[Forum Game] Werewolf XIII: The Heaven Falls Upon Us!

[Disturbedyang]

Ketchum - Like i said, it sounded like a super-seer instead of the angels. And like i said, i had other confirmed target instead of you.

Penchant - So you blamed me too for your lynch? I did help you but i don't want to make it like we PMed each other, so i came out with some different theory of why i voted Egamma. But i don't think we can win this game anyway.

Tandaros - You should be paranoid in this game. Perhaps you will learn how it sounds like when they are lying and how is it when they are telling the truth now. It's all about judgement on sentences because we can't see facial expressions online. Like how i analysed Ketchum's way of posting differ from the other games. It all comes from experience from playing with them anyway. And DK was suspicious too because he used to join in the vote and bandwagon but not this time... And of course stabbity with his stupid vote. haha :p

[DK]

It was close but Tandaros didn't want to listen to my logic, which still stands. If I was bad, why would I accuse Egamma instead of just hunt him at night. As a baddie, it's guaranteed and no randomness to my voting.

It was a good game, despite two big imbalances. First 4 baddies was a bit much, 3 sure, but 4 a bit too much. Second imbalance is the fact that the only person who can scan people has no reason to be good. Sure, the other seers could scan for a role, but you only learn who is bad, you have no way of confirming someone as good.

Lastly, I don't mean to sound like I am complaining because I lost, because I am not, when baddies won, I was surprised there was so many but when I died I blamed good guys for my death, though except for Tandoras I actually can't blame now. So now that I got that rant of a sentence done, DK technically broke the rules according to his original pm to Ketchum.

Ouch.... I didn't realize that. I don't have my previous message in my inbox to defend myself nor will I. But let me say that it wouldn't be much of an impact. If I didn't say any of those word, the baddies would still win. They already gathering the Angels to vote you out. I was from day 1, looking at inactivity, already decided to join the Angels. My principles is, always keep things going and baddies are the best ways to keep things going. Lynching, not much, too much twist and draw 

The votes for day 3 were 6 to 4, without my vote, 5. But I will say I would have voted for you still cause I already side the Angels and even without alliance, I can still win since both side would deem me precious 

I'm not trying to be egoistic but the baddies would have win regardless. It will only be either a delay or a quick one. I did not at all, influence the game to a turning point. Parity would be reached with 4 baddies. If you didn't die and assumed that Lefanis remained a target that night, there's 9 people. They only need 1 people dead and by then, they still could influence the votes since you can't post GM's message, which is a very very big blowoff in the trust issue.

With or without me, they reached parity. I was just super-duper lucky. Even up to the last day where they announce parity, I'm still having the shock of 4 baddies in the game.

Then again, I accept that I broke the rule. I just hop into an alliance so I didn't take this game as a win from the start.

[Penchant]

Penchant - So you blamed me too for your lynch? I did help you but i don't want to make it like we PMed each other, so i came out with some different theory of why i voted Egamma. But i don't think we can win this game anyway.

I didn't really blame anyone in particular but due to me not knowing that we had that many baddies, I just felt like the good guys could have saved me. That and I was dead so I wasn't winning either way so I didn't care.

[Fury]

Here's my side:

Egamma and I were angels from the start but we didn't know who were the Inquisitors and had no way to scan for them. So we had to be real careful not to accidentally hunt Inquisitors meaning we would only hunt confirmed good guys.

I think DK mentioned that he thought the bad guys would be one pro and one newbie. Well, since I was a bad guy I was looking at Lefanis as a demon and we were going to take him out first . Then to my shock Lefanis protected me from Elegant's scan on Night 1 which meant he was a bodyguard. A quick word with GM confirmed that only ONE role was assigned to each person. This mean Lefanis was definitely a good guy but not the big honcho.

I didn't see bodyguards as a threat - only demons and the superseer were since they were the only ones who could identify us and if you get identified it goes downhill from there.  So we only had one attack night and we attacked Tandaros since I felt he was the superseer as he was spouting mystical words. I misread the superseer role as I thought if baddies reach parity they would kill everyone including the superseer. Anyway, someone protected Tandaros so we failed our only hunt.

I PMed Tandaros to see if he had anything to say and he later confided in me that he didn't trust Elegant because he found him in his bedroom. And hey, the same thing happened to me too so it was convenient for me to say I didn't trust Elegant either. Then Tandaros said he scanned me and was happy that I wasn't and Inquisitor out to kill him and I was like uh huh uh huh.

I also PMed Ketchum, because he didn't seem gung ho about forming his justice league and if Lefanis wasn't and Inquisitor then Ketchum seemed to be the next veteran. I can tell you it was just crazy trying to find out if Ketchum was a baddie without giving myself as a baddie away. You can't just come out and say it. Anyway, the more we PM the more I was sure and I even asked him if Disturbedyang (I meant to say Stabbity actually) was his partner but I didn't get a reply on that.

On that crucial night when Penchant publicly accused Egamma as an angel my heart sank. I did not have internet access an hour before deadline and it was a crucial vote! So, I signed up for a mobile data plan for one day (my very first time) - talk about dedication, eh?  This way, I could vote-snipe and also PM Tandaros and nudge him into voting for Penchant. I thought that Stabbity was an Inquisitor because he voted for Penchant immediately after Penchant's announcement. But I didn't want to make any move towards parity yet because the Inquisitor's hunt had yet to be resolved. If the hunt was blocked then we wouldn't have reached parity and we could still be outlynched.

Of course, I didn't know that the Superseer was already on our side. If Egamma was lynched then I would have taken the chance and revealed myself to Ketchum. Otherwise, it would only be a matter of time before I was identified. So 4 baddies wasn't unbalanced, considering we would likely lynch or attack one another if we didn't find each other. Once we had parity, I was just playing the aggrieved party. Oh, that last RP with Lefanis, Elegant, Egamma and me was mine. 

P.S. It's actually hard to counter when someone has scanned you and publicly denounces you which was why the strategy was to get rid of all the seers first. So Penchant did everything right. But we only needed to convince one person to force a tie and we got 2 instead.

[Penchant]

Now I only wonder if I should have made the causation the second day instead of the third, I scanned Egamma the first night, but without any support besides Elegant I didn't want to risk it without the support, but it seems perhaps I should have as you guys would have had less support and be less unified.

Also, I am starting to think that 4 baddies wasn't such a misbalance, I think the key here was mythological seer not being strictly a good guy.

[Disturbedyang]

I initially thought it is not imbalance too, but don't forget that two sets of the baddies already know each other. So they only need to find out the other 'set'. If they started without knowing each other, than it's probably fair play.

[Fury]

What? You scanned Egamma the first night and Elegant scanned me the first night too? Well, this means demons more or less got to the Angels first.

About imbalance, there is no way mechanic wise for angels and inquisitors to find each other. Other than your gut feeling. Or a demon saying so. If I hadn't known that Egamma was an angel myself I might have suspected a trick.

Ex. Penchant says Elegant is an angel (after Pming trusted characters to explain the plan - Except that Penchant PMed me and Lefanis. ) and waits for inquisitors to PM Elegant. How would that turn out? 

[Tandaros]

I initially thought it is not imbalance too, but don't forget that two sets of the baddies already know each other. So they only need to find out the other 'set'. If they started without knowing each other, than it's probably fair play.

That seems accurate.

[Lefanis]

Wait what... When you messaged me and Fury, you already knew he was an angel? Why tip him off?

[Fury]

Oh yes, I scanned Elegant on Day 2 and knew he was a demon and then Penchant PMs saying he's a demon. Talk about luck - I couldn't believe it . So we more or less had the demons in our hands too and just needed to hook up with the Inquisitors.

[Disturbedyang]

Penchant is our spy!!! lolz.

Anyway, Fury, what i meant was both angels know each other and both inquisitors know each other. But for the demons, the seer doesn't know each other. Hence you only need to find out by deceiving one side of the demon that are able to find out your inquisitors/angels because they will only see you as a demon after scanning you. If you understand what i meant. But Demon seers on the other hand would be reluctant to PM the one they scanned as cleared because that person might turn out to be the other side of the angels/inquisitors. That's a huge imbalance if you ask me. And of course it can be offset if the angels do not know each other and they have the chance to only kill when the GM say they have.

[Fury]

I think the imbalance was the number of players. 13 with 2 inactive leaving 11 players (7 good, 4 bad).

Baddies can't PM someone and say they're cleared either.

EDIT: I get what you mean - once baddies hook up we would be unstoppable.

[D'Espana]

I knew already that 4 baddies could be a little too much, but in the end I decided that it was fair. Why? Mainly because almost everyone of the good guys had also special roles. There were 2 bodyguards, 2 seers for the Angels and 2 seers for the Church Inquisitors; and there were also double good guys than bad (13 players, 8 good, 4 bad and 1 neutral)

What in the end happened was that whereas the baddies used well their resources, the rest did not nearly made such an eficient use. I mean, the first night there was only 1 protection (Disturbedyang did not send any) and in every night there were always 2 people who did not make use of their roles. There is also the fact that 2 good guys turned inactive, and as such were elected as lynch and did not contribute for the Demon's cause.

But the real key was DK, yes. Exactly what I intended: I wanted the Mythological Seer to be a mini-GM while in game, free to make his will and decide the outcome of it based in his choices. That was the reason to give him the ability of being immortal for a day, and also for limiting the number to one. And in the end, DK did not dissapoint me 

I also have to say that I counted on 1 baddy to be killed in a night hunt, and other one to be lynched for a slip in his posts. From there on, only 2 baddies would remain, and can only win being skilled enough (and thus deserving to win)

What? You scanned Egamma the first night and Elegant scanned me the first night too? Well, this means demons more or less got to the Angels first.

Yes, that was really funny for me. I thought that the Angels were doomed in the first night, but then saw that Lefanis protected you right in the proper time. I also laughed when Demons scanned Chuch Inquisitors or Mentally Enhanced Demon Worshippers scanned Angels (happened more than once)

Anyway, Fury, what i meant was both angels know each other and both inquisitors know each other. But for the demons, the seer doesn't know each other. Hence you only need to find out by deceiving one side of the demon that are able to find out your inquisitors/angels because they will only see you as a demon after scanning you. If you understand what i meant. But Demon seers on the other hand would be reluctant to PM the one they scanned as cleared because that person might turn out to be the other side of the angels/inquisitors. That's a huge imbalance if you ask me. And of course it can be offset if the angels do not know each other and they have the chance to only kill when the GM say they have.

Demons knew each other. The ones who had a partner from the start were the Angels, the Church Inquisitors and the Demons. Perhaps I should have also made it that way for the Menthally Enhanced Demon Worshippers, but did not seem necessary from an RP point, so I finally dropped the idea.

Anyways, a very important thing were also the RPs sent to the bodyguards. It was their way to scan, and could reveal a lot if read properly. The bad side: that it needed to be interpretated. I will probably post the messages I sent to everyone and the different RPs, for you to understand. It is always good to know what was going on in secret 

[egamma]

As for the no-kill night, I sent my vote in too late (10 minutes). Very busy week at work (this week and next week). My company does an insane amount of business on Black Friday/Cyber Monday, and as one of the server admins, things have been pretty busy. I was up Friday night until midnight work and then worked from 4:30 to 5:30am Saturday morning, adding capacity to our server farm (yay vmware!).

[Penchant]

To the Penchant is our spy comment, though Elegant did send he order to scan Fury the first night it seemed the GM never gave him his scan as the following day he asked if I thought Fury was evil and he said he would be scanning him again, so when I sent him the PM, I just hoped he was good because I needed the voter support.