Author Topic: 101 Ways to Destabalize the Northern Astroist Federation  (Read 79209 times)

Penchant

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You claim to be great at law yet don't actually  argue against what he said but what you claim he said.
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Gustav Kuriga

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one way to destabilize the Northern Astroist Federation... kick the Regent out of his estate in your city. *snickers*

Perth

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Everyone keeps avoiding the question Kale has asked like 10 times now: if the Diet votes to join the 'Moot will that solve the issue?

Reason: yes, it would solve the issue, but D'Hara doesn't want to solve the issue because they just want to own Chesney. It has nothing to do with the Treaty.
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Tandaros

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Can someone explain to me how Hireshmont and Kale went from enemies to friends so quickly? I'm getting Maroccidental whiplash.

Quiet One

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Everyone keeps avoiding the question Kale has asked like 10 times now: if the Diet votes to join the 'Moot will that solve the issue?

That really depends on the Elders at this point. If Phantaria had tried to join the 'moot before D'hara started taking over the lands of Saffalore, then most likely Phantaria would be the ones running the take overs and D'hara would be assisting them.

As it stands now, them joining the moot could easily be interpreted as Phantaria only joining the 'moot for the sole reason of getting the Duchy of the Lowlands rather than any real interest in taking the former place of the Republic of Terran.

Perth

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Can someone explain to me how Hireshmont and Kale went from enemies to friends so quickly? I'm getting Maroccidental whiplash.

They aren't really, Hireshmont just sent Kale a pretty bristly letter actually. It just happens that their motives are aligning in this case or something. Either Hireshmont thinks Phantarian ownership of Chesney is better for him/Terran/the Church than D'Haran, or he's trying to get back on Kale's good side, or he just likes arguing with Machiavel (most likely case).


That really depends on the Elders at this point. If Phantaria had tried to join the 'moot before D'hara started taking over the lands of Saffalore, then most likely Phantaria would be the ones running the take overs and D'hara would be assisting them.

As it stands now, them joining the moot could easily be interpreted as Phantaria only joining the 'moot for the sole reason of getting the Duchy of the Lowlands rather than any real interest in taking the former place of the Republic of Terran.

I think it would be the opposite: if the Elders denied them it would look like they only did so so that D'Hara could grab Chesney. Their intention to approve Phantaria's membership was well known and obvious before this issue came up.

Phantaria's interest in taking Terran's place has been known since day one. Kale went before the Elders to make the case for Phantaria's republican form of government and Phantaria tried to conquer the Chateau with the public casus belli of seeing themselves as the successor state to Terran and trying to reunite the lands and conquer the old capital.

If Phantaria were denied membership it would be blatantly because D'Hara just wants Chesney.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2013, 08:26:34 AM by Perth »
"A tale is but half told when only one person tells it." - The Saga of Grettir the Strong
- Current: Kemen (D'hara) - Past: Kerwin (Eston), Kale (Phantaria, Terran, Melodia)

Quiet One

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Well, I'm not saying that the Elders would deny Phantaria membership into the 'moot. Personally, I think most want Phantaria in the 'moot.

What I'm saying is that the timing on Phantaria joining the 'moot now, rather than before the Duchy of the Lowlands came into question, could put that request to join under suspicion. Some might not see it as Phantaria wanting to join, but more of a "Well, if we have to..."

(For everyone's confusion, I had to change my display name mid conversation. But people seem to complain that I don't send enough messages so...Quiet One.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2013, 08:37:37 AM by Quiet One »

Feylonis

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The Farronite Republic most graciously accepts the addition of the Duchy of Phantaria to its territories.

There you go, problem solved! xoxo

Perth

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The Farronite Republic most graciously accepts the addition of the Duchy of Phantaria to its territories.

There you go, problem solved! xoxo

 :-\
"A tale is but half told when only one person tells it." - The Saga of Grettir the Strong
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Stabbity

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Here, we'll have someone from Luria straighten this out:

1.) Phantaria's diet needs to vote to abide the moot's charter and agree to the terms of the treaty of the Maroccidens. Phantaria is the sole realm left from the Terran breakup eligible to be a voting member of the Moot. Terran and Saffalore are not republics, and therefore not valid. Phantaria is legitimate as long as the Diet is responsible for overall policy in Phantaria, since having a monarch (like a prince) is not a disqualifying factor, given the precedence of D'hara and their (illegitimate in the eyes of Luria) King.

2.) Phantaria then needs to formally request to the elders of the moot to be considered a full member. Then, if D'hara doesn't piss in Barca's cheerios (like it did with FR) the Elders will vote on whether or not to accept Phantaria as a full (voting) member of the Moot. If it passes Phantaria gets three elders, one is their ruler, and two are voted upon in some fashion, never paid attention to the part.

3.) D'hara was under no obligation to defend Terran from Phantaria since the Treaty of the Maroccidens no longer covers Terran, under Paragraph C, section v as well as Paragraph G, section i. Terran is ineligible to hold elder offices in the Moot at present, and Phantaria is the only splinter realm of Terran capable, thus it defaults that Barca and D'hara recognize Phantaria as a legitimate state, over Terran.

4.) Nothing in the treaty of the Maroccidens gives any realm claim to Chesney, Paisly or Rettleville. The treaty merely designates them as joint security responsibilities. How Barca and D'hara determine what security is, and how to provide it is entirely up to the D'haran House of Lords and Barcan Senate. If they determine that the region is secured due to the impending threat of a corrupt SA !@#$storm, so be it. If they determine that it can never be safe under Hireshmont, so be it. Once the legislature to take action is written up, well that's the law. Not some real life legal precedent which has ABSOLUTELY no relevance to battlemaster because applying real life law in battlemaster makes as much sense as attempting to apply the Treaty of the Maroccidens to real life. What rl court is going to say "As cited under the Treaty of the Maroccidens, this person must be banned from here, D'hara, Barca, etc.... And must pay a fine of $400 and spend 30 days in jail." Likewise if you try and cite the Locarno Treaties in battlemaster, you should be smacked upside the head. Lightning bolted too, you dirty witch.

Thank you all, I hope you enjoyed Lurian Lessons on advanced Marocciden politics 101.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2013, 12:32:22 PM by Stabbity »
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Chenier

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That really depends on the Elders at this point. If Phantaria had tried to join the 'moot before D'hara started taking over the lands of Saffalore, then most likely Phantaria would be the ones running the take overs and D'hara would be assisting them.

As it stands now, them joining the moot could easily be interpreted as Phantaria only joining the 'moot for the sole reason of getting the Duchy of the Lowlands rather than any real interest in taking the former place of the Republic of Terran.

This.

They aren't really, Hireshmont just sent Kale a pretty bristly letter actually. It just happens that their motives are aligning in this case or something. Either Hireshmont thinks Phantarian ownership of Chesney is better for him/Terran/the Church than D'Haran, or he's trying to get back on Kale's good side, or he just likes arguing with Machiavel (most likely case).


I think it would be the opposite: if the Elders denied them it would look like they only did so so that D'Hara could grab Chesney. Their intention to approve Phantaria's membership was well known and obvious before this issue came up.

Phantaria's interest in taking Terran's place has been known since day one. Kale went before the Elders to make the case for Phantaria's republican form of government and Phantaria tried to conquer the Chateau with the public casus belli of seeing themselves as the successor state to Terran and trying to reunite the lands and conquer the old capital.

If Phantaria were denied membership it would be blatantly because D'Hara just wants Chesney.

Yea, the elder's intent was positive before, you know, your Diet proved it really doesn't give a !@#$ about joining and you'd be ready to go to war against the 'moot for your expansionist ambitions. The elders isn't only D'Hara, it's Barca too. And, surprise! They are helping us cleanse Chesney from Saffalore. Why would the elders vote in a nation that is clearly hostile to them now?

Here, we'll have someone from Luria straighten this out:

1.) Phantaria's diet needs to vote to abide the moot's charter and agree to the terms of the treaty of the Maroccidens. Phantaria is the sole realm left from the Terran breakup eligible to be a voting member of the Moot. Terran and Saffalore are not republics, and therefore not valid. Phantaria is legitimate as long as the Diet is responsible for overall policy in Phantaria, since having a monarch (like a prince) is not a disqualifying factor, given the precedence of D'hara and their (illegitimate in the eyes of Luria) King.

2.) Phantaria then needs to formally request to the elders of the moot to be considered a full member. Then, if D'hara doesn't piss in Barca's cheerios (like it did with FR) the Elders will vote on whether or not to accept Phantaria as a full (voting) member of the Moot. If it passes Phantaria gets three elders, one is their ruler, and two are voted upon in some fashion, never paid attention to the part.

3.) D'hara was under no obligation to defend Terran from Phantaria since the Treaty of the Maroccidens no longer covers Terran, under Paragraph C, section v as well as Paragraph G, section i. Terran is ineligible to hold elder offices in the Moot at present, and Phantaria is the only splinter realm of Terran capable, thus it defaults that Barca and D'hara recognize Phantaria as a legitimate state, over Terran.

4.) Nothing in the treaty of the Maroccidens gives any realm claim to Chesney, Paisly or Rettleville. The treaty merely designates them as joint security responsibilities. How Barca and D'hara determine what security is, and how to provide it is entirely up to the D'haran House of Lords and Barcan Senate. If they determine that the region is secured due to the impending threat of a corrupt SA !@#$storm, so be it. If they determine that it can never be safe under Hireshmont, so be it. Once the legislature to take action is written up, well that's the law. Not some real life legal precedent which has ABSOLUTELY no relevance to battlemaster because applying real life law in battlemaster makes as much sense as attempting to apply the Treaty of the Maroccidens to real life. What rl court is going to say "As cited under the Treaty of the Maroccidens, this person must be banned from here, D'hara, Barca, etc.... And must pay a fine of $400 and spend 30 days in jail." Likewise if you try and cite the Locarno Treaties in battlemaster, you should be smacked upside the head. Lightning bolted too, you dirty witch.

Thank you all, I hope you enjoyed Lurian Lessons on advanced Marocciden politics 101.

1) D'Hara doesn't have a reigning monarch, but a sitting monarch. Diplomacy and realm leadership lies with the Prime Minister. Great insistence was made, during the "Dragon Reform" of some of the newer nobles,  that a republican form of governance be kept with an elected ruler. The elders might have been able to fudge things a bit for Phantaria, but it's rather clear that they do not have an elected leader and that their Diet is not a sovereign body.

2) Yea, if any of the elders had any trust left in Phantaria.

3) There is no recognized legitimate successor, just one possible claimant, if the elders want to turn their back to Phantaria's monarchial rule. Phantaria had a legitimate causus belli against Terran, but Chesney shows up in the Treaty of the Marrocidens, and the Old Republic granted partial responsibility over it to the other signing parties of the 'moot. Since the Old Republic is no more, it's up to Barca and D'Hara to safeguard Chesney, now.

4) The Treaty of the Maroccidens involves the mutual cession of limited sovereignty. Signing parties have all made some concessions to each other, for the better of the whole. The Old Republic recognized the duty of Barca and D'Hara to safeguard Chesney, and if any of the new states seek recognition as successors to the Old Republic, then they too have to recognize Barca and D'Hara's duty to protect Chesney. The treaty doesn't actually say that a 'moot realm needs to hold the region. If Phantaria had played nice, maybe we would have given it to them. Because, surprise, D'Hara doesn't really want to keep it! We've got enough on our hands as it is, and we would have been delighted to have someone else take care of Phantaria for us.

The Farronite Republic most graciously accepts the addition of the Duchy of Phantaria to its territories.

There you go, problem solved! xoxo

That's looking like the solution, if Phantaria seeks military action as soon as there's a misunderstanding...
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Geronus

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Hey! Go start a new thread entitled "1001 Ways to Destabilize the Maroccidens"!

Indirik

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Destabilizing it would require it to be stable to begin with.
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Glaumring the Fox

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Hey! Go start a new thread entitled "1001 Ways to Destabilize the Maroccidens"!

We already did that... ;)
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T Strike

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101 ways to kill Glaumring's noble Glaumring
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