Author Topic: Religion is missing something?  (Read 77750 times)

Indirik

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Re: Religion is missing something?
« Reply #45: May 24, 2011, 02:57:58 PM »
All religions have desire to dominate and convert everyone to their faith, declaring that or not.

I agree with the general idea of this. I wouldn't say that everyone wants to "dominate", because I don't think that "dominate" is always quite the right word. But yes, religions want to convert everyone to believe the way they do.

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I believe people are disinterested for religion because religion is made powerless.

I disagree. And I think the people that play the Church of Ibladesh would probably disagree. And the Flow of the Balance. (And the people fighting them, too!) And, of course, Sanguis Astroism.

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Temple and shrine upkeep feature disabled opportunity for religion to have some net positive earning, making religions dependent on outside fundings, so they are mostly made mere decorations for those who hold all power anyhow.

If religions had the power to have a net positive income, then they would become another tool of the state. They would be just another revenue stream for the realm-based war machine. The need to have powerful patrons is definitely intentional.

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That only limited possibilities fto create interesting conflicts, as everything is dependant on heavy funding, and funding is in hands of few, who even do not compete each other.

If you want to have big temples, support lots of followers, and have the big power that comes with it, then you have to have the gold to support it. And you're not going to get that gold by asking farmers and blacksmiths to hand over 10% of their meager incomes. You get the rich, powerful nobles to hand over 10% of *their* incomes.

Power, and the organization and labor that comes with it and that it requires, costs money.

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in real middle age, we could for instance say that otoman military had ruthless soldiers, who had never cared so much for funding as west european middle age had.

similar to mongol, huns, etc.

So the mongols, huns, etc., never got a single coin in pay, at all? Never had someone give them a sword/bow and some armor or clothes? Not even through looting the conquered lands?

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in bm, all power is currently dependent on funding, military cannot do anything without funding, religion cannot, even there is very little way how any kind of diligent work and dedication can compensate lack of funds, which is pity.

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currently, diplomats are also given one single feature where priests have monopoly, and that is influencing peasants, so i daresay religion is made futile by design.

I thought you wanted diversity, and multiple paths to the same ends? Now when you have it, you say that having one makes the other invalid.

However, these two abilities are a bit different. Priests pay a cost in followers, diplomats in gold. Priests also have a wider range of options, while diplomats only affect sympathy.

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even if some religion stories could have been interestingly developed within religions books and roleplays, so few people are interested as there is little or no effect on mundane world.

If people aren't interested in what is intended to be an RP heavy mode of play, then we can't force them to be interested. All you'll get is a mouthing of the required phrases to meet the minimum requirements, while they move on and do whatever they wanted to do in the first place. (Interestingly enough, this is what you can claim many people do with real world religions, too. So maybe this would make us more realistic.)

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the only "cool" feature that stayed is RTO, but RTO is rather harsh activities, and gives no opportunity for religions to act behind the scene, with silent, almost invisible influence, which could be the situation, if religions could be able to earn their own funds to at least some extent.

RTO and auto da fe are the two most visible, and powerful, of a priests abilities. They are not the only two. The ability to calm population, cause unrest, and influence the commoner's thoughts are also powerful as well, when properly used. All of these can be used to gain influence with the realm, and with the other faithful.

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religion for cities balance is also missing. duke can either use religion as his own profane tool, which is mostly not interesting for anyone outside his small circle, otherwise duke can have only troubles with religion,

That is simply ridiculous. A duke that participates in his religion, and has his region converted to his own faith, or a significant part of it, will not suffer any problems from religion. (And, actually, so long as the peasants do not follow some *other* organized religion, he won't have any problems then, either.) Nor is this a "profane tool". Didn't you say at the start that everyone who is in a religion wants to convert everyone to his own faith? How is this profane? You *can* use it for profane purposes. But that doesn't mean you *will* use it that way.

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...and vast majority of dukes are pagans, which is really unrealistic.

Stop making baseless, unsubstantiated claims. A quick survey of BT shows that 2/3rds of the dukes of cities follow an established, in-game religion.

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dukes (and all region lords) should be made dependent on religions, to some extent, for instance pagan peasants should make much more troubles than peasants who belong to any religion, so region lords should decide whehther to allow domination of one faith or to take care that several faiths are balanced in their regions rather than simply doing absolutely nothing besides disallowing any preaching.

every single group of mediaval peasants were part of some religions, and it is simply not so ok that pagan peasants are so cooperative and productive in regions.

So just because a peasant doesn't follow an "officially established" faith, they are a lazy, unruly, unproductive mob that hates the establishment? I could perhaps see the numbers of pagans being added to the number of peasants that "are upset that their lord doesn't agree with their faith". Unless the lord himself is a "pagan". But to just have "pagan" peasants be unruly mobs makes no sense.

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different competing powers and groups should be given different powers to be forced to cooperate. given all practicable powers to one group (region lords) simply allows them to not care for others, and that stalls the whole game world.

Perhaps you'd like to elaborate on this? What type of balancing powers would you like to see?
« Last Edit: May 24, 2011, 06:12:49 PM by Indirik »
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