No Zuma Thread

[Broose]

Honestly, the start of the war was a HUGE diplomatic failure on the part of Summerdale. From out of nowhere they jumped up, declared themselves to be the rightful heir of Springdale, and declared they intended to completely destroy the Libero Empire and take their land.

Hello! McFly!

Is it any wonder Morek stepped in to help their *ally* and *friend* from destruction at the hands of a realm that canceled an alliance and declared war with seemingly no warning or justification at all?

Sorry, Summerdale. I know what you were trying to do. A nice war would have been fun. But you completely blew it with your opening move. Morek did *exactly* what you should have expected they would do, and exactly what you would have done in their situation.

Nobody's denying that Morek was perfectly justified in going to war. To be fair, though, our opening move was made when we had eight nobles and figured Libero's victory wasn't just likely, it was a foregone conclusion (I'm not sure on the specifics of when our Queen started going on about destroying Libero entirely, actually, since most of us weren't very involved in the talks at all.)

Really, going like 3 months with almost zero letters being sent around tends to make you a little impatient. I think the vast majority of our activity during that period was seriously just orders to go kill monsters.

[Brant]

Honestly, the start of the war was a HUGE diplomatic failure on the part of Summerdale. From out of nowhere they jumped up, declared themselves to be the rightful heir of Springdale, and declared they intended to completely destroy the Libero Empire and take their land.

The first part, yes.  The second wasn't sudden, we claimed that when we founded our realm.  That last part is a lie, I think Morek jumped to that conclusion and publicized it.  We just said we'd take Springdale, not destroy Libero.

Morek did *exactly* what you should have expected they would do, and exactly what you would have done in their situation.

Keep in mind, when we planned this and started the war we had 8 nobles, Libero had twice that.  The idea that Morek would join to save them from destruction against a realm with half of Libero's and less than a third of Morek's strength was absurd, we wouldn't have planned on that.   At absolute worst, we planned for Morek to help Libero assault Mt. Black (however long we could have held out with large militia drops) then sit there guarding it while Libero and Summerdale squabbled over Torrent's Breath.  Anything more than that against an 8 noble realm would have been dishonorable.


People seem to think that getting 30 new Nobles = quadrupling your strength...   new nobles are limited in the soldiers they can recruit (by H/P), they come standard with crap units, and it takes a boatload of gold to equip fresh ones and on top of that after a couple weeks many will quit for one reason or another.   So yeah, more nobles might = more strength, but not for months afterwards.  Not to mention the nightmare of everyone wandering around trying to finding estates.    As it is now, if we can somehow pull a couple victories out of a hat and Morek has to recruit fresh troops, instead of using their well trained ones, then... yeah still no change.  We're fighting a losing war and have to seriously consider that our realm will be destroyed.  :P

[Sacha]

Well, last time dozens of new nobles popped up in the same realm within days from each other, during a war against an Astroist realm, it didn't go so over well... if I was an Astroist, I'd want to crush Summerdale quickly before the same !@#$ starts over again 8)

[Brant]

Hey!  They had "unlimited" gold going for them, and a nearby realm where they could join, get gold, recruit and abandon.   Got &%^*& tired of that in Summerdale back then.   :P

"Hello!  Welcome to Summerdale!  I'm the realm's mentor, here to guide you through your first days and ...  why are you moving to Storm's Keep?"

[vonGenf]

We just said we'd take Springdale, not destroy Libero.

So, just 95% of it then? How generous!  :D

[Brant]

11% is all we said...  Though how we would take that 11% without also taking the 77% that's on the way is beyond me.   But with only 8 nobles at the time who all already had lordships it was kinda a non-issue for planning out.   :P

[egamma]

Hey, we could take a few more nobles in D'Hara. Mostly fighting monsters in the Desert of Silhouettes, for now, but Kabrinskia may try to attack us and that could be interesting.

[Gustav Kuriga]

Hey, we could take a few more nobles in D'Hara. Mostly fighting monsters in the Desert of Silhouettes, for now, but Kabrinskia may try to attack us and that could be interesting.

Pfff, fat chance. We don't want to attack D'Hara.

[egamma]

Pfff, fat chance. We don't want to attack D'Hara.

You don't know your ruler at all, do you? You don't know that she was preaching without authorization in D'Hara, practically begging us to declare war on Kabrinskia so we could arrest her?

[Dante Silverfire]

You don't know your ruler at all, do you? You don't know that she was preaching without authorization in D'Hara, practically begging us to declare war on Kabrinskia so we could arrest her?

How does that have anything to do with Kabrinskia wanting to attack D'Hara?

Getting D'Hara to attack Kabrinskia is completely different from Kabrinskia wanting to attack D'Hara.

They both have completely different goals as well as end results.

[Vellos]

You don't know your ruler at all, do you? You don't know that she was preaching without authorization in D'Hara, practically begging us to declare war on Kabrinskia so we could arrest her?

And if D'Hara had declared war at that time, we might have been fighting SA, but not the Zuma... because Allison would have been prevented from getting to the Zuma.

[Perth]

And if D'Hara had declared war at that time, we might have been fighting SA, but not the Zuma... because Allison would have been prevented from getting to the Zuma.

Easy there, you mentioned the Unmentionables, might get this thread locked...

[Vellos]

Easy there, you mentioned the Unmentionables, might get this thread locked...

True, discussion of the Zuma is forbidden, I forgot.

[Arrakis]

SMA does not mean "staying on the sidelines and watch your neighbor grow until they could challenge you, because hey, maybe it will be more fun on an OOC level for the players on the other side". In fact, that is pretty much the inverse of SMA.

I was referring to this rule of SMA:
No powergaming. If the only reason you do something is game-mechanics, you should probably not do it.

Obviously, Nastrond allegiance change is done simply so that Morek can TO Summerdale's regions, which means the only reason to do it was game mechanics. If Orris really wanted to join Morek, why didn't he do it during his famous bug exploit? Instead, he first took his region to LE and then to Morek, clearly doing it for gaining another advantage in this war when that was suitable. Don't even want to say how little he cares about the concept of oaths.

[Indirik]

So file an SMA report.