Archery as a tournament skill

[pcw27]

One of the most iconic figures in medieval legend is Robin Hood. One of the most iconic moments of the Robin Hood legend is the archery contest.

Archery exists in the game as an option for combat, but unlike jousting and swordplay has no skill linked with it. This in turn takes away a lot of fun from anyone leading an archer unit. Unlike infantry or cavalry they have no opportunity for skill improvement on the battlefield therefore their time spent at war counts for nothing at tournament. This either deters players from using archers, or from attending tournaments, both of which are supposed to be their inalienable rights.

Many nations throughout history prided themselves on the skill of their archers. Some battle master realms may boast especially powerful archer units, however when it comes to representing themselves at a tournament they have no way of showing off what for them should be a source of national pride.

In conclusion I feel an archery skill makes sense for the sake of role-play, medieval flavor, game balance, and diversity of player choices.

[Anaris]

One of the most iconic figures in medieval legend is Robin Hood.

Legend, not fact.

Frequently requested, frequently rejected. Look it up.

[pcw27]

Well, I think the wiki explanation is complete BS considering nobles in real life nobles didn't fight supernatural demons, undead and ogres, plus I'm pretty sure that's just factually untrue since I know large game was reserved for nobles to hunt and I'm guessing they didn't chase down a deer and choke it to death, but oh well.

[pcw27]

http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/articles/war-archery-and-social-status.pdf

[Indirik]

That document you linked is research on archery as used in warfare, not archery tournaments. It does not cover any kind of tournament. (Though I admit I didn't read every single page.)

And yes, we all know that nobles used archery in hunting. No one denies they did.

Please find a historical example of an archery tournament for nobles. Something where, say, the Duke of York picked up a longbow and competed in an archery tournament. I don't know of any, but then again I've never done any kind of extensive search, either. If you can find one, then that adds some substantial weight to your request.

[LilWolf]

I'd have to side with realism being BS this time as far as actual game play enjoyment goes. Adding archery to tournament options isn't going to kill the game while it would add something to those player who like to command archery units etc.

[pcw27]

That document you linked is research on archery as used in warfare, not archery tournaments. It does not cover any kind of tournament. (Though I admit I didn't read every single page.)

And yes, we all know that nobles used archery in hunting. No one denies they did.

Please find a historical example of an archery tournament for nobles. Something where, say, the Duke of York picked up a longbow and competed in an archery tournament. I don't know of any, but then again I've never done any kind of extensive search, either. If you can find one, then that adds some substantial weight to your request.

From my source, describing the training of the Knights Hospitaller

"From later Statues and
regulations we learn that the military brethren had to  attend not less
than three afternoons a week for gymnastics, wrestling, drill, exercises15
in  arms, and shooting  with  the crossbow and there was a prize for
marksmanship every two months"

It may not have been a part of a tournament but they clearly held archery competitions.


http://www.zateev.net/ontarget/download/Sir%20Jon%20article.pdf

This also makes a few references to nobles participating in archery contests

[pcw27]

It's clearly true that some nobles did look down on archery, but clearly others practiced it and respected it. Allowing archery contests of some kind take place will actually make new role-play opportunities. One noble may sneer at archer contests while another insists on the virtues of the bow.

There is of course nothing requiring any lord to hold an archery contest and many may choose to refuse them outright. The noble's opinion of archers should be dictated by roleplay, not game mechanics.

[Indirik]

The game mechanics so not, in any way, dictate how your character should RP, or how you should treat people who lead archers.

But as I said before, if you want archery to be added to a tournament, then please find and cite historical references where nobles of high rank and status competed in actual archery tournaments. This subject comes up on a regular basis. And unless you can cite actual historical evidence, you're not going to change Tom's mind on this one. Which is why it's listed as a "Frequently Rejected" request.

[pcw27]

I posted two sources, one mentioning contests of archery held exclusively among knights and another mentioning nobles participating in open tournaments alongside commoners. Scroll up a couple posts.

Alternatively, how about just having an options "Host hunt" that utilizes an archery skill.

Actually that could be cool as logically only someone with a rural or badlands region could host a hunt. I suppose they might need a relevant workshop like "Game Keeper's hut".

[Penchant]

You gave 0 sources of tournaments, not just competitions, were done of higher ranking nobles. Obviously if the nobles competed with commoners they were not high ranking nobles as no lord or duke would compete with a bunch of commoners.

[pcw27]

You gave 0 sources of tournaments, not just competitions, were done of higher ranking nobles.

It doesn't have to be part of a regular tournament, it could be its one separate competition, but if you want to split hairs fine I'll find more sources.

Obviously if the nobles competed with commoners they were not high ranking nobles as no lord or duke would compete with a bunch of commoners.

"The local and regional nobles were often present at the competitions
and sometimes took part in the shooting.  Often the local noble would
lead off the competition by shooting first.  "

Judging by the terms "local and regional" I would assume this referes to the local knight and regional barons, viscounts ect. The rules of who a noble could associate with were not as cut and dry as Battle Master would have you believe.

[Lorgan]

Archery is for wimps. Tournaments are glorious events where real men test their deadly skills against eachother in bloody confrontations.

[LilWolf]

But as I said before, if you want archery to be added to a tournament, then please find and cite historical references where nobles of high rank and status competed in actual archery tournaments. This subject comes up on a regular basis. And unless you can cite actual historical evidence, you're not going to change Tom's mind on this one. Which is why it's listed as a "Frequently Rejected" request.

So what the opposing argument boils down to is "You can't find a real life example of it so we won't add it, nyah nyah nyah".

It's a game ffs. The fact archery as a tournament event keeps popping up is a clear indication some players would find it a nice addition. Would adding it somehow ruin the whole atmosphere of the game? I seriously doubt it. So what's the real reason other than an odd fixation for "it must have happened in real life for it to be added"? An utterly ridiculous standard that other feature requests sail on by without problems.

[pcw27]

http://www.medieval-spell.com/Medieval-Tournaments.html

This source claims archery was a tournament event in the Late Middle Ages.