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[Draco Tanos]

They were just likely considered the easiest target.

[Lefanis]

The whole island looks down on Sorraine because they've earned it. The realm's population, whether be it by law or not is irrelevant, is openly hostile to the other faiths of the island. That is public perception. The CoS is the only religion on the FEI that doesn't play nice with everyone else. Nobody else closes down or sacks temples, uses their religion to attempt to undermine governments, uses secular wars as an excuse to go burning temples, etc etc.

Or butchers the followers of other religions in cold blood, Ozrat when the remaining Adgharin were slaughtered.

[Bedwyr]

As a player I wish there was some sort of middle ground to pursue, because religion should be one of the prime movers of conflict in the game. But no King who enjoys a firm level of control is going to willingly hand over control to any religion, so Galiard can't do much about it, and the other faiths are too fragmented (at least at the moment).

Most of the realms on the FEI have been secular dictatorships of one form or another and they'd be pretty foolish to give that up.

And this is precisely why a smart King should be very, very religious.  If you are in charge of a Church, then you can have influence wherever it does...Which might be well beyond the boundaries of your realm.

Only works with a good religion, though, otherwise you get the empty-state-religion issue.

[BardicNerd]

Also the Church itself isn't as looked down upon as you make out; it has a significant presence in nearly every northern realm and no ruler has yet attempted to ban or destroy its temples (though if the Church dosn't get its diplomatic ability back on track then that could change).

That's actually not entirely true, during the last war, Zonasa authorized the burning of Sartanian temples after they burned temples in Zonasa (it was not particularly encouraged, just allowed -- normally such an act might get one banned), and after another event, Morgan strongly considered banning CoS -- he had the support of all the lords to do so, in fact, he just decided not to in the end.

I don't think they're looked down on. To the extent that Sorraine might be, it's more because of poor leadership than because of the Church, which has had some blunders but as Meneldur pointed out, these came about because the Church actually does something.

It is one of the difficulties of 21st century values in a medieval game. The CoS is really the closest thing to how medieval nobles (if not Kings) would think about religion. Most every religion in the Middle Ages was openly hostile to most every other religion, and the exceptions to that rule were more on the local level in the handful of cities where you had multiple faiths mostly getting along -- like Jerusalem, until the Turks came in.

As a player I wish there was some sort of middle ground to pursue, because religion should be one of the prime movers of conflict in the game. But no King who enjoys a firm level of control is going to willingly hand over control to any religion, so Galiard can't do much about it, and the other faiths are too fragmented (at least at the moment).

Most of the realms on the FEI have been secular dictatorships of one form or another and they'd be pretty foolish to give that up.

I think to some extent that this may also be because in general, most realms have multiple religions in them, and there is certainly no huge religion that has pretty much sole claim to several realms the way Christianity and Islam did in our middle ages, or how SA does on Dwilight.  And so avoiding internal strife caused by followers of the other religions probably keeps some rulers from trying to advance their religion too much.  That has always been Morgan's reasoning behind Zonasa's official policy of religious tolerance (I'm not sure that's how it started, but it's why Morgan thinks it's a good idea and hasn't tried to stamp it out) -- and why we've actually executed someone for stirring up religious unrest.

And this is precisely why a smart King should be very, very religious.  If you are in charge of a Church, then you can have influence wherever it does...Which might be well beyond the boundaries of your realm.

This can be a double edged sword, though, in that then the religion may more easily influence your realm . . . so it depends how much risk you want to take and how confident you are that you will exert more influence on others than is exerted on your realm . . . if you're confident in that, though, it is generally the way to go.

[Indirik]

Sorraine's war against OW has not been a religious war, even though most of Sorraine despises the OW "religion". Which it should, as both religions consider the other as evil. The followers of the religions *should* hate and despise each other. (IMHO, there's not enough of that kind of thing IG. Too many characters ignore the "evil" declarations of their church.)

Despite the religious differences there have not been any temple sackings by either side in the war, so far as I know. OW has all but promised to close down all Sartanian temples in the lands they take, with the exception of the temple in Ossaet itself, if they end up with it.

[Scarlett]

And this is precisely why a smart King should be very, very religious.

If he has the opportunity to wield considerable power in the Church, yes. If he doesn't, then he's just subordinating himself to somebody outside his realm. Why admit that there is somebody in between you and the Divine Right if you don't have to?

[Gabanus family]

What did the WotD start, then?  ::)

The WotD actually declared the Church of Sartan to be evil before the Church of Sartan did so to the WotD. Although once we declared them evil the WotD claimed they were just about to 'unevil' us...

And with the disappearance of Selene and even Mathilda hopefull we'll gain some goodwill again. It'll be hard though I reckon.

[Lefanis]

The WotD actually declared the Church of Sartan to be evil before the Church of Sartan did so to the WotD. Although once we declared them evil the WotD claimed they were just about to 'unevil' us...

And with the disappearance of Selene and even Mathilda hopefull we'll gain some goodwill again. It'll be hard though I reckon.

No, I declared Sartanism evil after our priests were beaten up multiple times. Which means they'd declared us evil. We even asked the Sartanists to remove their status of us before declaring them evil.

[Gabanus family]

No, I declared Sartanism evil after our priests were beaten up multiple times. Which means they'd declared us evil. We even asked the Sartanists to remove their status of us before declaring them evil.

Really because I could have sworn it was the other way around as I can remember a debate when I just got elder about you having us evil and being heathens and all, so why hadn't we declared you evil yet.

[Antonine]

No, I declared Sartanism evil after our priests were beaten up multiple times. Which means they'd declared us evil. We even asked the Sartanists to remove their status of us before declaring them evil.

Nope. You can still get beaten up, if I recall correctly, by followers of a misguided religion. Also, I definitely don't remember any request to change our view of WotD.

Besides, it's all your own fault for being essentially atheists :p

[Lefanis]

Besides, it's all your own fault for being essentially atheists :p

No we aren't  ;)

[Bedwyr]

This can be a double edged sword, though, in that then the religion may more easily influence your realm . . . so it depends how much risk you want to take and how confident you are that you will exert more influence on others than is exerted on your realm . . . if you're confident in that, though, it is generally the way to go.

If you aren't confident that you can influence people more than you are influenced by them, then you aren't the kind of Ruler who would be working for more out-realm control than you already have, you would be working to consolidate your control in-realm...After which you could push on the religious front (grins).

If he has the opportunity to wield considerable power in the Church, yes. If he doesn't, then he's just subordinating himself to somebody outside his realm. Why admit that there is somebody in between you and the Divine Right if you don't have to?

If you can't find a way to gain significant influence within a church when you are already the Ruler of a realm and are actively working on its behalf, then either

1. You are incompetent, or
2. The Church Elders are incompetent.

Or both, of course.  If the former, work on gaining competence.  If the latter, have a new religious epiphany and find another religion.

[Antonine]

No we aren't  ;)

Look, you don't worship any specific gods - therefore you must be atheists. Therefore you must die. Simples.

;)

[Stabbity]

To set the record straight, it wasn't the Sartanians that started the religious side to the war. Both the Order and CoH started burning our temples first.

What? Keep the propaganda IC. The only time the Order burned Sartan churches was after Sorraine's spree in the South. Then we burned two, same number. To argue OOC that the Order started burning churches is delusional, and simply untrue. The Order declared the CoS evil after Selene, in response to a purely secular war, declared she would burn all Order holy sites in Masahakon, the Order's most holy city, and pledged to kill every man, woman and child of the Order in Masahakon. Then after NeoSartania was destroyed the Order had no interaction with the CoS which was soley in the North while the Order was soley in the South. When the Order started expanding in the North, Thain brought up the subject of relegating the Cos back to misguided. Then the CoS burned two of our temples and that got thrown out.

[Antonine]

The Order declared the CoS evil after Selene, in response to a purely secular war, declared she would burn all Order holy sites in Masahakon, the Order's most holy city, and pledged to kill every man, woman and child of the Order in Masahakon.

Your fault for talking NS into a joint war with C'thonia and then stabbing it in the back immediately after hostilities were declared. If an oathbreaker and general liar like Thain can be made head of the Order of the Elders then that's living proof that the Order is evil :p