Idea: Plate Mail

[Chenier]

I dislike this idea. Our nobles represent the top of the top.

I hate dealing with unique items, and I'd have a hard time seeing myself enjoying this.

To me, it all just sounds like the possibility of a nice big e-peen for characters once they capped their family gold.

What exactly does this money dump add to gameplay?

All I see is another incentive for people to pursue peace so that they may hoard gold to satisfy their personal vanity.

[De-Legro]

Better to restrict it by other means then. Instead of having ridiculous cost. Why don't you restrict it through prestige or position? Maybe only kings and dukes should be able to buy Ornate armor?

Why? What advantage does that provide? This is accurate, anyone with the wealth could afford the armour. If a knight somehow has the income to afford better armour don't you think they would avail themselves of it? Mind you the 10,000 gold cost is for a proposed 5th level

If people max it out, I can add a 5th quality, at x5 of ornate, which would come to almost 10,000 gold. There will definitely be very few of those around.

Armour	Cheap	Standard	Quality	Ornate
Full Plate	80	160	480	1920
Half Plate	40	80	240	960
Breastplate	20	40	120	480

[Gustav Kuriga]

To me this doesn't add anything to the game. I'd rather rp what armor I wear than have it represented by game mechanics. This is a role-play game after all

[De-Legro]

To me this doesn't add anything to the game. I'd rather rp what armor I wear than have it represented by game mechanics. This is a role-play game after all

So is D&D Skyrim etc. Just because a game is a RP game doesn't mean everything is left to the player. Part of the reason to implement this would be for atmosphere. When people do RP their armour, in my experience 80% of them RP having some ornate full plate, even when they are a dirt poor knight of a few weeks in game.

[Zakilevo]

So is D&D Skyrim etc. Just because a game is a RP game doesn't mean everything is left to the player. Part of the reason to implement this would be for atmosphere. When people do RP their armour, in my experience 80% of them RP having some ornate full plate, even when they are a dirt poor knight of a few weeks in game.

LOL. True and that doesn't make any sense when your income is 25 gold per week. I don't think you can even afford a full plate armour with so little gold.

[Chenier]

So is D&D Skyrim etc. Just because a game is a RP game doesn't mean everything is left to the player. Part of the reason to implement this would be for atmosphere. When people do RP their armour, in my experience 80% of them RP having some ornate full plate, even when they are a dirt poor knight of a few weeks in game.

Because their parents are important people, and probably made sure to scrounge up enough gold to properly equip their children before sending them out.

I personally never roleplayed as wearing full armor, nor have I seen many people roleplay such things either.

[De-Legro]

Because their parents are important people, and probably made sure to scrounge up enough gold to properly equip their children before sending them out.

I personally never roleplayed as wearing full armor, nor have I seen many people roleplay such things either.

They are knights yes? No matter how important the parents the idea of every noble having full plate armour is appropriate only to late medieval period. If you go down that route, why did they not scrounge enough gold to get a better starting unit for them? Or hirer some damn healers and scouts. We can PLAINLY see how much family gold is given to a new noble, and that doesn't cover the expense of full plate armour.

My main problem with the system would be it seems arbitrary. Why pick armour and not other items a noble would need? Also the fixed cost, while expensive doesn't really end up being that prohibitive. I could easily see realms dedicate themselves in peace time to fitting out as many nobles as possible with the armour, or knights just hoarding gold for it. Would the cost be met by family gold or would it need to be gold on hand? Without some form of recurring cost the only real factor to getting top level armour is time.

[Chenier]

They are knights yes? No matter how important the parents the idea of every noble having full plate armour is appropriate only to late medieval period. If you go down that route, why did they not scrounge enough gold to get a better starting unit for them? Or hirer some damn healers and scouts. We can PLAINLY see how much family gold is given to a new noble, and that doesn't cover the expense of full plate armour.

Because units die quickly and you can easily go recruit more?

Armor was already owned by the family, or bought with saving specifically for that purpose. Easy reason why nobles would start with armor without seeing any deductions anywhere.

But who cares what kind of armor it is? Most people have never roleplayed their armor. Then, of those I have seen, I've never been inclined to believe that most who do RP having armor RP it as being full plate.

What is the point of this feature? To make the wealthy bastards who hogg dukeships without ever doing anything invincible? As if wounding them seriously enough to make them lose their position wasn't hard enough already.

This feature adds nothing to the game, it just gives incentives to whore gold and makes stronger those who do.

[De-Legro]

Because units die quickly and you can easily go recruit more?

Armor was already owned by the family, or bought with saving specifically for that purpose. Easy reason why nobles would start with armor without seeing any deductions anywhere.

But who cares what kind of armor it is? Most people have never roleplayed their armor. Then, of those I have seen, I've never been inclined to believe that most who do RP having armor RP it as being full plate.

What is the point of this feature? To make the wealthy bastards who hogg dukeships without ever doing anything invincible? As if wounding them seriously enough to make them lose their position wasn't hard enough already.

This feature adds nothing to the game, it just gives incentives to whore gold and makes stronger those who do.

Nobles do start with armour, they simply don't start with high quality full plate armour. Chain mail would be a common armour even for relatively rich knights over much of the medieval period, or something like plate mail. But besides adding some sort of armour scarcity to the game, I'm not sure I see much benefit either.

[Chenier]

Nobles do start with armour, they simply don't start with high quality full plate armour. Chain mail would be a common armour even for relatively rich knights over much of the medieval period, or something like plate mail. But besides adding some sort of armour scarcity to the game, I'm not sure I see much benefit either.

People can RP whatever armor they want, as it is, it doesn't change anything. So who cares if a very tiny minority of new characters RP as having full plate?

All this feature does is allow rich nobles, which are usually dukes, to become unstabable. And since dukes are hard enough to get rid of as it is, I don't see why we'd want that.

Unless full plate just gives current defense, and everyone's defenses are lowered. But then again: being wounded isn't much fun, why would we want to make people become wounded more often?

[De-Legro]

People can RP whatever armor they want, as it is, it doesn't change anything. So who cares if a very tiny minority of new characters RP as having full plate?

All this feature does is allow rich nobles, which are usually dukes, to become unstabable. And since dukes are hard enough to get rid of as it is, I don't see why we'd want that.

Unless full plate just gives current defense, and everyone's defenses are lowered. But then again: being wounded isn't much fun, why would we want to make people become wounded more often?

That is an assumption, we have no idea just how effective armour would be in reducing wounds, and even if it IS effective, how many nobles run around in full armour all the time? It is likely it would affect combat wounding not infiltration wounding. You really need to stop proclaiming doom and gloom about features that don't even exist.

[Chenier]

That is an assumption, we have no idea just how effective armour would be in reducing wounds, and even if it IS effective, how many nobles run around in full armour all the time? It is likely it would affect combat wounding not infiltration wounding. You really need to stop proclaiming doom and gloom about features that don't even exist.

Armor will necessarily create people who will get wounded easier and/or people who will be harder to wound.

All I'm saying is that it's hard enough to get dukes out of their positions. Even if the uber armor only gives 1% chance of avoiding a wound, that's a 1% step in the wrong direction. Regardless of what wounds it applies to or not.

And that's ignoring how this would encourage unfun behavior from those with the financial power.

[De-Legro]

Armor will necessarily create people who will get wounded easier and/or people who will be harder to wound.

All I'm saying is that it's hard enough to get dukes out of their positions. Even if the uber armor only gives 1% chance of avoiding a wound, that's a 1% step in the wrong direction. Regardless of what wounds it applies to or not.

And that's ignoring how this would encourage unfun behavior from those with the financial power.

Then learn to state things without hyperbole. There is a big difference between saying someone is unstabable (which mind you in my experience is rubbish) and saying I think is already hard enough to stab people. You are also coming at things assuming that one of the intents of wounding is to generate a reasonable chance of someone losing their position. As the occurrence is not that common, it would be more logical to assume that losing ones position is supposed to be rare, and that the point of wounding is to take players out of action for a while. Obviously that effect would be reduced by the armour, but then I've not had that much trouble stabbing rulers and dukes in the middle of their armies, so unless the effect is quite pronounced I don't see the issue. Its not like it makes a whole lot of sense that infiltrators can reliably penetrate enemy camps and stab the highest ranked nobles in the land anyway.

[Norrel]

I dislike this idea.

The way we RP our knights are more similar to real medieval barons than to real medieval knights, and I'm sure that most barons can afford it. Besides that, does it actually harm the game at all if people RP having plate armor? Does it detract enough from the overall game experience to warrant the time needed to create it and balance it when there are other glaring things that need to be fixed? I would say no.

We already have a status symbol in the game; unique items. Instead of adding another superfluous system, the focus should be on fixing that area.

[Indirik]

I would rather see unique items being developed in this direction, with armour that reduces chances of getting wounded and weapons increases the chance of wounding someone in battle etc.

I agree with this. We already have unique weapons and armor. Rather than create a whole new system that is essentially a massive gold sink, why not use unique items? We have advies to find and repair them. We can add a few more varieties to broaden out the armor aspect of it with things like helms, shields, greaves, breastplates, chain hauberks, etc. Add a new "protection" stat, or just base it off the prestige bonus.

This will also breath life back into the stale, and mostly ignored, unique item aspect of the game. It makes advies more useful, make judges stealing unique items more tempting, make losing them hurt more, increase the value of existing items, ...etc. I would much rather we extended and repurposed an already existing and neglected feature than create another one from scratch.