The Future of Atamara (Post-Great Atamaran War)

[LilWolf]

Heh, looking terms what Eston got, future of Atamara looks pretty boring for next year or so... cant wait what nice demands CE will show to Darka at some point.

Yeah. They're pretty much building things for the north to be a bore fest for the next year. And with the way the south is I doubt you'll see much war from there either.

[Geronus]

Anyone care to share? I'm quite curious.

[jaune]

The Treaty of Hawthorne

I. Preamble

I.a. WHEREAS the Kingdom of Eston has allowed one of its infiltrators to brutally attack the leaders of Coria, Tara, Talerium, and the Cagilan Empire, and then let the perpetrator escape Atamara without punishment.

I.b. WHEREAS King Kerwin of Eston has previously asked for the Duchy of Eaglin during peace negotiations.

I.c. WHEREAS King Kerwin has offered to the Cagilan Empire the UNCONDITIONAL SURRENDER of his realm.

I.d. THEREFORE the Cagilan Empire, on behalf of her allies in this conflict (Talerium, Tara, and Strombran) and herself, offers the following terms of peace to Eston.

II. Exiles

II.a. The Cagilan Empire and her allies hold Royal Justiciar Athena to be primarily responsible for catching and punishing the infiltrator who assaulted our leaders. This is a task that she had promised she would carry out, but she had failed to do so.

II.b. The Cagilan Empire, on behalf of her allies Talerium and Tara, demands that Royal Justiciar Athena immediately resign her positions and titles in Eston, and exile herself from Atamara, never to return. This clause of the treaty must be fulfilled as soon as possible after the signing of the treaty.

II.c. The Cagilan Empire, on behalf of her allies Talerium and Tara, demands that King Kerwin, after fulfilling the terms in section III of this treaty, immediately resign his positions and titles in Eston, and exile himself from Atamara, never to return. The remaining nobles of Eston may then elect a new Ruler of their choosing, but they are still bound by the terms of this treaty.

II.d. This exile will NOT extend to other members of their families.

III. Territory

III.a. Eston will formally, publicly, and permanently release the Duchy of Hawthorne as an independent realm. The new realm will consist of the regions of Hawthorne, Agnilar, Loratil, Slantrax, Saradic, and Melias. Its nobles may choose a realm name other than “Hawthorne” if they wish, provided that it is not profane. Its nobles may choose their Ruler and government system as they wish, but they are still bound by the terms of this treaty.

III.b. Eston will formally, publicly, and permanently cede the region of Nazamroth to Talerium.

III.c. Eston will formally, publicly, and permanently cede the region of Anost to Coria.

III.d. Eston will formally, publicly, and permanently cede to Rieleston the following regions: Ashmoor, Beleground, and Elost.

III.e. Eston will formally, publicly, and permanently cede the region of Nazia to the Cagilan Empire.

III.f. The Cagilan Empire recognizes Eston's continuing claims to the following regions: Dondor, Amdor, Meneriel, and Barad Lacirith.

III.g. Eston has twelve (12) days after the signing of the treaty to fulfill the clauses in this section of the treaty, one day for each region that Eston is being forced to cede.

IV. Diplomacy

IV.a. Eston will break her diplomatic ties with Darka and the Barony of Makar. Eston may not ally with Darka or the Barony of Makar for a period of at least six (6) months.

IV.b. Hawthorne may not ally with Darka or the Barony of Makar for a period of at least six (6) months.

IV.c. Eston and Hawthorne will NOT give military passage rights to Darka or the Barony of Makar, for a period of at least six (6) months.

IV.d. Eston and Hawthorne will adopt a diplomatic status of peace or better with Talerium, Tara, Strombran, Coria, Rieleston, and the Cagilan Empire, for a period of at least nine (9) months.

IV.e. Eston and Hawthorne will give full passage rights to Talerium, Tara, Strombran, Coria, Rieleston, and the Cagilan Empire, for a period of at least nine (9) months.

IV.f. Eston and Hawthorne will NOT be made into vassals or protectorates. After a period of nine (9) months, they are free to change their diplomatic policies as they see fit.

IV.g. If Eston or Hawthorne is attacked without provocation within the next six (6) months, the Cagilan Empire will offer her protection to them, provided that the Cagilan Empire is not already busy aiding an ally.

V. War Reparations

V.a. The Cagilan Empire and her allies do not demand monetary compensation from Eston.

[Geronus]

Eh, I see plenty of scope for future conflicts, just not any within the next six to nine months due to the protection clause. It seems likely to me that Eston's successor realms will end up fighting each other at some point. Plus I am going to put odds on Darka being completely broken up in a similar fashion into at least three realms, possibly BoM as well. That will create a whole mess of small and borderline unsustainable realms in the North that will have lots of incentive to fight each other because a) they will need to expand to make themselves sustainable, and b) they won't be strong enough to take on anyone but each other.

Bottom line: Eston, Rieleston and Hawthorne are unlikely to be involved in any wars for the next 6-9 months unless they choose to join CE and co. in dismantling Darka and BoM (and they certainly could, provided CE allows them to - there are possible territorial incentives to do so). CE and co. meanwhile will almost certainly be busy using the military passage clauses to go ahead and dismantle Darka and BoM.

I think it is almost certain that the North will turn into a hotbed of conflict if CE and friends are wise enough to stay out of the way, since their possible participation in any conflict with the one and two-duchy realms that will be left in the North will serve to discourage those rulers from making war on each other. Now I just wish that Tara and CE's dukes would set up the same situation in the south by seceding en masse 

[LilWolf]

Eh, I see plenty of scope for future conflicts, just not any within the next six to nine months due to the protection clause. It seems likely to me that Eston's successor realms will end up fighting each other at some point.

You assume the players will happily accept an outside power telling them "you must now be a different realm". I honestly don't think that's going to fly over well at all.

And Darka will never accept terms that go anywhere near what Eston signed.

[Indirik]

Now I just wish that Tara and CE's dukes would set up the same situation in the south by seceding en masse

Every hill a kingdom! Every hollow a realm!

[Geronus]

You assume the players will happily accept an outside power telling them "you must now be a different realm". I honestly don't think that's going to fly over well at all.

And Darka will never accept terms that go anywhere near what Eston signed.

The way I see it, they don't have a choice. I'm certain that most won't be happy about it, but the alternative is that the Empire simply burns everything to the ground and then colonizes the area in whatever configuration it wants. If Eston was prepared to surrender unconditionally, I have to assume that it's because they believed that further resistance was pointless. Which it is, if you're Eston.

As for Darka, they don't have a choice either. They just haven't accepted defeat yet. Who knows, maybe they'll be able to achieve some sort of stalemate, but I have my doubts. When huge swaths of Darka have been devastated and driven rogue and you're clinging to a couple of hungry cities, will you still refuse to surrender? I can tell you from experience that fighting from that position isn't really very much fun even from an OOC standpoint. At that point I'd probably welcome peace and look forward to the opportunities that a new map would offer.

[jaune]

Yeah, could be that Darka is burnt down, but you wont see KK sign anything silly like that... there will be another king/queen by then.

But still havent heard a word from CE what they want.

[Dante Silverfire]

But still havent heard a word from CE what they want.

This one is easy: War.

They want war. You assume they want peace in some fashion. That's simply not true. They just want to fight you, burn you and pillage you without any plans for peace afterwards.

Have fun now folks.

[Vellos]

FWIW, Eston's nobles are already planning to re-unite after the 6 months or whatever.

Which is of course a "realm merger," and explicitly prohibited by BM's rules.

I just didn't want to bust their bubble and tell them that yet.

[Dante Silverfire]

FWIW, Eston's nobles are already planning to re-unite after the 6 months or whatever.

Which is of course a "realm merger," and explicitly prohibited by BM's rules.

I just didn't want to bust their bubble and tell them that yet.

Its okay, you can have one side declare war first and "win" the war.

Easy does it.

Frankly, if realm merger's are prohibited, then forced realm splits should also be prohibited.

[Geronus]

Its okay, you can have one side declare war first and "win" the war.

I'm reasonably certain that this would be frowned upon if someone decided to report it. Along the same lines as "friendly" wars.

[Dante Silverfire]

I'm reasonably certain that this would be frowned upon if someone decided to report it. Along the same lines as "friendly" wars.

Of course it would, which is why that rule, and this treaty is stupid.

See forum thread here for future discussions on this topic: http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,3823.msg93059.html#new

[Geronus]

But still havent heard a word from CE what they want.

Try surrendering unconditionally first.

[skiarxon@gmail.com]

Try surrendering unconditionally first.

I got a pic to post here about that but I am afraid I will get banned.