War please.

[Penchant]

For the thrill, the challenge, and the bragging rights.

After all, if you win, you would hold the highest reputation of any realm on Dwilight, and you can R.P. stuffing Haktoo and keeping her stuffed body standing next to your Throne, or whatever you want.

Sure a group that thought they had the chance at surviving but the moot isn't known for its military cooridination.

[Penchant]

If they were honourable and not cowards, there participation wuoldn't even be in question

Well, Madina did a good job of pissing of the 'Moot and having bad relations, they had people like Abbot as their chief progagandist after all, can't blame the 'Moot for not supporting them.

You can't expect to piss off the realms and expect support.

[NoblesseChevaleresque]

The problem with that is then who do you fight? Far better (from a purely OOC perspective) to leave your enemies alive to fight another day, otherwise you'll eventually have to turn on your allies/vassals in order to create conflict. This is the future that will probably confront SA at some point. I just hope the Dev team implements schism mechanics in time for us to epically implode and start killing each other 

Aurvandil doesn't have a single ally /forever alone/.

[Perth]

Aurvandil went to war with Madina, whom were members of the moot.

What?

Who ever told you that? Madina was never a member of the 'Moot. In fact, there were the exact opposite. They were enemies of the 'Moot and we fought several wars against them.

The founding members of the 'Moot are Terran, D'Hara and Barca. Those are the only members now. And those are the only members there ever have been.

[Geronus]

Aurvandil doesn't have a single ally /forever alone/.

Yes, but under DamnTaffer's proposal you'd have had a puppet. Same difference for the purpose of my statement.

[Vellos]

..Or not.

Well then, the answer to your question is obvious. Aurvandil went to war with Madina, whom were members of the moot.

False. Madina were enemies of the Moot.

Madina is no longer with us. The moot didn't really help them.

No. We hurt them. Because we didn't like them at all. They tried to conquer Paisly, and didn't finally formally relinquish claim until very late in the affair. Barca lent you Evanburg (a fact Aurvandil has dishonorably ignored), while, after Madina pillaged Candiels for the first time, back when Aurvandil was weak, Hireshmont went to Madina and threatened to bring an army to besiege Madina City if the pirates didn't back off and work for peace. We secured a brief peace, which was eventually abandoned when we had other things to be doing. We eventually soured on Aurvandil because of how wretchedly rude and uncouth your nobles were in every interaction, and how expansionistic and aggressive you became. But for quite a while, we were actively intervening on your side: and that was when you were weak, not the Aurvandil of today that anybody would like to have as an ally.

It's amazing how short the institutional memory of Aurvandil is. You'd think a monarchy would do a better job remembering its friends.

Aurvandil went to war with Barca, whom were members of the moot, the moot doesn't seem to be helping them.

Let's be clear: it's been less than a week since you hit Barca. Even if we wanted to march down, guns a-blazin', for a full-bore war... we'd still be marching now, based on where your armies were. You make hasty conclusions based on insufficient evidence.

[DamnTaffer]

The problem with that is then who do you fight? Far better (from a purely OOC perspective) to leave your enemies alive to fight another day, otherwise you'll eventually have to turn on your allies/vassals in order to create conflict. This is the future that will probably confront SA at some point. I just hope the Dev team implements schism mechanics in time for us to epically implode and start killing each other 

I think the worst thing about dwilight is that Aurvandil and SA can't realisticly fight, the distance is too great.

OOC is irrelevant utterly to our options of making vassel states, we arn't game masters so we do what our realms and characters would do IC which most certainly isn't putting our enemies on the naughty step for a while for the sake of OOC amusement. And anyway, apparently we're evil saxons even if we did start doing OOC things for other peoples amusement someone would complain.

[DamnTaffer]

What?

Who ever told you that? Madina was never a member of the 'Moot. In fact, there were the exact opposite. They were enemies of the 'Moot and we fought several wars against them.

The founding members of the 'Moot are Terran, D'Hara and Barca. Those are the only members now. And those are the only members there ever have been.

My bad, I wasn't playing then, so my history is... patchy.

[Geronus]

I think the worst thing about dwilight is that Aurvandil and SA can't realisticly fight, the distance is too great.

OOC is irrelevant utterly to our options of making vassel states, we arn't game masters so we do what our realms and characters would do IC which most certainly isn't putting our enemies on the naughty step for a while for the sake of OOC amusement. And anyway, apparently we're evil saxons even if we did start doing OOC things for other peoples amusement someone would complain.

You can do things consistent with both principles you know. Noblesse-whatever has already outlined perfectly good IC reasons for not doing what you suggested, which also happen to jibe well with OOC considerations about making sure you still have enemies left to fight after the dust settles.

And that's my point. If you make your victories too complete you'll run out of things to fight, and then the game lapses into complete boredom.

[NoblesseChevaleresque]

False. Madina were enemies of the Moot.

No. We hurt them. Because we didn't like them at all. They tried to conquer Paisly, and didn't finally formally relinquish claim until very late in the affair. Barca lent you Evanburg (a fact Aurvandil has dishonorably ignored), while, after Madina pillaged Candiels for the first time, back when Aurvandil was weak, Hireshmont went to Madina and threatened to bring an army to besiege Madina City if the pirates didn't back off and work for peace. We secured a brief peace, which was eventually abandoned when we had other things to be doing. We eventually soured on Aurvandil because of how wretchedly rude and uncouth your nobles were in every interaction, and how expansionistic and aggressive you became. But for quite a while, we were actively intervening on your side: and that was when you were weak, not the Aurvandil of today that anybody would like to have as an ally.

It's amazing how short the institutional memory of Aurvandil is. You'd think a monarchy would do a better job remembering its friends.

Let's be clear: it's been less than a week since you hit Barca. Even if we wanted to march down, guns a-blazin', for a full-bore war... we'd still be marching now, based on where your armies were. You make hasty conclusions based on insufficient evidence.

That's interesting, in my experience it was only ever Madina who were rude and uncouth, Aurvandil went to great lengths to be exaggeratedly polite when the situation called for it, and it was only ever Madina that kept trying to call us out for post battle spitting contests.

As for "expansionist" do you mean when we were forced to expand over Madina because Madina refused to surrender, or accept unconditional peace?

As for aggressive, do you mean after Madina declared they would purge us from existence and execute our government and nobles, whereas Aurvandil would repeatedly offer peace to Madina, and to show mercy to their nobles? Which we did regardless of whether or not they accept.

Aurvandil has scarcely been aggressive, or expansionist, and only ever in response to Madina.

[NoblesseChevaleresque]

You can do things consistent with both principles you know. Noblesse-whatever has already outlined perfectly good IC reasons for not doing what you suggested, which also happen to jibe well with OOC considerations about making sure you still have enemies left to fight after the dust settles.

And that's my point. If you make your victories too complete you'll run out of things to fight, and then the game lapses into complete boredom.

Aurvandil has planned for that, sort of, we can always fight what new realm we create in Madina City.

We won't sit in boredom doing nothing like S.A. and we won't shy away from weakening ourselves, reducing our land or nobles in order to give them purpose, and something fun to do.

[Dante Silverfire]

That's interesting, in my experience it was only ever Madina who were rude and uncouth, Aurvandil went to great lengths to be exaggeratedly polite when the situation called for it, and it was only ever Madina that kept trying to call us out for post battle spitting contests.

As for "expansionist" do you mean when we were forced to expand over Madina because Madina refused to surrender, or accept unconditional peace?

As for aggressive, do you mean after Madina declared they would purge us from existence and execute our government and nobles, whereas Aurvandil would repeatedly offer peace to Madina, and to show mercy to their nobles? Which we did regardless of whether or not they accept.

Aurvandil has scarcely been aggressive, or expansionist, and only ever in response to Madina.

Wow....I don't think even CE can spew that much propaganda.

"scarcely been aggressive, or expansionist, and only ever in response to Madina." (Barca?)

"We had to expand, I mean they just wouldn't surrender, we felt bad about it though..."

[DamnTaffer]

You can do things consistent with both principles you know. Noblesse-whatever has already outlined perfectly good IC reasons for not doing what you suggested, which also happen to jibe well with OOC considerations about making sure you still have enemies left to fight after the dust settles.

And that's my point. If you make your victories too complete you'll run out of things to fight, and then the game lapses into complete boredom.

Aurvandil still has the rest of the moot, the luria and the zuma, we are certianly not short of enemies, crippling one realm utterly as a show of force would serve a purpose, will Aurvandil do it? Probably not.

And as for boredom? Even if Aurvandil destroyed all our local enemies, i'd still rather sit in the wasteland surrounding aurvandil and twiddle my thumbs than move to SA

[NoblesseChevaleresque]

Wow....I don't think even CE can spew that much propaganda.

"scarcely been aggressive, or expansionist, and only ever in response to Madina." (Barca?)

"We had to expand, I mean they just wouldn't surrender, we felt bad about it though..."

Oh, I was replying to the time frame posed, unless it encompassed the past week, which I was under the impression it wasn't. Since Vellos was talking in the past tense about things that turned them against Aurvandil.

[Penchant]

As for "expansionist" do you mean when we were forced to expand over Madina because Madina refused to surrender, or accept unconditional peace?

Not trying to argue on this, but I am curious, what were the terms for peace?