Author Topic: War please.  (Read 85864 times)

Vellos

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Re: War please.
« Reply #270: July 04, 2012, 04:16:23 AM »
Oh, that nonsense, that was Aurvandil saying "Yeah, we're not going to debase ourselves spinning tall tales and trying to win favour by verbally sucking you/ourself off for attention". Which, in our perspective is showing a lot more respect to the Veinsormoot delegates, we don't lube them up with bull!@#$ basically. That is all it was.

You're a medieval noble for cryin' out loud. This is why the Moot sees Aurvandil as uncivilized. Because you are incompetent at diplomacy, but excessive in violence. More like monster-spawns than men. "Your perspective" doesn't matter in diplomacy; at least not in isolation. The Moot has clearly defined, and quite obvious, expectations and ways of doing things. You can ignore them, certainly: brashly ignoring the social norms of your neighbors is uncouth and barbarous (in fact, I would argue that's the precise definition of barbarism, but that's just etymological quibbling). You can do that if you want. But just fess up to the fact that you're an uncivilized barbarian. There are lots of them in BM. I'm looking at you, Norland/BoM. It's the simultaneous pretensions at high culture with the actuality of rapacious tyranny that is bothersome.

When Hireshmont came to Aurvandil, the Moot was considering military intervention in the war. On which side was not determined, but the Moot was leaning towards intervention on behalf of Aurvandil. Aurvandil's conduct turned the tide towards a supporting Madina; now, we detested Madina too much to do anything about it, so you didn't really suffer too much for it, but diplomacy isn't just bull!@#$, either in RL or BM. In RL, many countries have believed that: some have gotten away with it (North Korea, arguably the US), while others have not (Iraq, Libya, Iran quite recently with serious sanctions, possibly Syria in the near future).

Well, why would Aurvandil keep the Veinsormoot in the loop? The Veinsormoot never asked, and it would just seem like he was seeking their approval or attention by constantly pestering them with letters, if the Veinsormoot were interested, they would have asked simply. Mendicant made it clear he's a minimalist on foreign relations, but at the same time he's never refused to answer questions, or reply to letters sent to him, the option was always there for the Veinsormoot to speak to him. Also, what exactly was offensive about his claims to absolute sovereignty? And even more importantly, why does the Veinsormoot consider their own opinion on that important and relevant enough to pass judgement on the matter?

And then you turn around and say this, which is full of falsehoods. The Moot sent 3 separate delegations to Aurvandil. 2 were just ignored flat out. Most messages to Mendicant were greeted with the same, "We're not talking to you, but let me declare my Right to Rule the World, and insult your system of government a few times." As for why you would want the Moot in the loop: maybe there's no reason. Perhaps Aurvandil is truly powerful enough that you genuinely do not need, and will never need, allies. Maybe. But unless Aurvandil changes its ways, you'd better hope that remains true forever: because you're not winning many friends. Again, the US parallels are uncanny.

Claims to absolute sovereignty over the continent of Anhangphalia (which is almost an exact quote), over all the Orvandeaux (which your royal cartogrophers have including several Moot-controlled regions), and quite a few other specific titles mentioned at various times, all indicate claims on Moot territory. Given your imperialist rhetoric and apparent take-no-prisoners, war-to-destruction mentality, as well as the long and glorious Saxon history of violence, the logical leap is an easy one to make.

Still, it is amazing to me how Aurvandil has turned on the only people who ever tried to help them. Realms like Fissoa that actually sent armies to fight Aurvandil get ignored, while Barca, a realm that actively lobbied for Aurvandil and ceded lands to you, gets attacked. The power block that saved your ass when you were weak gets disparaged, and is repaid for practically guaranteeing you a stable, peacable backyard with invasion. Crazy.
"A neutral humanism is either a pedantic artifice or a prologue to the inhuman." - George Steiner