Realm Merger of Solaria and Luria Nova

[Woelfy]

Not relevant. That is not the scope of "friendly" that is being implied here.

How is it irrelevant based on how the discussion has gone? The first duchy switching was under friendly terms obviously, hence the immediate elevation of status of Duke Sun Hall by King LN. That is what the question was, unless I miss my mark.

With the remains of the Kingdom of Solaria being a completely unmanageable mess (due to things that have been gone over several times), the switching of the final duchy was the only option that seemed remotely viable.

Like I've said before, if I am in fact in violation of anything, I am ready to face whatever consequences are decided upon.

[Gustav Kuriga]

It does not matter if a duchy switch by a duke is friendly in an allegiance change. Only between BOTH rulers.

[Woelfy]

It does not matter if a duchy switch by a duke is friendly in an allegiance change. Only between BOTH rulers.

And I believe it has been made perfectly clear that if anything, the switch has caused massive animosity between my character and just about everyone involved. Particularly the ruler of Luria Nova.

[Tom]

If I may inject, because this is already taking way too long.

We are bickering over details.

A "friendly realm merger" does not require a precise definition of every word. What I intend by those words is that I don't want realm A and realm B to sit together and say "hey, as one realm we would have better game mechanics on our side" or whatever, and then simply join up.

What happened here was NOT the scenario I see as a "friendly realm merger", because it was not an agreed act of cooperation between two parties. You can discuss the "friendly" part if you want, but there wasn't a merger. Whatever you call it, and it sure is a strange event, but it's not the event I ruled disallowed.

Moreover, that real question is, which part of the Social Contract was broken. If we can not spot one without lots of arguing, then we can not assume that the players should have.

That is what I meant a while ago when I said cases should be handled a lot faster because unless they are fairly obvious, we can't expect the players to have seen their acts as violations. If it takes a week of deliberation between half a dozen Magistrates to determine whether or not... - how can we expect the players to come to a sane conclusion?

I'm almost ready to make a ruling that says if the Magistrates can't clearly say "guilty" within a few days, then he's innocent. Mostly so the whole game doesn't get bogged down in rules-lawyering. If that means we let a few people go without punishment, that's fine with me. I'd rather improve the rules than try hard to get every last one of them.

[Vellos]

A verdict has been reached, and necessary IG enforcement actions have been taken. For anyone who desires to cite this case in the future, the final verdict was:

"The Magistrates decline to rule on the question of realm mergers generally and the secession of capital duchies at this time, due to ongoing discussions among the Magistrates, Dev Team, and Tom. However, the cession of the last duchy of Solaria to Luria Nova and the resultant realm merger was clearly in violation of this rule. Furthermore, it was only possible due to the exploitation of a known bug. Finally, the bug exploiter can reasonably be expected to know it was a bug and that his actions were prohibited given that he took part in a discussion of the issue on the forum in the days leading up to the merger. As such, the Magistrates find him guilty, and shall apply a 1-day account lock.

Magistrates voted 1-7 in favor of the guilty verdict, with 2 in favor of a warning, 3 in favor of a 1-day lock, and 1 in favor of a 3-day lock. A 1-day lock has been applied."

This thread will remain open for a brief time to allow for any questions for clarification regarding the verdict.

[Lefanis]

Questions and clarifications only please. This thread will be modded.

[Gustav Kuriga]

Ok. How can this person be reasonably expected to know that this was an exploit if it takes a week of deliberation by the Magistrates to come to this conclusion?

[Bedwyr]

I am strongly disputing the verdict as stated.  Tom himself commented that this did not meet his standard of a friendly realm merger.  The Magistrates have no authority to overturn that.  The bug exploit issue is a separate one.

[Gustav Kuriga]

I am strongly disputing the verdict as stated.  Tom himself commented that this did not meet his standard of a friendly realm merger.  The Magistrates have no authority to overturn that.  The bug exploit issue is a separate one.

This

[egamma]

Ok. How can this person be reasonably expected to know that this was an exploit if it takes a week of deliberation by the Magistrates to come to this conclusion?

Perhaps the vote poll started in the magistrates thread was set to run for a week?

I am strongly disputing the verdict as stated.  Tom himself commented that this did not meet his standard of a friendly realm merger.  The Magistrates have no authority to overturn that.  The bug exploit issue is a separate one.

The Magistrates did not overturn Tom's ruling. If you will read my original complaint, you will see that I reported this as both "friendly realm merger" and "bug exploit". The Magistrates returned a ruling on the "bug exploit".

[Tom]

For the record: I agree with the verdict. The comment I made was regarding the "friendly realm merger" discussion. But in this case, there was a forum discussion preceeding the event, during which it was explicitly said that such an action would be bad.

[Foundation]

Could anyone post times and links to that prior discussion thread?  I presume that discussion was before the allegiance change?

[Lefanis]

http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,2504.465.html
http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,3382.0.html

[egamma]

http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,2504.465.html
http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,3382.0.html

more specifically:
http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,3382.msg79010.html#msg79010 (and immediately following)

[Vellos]

Reposting verdict and closing thread:

A verdict has been reached, and necessary IG enforcement actions have been taken. For anyone who desires to cite this case in the future, the final verdict was:

"The Magistrates decline to rule on the question of realm mergers generally and the secession of capital duchies at this time, due to ongoing discussions among the Magistrates, Dev Team, and Tom. However, the cession of the last duchy of Solaria to Luria Nova and the resultant realm merger was clearly in violation of this rule. Furthermore, it was only possible due to the exploitation of a known bug. Finally, the bug exploiter can reasonably be expected to know it was a bug and that his actions were prohibited given that he took part in a discussion of the issue on the forum in the days leading up to the merger. As such, the Magistrates find him guilty, and shall apply a 1-day account lock.

Magistrates voted 1-7 in favor of the guilty verdict, with 2 in favor of a warning, 3 in favor of a 1-day lock, and 1 in favor of a 3-day lock. A 1-day lock has been applied."

This thread is now closed.