A Matter Of Honour // This-Is-How-You-Declare-War.

[Bael]

Correction:

D'Hara and Terran: Repeated reasonable queries about war, its possibility, etc

Barca: Yes, rally your armies.

D'Hara and Terran: Okay. We'll commit to this if you need us to.

Barca: Cool deal bro.

(two weeks later)*

*With a new Suffete.

D'Hara and Terran: Okay, we're ready for war.

Barca: Oh sorry lol jk. We were just !@#$ing with you.

D'Hara and Terran: Oh, so you horribly botched your foreign affairs and managed to be a cluster!@#$? Again?

Barca: *Well sure if you wanna attack Aurvandil we'll support you.

*Barca gives long list of reasons why it would be bad for Barca if Terran and D'Hara attack Aurvandil, and the "allies" go ahead with it anyway. So much for trusting to better judgement. 

D'Hara and Terran: Yeah, we're kinda starving here.

Barca: Oh by the way we're going to have the wrong marshal settings, our general abandon us, and our nobles marching in the wrong direction. Is that okay?

D'Hara and Terran: ....

I added in the ommitted parts.

[Velax]

Oooooo, my turn!

Barca: Why won't you give us back our regions?

Aurvandil: Because your walls are made of sticks and dirt and your peasants dress in leaves!

Barca: Awww, but...we really want them back...

Aurvandil: No.

Barca: Please?

Aurvandil: Hmm...no. And now we attack you for daring to ask.

Terran and D'Hara: Let's beat up Aurvandil!

Allison: Give me your armies and I shall crush Aurvandil!

Terran and D'Hara: Sure, that sounds goo...wait, aren't you the crazy bitch that declared war on us a month ago? What the hell are you even doing here?

Allison: Erm...well...GIVE ME YOUR ARMIES!

Terran and D'Hara: No, we can do just fine thanks. *immediately get crushed by Aurvandil*

Terran and D'Hara: Even though we were hugely outnumbered, this is all your fault, Barca!

*elsewhere in Dwilight*

Glaumring: I will crush you all! Stop picking on me! Feel my wrath! Stop being mean, guys...

[dustole]

Allison: Give me your armies and I shall crush Aurvandil!

Terran and D'Hara: Sure, that sounds goo...wait, aren't you the crazy bitch that declared war on us a month ago? What the hell are you even doing here?

Allison: Erm...well...GIVE ME YOUR ARMIES!

Terran and D'Hara: No, we can do just fine thanks. *immediately get crushed by Aurvandil*

Too funny.  Even more so since Allison might get elected as Magistrate of War for Terran!

[Perth]

To be fair, no one in the 'Moot actually thought we were going to win that battle, lol.

[Perth]

Barca: Thanks, but we don't need your help. We almost have peace.

If by "peace" you mean Aurvandil stole three regions from you, you did nothing to get them back except somehow manage to provoke an attack from Aurvandil, completely roll over and watch your balls fall off, and then beg Aurvandil to let you live. Okay.

[Bael]

If by "peace" you mean Aurvandil stole three regions from you,

It was the stupid nobles that took them. And no one is denying that they were seeking a casus belli, but it was never one of total destruction.

you did nothing to get them back except somehow manage to provoke an attack from Aurvandil,

All down to the choice of diplomat.

 

completely roll over and watch your balls fall off,

Oh, you mean having our capital invaded by 26k combat strength? Yeah, that was totally rolling over...

 

 and then beg Aurvandil to let you live. Okay.

According to IC interactions, there was never a chance of Barca getting destroyed.  Now it is almost guaranteed.

In truth, in the final analysis, I would put this whole situation down to bad communication.

[T Strike]

I hope the entire continent declares war on Aurvandil so they can shove that 31k army up their backsides...

[NoblesseChevaleresque]

I hope the entire continent declares war on Aurvandil so they can shove that 31k army up their backsides...

It's a lot larger than 31kcs, we brought 35kcs just to deal with the 'Moot, and left a fair amount behind.

And well, our army wouldn't be an issue if the Veinsormoot didn't declare war in the first place, peace was all but assured with Barca, but then as it turns out Barca isn't exactly an independent realm.

[NoblesseChevaleresque]

If by "peace" you mean Aurvandil stole three regions from you, you did nothing to get them back except somehow manage to provoke an attack from Aurvandil, completely roll over and watch your balls fall off, and then beg Aurvandil to let you live. Okay.

Well, they did plenty to get the regions back, it just so happens a lot of that was to provoke a war.

Barca didn't roll over, they stood their ground and fought us, and when it was over they even asked us a arranged open field battle as a prerequisite for peace, and they certainly didn't beg Aurvandil for peace, and Aurvandil wouldn't tolerate such beggary. Aurvandil wanted peace, Barca wanted peace, and we were arranging a compromise to the affect of getting a peace treaty we both wanted. The only time Barca got castrated, is when they let their allies invalidate their sovereignty and independence and forced them into a war they didn't want, couldn't win, and will most certainly die from.

But, Terran will realise soon enough what it means to have the bulk of Aurvandil's army destroying it's capital except we won't give you the courtesies we gave Barca, since Barca we could actually respect as a realm.

[Perth]

since Barca we could actually respect as a realm.

LOL. Oh so many "courtesies." Like, stealing three regions, and then attacking them for it.

What respect? You marched into their capital, RP-ed (an OOC rude and disrespectful thing to do) it a mud and sticks "uncivlized" waste hole in the forest, and proceeded to sack it. Dude, I think you're starting to believe your own indoctrination a little to much.

I mean, I realize Aurvandil have this whole mongol hordes thing going on and the "respect" and "courtesy" you allow your enemies is not really respect or courtesy, but you could at least not act you believe that OOC.

[Marlboro]

Dude, I think you're starting to believe your own indoctrination a little to much.

I mean, I realize Aurvandil have this whole mongol hordes thing going on and the "respect" and "courtesy" you allow your enemies is not really respect or courtesy, but you could at least not act you believe that OOC.

+1, always been my only real beef too.

[Sacha]

+1, always been my only real beef too.

Pfft, as if they're any different from all the other guys around here who have to OOC prove to everyone they have IC justice on their side 

[NoblesseChevaleresque]

Well lets review then.

Did Aurvandil steal the regions? No, they were forced on us quite against our will, and the war was irrespective of the regions, it was to punish Julius and to defend our honour, the war didn't affect whether or not we would return the regions, and it's exactly because of that that we didn't hand the regions over before the war started, though for a time I was considering it.

What courtesies did we afford Barca? Well, we forewarned them for over a week of our arrival, they just never bothered to question it. Upon our arrival in Rettlewood, what did we do? We gave them a day to give us terms for the war - effectively giving them the ability to tell us where, when and how this war will be fought, something they refused, so we marched into Rettleville, and after proving our point, we left immediately and offered them peace, and in talks for peace we were perfectly open to compromise and accepting terms Suffete Brackern offered. As far as I am aware, it's not exactly common that an invading army gives their enemy forewarning, then openly offers them the choice of when, where and how they will fight. There isn't really any two ways about it, that is showing courtesy, and we remained perfectly civil and respectful (Discounting the whole having my General sharpen his sword on their senate house business) in our dealings with Barca, it isn't a case of me spinning you bull!@#$ OOC to try and put Aurvandil in a better light.

As for your comments on the Roleplay, well I think that has already been concisely disproved on this thread as being "rude" about their city.

[Foundation]

My unit had 7 banners, 60 is hardly high enough for 3000 men.

[BarticaBoat]

Well lets review then.

Did Aurvandil steal the regions? No, they were forced on us quite against our will, and the war was irrespective of the regions, it was to punish Julius and to defend our honour, the war didn't affect whether or not we would return the regions, and it's exactly because of that that we didn't hand the regions over before the war started, though for a time I was considering it.

What courtesies did we afford Barca? Well, we forewarned them for over a week of our arrival, they just never bothered to question it. Upon our arrival in Rettlewood, what did we do? We gave them a day to give us terms for the war - effectively giving them the ability to tell us where, when and how this war will be fought, something they refused, so we marched into Rettleville, and after proving our point, we left immediately and offered them peace, and in talks for peace we were perfectly open to compromise and accepting terms Suffete Brackern offered. As far as I am aware, it's not exactly common that an invading army gives their enemy forewarning, then openly offers them the choice of when, where and how they will fight. There isn't really any two ways about it, that is showing courtesy, and we remained perfectly civil and respectful (Discounting the whole having my General sharpen his sword on their senate house business) in our dealings with Barca, it isn't a case of me spinning you bull!@#$ OOC to try and put Aurvandil in a better light.

As for your comments on the Roleplay, well I think that has already been concisely disproved on this thread as being "rude" about their city.

you seem to forget that you should be treating this like a boardgame between friends, but your only goal is to !@#$ on everyone and shut them down. do you not understand why we're mad? we're not in this to get 100% efficiency and infinite goldz so we can become da kings of dwilight!!!!11 we're here to have fun and roleplay and play a game. when you waltz in and say "shiiiiet look at me, i'm the best, your city is !@#$ and your peasants are savages. !@#$, we march in dope-ass formations with infinite precision lookatmelookatmelookatmelookatme !@#$ all of you" we're gonna get pissed at you. quit being a jackass. if it wasn't my own ooc intentions, i'd have my character work his !@#$ing hardest to stomp your !@#$; but wait, my character isn't a perfect noble warrior intent on destroying the savages with infinite gold and 100% efficiency, he's a working human being with his own history. he has his own goals grappling with his long history of war and current inability to fight, trying to find meaning in his shattered world, adapting to a rapidly changing life where elders are no longer revered for their wisdom, and somehow trying to find an evolution of himself while he is facing his rapidly approaching mortality.

but !@#$, let's conquer the whole of dwilight with !@#$ing monarchies because we are the !@#$.