Author Topic: War please.  (Read 86080 times)

Vellos

  • Honourable King
  • *****
  • Posts: 3736
  • Stodgy Old Man in Training
    • View Profile
Re: War please.
« Reply #270: July 04, 2012, 03:11:19 AM »
That's interesting, in my experience it was only ever Madina who were rude and uncouth, Aurvandil went to great lengths to be exaggeratedly polite when the situation called for it, and it was only ever Madina that kept trying to call us out for post battle spitting contests.

As far as Moot observers ever saw, Madinans typically made rational arguments (and Madinans were civilized enough to send real delegates to the Moot, while Aurvandil ignored us). Madinans seemed to want us to be their friends; Aurvandil just insulted the Moot's delegate repeatedly when he arrived (that being Hireshmont). I don't know what insults were flung back and forth; but from Moot observers' perspective: Madina cared about the opinions of nobles abroad, cared about their reputation, cared about responding to arguments with rational arguments, cared about negotiation– Aurvandil did not display any of these. For a diplomacy-obsessed group like the Moot, Aurvandil's aloofness is offensive. Like the US invasion of Iraq from the perspective of most of Europe, for example.

As for "expansionist" do you mean when we were forced to expand over Madina because Madina refused to surrender, or accept unconditional peace?

Yes. ICly, none of the Moot (or at least very few of them) were ever aware that Madina was offered any reasonable peace terms. OOCly, I didn't even ever know that. I am almost sure I remember Aurvandil demanding their total, unconditional surrender during battles in Fatmilak; but maybe I'm wrong. But beyond that, the map of Orvandeaux Candielia was exceptionally offensive to the Moot, as well as many of Mendicant's claims to absolutist sovereignty. Mendicant's language about himself is, by and large, unnacceptable to the Moot, as it implies claims which we would contest. And also...

As for aggressive, do you mean after Madina declared they would purge us from existence and execute our government and nobles, whereas Aurvandil would repeatedly offer peace to Madina, and to show mercy to their nobles? Which we did regardless of whether or not they accept.

Again, that's not how it looked to the outside world. If by "mercy" you mean demanding that they all surrender their autonomy, destroy their culture, and pay obeisance to Mendicant– that is not very impressive mercy. Maybe our perception was false; but Aurvandil never bothered to work on its friendships abroad. Indeed, it usually seemed like you worked very, very hard to pointedly offend every Moot official you talked to, even the ones ya'll supposedly liked or respected.

Aurvandil has planned for that, sort of, we can always fight what new realm we create in Madina City.

And this. We've been hearing about this for a while. You've had quite a few opportunities. But it hasn't happened. Most who know about it in the Moot have, I believe, concluded it was always a lie Mendicant was using to make his grasp for more personal power appear less dangerous.
"A neutral humanism is either a pedantic artifice or a prologue to the inhuman." - George Steiner