The Future of Atamara (Post-Great Atamaran War)

[Penchant]

Guimoiun left because he was selfish and wanted to keep his region or something like that.

[Eirikr]

Not quoting anyone because several people have made good points. The key to fun is team play. The duchy is the most immediate unit. Then the realm. Then everyone else. That is the secret to fun in BattleMaster. For everyone.

Wouldn't a region be the most immediate unit? Most are too small to make a difference by themselves, but I've also seen small, unimportant regions become a thorn in a realm's side.

Just nitpicking. Your overall idea is right, imo.

[Anaris]

Wouldn't a region be the most immediate unit? Most are too small to make a difference by themselves, but I've also seen small, unimportant regions become a thorn in a realm's side.

Just nitpicking. Your overall idea is right, imo.

A region is almost never big enough to be a meaningful team.

[GoldPanda]

I'll take "Logical Fallacies" for $200, Alex.

I was refering to CORE realm members turning their backs to their own realm, not one of two new players/spy who seek fun battles.

Hmm. What is the No True Scotsman Fallacy?

[Vellos]

I'll take "Logical Fallacies" for $200, Alex.

Hmm. What is the No True Scotsman Fallacy?

That is correct! That's $200 more for GoldPanda– he's on a roll tonight, ladies and gentlemen.

[Bedwyr]

I'll take "Logical Fallacies" for $200, Alex.

Hmm. What is the No True Scotsman Fallacy?

While it is indeed a No True Scotsman, you have to admit there's a certain truth to it.  There are nobles in every realm that are in the realm, but if you mentioned the name to most of the realm they'd go "Oh.  Him.  Yes, I...suppose he's in the realm, but..."

[Vellos]

While it is indeed a No True Scotsman, you have to admit there's a certain truth to it.  There are nobles in every realm that are in the realm, but if you mentioned the name to most of the realm they'd go "Oh.  Him.  Yes, I...suppose he's in the realm, but..."

Yeah, happens in RL too.

Because people love to form in-groups and out-groups based on their own perceptions of who they like.

"He's in Carelia... but he doesn't sing the Carelian national anthem in his messages... so he's not REALLY from Carelia."

"He's in Carelia... but he has a character in Suville too... so he's not REALLY from Carelia."

Are all just a way of saying, "I dislike him– I will invent new category restrictions to exclude him."

[Penchant]

Yeah, happens in RL too.

Because people love to form in-groups and out-groups based on their own perceptions of who they like.

"He's in Carelia... but he doesn't sing the Carelian national anthem in his messages... so he's not REALLY from Carelia."

"He's in Carelia... but he has a character in Suville too... so he's not REALLY from Carelia."

Are all just a way of saying, "I dislike him– I will invent new category restrictions to exclude him."

Poor examples IMO, but yeah.

[Perth]

Reposting this here from another thread because it's more relevant here:


This treaty is probably the best thing that has happened to the Eston-part of the Atamara map in many years, in terms of Gameplay, etc. The old, stagnant culture and power hierarchy has been completely broken in Eston proper, while in the mean time there are now 3 realms in the area who can all claim some sort of legitimacy to the "Eston" legacy.

Rieleston: seceded "technically" because they thought King Kerwin has driven Eston down a course no longer in longer in line with its ideals, claim to be the true spiritual successor to "King Andrew." Possesses several characters who strongly represent Eston's old guard. It's Prime Minister is the "long lost son" (same player) as a previous Eston King, and it's main Duke (the one who seceded) has been Duke of Barad Lacirith and King of Eston in the past.

Eston: obviously the remnants of the old Kingdom and has claim to the political legacy of Eston, however has had its house almost entirely cleaned. The old guard is gone. New Judge, New Banker, New General (all who have previously not held significant positions outside of Rural Lord) and soon a new Monarch, who will likely also be brand new to the "big stage."

Lyonesse: forcefully separated from Eston, already talk of reunification, a brand new realm with potential for new culture/identity. Ruler/Duke was close friend of Kerwin, Hawthorne was strongly pro-Kerwin/Monarchy during the Rieleston secession.

It is an extremely interesting situation and has a lot of potential for some cool things to happen.

[Bedwyr]

Yeah, happens in RL too.

Because people love to form in-groups and out-groups based on their own perceptions of who they like.

"He's in Carelia... but he doesn't sing the Carelian national anthem in his messages... so he's not REALLY from Carelia."

"He's in Carelia... but he has a character in Suville too... so he's not REALLY from Carelia."

Are all just a way of saying, "I dislike him– I will invent new category restrictions to exclude him."

All of that is certainly true...But I dare you to state that you have never been in a realm that had at least one noble that never did a damn thing, or explicitly joined just because they "heard this was where the big fighting was going to be".

[Sonya]

I was mostly inactive during the war with the Empire (log in to avoid auto-pause) but i can assure you that i have no idea about these two nobles.

I'll take "Logical Fallacies" for $200, Alex.

Hmm. What is the No True Scotsman Fallacy?

Sorry i have no idea what is that "No True Scotsman Fallacy" even after re reading explanation, but neither i care i am from the Caribean not British, so if you don't understand something from me just ask me and i will try to explain it more clear.

As i stated before, it happened in Fontan, it happened in SOA, it happened in every realm i have been with war. Once the war are over, you see member of your realm leaving to the enemy side, some of those you even wondered "who the hell was that?". Many nobles join a realm and you see them saying nothing for months.

As i Said before, Spare me the drama.

You show me 3 characters, by logic is true they were "part of Carelia" but if you go deeper (Quoting inception) you see what were their true colors.

One of them with 1 year and 3 months on the realms and Honor: 6 prestige: 17......Jesus, he never fought a single battle, i thought i was idle but he beat me to it, at least i had to log in and buy food for the city once a week. The other was a Enemy's alt. And the Third was asked by the Treaty to be Banished from Carelia.

I will be more clear, and explain more on my first intervention this week.

Coria is made by the same Nobles of Falasan.
Hammerset was made by the same Minas Ithil nobles
Minas Leon is made by the same Nobles of Minas Ithil
Suville is the same group of nobles from well...you know..
Helmsdale...
Rieleston....
Bisquez Empire....ohh wait this one is not done

And so on....

On every country there is something i know as "Clientelismo" is when you do favor to the Government like donating, voting, influences, etc. To gain something once is on power. On Atamara that happens a lot, but even worse, because many Dukes negotiate with the enemy realm.

Well and something like that..

[Solari]

The danger in making this kind of argument, Sonya, is that it exposes one to the same critique. There are many people who believe that Sonya—or more specifically, inept or lazy dukes/duchesses—were the root cause of the Carelian dysfunction. They failed to perform basic tasks expected of them, and the Duchess of Strombran in particular seemed rather hesitant to go to war with her old friends in the Cagilan Empire. All of this resulted in the squandering of much excellent forethought and planning on the part of the Queen.

Whether one believes the above to be true is irrelevant. The point is that it cannot be properly refuted—just argued about incessantly, which is hardly a good thing for players to be doing.

[Sonya]

The danger in making this kind of argument, Sonya, is that it exposes one to the same critique. There are many people who believe that Sonya—or more specifically, inept or lazy dukes/duchesses—were the root cause of the Carelian dysfunction. They failed to perform basic tasks expected of them, and the Duchess of Strombran in particular seemed rather hesitant to go to war with her old friends in the Cagilan Empire. All of this resulted in the squandering of much excellent forethought and planning on the part of the Queen.

Whether one believes the above to be true is irrelevant. The point is that it cannot be properly refuted—just argued about incessantly, which is hardly a good thing for players to be doing.

Is true, if i were more active during these times Carelia wouldn't be like is now, but there are times that we cant control the time we can spent IG. since past December i had to leave the city, and came back yesterday. same happened that time, once i could recover my time  was too late.

Certainly, the way i play "that" character is very strict in  the code of honor, i didn't wanted the war with the Empire for the friends i had, but because it was wrong to fight and betray an ally. but also the wishes of the crown was absolute for Sonya. the Queen wanted war, i was no one (even as Duchess) no one to complain, and changing allegiance/seceding is a 700% no. all i did to protest was staying within walls. Then later it came my Job promotion i had to move, etc. etc....ahh Real Life that i love so much......

But this turn made me play a role i hate the most and is "The Politician" it stresses me more than my real job itself, i hit the desk so hard a couple of times that people around me was scared that i was gonna fire some one.

And i have to thank BM and everyone of you for turning my lightweight hobby game in a living hell, one of these days i swear i will exile myself to the Colonies.

[skiarxon@gmail.com]

Is true, if i were more active during these times Carelia wouldn't be like is now, but there are times that we cant control the time we can spent IG. since past December i had to leave the city, and came back yesterday. same happened that time, once i could recover my time  was too late.

Certainly, the way i play "that" character is very strict in  the code of honor, i didn't wanted the war with the Empire for the friends i had, but because it was wrong to fight and betray an ally. but also the wishes of the crown was absolute for Sonya. the Queen wanted war, i was no one (even as Duchess) no one to complain, and changing allegiance/seceding is a 700% no. all i did to protest was staying within walls. Then later it came my Job promotion i had to move, etc. etc....ahh Real Life that i love so much......

But this turn made me play a role i hate the most and is "The Politician" it stresses me more than my real job itself, i hit the desk so hard a couple of times that people around me was scared that i was gonna fire some one.

And i have to thank BM and everyone of you for turning my lightweight hobby game in a living hell, one of these days i swear i will exile myself to the Colonies.

If a game takes such a toll in your life just pause.

[Radigand]

I don't see a problem. Step down from w/e position that you are not enjoying and let other people take over. Clinging to power you don't enjoy OOC just because it makes IC sense will turn your life into hell. It's not fair to blame other players for your misery. Other players may enjoy this political game. Do what you love doing, we already have enough unpleasantness in real life.

I was a count of Skezard, wanted to get into the Sirion's politics. Turns out senators in Sirion don't hold any power, and the pay in Skezard was miserable. I also did not want to spend all this time to get to the place I wanted, so I went back to being a rich knight, following orders, etc. It's not the end of the world to let go.