Set Battle-Width by Region Type

[Indirik]

That would be my choice.

But some new formations and/or updates would be nice. An update of "mixed lines" would probably be good.

[Eldargard]

Unit formation should just be something it checks and multiplies accordingly so its just a few more lines of code I believe. Personally, unless some other things are done with this to fix the situation, I kinda hate it as the only way to organize your army properly for a battle is through a ton of micromanaging.

Not only would you need to send TL's each their own line settings but also it requires knowing the exact count of troops, not an estimation though marshal might get that. Basically it !@#$s up so much in a way that is not tactics, just !@#$ing stuff up if you don't carefully micromanage all of your initial troops into their proper position and just have the rest getting put to the rear. While formations actually shouldn't be screwed up too much when only one army as the set up should stay the same pretty much, ie an archer opening still has archers in front, but if its not a formation you will have a lot of situations getting screwed up when they shouldn't be unless their is a lot of micromanagement, IMO. I am not trying to be rude or discourage the feature, it just seems like it needs some changes to add fun most the time.

As I see it, the micromanagement should be handled before battles begin. If you bring a huge hoard into the mountains, you have already failed. Most of your men will be useless and your formations will be messed up. If I bring a small, high quality army into the mountains, then formations will become predictable and all troops will be properly utilized. The main idea would be to plan ahead. Way ahead. You take your realms singly blob army and split off a Mountaineers Army (tiny, high quality), a Roughlands Unit (small, mid quality) Main Army (lots and lots of soldiers). Use each army as appropriate of have them attack together if needed.

[Norrel]

It seems that "elite" unit types will be buffed even more than they were already, since you'd be able to compact more force into a smaller area. Presumably there should be some buff to "conscript" unit types in rurals? Or some circumstances under which filling out lines is more beneficial? Because otherwise there'd be even less reason not to just exclusively higher 60+/60+ unit types, which is what most people do now anyways.

[egamma]

I think a proper ordering of changes is in order.

First, I think we can put in the "unit distance" change, where wedge uses the least space and skirmish the most. Can't the existing combat code perhaps benefit from that?

Then, we can put in the line width limitations per region, both with my "fill" method and the last line being unlimited.

After those go in, we can review the complaints constructive feedback received and create/adjust formations accordingly.

[Bedwyr]

As I see it, the micromanagement should be handled before battles begin. If you bring a huge hoard into the mountains, you have already failed. Most of your men will be useless and your formations will be messed up. If I bring a small, high quality army into the mountains, then formations will become predictable and all troops will be properly utilized. The main idea would be to plan ahead. Way ahead. You take your realms singly blob army and split off a Mountaineers Army (tiny, high quality), a Roughlands Unit (small, mid quality) Main Army (lots and lots of soldiers). Use each army as appropriate of have them attack together if needed.

This was what I envisioned, yes.  You can bring a massive army into a mountain battle, but it won't help.

It seems that "elite" unit types will be buffed even more than they were already, since you'd be able to compact more force into a smaller area. Presumably there should be some buff to "conscript" unit types in rurals? Or some circumstances under which filling out lines is more beneficial? Because otherwise there'd be even less reason not to just exclusively higher 60+/60+ unit types, which is what most people do now anyways.

Please see my related thread on overcrowding.  The idea is that if you take your elite troops into an open field, the rabble who vastly outnumber them for the same recruitment cost will be able to cut them down easily.

[Zakilevo]

Yes. Don't forget our soldiers are humans not daimons. They can easily be outnumbered. There is a reason why a well trained army sometimes lost to an angry horde of peasants.

[Indirik]

This was what I envisioned, yes.  You can bring a massive army into a mountain battle, but it won't help.

This is a bit of an exaggeration. The massive part will help if the battle turns into one of attrition. If the elite army is, say, 900 soldiers, and can kill the enemy at a 4-1 advantage, then the enemy can overwhelm and destroy them by bringing 3,600 soldiers. :) So yes, it does help to bring the massive army, so long as it is massive enough.

But if you assume a more reasonable 2-1 kill ratio, then just doubling the enemy's army size will still allow you to win, if you can kill them fast enough. On a battle-line 300 wide, assume 1/3rd dead (100 men) per turn gives you a 9-round battle. To stretch it out to a 20-turn draw, you'd have to average losing less than 45 men a turn. That includes deaths from archers, too. Seems a bit extreme.

I wonder how that would work out, cost-wise... How *much* better troops do you have to have to get a 2-1 kill ratio? If I recruit 50-50-50, can your 80-80-80 troops do it? How about 90-90-90? Or if I drop to 40-40-40? What's the cost differential? Don't forget to include repairs, training, and weekly pay, too.

Has anyone looked at any of the big battles lately, to see just how many troops we really get into a single line? It would be useless to restrict a battle-line to 600 troops wide if all but the hugest battles never really get up that high.

[Stabbity]

Until you take into consideration that the poorly trained unit you recruited isn't some angry peasant mob, but a bunch of scared farm boys who will piss themselves the first time they hear/see heavy cavalry charging them in formation. Many, many battles have been won by much smaller groups of elite soldiers breaking poorly trained ones long before the fighting begins.

[Zakilevo]

Here is something you might find interesting, Rob.

http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Lapallanch_Family/Zakilevo/Epic_Battle_of_Oberndorf

I haven't finished working on it but just from the first turn, you can see that attackers had a huge line.

They actually had over 3100 men in the front line...

[Penchant]

Another benefit of this now that I think of it is that it gives archers the advantage they should have on mountains. (An archer heavy army could hold of a very large army.) Though that makes me think of an issue also, what if archers fill up an entire line and don't need to move forward? That would block reinforcements even if there is plenty of space ahead of them.

[Indirik]

That's one of the reasons that marshal formations need to be changed and updated.