Luria

[Solari]

Luria vehemently denies any contention that its claim on D'Hara is spurious.

;D

(Actually, I was a little surprised when I first heard about it, too; I can't take credit, but I'm not sure whether it was Arundel, Solari, ^ban^, or some combination...)

Bedwyr and before, IIRC. Like the many other evil schemes attributed to me, I am only a passenger on this crazy train. Enjoying the ride, though.   :D

[Chenier]

(ridiculous fallacious arguments)
D'Hara wasn't a founding realm of Dwilight. So, while Luria's claims have descended from Monarch to Monarch through the Lurian Empire, D'Hara can't claim the same.

Luria Nova wasn't around either. Nor was the "Lurian Empire". Fact is, a bunch of realms have succeeded each other in "Lurian" lands, much more so than D'Hara, which is the direct successor to Shadovar, the secession really being just a civil war as the millions the Lurias have had. If D'Hara has no claims from Shadovar, then Luria Nova has no claims from Pian en Luries. To say anything else is extreme hypocrisy.

In addition, much of D'Hara was annexed from Melodia, which was never in the slightest Lurian. Almost all of D'Hara was never Lurian in any way.

[Dante Silverfire]

If D'Hara has no claims from Shadovar, then Luria Nova has no claims from Pian en Luries. To say anything else is extreme hypocrisy.

D'Hara ABSOLUTELY has claims from Shadovar.

What you seem to have forgotten is that Shadovar was a colony of Pian en Luries. Therefore, Shadovar's claims are inherently Lurian.

Luria Nova wasn't around either. Nor was the "Lurian Empire". Fact is, a bunch of realms have succeeded each other in "Lurian" lands, much more so than D'Hara, which is the direct successor to Shadovar, the secession really being just a civil war as the millions the Lurias have had.

The first Lurian Empire was created during the days of Pian en Luries. Each subsequent monarch of the Lurian realms has inherited all claims of the Lurian realms as case in point in winnings of their successful rebellions and successions. Most of this is clearly roleplayed. Such that our current Monarch is the designated Queen of Luria Vesperi and Luria Nova. She has designated leadership of Pian en Luries back to its former ruler, Duchess Alanna. Queen Alice then has all old claims of the Lurian realms either directly or through those who have sworn fealty to her.

Finally, as to the Shadovar - D'Haran conflict. One of the gripes is that the foundation of D'Hara was a clear "loss" of control of the isles from Lurian leadership to non-Lurian leadership. Thus, the simple foundation of D'Hara was an attack upon Lurian sovereignty of the isles as the creation of D'Hara destroyed a Lurian colony.

[Meneldur]

D'Hara ABSOLUTELY has claims from Shadovar.

What you seem to have forgotten is that Shadovar was a colony of Pian en Luries. Therefore, Shadovar's claims are inherently Lurian.

The question is whether because Shadovar was a colony of Pain en Luries the claims revert back to Luria or whether they pass to D'Hara as the legitimate successor state. So while it's understandable where the current Lurian claim comes from, it's a far stretch from being the only valid interpretation.

[Feylonis]

Clearly, the gods will favor the one with the right claim. Through war, of course.

[Dante Silverfire]

The question is whether because Shadovar was a colony of Pain en Luries the claims revert back to Luria or whether they pass to D'Hara as the legitimate successor state. So while it's understandable where the current Lurian claim comes from, it's a far stretch from being the only valid interpretation.

I never said that Luria's claim to the isles is uncontested. The only thing I am trying to assert is that Luria has a legitimate means to make such a claim. If D'Hara wants to contest it, through much the same argument that Luria would make against them, they can, but essentially it comes down to being able to assert one's claim through war against the other. Luria has never been forced to formally cede that claim to another realm, because Luria has never lost a war to a non-lurian entity.

So only war can really settle the question.

[Arundel]

I'm going to chime in here because why not?

2008-03-11 Pian en Luries - Alanna Anaris elected queen.
2008-03-16 Everguard - Fisc Arylon elected High King
2008-03-16 Madina - City of Paisly taken over.
2008-03-25 Pian en Luries - City of Port Nebel taken over.

2008-04-15 Pian en Luries - Duke Edelstein Greneburie secedes the Duchy of Port Nebel forming the Tyranny of Shadovar.

2008-09-16 Shadovar - Duchess Katayanna Ogren secedes the city of Port Raviel to form the realm of D'Hara.

So we can reasonably assume/claim that Shadovar controlled the Tomb islands at the time of D'Hara's foundation (which was created by a Lurian, no less. Check Katayanna's page if you wanna make sure.) I understand they had monster problems and lost some territories around Nebel, but not to Melodia.

Alanna was Queen of Pian en Luries when Edelstein created the colony of Shadovar. Since it was a sanctioned colony by Pian en Luries, Alanna got a claim. That's how it works. If my realm takes over some land, and you secede that land with permission to make a colony, I still get a claim.

Guess what guys? Alanna's alive. That's Luria's claim Luria will press her claim. It's not about inheritors, the realm of PeL, or anything like that. We've got the first person to send another person out there. Nothing was there (including people with claims) beforehand.

Also

2008-08-04 Pian en Luries - Completes successful colony takeover of Qubel Lighthouse to form Porto Lancia.

Alanna's got that covered to.

But yeah, war will decide the victor. Yay!

[Penchant]

Anyone else still wondering how a blind woman is going to duel?

Yes.

[Madigan]

Yes.

I'm hoping its an insane twist, where Alice was never blind and had faked blinding herself for just such an occasion.

Now that would be a Lurian move.

[Shizzle]

Nah, according to RP she's actually blind.
A man of progressing age who has fainted for no reason against a young lass who can't see. Neither of them with substantial swordfighting skill. Will be interesting :)

I do hope Skyn not to totally bite the dust, then again, his death would relieve him of the shame, I guess.

Regarding the other discussion: claims are so overrated, especially between enemies. If Luria thinks it's cause is just, declare war on D'Hara, send out a reason to other Rulers and see who backs you up. And if foreign support is irrelevant, so are claims.

[JeVondair]

if foreign support is irrelevant, so are claims.

[Solari]

If D'Hara has no claims from Shadovar, then Luria Nova has no claims from Pian en Luries. To say anything else is extreme hypocrisy.

Well of course it's hypocrisy. You do understand that all folks are doing is laying out the ridiculously complicated rationale that some characters have for their claims, right? Nothing more.

[Ironsides]

Bowie put a hundred gold bet on Queen Alice to win. Any takers?

[JeVondair]

Rynn and Khari are on their way to visit him...before the end.

[Arundel]

Who, Skyn?