This should not happen

[pcw27]

So, my realm was still in a federation with a dead realm which was causing moral problems because apparently our peasants didn't like Kambriskia. I broke away from our federation with them and it auto kicked me out of the entire federation which automatically made them declare war on me.

That is freaking stupid on so many levels. First off whether or not to declare war when you break a federation should be up to the members of that federation. Second when a realm is dead diplomatic ties should disappear anyway. Third when you're about to do something that will cause a war there should be some sort of "this will cause a war are you sure you want to do that?"

[Sacha]

First off, if you sign a federations, you accept the conditions that come with it, one of which is an automatic  declaration of war against the remaining members upon your leaving. Second, dead realms are manually removed by Tom, so it can take a while for them to disappear. Third, I assume you are the ruler of Iashalur. Automatic war declarations for leaving a federation are not a new addition to the game. I'd say not knowing the consequences of your actions as ruler is your own fault.

[pcw27]

1. Absolutely no diplomatic relations should be automatic except for neutrality to a new realm. That is bad game mechanics plain and simple. If a federation want's its policy to be war with any realm that breaks from the federation that should be up to the players of the ruling characters to uphold the treaty.


2. I shouldn't have to consult the wiki every time I do something. When other realms broke from federations the message was "War will likely commence" which suggests that they have the option of not declaring war. When I joined the Federation it did not inform me in any way that the federation would be unbreakable.

[LilWolf]

Second, dead realms are manually removed by Tom, so it can take a while for them to disappear.

Perhaps a better way of handling dead realms would be in order. Like, if the realm has 0 regions, it's automatically gone in two weeks or something.

[Anaris]

1. Absolutely no diplomatic relations should be automatic except for neutrality to a new realm. That is bad game mechanics plain and simple. If a federation want's its policy to be war with any realm that breaks from the federation that should be up to the players of the ruling characters to uphold the treaty.


2. I shouldn't have to consult the wiki every time I do something. When other realms broke from federations the message was "War will likely commence" which suggests that they have the option of not declaring war. When I joined the Federation it did not inform me in any way that the federation would be unbreakable.

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion, but that doesn't change the fact that a) federations do this, have done so for years, and are not going to change just because you don't like the auto-war declaration that is an intended part of the feature, and b) as ruler, it is your responsibility to familiarize yourself with the options you are using.

It may not be reasonable to require all 1000-odd players to read all the manual info on the Wiki, but I do not believe it is at all unreasonable to require those very few players who have attained the highest position in the game to learn what the buttons they push are going to do before they push them.

[pcw27]

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion, but that doesn't change the fact that a) federations do this, have done so for years, and are not going to change just because you don't like the auto-war declaration that is an intended part of the feature, and b) as ruler, it is your responsibility to familiarize yourself with the options you are using.

It may not be reasonable to require all 1000-odd players to read all the manual info on the Wiki, but I do not believe it is at all unreasonable to require those very few players who have attained the highest position in the game to learn what the buttons they push are going to do before they push them.

Is it so hard to just add (this results in automatic war) to that button? Or to update the federation broken message to not be so misleading?

Most huge decisions in battle master have a "are you sure you want to do this" section in case of a missclick. Why on earth would an action that can automatically get you into multiple wars be exempt form this?

[pcw27]

Perhaps a better way of handling dead realms would be in order. Like, if the realm has 0 regions, it's automatically gone in two weeks or something.

Or how about a feature by which a realm can be kicked out of a federation? Seems like that's impossible right now.

[Zakilevo]

Funny stuff. This is exactly why you carefully choose who to form a federation with.

I wonder if Iashlur will suffer like Aurvandil.

[pcw27]

No it's not. You want to be careful who you join a federation with in case of actual political incompatibilities not because someone hit the wrong button.

Iashalur should be just fine because I immediately roleplayed that the mistake was the result of an anarchist scribe who slipped the papers to dissolve the federation in with a bunch of other stuff I was signing. (scribes are always great scape goats for mistakes made in game).

That's exactly why this is such poorly designed mechanics. There's no advantage to accidentally declaring war, and there's no advantage to a dead realm draining your moral. Everything's going to be bungled, possibly for weeks, for absolutely no reason.

[Zakilevo]

It is poorly designed. More like out dated. I am sure once all the coding transition is done, it will be updated eventually...

[Sacha]

No it's not. You want to be careful who you join a federation with in case of actual political incompatibilities not because someone hit the wrong button.

Iashalur should be just fine because I immediately roleplayed that the mistake was the result of an anarchist scribe who slipped the papers to dissolve the federation in with a bunch of other stuff I was signing. (scribes are always great scape goats for mistakes made in game).

That's exactly why this is such poorly designed mechanics. There's no advantage to accidentally declaring war, and there's no advantage to a dead realm draining your moral. Everything's going to be bungled, possibly for weeks, for absolutely no reason.

Why shouldn't peasants be upset about a destroyed realm? A nation may not exist on paper, but it still exists in the hearts and minds of people, to put it cheesily. Dismay doesn't just vanish instantly once its subject ceases to exist.

[Draco Tanos]

Honestly, it does make sense that morale (that's the right way to spell it btw) would drop.  A federation is not a mere alliance.  It is declaring that your realms are united.  You ARE one overarching realm, essentially.  So when one portion of said federation is destroyed?  Yeah...  It'd be like a country losing half of itself to an enemy force.  That wouldn't make the commoners too keen on the situation.

[Indirik]

The only advantage of a federation over an alliance is the automatic war declaration when someone leaves the federation. That's really the only reason to create a federation in the first place.

[Chenier]

The only advantage of a federation over an alliance is the automatic war declaration when someone leaves the federation. That's really the only reason to create a federation in the first place.

Indeed.

[pcw27]

Honestly, it does make sense that morale (that's the right way to spell it btw) would drop.  A federation is not a mere alliance.  It is declaring that your realms are united.  You ARE one overarching realm, essentially.  So when one portion of said federation is destroyed?  Yeah...  It'd be like a country losing half of itself to an enemy force.  That wouldn't make the commoners too keen on the situation.

You haven't read very carefully. Moral didn't drop when we broke the alliance it was being hurt because of the continued alliance with a realm that didn't exist.

An allied realm being destroyed doesn't effect moral at all.

The only advantage of a federation over an alliance is the automatic war declaration when someone leaves the federation. That's really the only reason to create a federation in the first place.

There should be a function by which one realm can be forced out of a federation by the other realms. Maybe "propose expulsion" If a enough realms in the federation agree the realm gets expelled from the federation.