The Future of Atamara (Post-Great Atamaran War)

[Geronus]

I got a pic to post here about that but I am afraid I will get banned.

Ha. You can PM it to me if you want 

Edit: He did, and I laughed.

[skiarxon@gmail.com]

Ha. You can PM it to me if you want 

Edit: He did, and I laughed.

Sent

[Perth]

And Darka will never accept terms that go anywhere near what Eston signed.

Darka will, I think.

Eston certainly had no intention of surrendering really until the last few weeks there. It just became pointless. The stalemate was broken, a duchy had seceded (and was collaborating with the enemy), and we could no longer field armies of significance. Darkan and BoM armies were no where to be found, and probably wouldn't have been able to help anyways, what with 2/3 of the island in a constant rotation sitting in Eston.

Sure, we could have slogged it out for a while longer. But all that would have done was ensure that Eston as realm truly was destroyed. The end result would have been similar, but probably without an actual Eston around any longer and with nobles ending up more scattered, etc.

The war had dragged on for so damn long, it was just time to throw in the towel one they were, ya know, TOing regions adjacent to our capital.

[Geronus]

Darka will, I think.

Eston certainly had no intention of surrendering really until the last few weeks there. It just became pointless. The stalemate was broken, a duchy had seceded (and was collaborating with the enemy), and we could no longer field armies of significance. Darkan and BoM armies were no where to be found, and probably wouldn't have been able to help anyways, what with 2/3 of the island in a constant rotation sitting in Eston.

Sure, we could have slogged it out for a while longer. But all that would have done was ensure that Eston as realm truly was destroyed. The end result would have been similar, but probably without an actual Eston around any longer and with nobles ending up more scattered, etc.

The war had dragged on for so damn long, it was just time to throw in the towel one they were, ya know, TOing regions adjacent to our capital.

That pretty neatly sums up why Hammarsett surrendered.

[LilWolf]

Darka will, I think.

Dunno, from the outside it looks like internal problems killed Eston, not CE. From the outside it has often looked like Eston was filled with internal strife all through the war.

Darka on the other hands has been very stable internally for a long time. If the king says we fight until we die then that's probably what will happen. The dukes are loyal and over all I'd say we see death of Darka as a better option than signing the sort of terms Eston did.

If we die we'll just take our gold and go take over Talerium or some other place that votes often

[Perth]

Dunno, from the outside it looks like internal problems killed Eston, not CE. From the outside it has often looked like Eston was filled with internal strife all through the war.

It certainly did, and that was certainly the case. However, the strife never had anything to do with "surrender" or "don't surrender." The Rieleston secession certainly hurt Eston and its ability to fight the war, a lot. However, even if Barad Riel had stayed with Eston, the result wouldn't have altered much. It was only a matter of time before Eston could no longer hold the stalemate, as we have now seen. Especially once Darka started telling Eston they could only commit 10k CS to defend Eston.

Darka on the other hands has been very stable internally for a long time. If the king says we fight until we die then that's probably what will happen. The dukes are loyal and over all I'd say we see death of Darka as a better option than signing the sort of terms Eston did.

This is probably because Darka has never been under any threat or pressure in a long time. There's no catalyst for internal conflict. It is no coincidence that the biggest instance of internal strife in Eston in several years came during the tail end of this war that it was becoming more and more apparent would end badly for Eston. External conflict breeds internal conflict.

That being said, Darka is pretty gung-ho about themselves and are pretty convinced their military is as best as it gets. So you're probably right, they might slug it out til the end. And good for them, I hope they make it miserable for CE & Co.

If we die we'll just take our gold and go take over Talerium or some other place that votes often

Show up in CE. Elect KK the new Prime Minister. This has been the ultimate scheme of the Northern Alliance all along!

[Ender]

I'm certain that most won't be happy about it, but the alternative is that the Empire simply burns everything to the ground and then colonizes the area in whatever configuration it want

I cant speak for everyone, or any of the Darkans, but I'd like to think there are more than a few Makarians who would prefer that to surrendering and submitted to Cagilan. I know Ender would rather die then let anyone tell him what he does with his own city.

We're a feisty group up north.

[Radigand]

Especially once Darka started telling Eston they could only commit 10k CS to defend Eston.

Which is what I don't understand. If you look at Darka fighting now, they are hosting ~40k CS (from CE point of view), which would definitely make a difference if Darka committed that force when Eston was around. It's Darkan fault Eston fell...

[Uzamaki]

Darka committed more than 10K CS so I don't know where that number is coming from. We have our homeland army(mostly courtiers and inner region lords) not go out to defend Eston, but my army, our non-homeland army, the Royal Army of Darka, did go out to help Eston. We weren't pulling out all the stops so it was much less then what we are using now, but it was still twice that of which you were talking about.

And even if we had brought 30K CS such as my army has now, I am not sure if it would have matter. Eston's army was in shambles, we didn't receive communications from their General for days and when we did it was just to sit around and wait. On top of that, as Perth said, the stalemate had been broken, so it would have been like trying to plug holes in a rapidly sinking ship.

[Indirik]

Which is what I don't understand. If you look at Darka fighting now, they are hosting ~40k CS (from CE point of view), which would definitely make a difference if Darka committed that force when Eston was around.

There are many reasons that simply was not possible. Darka started this war marching with nearly 30K CS. Once all the diplomatic crap hit the fan, and we started marching across the island again, and it became obvious the Empire was going to win, we started losing nobles, and nobles stopped marching with the army. We were reduced to 15K or so that actually was willing to march.

It's Darkan fault Eston fell...

Well, that's not just a little biased, eh? Why don't you blame the Barony for bringing 5k and 6k, instead of the 12K or more they are marching now? Or blame the Empire for marching with even stronger forces than they used to bring? Or, how about blaming the complete charlie foxtrot that the Northern military coordination has been for most of the war?

[Gustav Kuriga]

I still don't get why Darka is being targeted so much more vehemently than Eston...

[Blue Star]

O I hope Darka slugs it out!

If they accepted some sort of surrender like Eston well

[Radigand]

Why don't you blame the Barony for bringing 5k and 6k, instead of the 12K or more they are marching now?

War looks far more threatening when you fight it in your own lands. I don't only blame Darka, but it just weird to see 40kCS righ now from Darka alone, and not during the stalemate. No way CE&co would have been able to break 60+kCS of Darka+Eston wall. Barony was always bad in terms of military. They care more of RPing drunken nobles (which is fine), so at least their military reflected their RP

This whole situation reminds me of fall of Tucha during Falasan war. CE had to pull all of its allies to sack the city: Talerium, Tara, Carelia, Caergoth and Suville (?) Refit times of Suville, Strombran and Caergoth are simply not feasible in this war against the north.

[Uzamaki]

War looks far more threatening when you fight it in your own lands. I don't only blame Darka, but it just weird to see 40kCS righ now from Darka alone, and not during the stalemate. No way CE&co would have been able to break 60+kCS of Darka+Eston wall. Barony was always bad in terms of military. They care more of RPing drunken nobles (which is fine), so at least their military reflected their RP

This whole situation reminds me of fall of Tucha during Falasan war. CE had to pull all of its allies to sack the city: Talerium, Tara, Carelia, Caergoth and Suville (?) Refit times of Suville, Strombran and Caergoth are simply not feasible in this war against the north.

5 reasons for the Darkan CS surge:

1. We are dipping into our vast treasury to give everyone big units.
2. We can field bigger units when we are always a day, maybe two from one of our own cities and do not have to depend on another realm to coordinate attack times and refit times. You can cash bonds easier.
3. We have gained nobles, and since many of our regions needed new nobles anyways, we are also gaining a more efficient regional economy.
4. Everyone fights harder at home than away.
5. I personally can say that I have been working harder, and the Military as well been working harder, since we are the one being threatened. You can say this is wrong, but that is just the way it is. We are communicating better, sending out Orders more regularly, and coming up with different tactics every turn.

[Radigand]

I can confirm by looking at statistics, about 2 weeks ago Darka gained ~ a dozen nobles or so within 1 week period. Curious