Religion is missing something?

[De-Legro]

when you know some feature for rather long, new unexpected tweak brings nasty surprise:

arresting priests was normally bringing disturbance to region stats, and also that of surrounding regions.

knowing that, we prepared arrest by bringing region to top conditions first, but now completely different outcome occurs: with 20-25% followers in region of about 1400 it seems all of them took arms to protect priest (about 300 peasants in report) and attacked my veteran troop of 100 men, wounding 50 of them, while region stats are intact and priest is not arrested.

as it looked really odd, we tried few more times, with the same result, and it seems to be impossible to arrest priest.

this is major change as arresting priest was the only physical measure against his dealings, limited by many other factors as well: possible only against enemy realms, only on your lands etc.

moreover, how realistic is that peasants cause so large casualties to soldiers, not to mention that they remain intact.

making priest major pain in the ass, while being financially dependent as discussed in this post, only pushes more to direction of "duke brother's" game while others would tend to avoid all that stuff.

i don't understand what this change was supposed to bring.  weeding out remaining low percent of followers is incredibly harder, and without ability of military troops to interfere, that could end in not so funny game of two duke's brothers preaching one against another eternally, while lord, army and everybody else helplessly look at it. ok, infiltrator can risk his life to stop that process for two days.

generally, why are there so many changes that bring only annoyance, never something positive.

You were serious THAT worried about a hit to region stats that is temporary at best? I think you need to chill and stop playing BM like it is some sort of numbers game.

[Chenier]

Temples are not so easily destroyed, so much as looted and reduced in size. A level 6 temple would take three full days of looting twice a day to destroy, assuming you are successful every time, and the temple is not guarded. Given that they can be built instantly, I don't think that making you take three days to tear one down is all that unreasonable.

You are correct, I think, in that looting temples doesn't cause unrest among the peasantry. Perhaps it should, based on the number of followers. Looting and burning temples should probably cause the same effects as arresting priests. After all, sacking and closing temples using the lord's options does cause unrest. Quite a lot of it.

A level a turn is quite fast, imo, considering some of these levels cost thousands of gold per shot. Not saying "too fast", just saying quite fast.

[Stue (DC)]

You were serious THAT worried about a hit to region stats that is temporary at best? I think you need to chill and stop playing BM like it is some sort of numbers game.

than you should possibly write me exactly how i am to play and i will obey....

if you wrote my post you would at least note that i mentioned how arresting priest sometimes turn region with low stats to inevitable fall.

as regards to "numbers", when you attend to them at least slightly you will easily notice that bm is not overburdened with details and micromanagement, so those small details which exist do not spend much of time, while get many people interested and involved.

actually as we are talking about slight tweaks here, i don't understand where is your interest within discussion if you despise any specific things in bm.

if you prefer personal attacks and flame, there is separate board with such focus, probably. this is discussion about tweaks, not about our personalities, and any useful discussion depends firstly on mutual respect.

[De-Legro]

Apologies if my post came across as an attack. I'm Australian and we have a long tradition of "taking the mickey". It doesn't always come across the best in the written form. Maybe I should add some more  :) to each post.

[Stue (DC)]

well, i can understand that, i have even more problems when i want to weight style of my english  :o

[Aldwoni]

What about take away the option to "ignore" other religions.
If they only can except each other as Variant, misguided and evil, it could create more game. As you need to have need to have a reason why an religion is a variant or misguided or evil.
If needed you could make another option instead of ignore called "unkown"
as soon as a priest or elder meets an priest of an "unkown" religion the player has a week the time to change the view to variant or misguided and else it will be changed to evil.

another suggestion:
When a priest/elder is in a level 3 temple, he can allow to arrest evil priests in this region.(each member of this faith then can arrest evil priests(the region lord can be against it and tell his militia/knights to arrest nobles who arrest priests. Then you also can add that militia can disobey the orders if a priest(with enough influence) tells them)

[Chenier]

What about take away the option to "ignore" other religions.
If they only can except each other as Variant, misguided and evil, it could create more game. As you need to have need to have a reason why an religion is a variant or misguided or evil.
If needed you could make another option instead of ignore called "unkown"
as soon as a priest or elder meets an priest of an "unkown" religion the player has a week the time to change the view to variant or misguided and else it will be changed to evil.

another suggestion:
When a priest/elder is in a level 3 temple, he can allow to arrest evil priests in this region.(each member of this faith then can arrest evil priests(the region lord can be against it and tell his militia/knights to arrest nobles who arrest priests. Then you also can add that militia can disobey the orders if a priest(with enough influence) tells them)

Complicated and useless, if you ask me. Verdis Elementum, notably, has every other faith on ignore. If this option is taken away, we'll simply have them all put on misguided and continue ignoring them. What would change? Nothing, pretty much. If our gods don't demand that we convert every infidel to our way, why would we bother making a big fuss with the unbelievers? We know we are right but don't really care if others are wrong. Who knows, they might just have whacky ways of worshiping the same gods we do without anyone realizing it. If what they were doing was evil, then the gods would punish them.

[Stormcrow]

First of all, in my humble opinion religion doesn't miss a thing except players willing to make it work. If a religion fails it is the responsibility of the ones running it. We have several religions that quite obviously show that it works if some energy is put into its growth. That is really all that makes the difference between a successful religion and a failure.

Concerning the tools of the priests and especially the RTO. I did it with one of my priests FOUR times now. I never failed and I always was able to hold the region on my own. So, if you tried and failed that was bad luck and I am sorry but it isn't like this in general or perhaps I was just very, very lucky but I doubt that.

The power of religion. Don't get me started about Sanguis Astroism. I am convinced that SA has more power in Dwilight than any single realm on the continent. If you ask me SA controls 3 + 2 half realms. Yes the realms are "free" but if the Prophet calls there is no question, they will follow. Reason? RP in my opinion, no game mechanics at all. In Corsanctum you can't even become a Lord if you are not of the Faith. How much power needs a religion to be recognized as a power to reckon with?

I said it in the beginning and I say it again. Most religions need more involved players and not more tweaks. That would help tremendously but it is nothing that can be forced.

[Galvez]

First of all, in my humble opinion religion doesn't miss a thing except players willing to make it work.

Amen to that.

[Chenier]

Amen to that.

While I disagree, I do believe it is a very important factor.

[Norrel]

Forget that separation of church and state stuff. I want more religions involved in more stuff. I want official state religions. I want realms to use their militarily power to export their faith to other realms. I want religions to be telling realms what to do.

This a billion times. I am so annoyed with the whole separation of church and state thing. Its not fitting for the period, its not fun, and its not even much more practical in the first place. IMHO, state religions should be coded into the game. Not only would it make things more interesting and make religions more relevant, it would do cool things for monarchies and theocracies. I think a potential appointment system for the ruler where a religion (or the highest-ranking person in that religion) explicitly elects and chooses the ruler would be really interesting, as well as more fitting to what real life was like.

[Perth]

Until there are real coded, in-game benefits and consequences to religious systems (in some way, I am not sure what way) people will fail to care about religions and put them on the back burner.

[egamma]

Until there are real coded, in-game benefits and consequences to religious systems (in some way, I am not sure what way) people will fail to care about religions and put them on the back burner.

Easiest change would be a system to causes increasing levels of unrest, the longer the region lord fails to join the dominant religion of the people, or at least A religion. No more atheist/agnostic region lords.

[vonGenf]

Easiest change would be a system to causes increasing levels of unrest, the longer the region lord fails to join the dominant religion of the people, or at least A religion. No more atheist/agnostic region lords.

Does that not already happen? The "The local Lord does not believe in the majority faith" message?

[Chenier]

Easiest change would be a system to causes increasing levels of unrest, the longer the region lord fails to join the dominant religion of the people, or at least A religion. No more atheist/agnostic region lords.

Lords should be dictating religion to their serfs, not the other way around.

If you have this, new religions will never be able to grow because any lord who opts out of the stale old national religion will have his region revolt on him.

And sometimes, there is a reason for not being part of an IG religion. It's not always because of atheism/agnosticism.