Nivemus vs. Perdan

[Atanamir]

I have stated why we declared war on Westmoor.

Yes, but, as said, by a pure objective logic, random is, that you have not declared war on Armonia as well.
They had made, in terms of military aggression, movement and diplomacy the exact same things as the Westmoorians (till your war declaration).

The Oberndorf issue etc is a thing between Nivemus and Westmoor.
If you declared a war due to the things between you two, then this has nothing to do with Perdan or well, Armonia. Perfectly ok then.
But you Ihope you have thought this through before, cause now, if there should be peace between Perdan and Nivemus, the war between you and Westmoor will be excluded.

[Indirik]

Yes, but, as said, by a pure objective logic, random is, that you have not declared war on Armonia as well. They had made, in terms of military aggression, movement and diplomacy the exact same things as the Westmoorians (till your war declaration).

Several things here:
First, that statement is just wrong. In addition to joining the attack, Westmoor deliberately and knowingly allowed Perdan forces to travel through their lands for the purpose of attacking Nivemus. So far as I know, Armmonia has not done this.
Second, you know very well that there are very important political implications for being the one that declared the war. Why should Nivemus take that burden on themselves? If Armonia and OI intend to make war on Nivemus, they should also have a burden of declaring it. (Which is partly what some of the Westmoorians here are complaining about Sirion's activities, too: waging a war without declaring it.)
Third, why aren't you taking OI and Armonia to task for waging war on Nivemus without declaring the war?
Fourth, there are sound military reasons for not declaring the war, and again you know this very well.
Fifth, it is possible that Nivemus hopes to talk their way out of war with Armonia and/or Nivemus. Declaring the war significantly reduces those chances.

[Indirik]

You mean something that was even only mentioned in passing when Armonia was getting antsy around Eponllyn?

That's supposed to make it more acceptable, that you only plotted the takeover of foreign governments, and the puppetization of their realm "in passing"?

[Uzamaki]

Yes, but, as said, by a pure objective logic, random is, that you have not declared war on Armonia as well.
They had made, in terms of military aggression, movement and diplomacy the exact same things as the Westmoorians (till your war declaration).

The Oberndorf issue etc is a thing between Nivemus and Westmoor.
If you declared a war due to the things between you two, then this has nothing to do with Perdan or well, Armonia. Perfectly ok then.
But you Ihope you have thought this through before, cause now, if there should be peace between Perdan and Nivemus, the war between you and Westmoor will be excluded.

I don't know how many other ways I can explain it.

Tensions between Westmoor and Nivemus have been building for some time. Westmoor is probably Nivemus' biggest rival(due to diplomatic, strength, and self-engineered circumstances). We can gain something from warring with them and vice versa. Also, their nobles can just waltz around our land if they want if I hadn't declared war.

Armonia is not our rival, in fact, until recently, they have had no influence in the North or in Niveman policy period. We don't really gain anything immediate from warring them, and they don't really gain anything immediate from warring us. And they would be hard pressed to waltz around our land due to their capital being so far away.

I declared on Perdan simply because your amount of infiltrators and scouts were too much for me to ignore, so, in that war, the logic behind the pros of going to war with Westmoor and Perdan overlap.

So, you see, there is a perfectly logical reason for the my diplomatic relations... Not that it matters, because since when did diplomacy ever have to make sense(both in real life and in battlemaster)?

[Uzamaki]

And as for RP logic... Perdan effectively declared war on us, and Westmoor is our big rival(please read Gloria's earlier post to confirm).

[Uzamaki]

Westmoor and Perdan are allies.
If people would do their maths better before posting every unqualified comment, then this forum would be much more interesting to participate.
Or if they just don't know, maybe just stay out of discussions. 

Okay, but then they can't claim to be neutral then can they?

[Sonya]

3 Post in a row...no bad...

[Gloria]

Can't we just accept that Perdan and Westmoor have a reason to be at war with Nivemus and Sirion, and that the reasons from both sides are legitimate?  The sooner we do that, the sooner we can focus on the damn fun and play in game, in character, instead of on the damn forums. 
BTW, I'm getting bored in Nivemus prison. 

[Indirik]

Can't we just accept that Perdan and Westmoor have a reason to be at war with Nivemus and Sirion, and that the reasons from both sides are legitimate?  The sooner we do that, the sooner we can focus on the damn fun and play in game, in character, instead of on the damn forums. 

I completely agree with this. Both sides have their own reasons to pursue the war, that they consider legitimate. What I object to is the characterization, on either part, that the other side is somehow unreasoning, completely wrong and unjustified, or somehow engaging in poor RP. This is an unfortunate consequence of the fact that if everyone could be understanding and see things from the other side's perspective. Which, really, is quite fortunate. If they could, then we wouldn't have any reason to go to war.

[Uzamaki]

3 Post in a row...no bad...

Gotta get the post count up somehow!

I kid, I just didn't think about it before I clicked 'post'.

[Chaotrance13]

I completely agree with this. Both sides have their own reasons to pursue the war, that they consider legitimate. What I object to is the characterization, on either part, that the other side is somehow unreasoning, completely wrong and unjustified, or somehow engaging in poor RP. This is an unfortunate consequence of the fact that if everyone could be understanding and see things from the other side's perspective. Which, really, is quite fortunate. If they could, then we wouldn't have any reason to go to war.

It's basically a big old treaty web like we had back in Cybernations.

Perdan declares on Nivemus.
Sirion supports Nivemus via use of "escorting".
Westmoor and Armonia do the same, end up in the biggest battle on the continent (and BM iirc).
Nivemus declares war on the two of them for joining battle.

And so on. It's completely legitimate and just following the treaties, really. Though that said Sirion hasn't officially declared war on Westmoor (yet) but they're partaking in the looting, so you might as well add them into things too.

Edit: Oh. I remember now what I was going to ask. What was the issue with the Warhawk family and the fact they transferred a Sirionite region to Westmoor before rage-deleting all their toons?

[Indirik]

It's basically a big old treaty web like we had back in Cybernations.

Indeed, it is. Quite easy to follow, so long as you're not looking to find some insignificant little niggle on which to badmouth some realms.

Edit: Oh. I remember now what I was going to ask. What was the issue with the Warhawk family and the fact they transferred a Sirionite region to Westmoor before rage-deleting all their toons?

I really don't know, and neither did any of the other players I talked to. This same guy also moved an Armmonian region to Caligus (so I hear, don't know which one), and a region from Minas Leon to Coria. Typical griefer crap.

[Ketchum]

Edit: Oh. I remember now what I was going to ask. What was the issue with the Warhawk family and the fact they transferred a Sirionite region to Westmoor before rage-deleting all their toons?

I think that would make Sirion declare war on Westmoor soon enough. Is that what Westmoor want? 

[T Strike]

No, but that is probably what you want.

[Zakilevo]

Edit: Oh. I remember now what I was going to ask. What was the issue with the Warhawk family and the fact they transferred a Sirionite region to Westmoor before rage-deleting all their toons?

Well according to what I've heard from T-Strike, his account got hacked apparently. T-Strike heard it from Silverfire so if you want to know what happened in details, you will have to ask Silverfire.