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Ambush

Started by Zakilevo, July 05, 2012, 06:13:56 AM

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Anaris

The purpose of an ambush is to allow a small force to inflict a disproportionate amount of damage on a larger force without taking commensurate casualties itself.
Timothy Collett

"The only thing you can't trade for your heart's desire...is your heart." "You are what you do.  Choose again, and change." "One of these days, someone's gonna plug you, and you're going to die saying, 'What did I say? What did I say?'"  ~ Miles Naismith Vorkosigan

Tom

Regarding the "to fight blobbing" postings - I do think that auto-withdrawl is the better option there. The problem is not that the larger army does more damage (it should), but that it wipes out the defenders. That leads to people always blobbing around because being hit by the enemy blob in small units is suicide.

Regarding the disproportionate damage - I agree on that as a purpose. It has to come at a price, though, otherwise people will use it all the time.


One thing has not been mentioned: To engage the enemy archers in melee combat without having to cut down all their melee troops first. This is also the idea of flanking, to a degree.



I suggest we merge these two ideas. I don't think a real ambush mechanic will work in BM. We don't simulate army movement in enough detail right now for it to work nicely, and adding that would be a lot of work.

But how about setting up "flanking maneuver" as a combat option, maybe a deployment setting? Give it a chance of discovery. If you are discovered, your unit starts at the very back of your own army deployment zone, as it has to maneuver back to its own army. If you succeed, you start behind the ENEMY deployment zone, and will probably hit their archers in the back within 2 turns.

Fairly easy to implement, allows a small force to do disproportionate damage (melee troops engaging archers are usually a slaughter), adds a risk factor, and with a bit of strategy (one bait unit deployed regularily, two flanking units) you have a nice trap for the enemy blob.


Zakilevo

Don't people usually put cavalry units at the back as well? It would be good to appear behind your enemy's hard hitters.

Also, how many units will appear from the behind? If it isn't enough, it will be nothing more than throwing your units to enemy archers.

vonGenf

Quote from: Zakilevo on July 24, 2012, 09:01:58 AM
Also, how many units will appear from the behind? If it isn't enough, it will be nothing more than throwing your units to enemy archers.

That's the risk part. If the ambush doesn't work right, then these troops are lost already and you've just reduced your forces for no effect.
After all it's a roleplaying game.

Zakilevo

Also, it seems it would be rather useless against an infantry heavy army. Small realms won't stand a chance even with this new feature.

Gustav Kuriga

I beg to differ. Cavalry can wipe the floor with an infantry army that doesn't use the correct settings. And a larger realm should beat a smaller realm when competency is equivalent.

vonGenf

Quote from: Zakilevo on July 24, 2012, 10:01:26 AM
Also, it seems it would be rather useless against an infantry heavy army.

If your opponent uses heavy infantry, destroy their infantry RC.

If your opponent uses heavy infantry, deploy your units in box formation.

If your opponent uses heavy infantry, deploy your archers in the rear and rain arrows while they walk all the way to you.

If your opponent takes the clue and stops using heavy infantry, use ambushes.

Quote
Small realms won't stand a chance even with this new feature.

The point is not to give an automatic win to smaller realm. The point is to allow more tactics such that a better tactician can still win with inferior forces.
After all it's a roleplaying game.

fodder

the reason i mentioned lower morale... is that it might be possible to force the enemy to retreat very early? so if you survive the 1st contact, you might route their mostly retreated army?

the thing about placing them behind enemy lines... do enemy archers shoot in the "correct" direction only? and i guess the ambushing units will always move in the "wrong" direction? will they end up charging through enemy lines, own lines and then off the battlefield? (can you even charge off the battlefield nowadays?) will the bits of the ambushed side move in the "wrong" direction to defend against the ambushers?
firefox

Anaris

Quote from: fodder on July 24, 2012, 08:31:21 PM
the reason i mentioned lower morale... is that it might be possible to force the enemy to retreat very early? so if you survive the 1st contact, you might route their mostly retreated army?

I think that this would be a good detail to add to whatever the final implementation ends up being. Getting ambushed can, indeed, be very demoralizing, and it ought to make it much more likely for the ambushees to retreat early.
Timothy Collett

"The only thing you can't trade for your heart's desire...is your heart." "You are what you do.  Choose again, and change." "One of these days, someone's gonna plug you, and you're going to die saying, 'What did I say? What did I say?'"  ~ Miles Naismith Vorkosigan