The Zuma

[Shizzle]

Also, your OOC leetspeak seems to conflict with the in-game character of your statement SMA?

[Glaumring the Fox]

 

[Bjarnson]

If you kill them all, then there won't be any "the rest" for the Stars to sort out.

The stars get to sort the hacked and slashed chunks that are left behind?

[roland.walters@abbott.com]

One of my characters has spent a significant amount of time in Zuma and tried multiple approachs to them, I have come to the conclusion that they are not interested is humans at all as long as we do not do something that they interpret as interfering in their sphere of influence.  I have tied communication, trading, offering magic items, and other approaches.  The only response I have gotten is from their ambassador who only seems interested in obtaining magic scrolls and occasionally droping a bit of typically cryptic conversation.  Their ambassador does seem to be quite well funded given his recent offer for a magic scroll that my character has.  I have not seen any signs of significant armies.  Numerous monster groups seem to be the primary issue for the areas they rule which is what makes their lands so attractive to adventurers as they seem to ignore adventurers as well as nobility.  Each of their Lords seems to act on their own and I have not seen more than two in any one region at the same time.  On occasion, their Lords seem to disappear from their regions but my efforts to track their movements have been difficult to conduct  and has not produced any discernable patterns.  I would be glad to answer any questions but I doubt that I can add any more clarity on them.

[Vellos]

That should be IC info.

[^ban^]

That should be IC info.

Well aren't you just boring. Imagine if I'd never taken the time to make the comments on the fourth invasion that I have. Should that have also have been entirely IC info?

[songqu88@gmail.com]

As I understand, the 4th Inv was concluded when you came out.

This is...whatever, really. The way Mr. Walters wrote the post sounded like it would not look wrong if sent in-game either.

[roland.walters@abbott.com]

Actually all of this information has been passed on in game to a few individuals quite some time ago.  It appears that  it was not being made widely available for reasons that are not obvious to me.  An adventurer has a more limited set of contacts so it is difficult to get a concerted effort made into understanding the Zuma's motives when playing  that type of character, especially when the nobility seems to think you have a very limited intellect, but it seems easier to gather information with an adventurer than for a noble.  I have witnessed to several amusing attempts by visiting nobles to establish even a single response from the Zuma and they seem to have much less success than adventurers.  Probably due to the lower profile that the adventurer tend to take.  Adventurers tend to not make demands while the nobility seem to think they should not be ignored and hence loose the few chances at communication that might present themselves.  Lots of role playing and skulking around involved to get  little bits of information.

[egamma]

What I don't understand is, if the Manifest Path are interested in the Zuma, why they don't devote some time to getting information about them? They can get plenty of information (of questionable quality, of course) through the Dwilight University, Libidizedd Trading Company, or Dwilight Trade Company, or other guilds and religions. I know that these may not be the 'proper' channels for information about the Zuma, but Gornak and many others close to the Zuma or who have had contact with the Zuma would be happy to share what they know.

If nothing else, these would be good avenues to find out what you need to find out, so that you at least know what you don't know about the Zuma.

[Bedwyr]

What I don't understand is, if the Manifest Path are interested in the Zuma, why they don't devote some time to getting information about them? They can get plenty of information (of questionable quality, of course) through the Dwilight University, Libidizedd Trading Company, or Dwilight Trade Company, or other guilds and religions. I know that these may not be the 'proper' channels for information about the Zuma, but Gornak and many others close to the Zuma or who have had contact with the Zuma would be happy to share what they know.

If nothing else, these would be good avenues to find out what you need to find out, so that you at least know what you don't know about the Zuma.

Two things:

1. In the immediate sense, Koli knows everything he needs to know.  They are Daimons, they are far too powerful to fight right now.  Thus confrontation is unwise, time to build up/unite humanity first.

2. Too busy with internal Lurian issues.  Koli and the rest of the leaders of the Path have been working very hard to try and keep another civil war from starting.  And, of course, the week Koli decides things are stable enough that he can finally take his trip to spread the good word, another potential one starts simmering.

[De-Legro]

Two things:

1. In the immediate sense, Koli knows everything he needs to know.  They are Daimons, they are far too powerful to fight right now.  Thus confrontation is unwise, time to build up/unite humanity first.

2. Too busy with internal Lurian issues.  Koli and the rest of the leaders of the Path have been working very hard to try and keep another civil war from starting.  And, of course, the week Koli decides things are stable enough that he can finally take his trip to spread the good word, another potential one starts simmering.

You forgot

3) Lurians would have to trust those sources. With pretty constant civil war and internal bickering, a lot of Lurians aren't the trusting type

4) We would have to be aware that those group HAVE knowledge to share. I'm not that sure that many in tMP realise that other groups have any substantial dealings with the Zuma other then the present war and some other minor conflicts in the past.

5) Juan a priest of tMP actually knows quite a bit about the Zuma, from when we dealt with them during the plan to establish Asylon, he chooses to be silent for his own reasons.

But really Bedwyr's first point sums it up. The tMP like to talk about civilisation, about logic reason and such, but when you get down to it they can be just as close minded about reviewing their beliefs as any other religion. We don't seek knowledge about the Zuma because really we don't entertain the possibility that our initial position could be wrong.

[egamma]

We don't seek knowledge about the Zuma because really we don't entertain the possibility that our initial position could be wrong.

That's fine, but shouldn't someone start gathering information in order to exterminate them? Like, which of the realms between yours and the Zuma would allow you passage rights to fight them, the size of the forces of the Zuma, etc.

"Know thine enemy" is never bad advice.

[Geronus]

That's fine, but shouldn't someone start gathering information in order to exterminate them? Like, which of the realms between yours and the Zuma would allow you passage rights to fight them, the size of the forces of the Zuma, etc.

"Know thine enemy" is never bad advice.

Sure, if that were their immediate goal. But from what Bedwyr and De-Legro *just* said, it isn't.

[De-Legro]

That's fine, but shouldn't someone start gathering information in order to exterminate them? Like, which of the realms between yours and the Zuma would allow you passage rights to fight them, the size of the forces of the Zuma, etc.

"Know thine enemy" is never bad advice.

Well firstly, there are no immediate plans to do anything regarding the Zuma, so working out passage rights and such would be massively premature. As would knowing about their forces. Any POSSIBLE action that we MIGHT take is so far into the future that any current info is likely to be worthless. Plus resources and time are limited, there are far more immediate issues that we need to spend time collecting information about.

And again, that is assuming our beliefs regarding our possible war against the Zuma is even rational enough that we don't just assume we can storm in and by the power of our faith instantly win. People REALLY REALLY need to understand, tMP presents itself within a "rational" framework. We use logic, but the assumptions upon which we base our logic can be purposely quite incorrect, stupid and otherwise insane.

[Bedwyr]

And again, that is assuming our beliefs regarding our possible war against the Zuma is even rational enough that we don't just assume we can storm in and by the power of our faith instantly win. People REALLY REALLY need to understand, tMP presents itself within a "rational" framework. We use logic, but the assumptions upon which we base our logic can be purposely quite incorrect, stupid and otherwise insane.

As a for instance, Koli is operating off of the completely mistaken belief (unless Tom decides otherwise, which I think is approximately as likely as him making me the God-Emperor of the game in the new pantheon) that tMP's attempts to garner the souls of the dead will provide protection from Daimonic and other magic.

Not to mention that most of the "logic" is pseudo-logic at best.