Way harder then this ought to be

[Indirik]

Why not just an option "Announce your region as a new duchy" which automatically makes you duke of THAT duchy regardless of whether you were a duke of another duchy or not?

Why? There's no purpose to that. You are already a duke. If you want your duchy to have a different name, then rename it.

If you just want two duchies, then promote some other lord to duke. Done.

[pcw27]

The purpose is its way simpler. Even if I (as well as any other players necessary for the process) knew the system perfectly and was making only the correct actions, we'd still be dealing with an overly long process which has to be done in exact order.

First I step down from Gaston, then I wait for my desired lord to step down, then I promote him to lord, then I can become lord of the new region, then I make his city a new duchy. Mind you I haven't gotten to the point yet where I can even see if this works. I may just wind up with some new pitfall in the way.

If I or any other player involved gets even one of these steps out of order the whole process is screwed up and everyone involved has to step down and start over. That's not fun.

[JPierreD]

The system is a little bit complicated, true, but empowering the Ruler over the Lords and Dukes doesn't really seem to be the best solution.

[pcw27]

I'm not saying the ruler should be allowed to kick lords or anything. I just think bringing back the "announce your city as a new duchy" option  or just allowing a duchy to be created without a lord present would save a lot of time and effort on the part of the players and make it easier to coordinate administrative changes between multiple players who may not all be logged on.

[Tom]

It's a mix of confusion because the system is new, wanting to do strange things that I'm not sure I fully comprehended, and a lack of transparency.

I fully agree that the game could be more explicit in telling you why the people who are not available are not available. If someone wants to add that to the bugtracker, I'll acknowledge it and it will be done, sooner or later.

[pcw27]

A step by step guide on the wiki to forming new duchies might be helpful. Along with that there should be a link next to "create a new duchy" warning that the process is somewhat complicated

It's likely that other rulers will have trouble with the current system as it's somewhat counter intuitive. It's easier to form a single duchy and then split it then it is to settle a new city as its own duchy which is not what you'd expect.

[JPierreD]

In which wiki page?

[Indirik]

The process of creating a duchy is not complex at all. All you do is select a lord and click a button. *poof* That lord become the duke of a new duchy. This is not complex or difficult, and it all explained already in the game, on the page where you do it.

The problem, I think, lays in your still making the assumption of "city = duchy", which is no longer true. Well, that and I think you assumed the process was complex, made a mistake, got flustered, and panicked. Slow down, take a deep breath, and read the instructions you already have.

But if you want to add some instructions to the wiki, then by all means do so. That's why it is there.

[egamma]

The process of creating a duchy is not complex at all. All you do is select a lord and click a button. *poof* That lord become the duke of a new duchy. This is not complex or difficult, and it all explained already in the game, on the page where you do it.

But, under the new system, it is possible to have a duke who is neither region lord nor knight (although they can be ruler). Apparently that's not the case when you create a new duchy--it's like a remnant of the old system, although I understand why it has to be this way.

The requirements do look a little wonky, especially with lordship elections:

Requirement to gain an estate: not have an estate in another region.
Requirement to be lord: be elected lord, even if you have an estate in another region. OR, if appointed, the region lord must not have an estate in a different region.
Requirement to be duke: be a lord of a region in the duchy, or not have an estate. Granted automatically to lords of cities, thanks to old code.

See how it's not as simple as the wiki makes it out to be? the automatic dukeship, and having an estate in a different region if you are elected lord of another, are both inconsistencies.

[fodder]

ah.. the thing is...

he wants to be lord+duke of specific region. as opposed to duke of same thing but lord of old region that he's lord of.

beats me why he's fixated with being lord of darfix.

so the question is.. before he did whatever... was darfix part of the duchy of gaston already upon its capture?

if it was.. surely he could have just stepped down as lord of garston and just appoint himself as lord of darfix.

if darfix is not in duchy of gaston, what duchy was it in?

--
elections are screwed... forget elections as working properly. (wrt hierachy)

[JPierreD]

beats me why he's fixated with being lord of darfix.

$$$

so the question is.. before he did whatever... was darfix part of the duchy of gaston already upon its capture?

It was, there was only the Duchy of Gaston, and later the Duchy of Niselur was made in Under Darfix.

[egamma]

if it was.. surely he could have just stepped down as lord of gaston and just appoint himself as lord of darfix.

He would have to leave his estate and step down as lord of gaston, then appoint himself lord of darfix. IF Darfix is part of his duchy.

if darfix is not in duchy of gaston, what duchy was it in?

Well, the behavior we saw in D'Hara is that the old code will automatically create a new duchy a turn or two after a city is TOed. If he had simply waited a turn, it would have been its own duchy, and he could have left his estate, stepped down as lord, stepped down as duke, appointed himself duke of the new duchy of darfix, appointed himself lord of darfix, and then given himself an estate in darfix.

OR, if the devs have fixed the auto-duchy creation, then it was in the same...duchy...so the problem is that the code doesn't let a ruler appoint himself...bah, I give up.

[pcw27]

The process of creating a duchy is not complex at all. All you do is select a lord and click a button. *poof* That lord become the duke of a new duchy. This is not complex or difficult, and it all explained already in the game, on the page where you do it.

That process isn't complicated so long as you don't care who becomes duke of the new duchy. Having a specific person makes it a little harder, and trying to have yourself become that duke is even more complicated, it's easier to get tripped up then you might think.

[pcw27]

Ok, I've more or less gotten the system to work and I stand by that it's more complicated then it ought to be. Now that I've split the duchies all of the regions are now part of what was supposed to be the new duchy, meaning for continuity's sake they now all have to change allegiance back to the duchy they're supposed to be a part of.

[pcw27]

beats me why he's fixated with being lord of darfix.

It's the largest and richest city on Dwilight and has considerable historical, traditional and religious significance.. There's no way my character would pass it up.