Author Topic: War please.  (Read 86787 times)

Vellos

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Re: War please.
« Reply #150: June 30, 2012, 02:55:54 AM »
Yeah that didn't happen.

Then I reiterate, out of curiosity:

I'm just curious on an OOC basis what kind of reforms you had in mind. Demands for internal reforms in BM have generally boiled down to 3 things that I know of: changes of government style (becoming a theocracy, or republic, or monarchy, etc), changes of ruler/council members (create a puppet state), banishment of nobles. I'm hard pressed to think of other internal changes that have been demanded.

OOCly, what did you think they could even hypothetically have offered you?
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Allomere

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Re: War please.
« Reply #151: June 30, 2012, 03:06:50 AM »
You sent a Galvez as a negotiator, and didn't expect it to result in war?

That's like throwing a rock into the air and not expecting it to fall back to the ground.

Well he sort of just threw a rock into the air and hit Mendicant on the head with it.
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NoblesseChevaleresque

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Re: War please.
« Reply #152: June 30, 2012, 03:11:08 AM »
Well, interestingly none of the reforms I had in mind were the three you stated as most common. Barca is evidently enamoured with their Republic, for whatever insane reason that is, so Mendicant rather decided it would be a bad idea to try and force them to change, since they wouldn't accept, and making them a Monarchy, whilst still being tyrannical and corrupt would only exacerbate the problem. For banishing nobles, well of all the nobles mentioned to Mendicant, it would require banishing quite a few, since there were no clear ring leaders, also unpreferable. For changing members of the government, well that would be a pointless, temporary measure since Barca is a Republic, one that doesn't tackle the actual problems but instead is a token gesture that ultimately achieves nothing.

So in lieu of the three most obvious game mechanic supported options, we would have to choose largely player driven ones. Firstly, legal reforms to how Barca is run, and new laws enforced to prevent new occurrences of corruption and tyranny, secondly, an investigation and trial into the bounties Barca levies against its own nobles for political disputes, and thirdly, putting an end to clique mentality of the "old guard" as Julius put it, which saw newer nobles ostracised as troublemakers and traitors and had other ramifications to life in Barca.

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Re: War please.
« Reply #153: June 30, 2012, 03:53:37 AM »
Well, interestingly none of the reforms I had in mind were the three you stated as most common. Barca is evidently enamoured with their Republic, for whatever insane reason that is, so Mendicant rather decided it would be a bad idea to try and force them to change, since they wouldn't accept, and making them a Monarchy, whilst still being tyrannical and corrupt would only exacerbate the problem. For banishing nobles, well of all the nobles mentioned to Mendicant, it would require banishing quite a few, since there were no clear ring leaders, also unpreferable. For changing members of the government, well that would be a pointless, temporary measure since Barca is a Republic, one that doesn't tackle the actual problems but instead is a token gesture that ultimately achieves nothing.

So in lieu of the three most obvious game mechanic supported options, we would have to choose largely player driven ones. Firstly, legal reforms to how Barca is run, and new laws enforced to prevent new occurrences of corruption and tyranny, secondly, an investigation and trial into the bounties Barca levies against its own nobles for political disputes, and thirdly, putting an end to clique mentality of the "old guard" as Julius put it, which saw newer nobles ostracised as troublemakers and traitors and had other ramifications to life in Barca.

So...Barca should ban all nobles who would stand up to Aurvrandil, leaving a puppet state in its place with too few nobles to withstand the army of Aurvrandil?

Sacha

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Re: War please.
« Reply #154: June 30, 2012, 04:16:35 AM »
Isn't that the hope of most ambitious realms? ;)

NoblesseChevaleresque

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Re: War please.
« Reply #155: June 30, 2012, 05:19:03 AM »
So...Barca should ban all nobles who would stand up to Aurvrandil, leaving a puppet state in its place with too few nobles to withstand the army of Aurvrandil?

Well, they could. But that would only provoke Aurvandil further in war, I mean that would just be the height of cowardly surrendering. We would have to fight for the honour of the nobles they unjustly banned in our name. Aurvandil has respect for nobles who will fight us, but not for nobles who would ban members of their realm for daring to in some sort of slimy obsequious begging for mercy.

Uzamaki

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Re: War please.
« Reply #156: June 30, 2012, 05:20:50 AM »
Well, they could. But that would only provoke Aurvandil further in war, I mean that would just be the height of cowardly surrendering. We would have to fight for the honour of the nobles they unjustly banned in our name. Aurvandil has respect for nobles who will fight us, but not for nobles who would ban members of their realm for daring to in some sort of slimy obsequious begging for mercy.

So Aurvandil was going to war Barca no matter what?  :P

Dante Silverfire

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Re: War please.
« Reply #157: June 30, 2012, 05:21:31 AM »
Well, they could. But that would only provoke Aurvandil further in war, I mean that would just be the height of cowardly surrendering. We would have to fight for the honour of the nobles they unjustly banned in our name. Aurvandil has respect for nobles who will fight us, but not for nobles who would ban members of their realm for daring to in some sort of slimy obsequious begging for mercy.

Just so we're clear:

Casus belli: We're gonna do whatever we want.
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Vellos

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Re: War please.
« Reply #158: June 30, 2012, 06:50:31 AM »
Just so we're clear:

Casus belli: We're gonna do whatever we want.

That's kinda what I'm getting.

"We're attacking you because we didn't get what we want. But if we got what we wanted, we'd attack you because we got it too easily."
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Velax

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Re: War please.
« Reply #159: June 30, 2012, 08:46:57 AM »
Look, their reasons for war are obviously stupid. "We took three regions from you and won't give them back until you fix what we say is wrong with your realm! What? You don't want to? ATTAAAAAAAACK!"

But at the same time, isn't this what people keep saying to do, to create more war? If you can't find a reason to declare war, make one up?

Indirik

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Re: War please.
« Reply #160: June 30, 2012, 02:20:35 PM »
Any reason you use to go to war is going to be considered poor by the other side.
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Darksun

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Re: War please.
« Reply #161: June 30, 2012, 02:21:47 PM »
I just want to see the D'haran sneak attack on Madina. First BM amphibious assault?

Poliorketes

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Re: War please.
« Reply #162: June 30, 2012, 02:26:06 PM »
"Aurvandil has respect for nobles who will fight us,"  :o I never read something so funny! Aurvandil, respect? he,he,he...

Iin the end the Barca pirates will be exterminated!!! but with respect! ...and a bit of steel!  ;D

Dante Silverfire

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Re: War please.
« Reply #163: June 30, 2012, 03:19:30 PM »
Any reason you use to go to war is going to be considered poor by the other side.
Look, their reasons for war are obviously stupid. "We took three regions from you and won't give them back until you fix what we say is wrong with your realm! What? You don't want to? ATTAAAAAAAACK!"

But at the same time, isn't this what people keep saying to do, to create more war? If you can't find a reason to declare war, make one up?

Personally, I think its a great reason for war. (Making something random up like they have).

The game is about war anyway. I'm just tired of the propaganda trying to convince everyone that their casus belli is reasonable. It doesn't matter. If you win the war, then you make that argument. Before the war is over, its just useless anyway, unless you really need allies or want to keep allies away from your opponent. Even then though, sometimes just saying you want to go to fight for some time, will earn you more respect than lying about reasons.
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Indirik

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Re: War please.
« Reply #164: June 30, 2012, 03:43:52 PM »
It was certainly a creative way to turn the situation into a war. Better than many reasons I've seen. It definitely seems intentionally impossible to fulfill. But, hey, war is the point of the game.
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