The Zuma

[Solari]

I will not answer this on the forum, and ask that no Moot players do either.

This is a completely IC question. And there is enough IC information that Malus could easily access by asking very simple questions to very obvious people to answer it for himself.

If I wanted the answer IC, I would pursue it IC.  The point of the question wasn't to get some peek at super secret plans.  It was to get people talking in such a way as to shed light on the motivations of various actors so that people weren't making IC assumptions based on faulty OOC understandings.  By that measure, it was a success. 

[Vellos]

If I wanted the answer IC, I would pursue it IC.  The point of the question wasn't to get some peek at super secret plans.  It was to get people talking in such a way as to shed light on the motivations of various actors so that people weren't making IC assumptions based on faulty OOC understandings.  By that measure, it was a success. 

The only Moot players who responded were Machiavel and me. Machiavel isn't involved in the investigation and doesn't know what's going on behind the scenes, while I didn't give much of an answer at all.

I'm not sure what you got from those responses of worth, but whatever.

[Bedwyr]

The Manifest Path didn't pick the Zuma to demonize just because it's convenient.  Heck, as I understand it, their view of the Zuma are pretty much a side effect of their view of all the nonhumans.

This is the key point.  The Manifest Path doesn't have anything against the Zuma in particular.  They are (or at least have) non-humans who have shown willingness and ability to kill humans.  Thus they are evil, and should be weakened or destroyed if possible.

The "if possible" is important.  As Hireshmont and certain others are well aware, Koli has no difficulty with working to keep the Zuma quiescent at the moment, so long as that doesn't end up increasing their power or hurting humanity in a real way, because there's no possible way a war with the Zuma can be won...Now.

[Bedwyr]

See, that's the kind of logic that's just not going to work when dealing with people who have never met them.

It's also never going to work when dealing with people whose religion tells them that anyone who has ever met a Daimon and not either killed it or died trying is evil.

(And yes, I know that's an oversimplification of tMP, but I'm using it to illustrate the point.)

Only a very mild oversimplification, in that tMP allows the tactic of smiling prettily at the Daimons and offering them flowers while your buddy sneaks up behind them with a dagger, and the realm/continent level equivalents.

[songqu88@gmail.com]

Abyss staring back and all that good stuff, right? Because, obviously, none of y'all would be the first or the last to think of some "cunning" plan that has questionable chance of success. By that I mean approximately 3.51% calculated using likelihood ratios and the Bayes stuff lol.

[De-Legro]

Abyss staring back and all that good stuff, right? Because, obviously, none of y'all would be the first or the last to think of some "cunning" plan that has questionable chance of success. By that I mean approximately 3.51% calculated using likelihood ratios and the Bayes stuff lol.

You think? Is this really so hard to understand. As players we know that we have little chance in any capacity to take on the Zuma, or more correctly we lack the info to even determine if and how it may be possible. As characters we are nobles full of our own invisibility and hubris. Some times characters do stupid things because it fits the character, not because the player behind that character is stupid.

[songqu88@gmail.com]

lol you missed my point completely. Which might have just been me being a general semi-jerk, though I'm not sure if I fit the bill there since I'm not actually intending on getting on anyone's nerves. Come to think of it, I don't even know why I'm posting random crap right now. It's lols.

[Chenier]

The only Moot players who responded were Machiavel and me. Machiavel isn't involved in the investigation and doesn't know what's going on behind the scenes, while I didn't give much of an answer at all.

I'm not sure what you got from those responses of worth, but whatever.

All I said was that my character's been around for quite a while and has had the opportunity to be slighted by a whole bunch of people from all over. In a more elaborate fashion.

[Vaylon Kenadell]

That may be so, but that's meaningless in context. tMP believes what it believes based not on the Zuma, but on the BT invasions. What they believe is both rationally arrived at and cannot be proven wrong. Just because it doesn't fit the Zuma very well outwardly doesn't mean that it isn't a valid response to their existence.

It seems like a logical leap to assume that the information from BT invasions is applicable to a group on Dwilight if their behaviors are radically different. How do your characters know in-character that the two groups are even comparable, especially in light of the dissimilarity between the two groups?

[De-Legro]

It seems like a logical leap to assume that the information from BT invasions is applicable to a group on Dwilight if their behaviors are radically different. How do your characters know in-character that the two groups are even comparable, especially in light of the dissimilarity between the two groups?

The whole point is that over here in Luria, our characters don't KNOW about the dissimilarities between the two groups. We hear rumours of Daimon overlords over a human population known as Zuma, the majority of characters would know little past that. Historically, when faced with a lack of information the tendency would be to categorise something in a similar vein to something you do have information about, thus it makes sense to place the "Massively Powerful Inhuman" creatures that you know little of into the same boat as the "Massively Powerful Inhumans" that you do know something about.

The logical leap is the assumption that the tMP has access to any info that would allow them to differentiate between Zuma and the Daimons of BT.

This is of course pretending that our characters even ARE rational logical people, and not just mad zealots with an agenda.

[Norrel]

This is of course pretending that our characters even ARE rational logical people, and not just mad zealots with an agenda.

Yup.

[Vaylon Kenadell]

It makes no sense to assume that the beings on Dwilight are the same as the beings on Beluaterra. That they both may or may not fit in the caegory of "Massively powerful inhumans ruling over humans" is irrelevant given that their behavior is radically different; even characters in Luria would be aware of this fact. Here is how:

Luria, even as far away as it is from the Zuma, would have long ago heard news if the beings on Dwilight were as inclined to same level of destruction as those on BT. Therefore, the absence of such reports is by itself enough to throw suspicion on the assumption that the two groups are the same -- particularly so, if you are comparing past invasions of BT to Dwilight.

[Chenier]

It makes no sense to assume that the beings on Dwilight are the same as the beings on Beluaterra. That they both may or may not fit in the caegory of "Massively powerful inhumans ruling over humans" is irrelevant given that their behavior is radically different; even characters in Luria would be aware of this fact. Here is how:

Luria, even as far away as it is from the Zuma, would have long ago heard news if the beings on Dwilight were as inclined to same level of destruction as those on BT. Therefore, the absence of such reports is by itself enough to throw suspicion on the assumption that the two groups are the same -- particularly so, if you are comparing past invasions of BT to Dwilight.

Indeed.

As for Anaris' comment earlier (I think it was him) about how impossible it was for the Lurians to find out... what makes you say that? It's not that hard to go to the Zuma lands. Unless you are an ass, D'Hara tends to grant permission to use their ports if you announce your arrival and intent.

[De-Legro]

Indeed.

As for Anaris' comment earlier (I think it was him) about how impossible it was for the Lurians to find out... what makes you say that? It's not that hard to go to the Zuma lands. Unless you are an ass, D'Hara tends to grant permission to use their ports if you announce your arrival and intent.

He never said it was impossible, he did state that it is likely they HAVEN'T made the trek.

[Chenier]

He never said it was impossible, he did state that it is likely they HAVEN'T made the trek.

Actually, he did.

But there's no way for most people on Dwilight—or, indeed, most players on Dwilight—to know that they're not just more Daimons like the ones on BT, who have, for reasons of their own, decided not to try taking over the continent, but might, for reasons of their own, change their minds at any time.

Unless you don't think that "no way" is synonymous to impossible.