Reworking Trade

[Tom]

Food seems to be getting scarcer on Dwilight. Are the production numbers going to be changed soon?

Working on it. Right now, there are still several hundred bushels stored per region on average, so I'm not afraid of world-wide starvation.

[Gustav Kuriga]

May want to take out the outlier regions in Morek, since I know from word from my real-life cousin that some of them are storing obscene amounts of food.

[Creed]

If you are reworking Trade I think you should allow lords to sell at a higher price then the max 50 gold. I don't really like the fact that their is a cap on what you can charge for food. I believe price can be determined by supply and demand so if supply is very low because of a drought lets say then I think if a Lord has extra food to sell then they should be able to charge a huge amount for it. If I want to charge a 100 gold for  a 100 units of food then I don't see anything wrong with this.  I know I personally would be willing to sell more of my food if I was able to just type in what I wish to sell it for instead of having a cap on what I can sell it for.

If the price is to high then people just wont buy.

[Indirik]

A cap is necessary to prevent various trade system abuses.

[Creed]

I don't see any abuses that could be made but I am sure someone can think of one but price should be determined on supply and demand not some dumb cap. Tom wants use to trade food but at the cap it is really not worth my while to trade any food. Everyone always talks about they have plenty of gold to buy food with but no one to sell to them. I know the reason for me is that a max of 50 gold per a 100 units is not worth it for me. In times like winter and droughts food prices should sky rocket because no one has any but with a cap their will always be a predetermined max price.

If I as a lord want to sell food at 300 gold for a 100 units then I should be allowed.  Their will always be ways people find to abuses the system so trying to put a dumb cap on how much you can sell food for only causes people to not sell food.

[Indirik]

Wow, calling everything dumb like that is sure motivating me to get off my butt and change things for you...

[Creed]

lol I was not trying to offend you. I was just trying to iterate that I believe more people would be more inclined to trade if there was not such a low cap on what you can sell food for.  I believe by allowing players to trade at any price of their choosing and allowing the market to determine the price based on supply and demand would make both the game interesting and allow for for TOM's goal to get more people to trade to be more successful.

If I offended you by my words I am sorry that was not my intention. I was just voicing that the gold cap for trade is hurting far more then it is helping. I mean it should be a easy fix just put the gold cap to say 500 which yes I know it a amount that will never be used but would give players a larger area to work with when pricing and determine what their food is worth. It would allow for supply and demand to work correctly rather then being gimped by the low gold cap we have now.

[Penchant]

lol I was not trying to offend you. I was just trying to iterate that I believe more people would be more inclined to trade if there was not such a low cap on what you can sell food for.  I believe by allowing players to trade at any price of their choosing and allowing the market to determine the price based on supply and demand would make both the game interesting and allow for for TOM's goal to get more people to trade to be more successful.

If I offended you by my words I am sorry that was not my intention. I was just voicing that the gold cap for trade is hurting far more then it is helping. I mean it should be a easy fix just put the gold cap to say 500 which yes I know it a amount that will never be used but would give players a larger area to work with when pricing and determine what their food is worth. It would allow for supply and demand to work correctly rather then being gimped by the low gold cap we have now.

I honestly think you are being rather dumb is you think any lord would ever even if they were starving pay more then 100 gold per 100 bushels. From what I have heard, trade is happening the least on Dwilight and this will not help at all other than have pointless offers on the market because when I do find someone selling food I still usually can't trade because of restrictions, too high of prices, or both.

[Creed]

Penchant You can think what you will but I know for a fact there is a large amount of food just siting around that is not being sold because 50 gold a for a 100 units of food is not worth it.  Secondly Penchant I never said that people would pay that much I just want a high cap so that we can allow supply and demand to work.

Thirdly 50 gold for 100 units is nothing I have a lord of a rural region  and I can buy with my small income enough food to supply my region for more then 60 days and still have gold to build stuff and recruit and pay for a unit. Gold is extremely easy to get in the game but food is becoming a hard commodity to get and the more time that passes the harder it gets. If you think no one will pay over a 100 gold per a 100 units you are mistaking unlike everything else in game food is a must have. If a realm controls food supply they can charge what ever they want because people have to have it.

Think of it like gas. No one thought people would pay over 3 dollars in the US for it but in the height of the price spike people paid in the high 4s and in some places 5 dollars for it.   The simple answer for this is people paid it because they had to pay it  because they need it.

Same concept behind food in this game TOM wants to make food more important so it makes since that prices should be allowed to go higher to equal the demand and need for the food.

[Gustav Kuriga]

I honestly think you are being rather dumb is you think any lord would ever even if they were starving pay more then 100 gold per 100 bushels. From what I have heard, trade is happening the least on Dwilight and this will not help at all other than have pointless offers on the market because when I do find someone selling food I still usually can't trade because of restrictions, too high of prices, or both.

Trade's not happening on Dwilight because of the changes to the food production that lowered it. Why should I sell food to other realms if our realm can hardly feed itself? Prices are high precisely because there is little food. They're not going to lower until more food is available.

[Dante Silverfire]

Penchant You can think what you will but I know for a fact there is a large amount of food just siting around that is not being sold because 50 gold a for a 100 units of food is not worth it.  Secondly Penchant I never said that people would pay that much I just want a high cap so that we can allow supply and demand to work.

Thirdly 50 gold for 100 units is nothing I have a lord of a rural region  and I can buy with my small income enough food to supply my region for more then 60 days and still have gold to build stuff and recruit and pay for a unit. Gold is extremely easy to get in the game but food is becoming a hard commodity to get and the more time that passes the harder it gets. If you think no one will pay over a 100 gold per a 100 units you are mistaking unlike everything else in game food is a must have. If a realm controls food supply they can charge what ever they want because people have to have it.

Think of it like gas. No one thought people would pay over 3 dollars in the US for it but in the height of the price spike people paid in the high 4s and in some places 5 dollars for it.   The simple answer for this is people paid it because they had to pay it  because they need it.

Same concept behind food in this game TOM wants to make food more important so it makes since that prices should be allowed to go higher to equal the demand and need for the food.

While by blank theory you may be correct about food prices, the reason your argument falls up short is that food is not inherently worth anything. Food is a means to an end. Food is essentially a resource used to gain more gold. This means that there is a theoretical underlying value to any food eaten in a specific region. This number is the maximum rate at which food can be converted into gold for that region, when the gold is the max gold production and food the max food consumption. Therefore, if the price for food goes over that value, then it is a net loss in value to purchase food. The solution is not to purchase any food and let population decline until purchasing food is profitable.

[Penchant]

Trade's not happening on Dwilight because of the changes to the food production that lowered it. Why should I sell food to other realms if our realm can hardly feed itself? Prices are high precisely because there is little food. They're not going to lower until more food is available.

Thats one thing that kinda annoys me about the restrictions there are times when the price is right I can't do trades between realm members. I would like that to be possible. What I mean is lets say in Kabrinskia you put 500 bushels to sell for 25 gold per 100 bushels and Khari, the lord of Golden Farrow, makes a buy offer of 500 bushels for 25 gold per 100 bushels I can't have the deal go through because I am not a member of the realm. I would think allowing traders to access restricted trades if they are following the restrictions would allow some more trade.

[Indirik]

@creed: you'd rather let all your food rot away and make no money at all, than sell for 50/100? If that's the case, then I'm sorry, but no price will ever be enough for you.

I can guarantee you that if you had food that the realm needed, and wanted 100/100, one of three things would happen:
1) the realm would ban you and put in someone willing to sell for a realistic price
2) your duke would raise your taxes to a stupidly high level to pay the stupidly high price you're asking (in which case all the lords in the duchy would be pissed at you and probably ask for you to be banned)
3) the banker will slap fines on you for the amount of gold you're making from food sales.

Being able to set stupid high prices for food adds nothing to the game, and only enables trade system exploits.

[Gustav Kuriga]

Why would the realm punish him? I honestly don't see where you're getting your argument, Indirik. There is a much more extensive supply of gold then food. Most Dukes make insane amounts of gold currently, and the only case where that might not be the case is if they're not also the lord of a city. Then it doesn't really matter, because they don't need to buy food for the city. Also, trying to argue with someone about economics who is going for a business major isn't exactly going to be in your favor.

[Dante Silverfire]

Why would the realm punish him? I honestly don't see where you're getting your argument, Indirik. There is a much more extensive supply of gold then food. Most Dukes make insane amounts of gold currently, and the only case where that might not be the case is if they're not also the lord of a city. Then it doesn't really matter, because they don't need to buy food for the city. Also, trying to argue with someone about economics who is going for a business major isn't exactly going to be in your favor.

The realm would punish him because he's directly harming the realm out of greed. My duke would openly ask for the person to be banned in the realm messaging system, and would likely gain the requested support.

Especially while at war, greed that hurts a realm cannot be accepted.