And a new realm lives!

[Woelfy]

* Woelfy facepalms.

Pike, you really just don't seem to understand the issue at hand. Nor do you understand what the catalyst for any of this was, even with your 'submitted letters' from Bowie.

At this point, I am done trying to explain it.

Like I've said before, if you want some p.c., equal, cuddlefest...


Go buy the Sims.

[Thalryn]

I have a question for those who have been reading this and for anyone Actually in Swordfell.  From the way you see things does it sound like Swordfell has broken from  the Serious Medieval Atmosphere because it wants to create a realm where its nobles can speak without regard for Rank being an issue if it is done respectfully.  Where a knight can openly disagree with a Duke and it not bee the end of the world.  This is also given the fact that it states in the laws that everyone is free to speak.

Woefly please do not chime in on this quite yet.  I would like to here from some others first.

Yes, I do think it has broken from the idea of SMA. In my mind much of the SMA 'transgression' comes from how the conflict was handled. It's just too much. It's just aggravating.

And Bowie, that's fine if that's your justifications but you could at least be considerate of other players. Wailing from day 1 of swordfell's creation has made the whole thing really unpleasant, regardless of who has contributed to the unpleasantries. I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way.

[Ironsides]

...Wailing from day 1 of swordfell's creation has made the whole thing really unpleasant, regardless of who has contributed to the unpleasantries...

Well it's not like I started the conflict middle fingers flying. It began with a request, then it turned into a disagreement, and then an argument and then an ultimatum, and THAT'S when it went public. I attempted my end of "negotiating" but I also know when to draw a line and back it up.

...Go buy the Sims.

Or you could just leave Swordfell. All of us want to play together fairly, equally, and communally. Sevastian is not a team player because he obsesses over his lands and personal status too much. We can't have a community with an autocrat. That right there's the gist of the whole fishfry.

[Indirik]

The ability for everyone in the realm to speak their mind, within the limits of respect an courtesy, is important for all realms. I think is a core concept for BattleMaster, and is vital to an enjoyable game. I have never seen a realm that tries to limit free speech beyond the "be courteous" guideline. I don't think that this requires any kind of "we're all equal" nonsense. I suppose it could be an idea for some democratic realm concept... but it seems like it would be very easy to go too far with it.

[Dishman]

From the way you see things does it sound like Swordfell has broken from  the Serious Medieval Atmosphere  because it wants to create a realm where its nobles can speak without  regard for Rank

I don't think it breaks SMA. It is serious, it is antiquity (although perhaps more Roman/Greek BCE than medieval). It sets atmosphere. So far, the only people slinging insults and demands are those in power. A ruler-elect and a steward-elect are about equal station and can be expected to mud sling.

Honestly, the 'speaking without regard for Rank' is more of a 'dang...that looks pretty on paper'. We are a republic. If the tops don't like what someone on the bottom has to say, no one has power to stop them from throwing that rule out the window. It sets a dynamic that is absent, I think. Other realms, everyone knows they'll get hell for being a dick to the king...in a free-speech republic, you get enough rope to hang yourself.

[Pike]

* Woelfy facepalms.

Pike, you really just don't seem to understand the issue at hand. Nor do you understand what the
Like I've said before, if you want some p.c., equal, cuddlefest...

I don't want a freaking cuddlefest.  What I would like is a since of community where the whole community works together and can have heated discussions where it doesent end in I am the duke so I win since you are only a knight.  If the Duke is being an ass he should be called on it.   I will agree right now there are a there are a decent amount who are getting what they deserve.  Sevastian and Bowie both deserve to be taken out for a bit.

[Woelfy]

A.   I don't think it breaks SMA. It is serious, it is antiquity (although perhaps more Roman/Greek BCE than medieval).

B.   So far, the only people slinging insults and demands are those in power. A ruler-elect and a steward-elect are about equal station and can be expected to mud sling.

A. It is serious, and it is antiquity, but it is not medieval. A knight speaking out of station to a Duke would have been a pretty big slight.

B. Bowie isn't in power. He was elected in an early election and did not take the necessary actions to become the seceding Duke when it would have been /very/ easy for him to do so. He may be ruler-elect, but Sevastian isn't a steward-elect, he is the steward. He has royal status within the realm as such. Huzzah mechanics.

Well it's not like I started the conflict middle fingers flying. It began with a request, then it turned into a disagreement, and then an argument and then an ultimatum, and THAT'S when it went public. I attempted my end of "negotiating" but I also know when to draw a line and back it up.

Or you could just leave Swordfell. All of us want to play together fairly, equally, and communally. Sevastian is not a team player because he obsesses over his lands and personal status too much. We can't have a community with an autocrat. That right there's the gist of the whole fishfry.

Yeah, you pretty much did start the thing with middle fingers flying man, Sevastian was beyond understanding and conciliatory. The first bit of private messages was nothing but Sevastian asking you to stick to the original plan. Bowie's first private message was a statement of no patience and a demand to step down.

You cannot say you were polite or courteous with a straight face, otherwise, you really should play in Luria.

And I could just leave Swordfell? Right, because my character is going to give up his stronghold, duchy, allies, and powerbase. All because Bowie throws a tantrum immediately after secession. That's totally logical. Yes, he is worried more about his own domain than the lands belonging to Duchess Abbigal, but those are /her/ lands. It isn't Sevastian's place to overlook lands that have sworn allegiance to someone else. That would be rather rude. As a Fellian person, he cares about the well-being of the realm, but to aid in that he needs to do his job as Duke, just as Duchess Pike needs to do hers over her own lands.

* Woelfy smacks Bowie Ironsides with a trout.

I don't want a freaking cuddlefest.  What I would like is a since of community where the whole community works together and can have heated discussions where it doesent end in I am the duke so I win since you are only a knight.  If the Duke is being an ass he should be called on it.   I will agree right now there are a there are a decent amount who are getting what they deserve.  Sevastian and Bowie both deserve to be taken out for a bit.

I'm all for a sense of working community with heated discussions. The duke has not once said 'I'm a duke so I win'. The duke has called people out on not giving the proper respect and showing some damned patience. Massive difference. Sevastian has always maintained autonomous Ducal power, was promised it by Ingi and Bowie, and isn't quite like a regular Duke anyway. I won't deny he has turned into a stubborn and obstinate ass, but it is completely reactionary to the fact that Bowie demanded Sevastian step down from his Ducal and Lordship seats immediately. (yeah, the same seats he had previously promised to Sevastian)

 

The ability for everyone in the realm to speak their mind, within the limits of respect an courtesy, is important for all realms. I think is a core concept for BattleMaster, and is vital to an enjoyable game. I have never seen a realm that tries to limit free speech beyond the "be courteous" guideline. I don't think that this requires any kind of "we're all equal" nonsense. I suppose it could be an idea for some democratic realm concept... but it seems like it would be very easy to go too far with it.

I agree, and have no problem for people speaking their mind. Nor is Sevastian looking to limit free speech. Unless you look at "limiting free speech" as nobles speaking as nobles appropriately befitting their relative station within the hierarchy.

[Thalryn]

Or you could just leave Swordfell. All of us want to play together fairly, equally, and communally. Sevastian is not a team player because he obsesses over his lands and personal status too much. We can't have a community with an autocrat. That right there's the gist of the whole fishfry.

Speak for yourself. If he leaves it's only fair that you leave too. Looking at the actions of the characters, both Sevastian and Bowie have behaved horribly. Obviously I will always stand by Sevastian since I swore fealty to him but if one is punished then both should be.

[Penchant]

I don't think your idea of equality in republics/democracies is valid. All nobles are *not* equal, regardless of government style. Unless you go with the "some people are more equal than others" philosophy.

Poorly said on my part. In republics/democracies they have equal say and thus the duke has more authority and can order a knight around so they are not equal in that respect but they are equal I would say in that a knight has equal respect. Now that is 100% what I mean but Woelfy is basically saying if Bowie was higher up the hierarchy that what he is saying would be ok but as he is saying this to someone of higher station he disrespecting him.

[Penchant]

Speak for yourself. If he leaves it's only fair that you leave too. Looking at the actions of the characters, both Sevastian and Bowie have behaved horribly. Obviously I will always stand by Sevastian since I swore fealty to him but if one is punished then both should be.

Not really, as though Bowie may be acting childish overall, if Sevastion was out of the picture this would not be happening but if Bowie was out of the picture the other person elected would being doing the same thing in a less childish manner.

[Woelfy]

Poorly said on my part. In republics/democracies they have equal say and thus the duke has more authority and can order a knight around so they are not equal in that respect but they are equal I would say in that a knight has equal respect. Now that is 100% what I mean but Woelfy is basically saying if Bowie was higher up the hierarchy that what he is saying would be ok but as he is saying this to someone of higher station he disrespecting him.

Nope. I am saying the content of his particular letters, regardless of station, were rude and disrespectful. It is even more heinous that it comes from someone only holding the title of 'Knight'

[Penchant]

I'm all for a sense of working community with heated discussions. The duke has not once said 'I'm a duke so I win'. The duke has called people out on not giving the proper respect and showing some damned patience. Massive difference. Sevastian has always maintained autonomous Ducal power, was promised it by Ingi and Bowie, and isn't quite like a regular Duke anyway. I won't deny he has turned into a stubborn and obstinate ass, but it is completely reactionary to the fact that Bowie demanded Sevastian step down from his Ducal and Lordship seats immediately. (yeah, the same seats he had previously promised to Sevastian)

You aren't saying I am a duke so I win, instead you are basically saying, I am a duke so he can't talk to me like that, which IMO is the same thing. Also by creating division between your entire realm and basically trying to make them pick a side from what I have read anyways, which does not help with making a sense of community.

Yes, he is worried more about his own domain than the lands belonging to Duchess Abbigal, but those are /her/ lands. It isn't Sevastian's place to overlook lands that have sworn allegiance to someone else. That would be rather rude. As a Fellian person, he cares about the well-being of the realm, but to aid in that he needs to do his job as Duke, just as Duchess Pike needs to do hers over her own lands.

Basically the whole issue with this logic is that based on what you are saying, ruler does not need to care about it as none of it is his domain based on your logic. You like to say that I am steward, not official ruler, but steward still rules over entire realm and it is all his domain to work on as steward.

Nope. I am saying the content of his particular letters, regardless of station, were rude and disrespectful. It is even more heinous that it comes from someone only holding the title of 'Knight'

A knight speaking out of station to a Duke would have been a pretty big slight.

That's not really how you have been portraying it as, IMO.

[Woelfy]

Meh, whatever. This Ooc discussion of IC matters is bugging me. I'm moving forward.

I'm unfortunately out of hours this turn, but I am looking forward to what the next 12-16 hours bring.

Now, decision time: should Sevastian just keep the crown? Penalty is still high (unbelievably so IMHO). But he could very easily cement his hold. Hell, he could just exile Bowie. It's not like Bowie has much h/p to stick around too long.

Decisions... Decisions...

[Vellos]

The ability for everyone in the realm to speak their mind, within the limits of respect an courtesy, is important for all realms. I think is a core concept for BattleMaster, and is vital to an enjoyable game. I have never seen a realm that tries to limit free speech beyond the "be courteous" guideline. I don't think that this requires any kind of "we're all equal" nonsense. I suppose it could be an idea for some democratic realm concept... but it seems like it would be very easy to go too far with it.

Oligarch banned the use of the word "Avamar" outside of strategic discussions pertaining to the region itself after Rubber Ducky failed to maintain control of Old Rancagua and the Avamarians got bitter at having no prospect of ever having a homeland again. Fines and bans happened.

[Ironsides]

* Woelfy smacks Bowie Ironsides with a trout.

See, now that's funny! :p