The War of Ice and Sun

[Tandaros]

Do you have any clue about history between Thalmarkin and Melhed?

-Jaune

this message sums up the spirit of this thread.

The brash Thal reaction proves the paranoid Melites who wanted to scourge Agyr were correct in their fears. Maybe they fulfilled their own prophecy, I don't know. But Thal's extremely short fuse for anything not to their liking makes it seem like if it wasn't this, it might have been that Maya's hairdo or the color of the tablecloths.

And it's pretty astounding how the bulk of the thread is Thal players assuming they know what happened in Melhed surrounding Agyr. Are your wizards false clairvoyants or do you just like to make !@#$ up?

[Lanyon]

Rule 1 of BM diplomacy: Do not antagonize those who have defeated you in a war without breaking a sweat. Thal let Melhed off the hook easy in comparison to most wars that occur these days. If you wanted a hostile Northern neighbor who has already beaten you once, you got it. Its just dumb to antagonize someone like that, what do you get out of it? Thal spends a little gold, but at the expense of diplomatic relations. Do you think Thalmarkin will ever trust Melhed again? No, they would be stupid to do so. Does Thal now have a Casus Belli to resume the war and rescind the charity already given to Melhed? Yes.

I think you hit the nail on the head buddy. For Melhed not to use Kalixta as a scapegoat right now and blame it all on her and grovel at Fingolfin's wrinkly feet, would be a bad idea. very bad.

[jaune]

I really think we are not speaking same language here...

If you sign treaty and say certain things, it means... well should mean you stand behind your words. With that, you build trust on you and for your doings. Saying something and doing something else, will lead lack of trust. This works at real life too... atleast on the corner where i live.

-Jaune

[Lorgan]

this message sums up the spirit of this thread.

So here I was thinking... finally a melite who understands!

And then I read the rest.

So let's take a quick look at the actual history of Melhed-Thalmarkin relationships: alliance for 82/~84 months, war for 2/~84 months.
In my mind, the revival of good relations was not at all unthinkable and in fact started when Maya accepted the peace treaty..
.. And ended when Kalixta burnt our duchy to the ground.

[JeVondair]

So here I was thinking... finally a melite who understands!

And then I read the rest.

So let's take a quick look at the actual history of Melhed-Thalmarkin relationships: alliance for 82/~84 months, war for 2/~84 months (started by Thalmarkin for....reasons n stuff).

In my mind, the revival of good relations was not at all unthinkable (Because ya'll got exactly what ya'll set out to get, treaty n all) and in fact started when Maya accepted the peace treaty (which was totally designed to bridge the gap between the two warring peoples...not)...
.. And ended when Kalixta burnt our her duchy to the ground (only the shiny, melite bits).

Yes yes, how horrible it must seem from a Thal perspective. Simply awful.  If only Kalixta HAD starved all the regions of Agyr to nothing. At least then the whining would be validated by something. Really, ya'll should thank her for removing all traces of Melite influence. Of course, the Golden Palace is still there, but that's a minor detail.

End of the day, you have a whole new duchy, shiny from the clear-install she gave it, full of people, AND fed. It cost you a single battle and some gold. Why not just enjoy? It's done and gripping will help ya'll just as much as it helped Melhed.

[Vita`]

Why would they want melite influence scrubbed?  They're allies of DECADES/basically thalmarkins' entire existence! And before that, one of the founding influences of Thalmarkin were Ar Agyr, the realm that was based in Agyr prior to a long ago invasion and whose resurrection this war was about. Ar Agyr died in an invasion just after a war where most of the continent (Enweil, Riombara, and probably at least four other realms ranging across all ends of the continent) fought an Ar Agyr/Melhed alliance. They have a long history of close relations with Melhed.

I'd mention that some of those RCs might even be left over from Ar Agyr, but pretty sure Fronen (the first one that died prior to the second's founding) forced Melhed to destroy all their RCs and put a puppet king in charge, eventually allowing only weak (around 10/10/10) RCs to be frontline cannonfodder in one of their wars.

[Tandaros]

So here I was thinking... finally a melite who understands!

And then I read the rest.

So let's take a quick look at the actual history of Melhed-Thalmarkin relationships: alliance for 82/~84 months, war for 2/~84 months.
In my mind, the revival of good relations was not at all unthinkable and in fact started when Maya accepted the peace treaty..
.. And ended when Kalixta burnt our duchy to the ground.

What I meant to refer to was how dismissive Thal seems to be to anyone who doesn't share their views. Sorry if I doesn't fit party view that 'Melhed is bad', but the reality is this; Kalixta and Maya went from allies to frenemies at the drop of a dime. Kalixta stood between Maya and the rebels, and could have gone either way (though maybe JeV could elaborate on that). Maya was afraid to cross Kalixta at certain points. Remember that whole rebellion? You guys act like Melhed is one monolithic totality; it's not.

I understand there were elements in Thal that were opposed to peace terms, and some who liked the idea of a new north. Similarly, there were different factions at work in Melhed, and a lot of the old guard was not happy with Maya. The fact Thal got Agyr in such agreeable circumstances is something they seemed to forget quite easily.

At least that's how it looks from my position.

[JeVondair]

Why would they want melite influence scrubbed?  They're allies of DECADES/basically thalmarkins' entire existence! And before that, one of the founding influences of Thalmarkin were Ar Agyr, the realm that was based in Agyr prior to a long ago invasion and whose resurrection this war was about. Ar Agyr died in an invasion just after a war where most of the continent (Enweil, Riombara, and probably at least four other realms ranging across all ends of the continent) fought an Ar Agyr/Melhed alliance. They have a long history of close relations with Melhed.

I'd mention that some of those RCs might even be left over from Ar Agyr, but pretty sure Fronen (the first one that died prior to the second's founding) forced Melhed to destroy all their RCs and put a puppet king in charge, eventually allowing only weak (around 10/10/10) RCs to be frontline cannonfodder in one of their wars.

That makes a lot of sense, thanks for weighing in! I'm not certain this is an appropriate place to get into RP stuff and why who did what. Suffices to say, though, that Kalixta felt justified, even vindicated. OOC I was aware of the history, but Kalixta only ever saw Thalmarkin as an enemy. It was a small, petty thing, sure. But after losing everything, it was also the only way she could hurt Thalmarkin. The bitterest pill for her, besides being banned from Melhed as well, is that even burning Agyr even that will be erased in a month or so.

[Stabbity]

The thing is, Melhed isn't in a spot where it is allowed to voice its gripes. Gripes will get you killed. Moan and complain all you want about how Thalmarkin has got this that and the other thing, but remember: You couldn't beat them with Agyr flying your banner, you definitely won't without it. Antagonizing a bigger neighbor with a solid hold on the region you occupy is a terrible thing to do. If you want to spite someone who just won a fairly one sided war against you, swallow it, or be prepared to pay up for it. The thing is, you don't have to like Thal's attitude, but Thal certainly has to like yours.

[JeVondair]

The thing is, Melhed isn't in a spot where it is allowed to voice its gripes. Gripes will get you killed. Moan and complain all you want about how Thalmarkin has got this that and the other thing, but remember: You couldn't beat them with Agyr flying your banner, you definitely won't without it. Antagonizing a bigger neighbor with a solid hold on the region you occupy is a terrible thing to do. If you want to spite someone who just won a fairly one sided war against you, swallow it, or be prepared to pay up for it. The thing is, you don't have to like Thal's attitude, but Thal certainly has to like yours.

It helps then that Kalixta acted independently. The blame cannot be laid on Melhed because Maya had no knowledge of what was happening until it was too late, only learning of the destruction just prior to Kalixta following the treaty and switching to Thalmarkin. Nor could she disciplin Kalixta for fear of alienating the rest of her subjects even further. Kalixta's actions have been disavowed as that of a rogue, which she now officially is, and she's been forbidden from returning to Melhed.

Ya'll should hunt her down instead. Make a special task force or something to bring the Red Witch to face Thal Justice 

[Tandaros]

It helps then that Kalixta acted independently. The blame cannot be laid on Melhed because Maya had no knowledge of what was happening until it was too late, only learning of the destruction just prior to Kalixta following the treaty and switching to Thalmarkin. Nor could she disciplin Kalixta for fear of alienating the rest of her subjects even further. Kalixta's actions have been disavowed as that of a rogue, which she now officially is, and she's been forbidden from returning to Melhed.

Ya'll should hunt her down instead. Make a special task force or something to bring the Red Witch to face Thal Justice 

Kalixta should totally go into hiding in OG and see if that starts a war.

[JeVondair]

Kalixta should totally go into hiding in OG and see if that starts a war.

Nah, there's no way that would work. OG and Thalmarkin are homies...

Just like Melhed was...

hmmm 

[Noldorin]

Ya'll should hunt her down instead. Make a special task force or something to bring the Red Witch to face Thal Justice 

It seems people are already on it

Nah, there's no way that would work. OG and Thalmarkin are homies...

Could become interesting, but doubt OG would do anything such...

[Disturbedyang]

Guys, lets be reasonable. Keep whatever that is happening IG. I have noticed most people are taking these too personally and OOC. Lets not spoil the fun for the others while you enjoy yours.

On another note, it is too boring keeping this realm at peace. Sorry Tandaros, i am not about to let this realm to be just another quiet realm like the rest. Heh. :p

[JeVondair]

Guys, lets be reasonable. Keep whatever that is happening IG. I have noticed most people are taking these too personally and OOC. Lets not spoil the fun for the others while you enjoy yours.

On another note, it is too boring keeping this realm at peace. Sorry Tandaros, i am not about to let this realm to be just another quiet realm like the rest. Heh. :p

If I know Tandaros at all, I am sure that he (?)    certainly doesn't want "just another quiet realm either. Go for it, whatever that may be!