of the game up. The focus is on the manner of speech, not its contents.

If you are flagging messages because of their content, then you are blatantly misusing the tool.

[Vellos]

I've never known how to interpret that, as the manner is the content.

That is, profanity is part of content. So I shouldn't flag based on profanity?

Alternatively: at least one of my characters (though not the one who has made most frequent use of the vulgarity feature) regards basically everyone around him as inherently inferior and vulgar. He reports the messages of people he dislikes, regardless of content or manners, because they are simply, of their very nature, honorless scum. No idea how frequently those messages have actually been ruled vulgar or not; my guess is they usually aren't. And my character has probably lost H/P over the issue.

Hm, now that I re-read it, the vulgarity page could use some re-work. The first two paragraphs are clearly all IC comments, never referencing players. The third paragraph is OOC. Could use more clarification.

Honestly, I never read the third paragraph until now. It's in italics at the end; that says "parenthetical clarification; not essential information" to me, but that's quite arbitrary.

However, upon actually reading it, yeah, reporting messages as a form of espionage would be abuse. I shall stop immediately. Though I certainly don't think it's abuse to report vulgarity just because a character personally annoys your character.