Upward Slope for Newcomers to do stuff.

[Norrel]

As someone who recently introduced a friend to the game who promptly left, I can easily say that these fairly arbitrary ceilings don't do very much. Not just for classes, but for positions and such. It's already hard enough for them to get integrated because of unavoidable social factors, I don't really see why something like this is necessary. Players with any initiative (aka the ones we want) are the ones getting most hurt by these mechanics. If some new player doesn't find themselves satisfied with the war game, maybe they'd like to get into a more in-depth RP/political role as a priest. Who're we to say "no, you have to trudge through an aspect of the game you don't like" or "you have to pause this character in a peaceful but fun realm before you can try anything cool out"?

[Geronus]

It's not an argument. It's a discussion and explanation.

Eh, it's still you explaining why he's wrong. Which makes it more of an argument, really, whether you think of it that way or not. I think he has a point we should consider. After all, he's the actual new player. We've all been here for years and have very likely forgotten what it's really like to be in his shoes. Heck, in some ways we don't even have any basis to know since the game has changed in many ways since we started (for some of us more than others  )

[Velax]

I really can't see any harm in lifting the restrictions on some classes (or making them time-based if lifting them entirely isn't an option). If someone wants to make a courtier or a priest or a diplomat straight off, what's the harm? To make sure new players know about these classes before they try them out? Well, no offense, but this game teaches you pretty much nothing about the mechanics of classes other than the one you're currently playing (and even then, sometimes not a lot. How many players who've just made their first Hero know they can tell tales or recruit volunteers, given those actions only appear a very small amount of the time?).

I've been playing this game for nearly two years, and another two years the first time round, yet I know pretty much nothing about the mechanics of the diplomat classes or the options available to it, because I've never played one. I knew very little about the options available to priests until recently, until I asked here on the forums. And that's just it. This game teaches you buggar all about stuff like that. You learn from other players. And if someone really, really wants to be a priest, they'll likely ask someone about the details and find out details that way. Having these restrictions just prevents them from doing what they want to do, even after they have some information on the class they want to be.

And, to be honest, telling someone to pause a character in a realm they might really like, but is peaceful, is just not the way to go about increasing player retention.

[egamma]

The game doesn't tell you from what I've seen what you need for each class, neither does the wiki.

I'm not sure if this is still accurate:
http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Changing_Classes

Warrior: no requirements, default class
Courtier: Honor needed: 20 Prestige needed: 5
Priest: be a full member of a religion and in a region with a Level 3+ temple of your religion
Advy: no requirements. to become a warrior, 3 recommendations, 5 prestige, ? honor

Cavalier:  50 Honor, 20 Prestige, 61 days in realm.
Mentor: 16 Honour and 6 Prestige required.
Trader: 7 days in realm.
Infiltrator: 50 Honour and 10 Prestige required.
Hero: 15 Honour and 6 Prestige required.

[Colin Ealdwine]

I'm not sure if this is still accurate

It's the "I'm not sure if this is accurate part" that worries me. You have to dig into the old class system to find it, when you're redirected to "Class" instead, for the new system.

[Geronus]

It's the "I'm not sure if this is accurate part" that worries me. You have to dig into the old class system to find it, when you're redirected to "Class" instead, for the new system.

Battlemaster has always had maddeningly vague (or non-existent) documentation concerning most of the major mechanics of the game, which I believe is intentional. Information on the wiki is not always up to date, either.

The Helpline board (including the Newbie sub-board) is an excellent place to get answers to your questions should you have any (which I assume you do).

[Colin Ealdwine]

Surprisingly I ask all my questions and get them answered. I know of all the boards, I've seen all the pages people refer to. Problem is, most people probably won't be as resourceful.

[JPierreD]

Priest: be a full member of a religion and in a region with a Level 3+ temple of your religion

I'm pretty sure there is also an H/P requirement as well.

Cavalier:  50 Honor, 20 Prestige, 61 days in realm.

Felicie has 65 Honor, 26 Prestige (with a +6 prestige unique) and 228 days in the realm.
However it says that "Cavalier - your low rank would be unbefitting of this class."

Trader: 7 days in realm.

This also has an H/P requirement.

[egamma]

I'm pretty sure there is also an H/P requirement as well.

Well, Colin can tell us for sure, when he finds it out.

Felicie has 65 Honor, 26 Prestige (with a +6 prestige unique) and 228 days in the realm.
However it says that "Cavalier - your low rank would be unbefitting of this class."

Perhaps your unique is causing a calculation problem?
Gundelle has 65/28/607 and I just switched her to Cavalier.
Gaston has 52/26/362 also has the ability to switch.

This also has an H/P requirement.

Since when? I really don't think so. Colin can verify this one for us as well, although he'll have to check before the priest class switch.

[Anaris]

I'm pretty sure there is also an H/P requirement as well.

20 honour.

Felicie has 65 Honor, 26 Prestige (with a +6 prestige unique) and 228 days in the realm.
However it says that "Cavalier - your low rank would be unbefitting of this class."

Yes, and the way this is worded is quite deliberate.

Cavalier - your low rank would be unbefitting of this class.

This also has an H/P requirement.

This actually has only an H/P requirement: 5 prestige, 25 honour.

[fodder]

funny thing about rank... it's bugged.

felicie is ranked as noble.. when she's been a knight for ages

[Bael]

Yes, and the way this is worded is quite deliberate.

Sounds like another thing that isn't properly explained and the player has to try figure out on their own.

[Anaris]

Sounds like another thing that isn't properly explained and the player has to try figure out on their own.

It's explained pretty clearly in the message. You just have to be paying attention, and not making unfounded assumptions.

Here, clearly, egamma looked at the message, saw "your <something> is too low", saw that JPierreD's honour and prestige were probably high enough, and jumped to the conclusion that it was a bug, rather than rereading the message and noticing that it refers to something that our characters actually have, that can be high or low.

So...yes, you have to figure it out on your own, but the information is all there for you. You just have to be willing to read carefully and think before jumping to conclusions.

(Granted, there is still a bug in rank, due to mismatch between the old and new systems. However, the rank displayed is the rank used for calculation, so despite the fact that it's wrong, it still gives you enough information to figure out why he can't change.)

[Shizzle]

I tend to agree as well. In the case of the Priest, newbies cannot really do that much wrong without influence/background info so why not let them burn their fingers?

@Colin: sorry Fissoa didn't offer the combat you're looking for Perhaps it would have been a better option to change realms with Colin instead of creating a new character, though. You could have joined Solaria when we passed through. I was looking forward to having a travel compagnion again, this time with the roles reversed (Skyndarbau once travelled to D'Hara with his mentor when I just started out). I might be in touch with your new character later.

[Colin Ealdwine]

Perhaps, but the amount of time it would take to reach it was long enough I did not feel the desire to do so. It's less combat, and more anything interesting.