Appointing a Duke

[Sypher]

It would make sense to me to let a ruler appoint anyone to Duke of a vacant duchy and have the game take away anything that doesn't fit in the hierarchy like when a ruler wins election.

I suppose adding Duke to the positions you can refuse on the paperwork page could be a good simple feature request.

[vonGenf]

It would make sense to me to let a ruler appoint anyone to Duke of a vacant duchy and have the game take away anything that doesn't fit in the hierarchy like when a ruler wins election.

I suppose adding Duke to the positions you can refuse on the paperwork page could be a good simple feature request.

If you're a Lord, nothing gets removed because it fits in the hierarchy.

If you're a simple knight.... does it even make sense to refuse a duchy for the sake of an estate, even a big one?

The only place where I can imagine it being a problem is if the appointment is to an empty duchy.

[Sypher]

If you're a Lord, nothing gets removed because it fits in the hierarchy.

If you're a simple knight.... does it even make sense to refuse a duchy for the sake of an estate, even a big one?

The only place where I can imagine it being a problem is if the appointment is to an empty duchy.

Right and I agree, so it would make sense for the game to let you appoint a knight and then remove their estate like it would if you win election to be ruler.

re: refusing positions
I can't imagine many people refusing to be named duke, but if you can refuse to be appointed to a lordship shouldn't you be able to refuse to be appointed duke as well?

[Indirik]

Appointments to empty duchies, or duchies with, say, a single mountain region, could easily be used to remove lords from critical positions, like Margrave of the capital, or the realm's critical food producing rural, etc.

if the guy really wants the new duchy/lordship, then just have him step down from his old one. What's so hard about that? Send him a message: "Hey, you want the duchy of Keplerstan? If so, step down from lord of Eviltown so I can appoint you."

[vonGenf]

Appointments to empty duchies, or duchies with, say, a single mountain region, could easily be used to remove lords from critical positions, like Margrave of the capital, or the realm's critical food producing rural, etc.

Isn't it that the region he is currently Lord of will become part of the Duchy he is appointed to? I can't remember now, but it should be.

[Indirik]

No, and no.

[vonGenf]

No,

Ok.

and no.

Now, that doesn't make sense. It doesn't break the hierarchy that way, is entirely consistent and historically accurate.

[Indirik]

And makes for bad game play. You'd end up pissing people off left and right when regions in one duchy were swapped to a different duchy, and the lords would have to step down, find a new candidate, and swap them back.

[vonGenf]

would have to step down,

They don't. If they want to, they can do so prior to the nomination.

[Indirik]

Sure. And they can do that now, but don't, and complain that they can't be appointed duke. So if the region swapped automatically, you'd get complaints about how Perdan city is now in the duchy of Aix, and how retarded is that, and how much crap they had to do to get it back where it belongs, etc, etc...

It would just make for a bad game.

[vonGenf]

you'd get complaints about how Perdan city is now in the duchy of Aix,

I guess this is the occasion for me to reiterate that naming duchies after cities is a bad idea and that the hierarchy makes a lot more sense in these places where the duchy names are more interesting.

In Riombara, this rule forced me to travel for endless miles to be able to have my region switch duchies before being appointed. It just made for a bad game.....

[Indirik]

The names are irrelevant. Have the second richest city on an island swap duchies when its lord is appointed duke of a different duchy, and then listen to the outrage.

It's not ideal either way, I suppose. But at least the way it is now, you don't get things moving around unexpectedly. It is also the existing, known behavior. Changing it doesn't make it any more predictable, easier to understand, or consistent. It also makes for the creation of situations that were not desired and very difficult and inconvenient to undo. You may have to travel a bit now to take your region to a new duchy and *then* get appointed duke. But you also had the benefit of making an informed choice about what you wanted to do, and could easily have chosen to leave your region behind. Forcing the region change unexpectedly and unwanted and then forcing people to deal with how to get it back is decidedly worse behavior.

[vonGenf]

The problem I have with this behaviour is that it 'forces' people to first resign, and then be appointed to a higher position. It's risky if you don't entirely trust the ruler; plus it's entirely unhistorical. Getting named Duke should be a straight promotion.

[Indirik]

The problem I have with this behaviour is that it 'forces' people to first resign, and then be appointed to a higher position.

So does the other way, if they don't want to take their region with them.

It's risky if you don't entirely trust the ruler;

Good. Opens up some options for intrigue and backstabbing.

[Eldargard]

It all is a matter of who you are targeting with the game. The existing system is manageable, with minor confusion, for experienced players who have the initiative to learn the intricacies of the system. It seems as if it would be a nightmare to new players or lightweight players. If a lightweight player gets appointed to duke and wants to give one of his regions to a formal vassal that has an estate in another region may have to dig for answers to figure out why their pick is not on the list of potential appointees - if I understand the system right. The voting system makes it easy to get that position but can come with nasty surprises. It is possible to make all this more user friendly and accessible to the new guy or lightweight player. I am not really sure if I have really heard a good argument as to why it is preferable to no make things more user friendly.