Aurvandil's War Machine

[Allomere]

I don't really want to do this but since these reports are from over a week to a month ago I can't see it mattering. However, clearly this needs clarifying. These are our tax incomes.

3062 gold.
3539 gold.
3186 gold.
3476 gold.

300 of which pays our 5KCS of militia in Candiels each week.

Trust me, it doesn't take 3000 gold to keep a standing army of 11 KCS paid. We've been building up for a month, that's why we can only ever attack Madina every three weeks or so, and with our RC's which seem rather cheap and are mostly all enlarged we can rally up a lot of infantry in just a few days and with a few drafts. That is partially why Candiel's morale is at stoic at the moment. Next tax is going to be nasty because the city is down to plodding since we've been in Madina, but all that mattered was that we broke Tower Fatmilak. We can afford to take a week to recover. Recruiting 10 of our best infantry only just costs more than 40 gold and the archers I hire are something like 28 gold per 10. Very easy on a Lord's wages to get 100 archers, which are about 800 CS.

Yeah, there are a lot of investments in Candiels, and the tax boom just before we attacked helped quite a bit. We weren't going to attack just then and then got landed with about 300 extra gold. I don't see why other realms can't rally as much CS when they need to, it really hasn't been that difficult for us, with minimal planning. Ruler taxes are high so there's always a good pool of gold to be handed out to the units that need it, and any extra gold I don't use I hand out. There's also a reason why the Motte and Bailey in Candiels Fields has been almost falling down for several months now, and at the moment is at 72 % damaged. We've been focussed on building an army to break Madina. Wasting gold on stuff behind the lines is worthless.

Oh yeah, even I'll admit Allomere has taken a few prestige knocks to get family gold in the past week. No one is denying that. That's the problem, you're all talking as if we've been maintaining this CS for ages, we haven't ; we've spent a month saving gold and spent it all in one go. There was no other way to challenge TF.

[Allomere]

And as the running joke in Allomere's roleplays go, I can give you another explanation.

"How is your military so powerful?"
"We use children, lots of children"

[De-Legro]

I don't really want to do this but since these reports are from over a week to a month ago I can't see it mattering. However, clearly this needs clarifying. These are our tax incomes.

3062 gold.
3539 gold.
3186 gold.
3476 gold.

300 of which pays our 5KCS of militia in Candiels each week.

Trust me, it doesn't take 3000 gold to keep a standing army of 11 KCS paid. We've been building up for a month, that's why we can only ever attack Madina every three weeks or so, and with our RC's which seem rather cheap and are mostly all enlarged we can rally up a lot of infantry in just a few days and with a few drafts. That is partially why Candiel's morale is at stoic at the moment. Next tax is going to be nasty because the city is down to plodding since we've been in Madina, but all that mattered was that we broke Tower Fatmilak. We can afford to take a week to recover. Recruiting 10 of our best infantry only just costs more than 40 gold and the archers I hire are something like 28 gold per 10. Very easy on a Lord's wages to get 100 archers, which are about 800 CS.

Yeah, there are a lot of investments in Candiels, and the tax boom just before we attacked helped quite a bit. We weren't going to attack just then and then got landed with about 300 extra gold. I don't see why other realms can't rally as much CS when they need to, it really hasn't been that difficult for us, with minimal planning. Ruler taxes are high so there's always a good pool of gold to be handed out to the units that need it, and any extra gold I don't use I hand out. There's also a reason why the Motte and Bailey in Candiels Fields has been almost falling down for several months now, and at the moment is at 72 % damaged. We've been focussed on building an army to break Madina. Wasting gold on stuff behind the lines is worthless.

Oh yeah, even I'll admit Allomere has taken a few prestige knocks to get family gold in the past week. No one is denying that. That's the problem, you're all talking as if we've been maintaining this CS for ages, we haven't ; we've spent a month saving gold and spent it all in one go. There was no other way to challenge TF.

Why can't most realms do this? Because most realms of 40 nobles lack the singular focus and unity displayed in Aurvandil. It is very rare to see this level of activity across a realm, the high level of co-ordination. Does that make Aurvandil cheats? No its just always going to turn heads since it is against the norm.

[De-Legro]

And as the running joke in Allomere's roleplays go, I can give you another explanation.

"How is your military so powerful?"
"We use children, lots of children"

Glaumring, he stole your idea.

[DoctorHarte]

Why can't most realms do this? Because most realms of 40 nobles lack the singular focus and unity displayed in Aurvandil. It is very rare to see this level of activity across a realm, the high level of co-ordination. Does that make Aurvandil cheats? No its just always going to turn heads since it is against the norm.

Seeing as the attack was over the course of 2 turns, it wasn't hard to have full participation especially with a 9 hour travel time. My unit is also 8 days unpaid and I have 1 gold on me. We put everything behind this assault, knowing that it would crush Madina and the consequences wouldnt outweigh the benefits.

[De-Legro]

Seeing as the attack was over the course of 2 turns, it wasn't hard to have full participation especially with a 9 hour travel time. My unit is also 8 days unpaid and I have 1 gold on me. We put everything behind this assault, knowing that it would crush Madina and the consequences wouldnt outweigh the benefits.

I don't think you understand. In most realms it is almost impossible to get 100% of the realm into armies to start with. Always there are people that have better things to do, or who are only interested in courtier work etc. Secondly even when you just look at people in armies, two turn more or not 80% successful movement is generally considered good. The Lions in Fontan had 100% movement, but they were a single army of the realm. Their movement combined with good leadership was instrumental to Fontans war effort. When that one army was lost, Fontans fortunes in that war changed for the worst. If Fontan could have relied on 100% participation for even ONE battle that would have been a huge thing.

You were a member of Enweil, when was the last time you saw 100% of the nobility of that realm arrive to a battle on time?

There are always realms that will manage this level of co-ordination. Envy will generally make people suspicious.

[Indirik]

The Lions in Fontan had 100% movement, but they were a single army of the realm.

And it is also widely suspected that the Lions were not just a single army, but a single player, too. When things started to go south for their leader, and it looked like he might be outed, he rage-quit. And so did all his "friends and family", too. Within a few minutes of each other.

[De-Legro]

And it is also widely suspected that the Lions were not just a single army, but a single player, too. When things started to go south for their leader, and it looked like he might be outed, he rage-quit. And so did all his "friends and family", too. Within a few minutes of each other.

Yes I remember. A few lions remained but certainly the bulk of the force left within the same turn.

[Vellos]

Realm page, which I believe just shows the total gold of the regions, given perfect production and 10% tax. Like I said, not a great indicator of true gold income. Then again the stats page is not perfect either, and doesn't take into account things like tax rates.

The realm page gives perfect production, but not 10% tax. It gives daily gold output that can be taxed, I'm pretty sure.

The realm stats page give gold produced, after accounting for production, assuming a 10% tax rate.

[Shizzle]

Why can't most realms do this? Because most realms of 40 nobles lack the singular focus and unity displayed in Aurvandil. It is very rare to see this level of activity across a realm, the high level of co-ordination. Does that make Aurvandil cheats? No its just always going to turn heads since it is against the norm.

Then again, all the Aurvandillians (?) could do was sit in Candiels. They were already rallied, and could maintain a well-equipped army without much effort.
The attacking order wasn't exactly complex, either...

[De-Legro]

Then again, all the Aurvandillians (?) could do was sit in Candiels. They were already rallied, and could maintain a well-equipped army without much effort.
The attacking order wasn't exactly complex, either...

Is true. Perdan and others have been known to pull the same thing off. And generally have attracted the same accusations whenever they do it. Like I said, envy. When you see a realm of dedicated players being successful, while your own realm is stuck with infighting sometime people let envy get the better of them.

[Chenier]

That is generally why people complain. Its not impossible, but it is extremely uncommon to see realms operate at such a degree of efficiency. Sirion has a pretty efficient gold system, it doesn't come close to what Aurvandil would need. People will jump to cheating accusations, because some of the player made use of an exploit before. But yes it would be unfair to accuse them of cheating in this instance without some sort of proof.

Can't see them calling on family money, that would dry up soon enough when the family gets tired of being a bank. Constant investments could work, but that would imply the army is going to be in trouble with everyone currently fighting, or they have stockpiled enough to get by.

Nobody said they were cheating. But many of us are wondering if they are. It's not the same.

I'd just like someone with the power to check to look if it's all legit. Just a legitimacy check would satisfy me.

[De-Legro]

Nobody said they were cheating. But many of us are wondering if they are. It's not the same.

I'd just like someone with the power to check to look if it's all legit. Just a legitimacy check would satisfy me.

Then why not send a PM to a member of the Dev Team or Tom? Why post in public on the forum? This whole topic was just inviting a flame war and was always going to end with people venting against Aurvandil.

[Vellos]

I would be very interested in knowing how Aurvandil got so powerful.

But not in the sense that I think they're cheating; more in the sense that I'm just really curious to know. Irombrozia squeezed 12k out of 1-2k gold sometimes.

But, then again, Twinblade was running half a dozen or more multis in Irombrozia at the time... so it's a moot example.

But, yeah, I'm not really thinking "cheating." I just want to know, because it's genuinely impressive.

[vonGenf]

It just reeks of Thulsoma's exploits. And these ARE the same guys, aren't they? No offense to the players who play there, but I've never seen anyone achieve such things in a legitimate way before.

Maybe other people kept better notes, but from what I remember off the top of my head Aurvandil's performance has no common measure with what Thulsoma did. Aurvandil has close to 100k pop and 10 regions - it's a real realm. Thulsoma at some point had nothing more than two regions with a couple hundred peasants each, it looked more like Zuma lands than anything else.