Author Topic: Secession and pledging - Capitals / Last cities  (Read 11986 times)

Scarlett

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I understand that the way this is set up is designed to prevent gamey behavior (among other goals I'm unaware of, no doubt). It is presently resulting in very gamey behavior.

Terran has fallen. The invading army is very far away and doesn't want to conquer the land for themselves; instead they struck a deal with the Duke of the capital (me) to establish a new realm. The capital can't secede, so we had the option of temporarily joining another realm (so that we wouldn't be the capital) but that was deemed too gamey - i.e. 'we aren't actually changing allegiance to you, we're just de-capitalizing ourselves and we'll be gone in a week.'

So we convinced a neighboring Duke in Terran to secede with the idea that we'd then pledge to join them, since we previously had the option of pledging to another, neighboring realm even though we couldn't secede.

Neighboring Duke secedes and we go to pledge only to get this message:

'You cannot change allegiance with the last city in the realm.'

If the intention here is to prevent gamey behavior, the only solution I can see is to force our new neighbors to conquer us. Terran has no ruler, and I won't run for ruler because it will kick me out as Duke if I do.

What is the solution here? Do we just appeal to Tom to please switch us over to another realm? Do we force people who like us to 'conquer' us and spend two weeks TOing several regions?

Telrunya

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Why would it kick you out of Duke if you become Ruler? It doesn't break the Chain of Hierarchy so there is no conflict. You can be Ruler and Duke at the same time. You just can't be Lord/Knight and Ruler without being the Duke as well.

Indirik

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Why not just rebel and take over the realm. You become, effectively, a new realm with a new government, and you're done.

Or, you could have swapped the capital to the other city, then seceded.
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Bael

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Why would it kick you out of Duke if you become Ruler? It doesn't break the Chain of Hierarchy so there is no conflict. You can be Ruler and Duke at the same time. You just can't be Lord/Knight and Ruler without being the Duke as well.

I can verify, from personal experience, that you do not get kicked out of your position as Duke upon becoming a ruler through election. In addition to what has already been stated.

Edit: I suppose you could then change the realm name, once you are ruler? And Flag, Icon etc.

Scarlett

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I can verify, from personal experience, that you do not get kicked out of your position as Duke upon becoming a ruler through election.

You do in a Republic. At least in this one.

We couldn't have swapped the capital prior to now because we haven't had a ruler - and even so, that's still just as gamey, and we'd just have the same problem with the other duchy instead of this one.

Bael

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You do in a Republic. At least in this one.

Well, not in the Barcan Republic...

Scarlett

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Do you have region lordship elections? I think that's the thing that does it.

If you appoint your lords, it stands to reason that it shouldn't kick you out because you could just re-appoint yourself. But if duke-ships are elected positions, it's a way to promote turnover.

Bael

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Do you have region lordship elections? I think that's the thing that does it.

If you appoint your lords, it stands to reason that it shouldn't kick you out because you could just re-appoint yourself. But if duke-ships are elected positions, it's a way to promote turnover.

Yes, we have elected Lordships.

Seems like Terran really was corrupt  :o  ;D

Scarlett

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Huh. That's odd. I'm positive that Alura lost her region lordship when she was elected, and I think Kas did too.

Zakilevo

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Huh. That's odd. I'm positive that Alura lost her region lordship when she was elected, and I think Kas did too.

Used to. Not anymore.

Chenier

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Dukeship and lordship are not the same. Depending on the government system, you may lose your lordship, but I think you get to keep your dukeship, allowing you to appoint yourself right back. I'm not 100% sure, though.
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Penchant

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Well to answer the question of why the last city can't secede, its about one person having too much power. One person being able to completely destroy a realm simply by changing allegiance/seceding is something that is considered bad.
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vonGenf

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Well to answer the question of why the last city can't secede, its about one person having too much power. One person being able to completely destroy a realm simply by changing allegiance/seceding is something that is considered bad.

It's also to prevent the easy formation of big merged realms. Although that's not the case here, the game has no way to know that.
After all it's a roleplaying game.

Scarlett

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One person being able to completely destroy a realm simply by changing allegiance/seceding is something that is considered bad.

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Although that's not the case here, the game has no way to know that.

It is already easy to form big, merged realms, and it is already easy to destroy a realm by seceding. It's just not easy to finish the job.

Penchant

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It is already easy to form big, merged realms, and it is already easy to destroy a realm by seceding. It's just not easy to finish the job.
That is the point to your second statement. If you want to secede with most the realm, whatevs, but if you were able to take every last region the realm has been completely destroyed. Realms that are huge now have been reduced to only a couple of regions in the past, but once you lose everything, its over for that realm.
“The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.”
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