Rework the Vulgarity flag feature

[Vellos]

In typical style, you're nitpicking definitions in order to distract from the fact that you abused a game system to act as a spy with virtually no chance of any repercussions. I think that's one of the most disgusting things I've ever seen in this game. Were it in my power I'd permanently lock your account for that sort of bull!@#$, and rest assured I'll be doing my best to ensure no character of yours in the same realm as mine ever receives any information that could possibly be sensitive.

Well. Now that's what I'd call taking an OOC thing IC.

For the record:

I agree 100% that using the vulgarity feature to spread messages around instead of getting a judgement on vulgarity is a plain and obvious abuse.

And, for the record, after the issue was discussed, I agreed, and conceded that my earlier position was wrong.

The current (well, not current, but most recent) debate is not about that anymore, but about whether vulgarity refers to only a set of words/phrases (how I interpret the position of several others), or whether it encompasses a broader swathe of behavior. This then boils down to whether the vulgarity tool should primarily be seen as an OOC or and IC mechanism, and whether any reporting of vulgarity that is not immediately within the purview of the vulgarity function should be reported as abuse, or whether the current penalties are sufficient.

[Velax]

Well. Now that's what I'd call taking an OOC thing IC.

If someone is willing to abuse game mechanics to the degree to which you obviously are, I think I have a right to protect those realms I am a part of. Given your actions have officially been classified as abuse, I'd happily have you OOC banned from any realm where you took such an action or bring you up before the Magistrates.

[Vellos]

I think you're taking this slightly out of proportion.

[fodder]

If someone is willing to abuse game mechanics to the degree to which you obviously are, I think I have a right to protect those realms I am a part of. Given your actions have officially been classified as abuse, I'd happily have you OOC banned from any realm where you took such an action or bring you up before the Magistrates.

funny. how do you know which character he did it with?

[Indirik]

... or that he was the one that did it. Assuming you could even prove that it was done that way.

Also, it should be pointed out that Vellos has already admitted that his position was in error, and that he will no longer do this. It seems a bit irrational to now demand that his account be locked, and that his characters should now be OOC banned.

[Vellos]

Also, it should be pointed out that Vellos has already admitted that his position was in error, and that he will no longer do this. It seems a bit irrational to now demand that his account be locked, and that his characters should now be OOC banned.

Kind of what I was going for.

[Vellos]

Also, it should be pointed out that Vellos has already admitted that his position was in error, and that he will no longer do this. It seems a bit irrational to now demand that his account be locked, and that his characters should now be OOC banned.

And, also, it seems kind of like an ex post facto rule. Most nations restrict or prohibit such laws. The idea that I could be punished for an action that nobody had ever stated was abuse (and which I did not think was abuse at the time, as I "learned" how to do it after I observed others doing it) based on a rule made well after the action seems a bit unfair. I'm not going to do it going forward; and I would hardly say I have a track record of abuse.

[Velax]

funny. how do you know which character he did it with?

Funny. When did I say I knew which character it was?

... or that he was the one that did it. Assuming you could even prove that it was done that way.

Not difficult when he freely admitted to having done it often.

Also, it should be pointed out that Vellos has already admitted that his position was in error, and that he will no longer do this. It seems a bit irrational to now demand that his account be locked, and that his characters should now be OOC banned.

Yes, because in the real world, admitting you're wrong absolves you of any possible punishment for past actions. And no one ever lies about something they can continue to do with no chance whatsoever of ever being caught.

Anyway, I've alreay taken what actions I deem appropriate on this. Everyone else is free to make their own decisions on it. I certainly won't be trusting any characters of a player that has admitted and defended such "creative" interpretations of the rules in future.

[Indirik]

Funny. When did I say I knew which character it was?

You did. Right here:

...I'd happily have you OOC banned from any realm where you took such an action...

That kind of requires that you would know which one of his characters did it.

Yes, because in the real world, admitting you're wrong absolves you of any possible punishment for past actions.

In the real world, you won't be prosecuted for doing something that was not illegal when you did it. i.e. If a law is passed today making it illegal to wear a blue shirt, you won't be arrested for having worn one yesterday.

Vellos has stated that his viewpoint on the rule has changed, and that he won't do it anymore. What more do you want out of him? His account to be permanently banned because he made a mistake, admitted it, and stated that he won't do that anymore? Crap, I'm all for hammering people who knowingly break the rules and show no remorse, but I'm not that bloodthirsty.

And no one ever lies about something they can continue to do with no chance whatsoever of ever being caught.

So... pretty much everyone should be OOC banned because they could do this and never get caught. And no one would ever not use something to their advantage even if it's against the rules, so long as they know they won't get caught...

There's a huge difference between doing something when you think it's OK, and doing something when you know it's wrong but you also know you can't be caught doing it.

[Velax]

You did. Right here:
That kind of requires that you would know which one of his characters did it.

You will notice I said would happily do so. That kinda implies that it's not within my power. Because, you know, I don't know which character it was? Why on earth would I say I knew which character did it when I have no possible way of doing so? Jesus, what is it with forums and ridiculous nitpicking of every possible interpretation of a sentence?

And no one would ever not use something to their advantage even if it's against the rules, so long as they know they won't get caught...

What planet do you live on? Can I live there too?

So... pretty much everyone should be OOC banned because they could do this and never get caught.

No, but how about those that, you know, freely admitted to doing so?

There's a huge difference between doing something when you think it's OK, and doing something when you know it's wrong but you also know you can't be caught doing it.

Most of the other people in this thread managed to figure it out. You're honestly saying it's hard to work out that using a game mechanic in a manner very obviously not intended in order to do something that can potentially be severely damaging to a realm with zero risk of being caught is abuse? Really? Is your estimation of the intelligence of the people playing this game really that low?

[Indirik]

Most of the other people in this thread managed to figure it out. You're honestly saying it's hard to work out that using a game mechanic in a manner very obviously not intended in order to do something that can potentially be severely damaging to a realm with zero risk of being caught is abuse?

Lots of people have come up with all kinds of different interpretations of the rules. I can see how Vellos arrived at what he got, even if I don't personally agree with it. Nevertheless, he's changed his mind on the proper use of the feature, even before Tom spoke up regarding his intentions for the feature. So... let's move on, shall we?

As for the zero risk thing... He could have done the same, or worse, by just sending the messages to a foreign ruler/general/marshal/etc. It would have been even more damaging, because he would have a higher expectation of the information actually getting used, as opposed to just tossing it out into the ether and /hoping/ someone would get it and use it.

Is your estimation of the intelligence of the people playing this game really that low?

On the contrary, I think that the players of BattleMaster are, on the whole, a very intelligent group of people. But it is often those kinds of people that come up with these novel interpretations of the rules.

[Velax]

As for the zero risk thing... He could have done the same, or worse, by just sending the messages to a foreign ruler/general/marshal/etc. It would have been even more damaging, because he would have a higher expectation of the information actually getting used, as opposed to just tossing it out into the ether and /hoping/ someone would get it and use it.

Sorry, doesn't fly. He specifically stated he did it so he could be "a major leak" with "almost no risk" to himself, as it was "completely untraceable".

Lots of people have come up with all kinds of different interpretations of the rules. I can see how Vellos arrived at what he got, even if I don't personally agree with it. Nevertheless, he's changed his mind on the proper use of the feature, even before Tom spoke up regarding his intentions for the feature. So... let's move on, shall we?

For the record:

I agree 100% that using the vulgarity feature to spread messages around instead of getting a judgement on vulgarity is a plain and obvious abuse.

Plain and obvious.

[Indirik]

And since Tom read this thread and saw Vellos' post, if he thinks it's that bad he can lock Vellos' account any time he wants, sine he's the one that would be doing it if it was judged that bad. Since that hasn't happened yet, it should be plain and obvious that he doesn't think it is, and it won't be. It should also be plain and obvious that your ranting probably won't change his mind.

[Velax]

You can argue till you're blue in the face, or red as the case may be, but the creator of the game stated it was an obvious abuse. Not to mention a number of other people, both here and in game. No real way to argue or nitpick around that, is there, mate? That should be rather...plain and obvious.

[Anaris]

You can argue till you're blue in the face, or red as the case may be, but the creator of the game stated it was an obvious abuse. Not to mention a number of other people, both here and in game. No real way to argue or nitpick around that, is there, mate? That should be rather...plain and obvious.

Yes, Velax. We've all acknowledged that it's an abuse. No one is disputing that.

We're just disputing the idea that Vellos should be banned from the game for not being as wise and all-seeing as you.

So maybe you can stop the strawman?