Southern War of Nobility (Civil war in Madina)

[Chenier]

I must agree with Madina's government. Last time I spoke to them about that claim on Paisly, the ruler was like "Well, it's everyone's right to hold claims, and the government can't deny it, so you'd have to convince the person in question to drop the claim or we can't otherwise promise not to go to war to enforce it".

Which reminded me of the days of the war. "Oh, I don't really want to fight you, but my lords do, so I can't stop them."

Yea, that was rather annoying. Our ties with Verdis Elementum is what got us out of that war, as once Caerwyn backed off Madina had little choice. Madina has never shown any desire to build a true peace with us, really.

The isles have always favoured stronger rulers. One guy even left the realm completely when the realm switched to a republic, and a few others grumbled. Needless to say, I have great autonomy in my reign.

[Phellan]

Its really an excellent system honestly - the Lords can pressure the Dukes, the Dukes can pressure the Ruler.    It's not a Top-down effect, of nobles being told what they are doing.  It's the Lords (and their knights) telling the Dukes and Rulers what they want to have happen.

The problem is of course, a good ruler is required in this system, one who can work with the Dukes/Lords and convince them that things are worthwhile.   

Well - really now, getting Caerwyn to back off was the important thing.   Madina wasn't REALLY the threat at all, we can only hit Paisly so many times . . . getting Caerwyn on your side was the back breaker, and an excellent diplomatic move.   

Lets be honest as well, if we had a good peace with Terran and D'Hara, like we do with Fissoa. . . well.  We'd never have anyone to fight.  Ever.   Terran's about as far north as we can go, even with Mercenary troop settings.   

Much better to have uneasy peace with D'Hara and Terran, knowing that a diplomatic folly on either side could end them up in another war.   But, speaking more bluntly, none of our Realms have the character count to conduct an extended war.  It was tough to do when we had 35-40 nobles, but at 15?    We'll just sit in Madina or the Tower and let you come to us thanks.

[Vellos]

If Terran and D'Hara wanted to, we could have 4-6,000 CS attacking Madina from either side in the spring. And we could do that two or three times over the course of the summer and autumn as well.

Madina's reach may be quite limited, but Terran and D'Hara together have, in their immediate backyards, fielded 10,000 CS together, and regularly deploy smaller but still significant detachments. Just this week Terran, D'Hara, and Barca had about 6,000 or 7,000 CS clearing out Barca's lands, and many of those troops have been deployed at long range for several weeks: i.e. could have been attacking Tower Fatmilak.

A dubiously friendly Madina is, however, quite entertaining. I enjoy having pirates in the south.

[songqu88@gmail.com]

It's quite something when 10000 CS mobile between two realms is considered formidable by any means.

[Vellos]

Heh, by other continents' standards (or those of other parts of Dwilight) that is indeed a small force.

But, frankly, when the entire combined CS of the belligerents in the Madinan Civil War is only about 11,000 CS, Terran and D'Hara having deployable armies of that size is significant.

[Phellan]

True, but don't underestimate how tough it is to hit Madina - when we attacked Paisly we needed nigh 15K to break their defense t - just because the trip is so awkwardly long (70-80 hours for a unit with a Siege Engine).   Tower Fatmilak is the better choice to hit, especially given that most of the lands along the coast are now colonized.

But again, you'll need SE to do it which means your nobles have a long, slow journey.   And that leaves Barca and other regions open to being destroyed by rogue spawns.   

Could Terran and D'Hara do it?  Of course. . . are there significant risks involved?  Definately.    Though to be honest, I'm working my hardest to avoid that at the moment.    We just got Madina back, we're not really in any state to fight a war.

[De-Legro]

True, but don't underestimate how tough it is to hit Madina - when we attacked Paisly we needed nigh 15K to break their defense t - just because the trip is so awkwardly long (70-80 hours for a unit with a Siege Engine).   Tower Fatmilak is the better choice to hit, especially given that most of the lands along the coast are now colonized.

But again, you'll need SE to do it which means your nobles have a long, slow journey.   And that leaves Barca and other regions open to being destroyed by rogue spawns.   

Could Terran and D'Hara do it?  Of course. . . are there significant risks involved?  Definately.    Though to be honest, I'm working my hardest to avoid that at the moment.    We just got Madina back, we're not really in any state to fight a war.

Best factor against it, trying to co-ordinate a force to arrive at the same time over those kind of distances. Most realms struggle to land their force on a three turn move already.

[Phellan]

Best factor against it, trying to co-ordinate a force to arrive at the same time over those kind of distances. Most realms struggle to land their force on a three turn move already.

Actually the most fun part is giving SMA-appropriate orders while coordinating a 8-10 turn move.  Nevermind that whoever you're attacking can see you from about 5 turns out -.-   You KNOW there is no surprise element going to help you out.

[Indirik]

Best factor against it, trying to co-ordinate a force to arrive at the same time over those kind of distances. Most realms struggle to land their force on a three turn move already.

The "Don't arrive this turn" button is very helpful with that. Given that, *no one* should ever mess up a two-turn move. And probably not a three-turn move, either. When you get longer than that, all bets are off. The varied hours people get, plus the travel bonuses and delays, throw off most efforts at detailed planning.

[Phellan]

Ahhhh, this is by far my singular, most favourite peace of diplomacy I've done in a while.

Letter from Mendicant Anhangar 
What commentary is needed?

You either desire peace, or you don't.

Mendicant Anhangar
High Sovereign of Aurvandil, Duke of Candiels

Duke:

You and your people are traitors, the only peace you will have with us is one negotiated by your allies.

Vallyn Rothach
Grand Doge of Madina, Marshal of the Madina Republican Army

Straight forward, and to the point. Do we want peace. . .pft.   Where's the fun in that?   If Terran and D'Hara would let us we'd be in Candiels already!

[Chenier]

Ahhhh, this is by far my singular, most favourite peace of diplomacy I've done in a while.

Straight forward, and to the point. Do we want peace. . .pft.   Where's the fun in that?   If Terran and D'Hara would let us we'd be in Candiels already!

He overestimates how far his "allies" are willing to go for his cause, too...

I'll let Marche have a say in how the situation evolves, though. He'll be taking over tonight, I believe.

[Nathan]

It'll be nice to finally have Candiels back, give us a place to plonk all of those excess nobles we've gained in the last couple of days

[Vellos]

I'm finding this Madinan Civil War to be phenomenally entertaining, actually. Terran's Senate hasn't had this much back-and-forth in a long time, what with major diplomatic events occurring within our federation, on the Asylon/Caerwyn border, the hissy-fit between Luria Nova and Fissoa, the Madinan Civil War, and various other issues. It has been an eventful autumn.

[Nosferatus]

I'm finding this Madinan Civil War to be phenomenally entertaining, actually. Terran's Senate hasn't had this much back-and-forth in a long time, what with major diplomatic events occurring within our federation, on the Asylon/Caerwyn border, the hissy-fit between Luria Nova and Fissoa, the Madinan Civil War, and various other issues. It has been an eventful autumn.

For us even more, finally someone to really hate.
Don't you guys miss that feeling, of REALLY hating your enemy?
That you just want to put robe around there neck and pull them underneath your boat...

It will also be fun if we don't manage to keelhaul them.
These will be some nasty refugees, where ever they'll go next, they will do this again.
Dwilight is so vast that eventually someone will take em in, IF they manage to escape Madinas wrath that is.

[Karnen]

For us even more, finally someone to really hate.
Don't you guys miss that feeling, of REALLY hating your enemy?
That you just want to put robe around there neck and pull them underneath your boat...

It will also be fun if we don't manage to keelhaul them.
These will be some nasty refugees, where ever they'll go next, they will do this again.
Dwilight is so vast that eventually someone will take em in, IF they manage to escape Madinas wrath that is.

I think Aurvandil might be in more trouble since Shin just got elected ruler!! He's like the most hardass Fissoan nobles when it comes to being medieval I reckon.