Southern War of Nobility (Civil war in Madina)

[Chenier]

If the game says one thing, then that is what is correct. Doesn't always look optimal, but that has always been Tom's stance.

[Sacha]

So if history carries over, does that mean Madina should treat Jens as a traitor as well as a Lord? After all, he was both of those things in BoM

[Laurens88]

Tsss....Calling my a drill-instructor, drill-instructors are scary (I know) I'm a nice guy, most of the time 

Yes I write orders fast, yes I do not have much time at the moment and sometimes I forget/ignore messages (writing my thessis) so pardon me for not making perfect 100% sma letters. Then on the title part for the player of Jens, btw thanks for the scout reports 

I checked your title, it clearly states knight and not Lord of some region but knight. You started as a Citizen in Madina, you become a knight under a liege and you can become a Lord again when you have your own land. Holding on to previous titles from other Continents is the same a new player who demands he is called prince. Because where he comes from his father is King of oempa doemba land.

[Jens Namtrah]

Guys, it really doesn't have anything to do with Game Mechanics. It's all role play. I'm sure Vallyn considers himself to be the rightful Ruler of the lands in the Duchy of Candiels, right? Even though Game Mechanics clearly show he isn't? Isn't that what our war is about? Isn't Mendicant just a pretender in his eyes?

In Makar, we do the "viking exile" thing, like why Erik the Red wandered off. He killed some people, so they told him to get out of town for a few years until things cooled off.

Jens' nephew was immediately appointed the next Lord of Melmoor, it was rp'd that he was in charge of the Namtrah clan fortune for now, and Jens is welcome to come back as soon as he promises to behave - at which time he'll probably take up the lordship again. He's not a "traitor" in Makar - he could go back right now.

Why would you want to kill off all of that role play in a roleplaying game because the word "lord" doesn't print out next his name from the code, and he has to type it in himself?  There is nothing worse for this game than jumping in with "game mechanics trump" where there's no need, especially as GM are so inconsistent and controversial at times anyways.

If Vallyn wants to RP in the way he is, he's welcome too. He just hasn't; none of the lords have. They haven't explained it at all.

They think Jens is trustworthy enough to send on special missions, seem to believe everything else he says, apparently are considering making him the next Duke of Candiel if I read that right, and yet think he is lying about something as commonplace in this game as being a lord where he came from.  That doesn't make any sense to me.

[Jens Namtrah]

Tsss....Calling my a drill-instructor, drill-instructors are scary (I know) I'm a nice guy, most of the time 

Yes I write orders fast, yes I do not have much time at the moment and sometimes I forget/ignore messages (writing my thessis) so pardon me for not making perfect 100% sma letters. Then on the title part for the player of Jens, btw thanks for the scout reports 

I checked your title, it clearly states knight and not Lord of some region but knight. You started as a Citizen in Madina, you become a knight under a liege and you can become a Lord again when you have your own land. Holding on to previous titles from other Continents is the same a new player who demands he is called prince. Because where he comes from his father is King of oempa doemba land.

Lauren, I've already said at least once in this thread I was not referring to you.

[Sacha]

Guys, it really doesn't have anything to do with Game Mechanics. It's all role play.

Roleplay is defined by game mechanics. Jens can claim anything he wants, but unless mechanics back him up, nobody's forced to believe him.

I can tell you now that if someone walked into Luria Nova with a history of sabotage against his own realm, who then started demanding we call him Lord, he'd be ridiculed and quite possibly told to bugger off.

[Jens Namtrah]

Roleplay is defined by game mechanics. Jens can claim anything he wants, but unless mechanics back him up, nobody's forced to believe him.

I can tell you now that if someone walked into Luria Nova with a history of sabotage against his own realm, who then started demanding we call him Lord, he'd be ridiculed and quite possibly told to bugger off.

Good. You can do that.

They haven't. They haven't roleplayed a thing about it.

I don't find this game all that interesting for its game mechanics. I enjoy building stories, and like other players to at least show a reaction - whatever they want it to be - to the stories. Not just ignore it in-game and justify it OOC by pointing at game mechanics.

As Chenier said recently, I'm not here just to entertain you. I'm not really all that hung up about the lord title, per se, but about the way it is being dealt with. If you can't give a minimum back in the form of a reaction to my efforts then I will bugger off, and someone else can do your dangerous missions and run your estates for you.

[fodder]

what do you mean they haven't roleplayed a thing about it? your character claimed he's a lord and the others laughed at it due to a complete lack of evidence (right?) that's roleplay.

[vonGenf]

Have they laughed at it in game, or in the forum? The forum isn't a free fifth character.

[Phellan]

i think that's a matter of what you consider Roleplay - Vallyn's been quite clear in how he addresses you, which is part of how you can determine where you stand with him.

At first you were "Noble", then "Knight" - now after the last bit you're up to "Sir Jens".     He's quite deliberately not called you Lord, but he has modified how he addresses you depending on how he is feeling about you are standing in the Realm.   My use of titles in messages is probably a key to my dwilight RP.   Mendicant is never "King Mendicant" always "Duke", because I refuse to acknowledge him as anything but a traitorous Duke.     As Jens raises in my prestige he will get more affable and pleasant addresses, along with more suggestions rather than instructions.

As for the Duke part   Well, I'd rather see Halicos take that and someone like Jens get Panabuk or Fatmilak.    But that's up to the Grand Council at the end of the day.

[Geronus]

My question is, why would Madinan nobles feel compelled to recognize a title that was bestowed by a realm that is on a whole other continent, with whom they have no diplomatic relations or other dealings? That's like a Chinese guy strolling into a pub in medieval London, loudly claiming he was the Grand Poobah of North China, and demanding to be treated like royalty. He would probably have been laughed out of the building, if not beaten senseless.

See, that's my RP interpretation. But which one of us is right? The answer: Neither. RP in this game is a collaborative process. You can't just pretend something works a certain way and then demand that everyone agree with your interpretation. Other people have a right to their own interpretations, thank you very much, and that doesn't make them wrong.

[Chenier]

In my opinion, your logic is faulty. A lord of Britain going to the kingdom of Yuggoslavia would likely be treated and respected as a lord.

The problem is, you aren't a lord anymore. *Someone else* is now lord of that region you once governed. You are a lord of nothing, asking to be recognized as the lord of someone else's property.

[Phellan]

In my opinion, your logic is faulty. A lord of Britain going to the kingdom of Yuggoslavia would likely be treated and respected as a lord.

The problem is, you aren't a lord anymore. *Someone else* is now lord of that region you once governed. You are a lord of nothing, asking to be recognized as the lord of someone else's property.

I concur on both points.

[songqu88@gmail.com]

My question is, why would Madinan nobles feel compelled to recognize a title that was bestowed by a realm that is on a whole other continent, with whom they have no diplomatic relations or other dealings? That's like a Chinese guy strolling into a pub in medieval London, loudly claiming he was the Grand Poobah of North China, and demanding to be treated like royalty. He would probably have been laughed out of the building, if not beaten senseless.

See, that's my RP interpretation. But which one of us is right? The answer: Neither. RP in this game is a collaborative process. You can't just pretend something works a certain way and then demand that everyone agree with your interpretation. Other people have a right to their own interpretations, thank you very much, and that doesn't make them wrong.

Mm...reference the Himoura family for an example of a clear exception to that final point you made. Sometimes, RP gets a bit overzealous for some people.

[Jens Namtrah]

It's late, and my little two day vacation because of the typhoon passing through is over  so will only mention for now:

In-game, it is obvious to me that the players in my realm read my concerns and are doing some changes/being a little more active and open with their chars, and with a little new blood we just got it looks like Madina is shaping up to be a very fun place to play. So, a big thank you for that, and I'll try to hold up my end as well.

Interesting discussion from a more general perspective, but might be better in a different thread (and for me, a different time). Maybe I'll start a new thread on game mechs vs. role play sometime - I can see that going on for a few pages :-p