Great Dwilight War:Astrum defeats Asylon and Farronite forces.

[Gustav Kuriga]

Except that you never tried to actually change the charter in any way. Niselur said nothing about the charter. Ever. Until one day Leopold suddenly stands up, with no warning, and screams "This crusade sucks! The charter sucks! The church sucks! WAR!!!!!" Let's face it, most of the people in your realm weren't even members of the church until after Leopold's rebellion. Lain wasn't even a member of the church until after the war was already planned, and set in motion.

If Niselur truly desired to renew the church and rework the charter, they would have actually attempted to do so by, you know, actually trying to do so before declaring war.
Which is actually a perfectly legitimate reason for going to war. All this "we want to renew the church and get a better charter" is just hokum.
We knew Leopold would refuse before we even sent the offer to him. Yet the offer had to be made, regardless.

Why does it matter what the reason is? Everything in Battlemaster is just reasons to have, you know, battles. We know what the true reasoning is, but better charter stuff is a casus belli that they can gather their allies under.

[Sypher]

HOnestly, the wars have not even been discussed in any of the realm channels. We are just sitting in our armchairs sipping our brandy, twirling our moustachios and muttering "Great Scott!" everytime something new happens.

*sip*

It probably doesn't hurt D'hara any to let Morek & LN trade blows while it finishes up its conquests out west.

[Wolfsong]

I think LN would pop a blood vessel if D'hara declined to go to war with them right away.

[Vellos]

Oh don't worry, I've helpfully set you up for the new church you are going to form.I will do quotes from now on then

See, this is the issue. Ya'll are destroying one of the neatest and most unique things ever in BM... and you're not going to be able to replace it. I don't think you realize how hard it is to build a religion like SA. I'm increasingly of the opinion it is actually impossible to do in a settled continent, that SA is truly just a fluke of Dwilight being a new continent.

Building a religion to comparable size as SA would require dozens of priests, tens of thousands of gold, and years of effort. And doing it while SA is available to undermine you... not likely to be possible.

[Daimall]

If SA proves to be able to undermine this new religion, then that would seem to show that it still has power and authority within and without and not just a useless favor religion, does it not?

[Arundel]

I don't really understand Luria Nova's position, other than, "Morek likes D'Hara more than us. GRRRAAAA!!!!"

Yeah, and?

[Glaumring the Fox]

See, this is the issue. Ya'll are destroying one of the neatest and most unique things ever in BM... and you're not going to be able to replace it. I don't think you realize how hard it is to build a religion like SA. I'm increasingly of the opinion it is actually impossible to do in a settled continent, that SA is truly just a fluke of Dwilight being a new continent.

Building a religion to comparable size as SA would require dozens of priests, tens of thousands of gold, and years of effort. And doing it while SA is available to undermine you... not likely to be possible.

Ok guys stop the war! SA might be affected by it and it took years and years to build. Turn the armies around! Nothing will ever replace it therefore we should just continue on as normal, the playerbase should respect SA's inherent right to rule on Dwilight forevermore! We dont care if you want to develop your own realm RP or religion! Vellos joined the church months ago he hasnt had a chance to rule Dwilight yet! 

[Frostwood]

See, this is the issue. Ya'll are destroying one of the neatest and most unique things ever in BM... and you're not going to be able to replace it. I don't think you realize how hard it is to build a religion like SA. I'm increasingly of the opinion it is actually impossible to do in a settled continent, that SA is truly just a fluke of Dwilight being a new continent.

Building a religion to comparable size as SA would require dozens of priests, tens of thousands of gold, and years of effort. And doing it while SA is available to undermine you... not likely to be possible.

Well, I will agree that forming a religion is not easy, as Tiridra found out.  You have to lay the groundwork.  The one key piece that SA is missing is engaging all members, inside and outside of the faith. 

Hence the major reason for the crack - boredom.  Warriors without wars to fight, decreasing nobles due to boredom, soon there would not be enough nobles to hold Niselur, and your dream of encasing all of Dwilight in SA would fail.

Which is actually a perfectly legitimate reason for going to war. All this "we want to renew the church and get a better charter" is just hokum.

It wasn't aimed at you.  It was aimed at the nobles in SA on the sidelines, who still want to part of SA, but want more action.  Its simple, I promise action, adventure-you promise more of the same

[Zakilevo]

There were a lot of unique things that have existed in BM and a lot of them are gone now. Nothing lasts forever and SA will just fade away like all other things that came before it. 

[Glaumring the Fox]

SA was formed to 'rule all of Dwilight' eradicate all other faiths and nations that opposed it and now it finds itself in the same position, it maintained large alliances now finds large alliances arrayed against it, it created colonies that it ruled with fear and is being eaten by its children. Live by the sword die by the sword, every kingdom and faith on Dwilight grows and changes and filled with excitement eventually burns out and the ones in power the ones collecting large tax gold they try so hard to hold on and use all sorts of excuses to control what they have, it happens everywhere, the empire of SA has grown to its limits , its temples on every shore, the culture and stories known by all its impact will be felt for years to come, let us not forget that when Rome fell the eastern empire of Byzantine ruled a thousand years in its stead. SA wont die on BM, it will rise and fall and rise and fall ad infinitum because there will always be someone who remembers it. And don't get me wrong... I dont think SA is dead or dying by any means, perhaps a few realms will fall, the nobles will disperse or gather and in that dark place only lit by the bloodstars they will plot their vengeance...

[Penchant]

You really are clueless to like anything with SA, right? The BS that a religion will replace SA in no time and actually matter like SA is the dumbest thing I have heard in awhile. There are several other continents and yet it has not happened elsewhere. No one has said that SA is entitled to rule Dwilight or that BS but we have many saying it will be a shame for it to go away, while other idiots are like yes *party dance* SA is going to be gone. IC you can say whatever you want about SA but OOC I can't see someone come up with any convincing evidence that SA has not been the best thing for Dwilight in its existence.

[Zakilevo]

You really are clueless to like anything with SA, right? The BS that a religion will replace SA in no time and actually matter like SA is the dumbest thing I have heard in awhile. There are several other continents and yet it has not happened elsewhere. No one has said that SA is entitled to rule Dwilight or that BS but we have many saying it will be a shame for it to go away, while other idiots are like yes *party dance* SA is going to be gone. IC you can say whatever you want about SA but OOC I can't see someone come up with any convincing evidence that SA has not been the best thing for Dwilight in its existence.

SA was probably the best thing that happened on Dwilight no doubt. I doubt we will see anything as interesting as SA in any continent for a long time to come.

[Glaumring the Fox]

You really are clueless to like anything with SA, right? The BS that a religion will replace SA in no time and actually matter like SA is the dumbest thing I have heard in awhile. There are several other continents and yet it has not happened elsewhere. No one has said that SA is entitled to rule Dwilight or that BS but we have many saying it will be a shame for it to go away, while other idiots are like yes *party dance* SA is going to be gone. IC you can say whatever you want about SA but OOC I can't see someone come up with any convincing evidence that SA has not been the best thing for Dwilight in its existence.

Whats your point? I dont understand what you want. I want Cult of Bloodmoon to be the next powerhouse religion I cam try and cry and stomp my feet and it might never happen, what makes SA any better than what other nobles want or do? Should we stop the war so Astrum can lord over us? SA is already acting like they are defeated, you have already lost this war, the first actual challenge to the might of SA and you are buckling under because oh poo poo Astrum might lose some lands or Morek might lose a single battle or oh my god the most important realm in Dwilight the long standing theocracy of Terran will crumble under. The original intention of SA was that they should fight yet hold to the faith, what instead happened was a few realms holding everything so tight and opposed to change because of fear that they wont rule Dwilight as they were entitled to oh my! What do I know of SA hmmmm? I ruled a theocracy... I served as Consul not once but two or three times, yeah im just blowing hot air. And oh look I brought SA to Asylon! It still has SA temples and perhaps a few followers, this is years and years. Asylon has had various SA rulers probably 3 or 4 out of the 5 rulers we have ever had.

I have fought to preserve SA , to incorporate it into my kingdoms lore and even the CoB to a minor degree, does that mean I want it destroyed? We are at war with Astrum , not with SA.

You guys are already taking like defeated kingdoms just because for the first time ever there is actually real challenge to your hegemony. Perhaps some reflection as minor kingdoms of Dwilight will do you good to see what it has been like for the rest of us non entities of Dwilight. 

Edit: what I gather from this type of talk is that SA isnt about the religion but the power it weilds, what you mean by saying 'SA is dying etc' is that the power is dying, your power. Is SA Astrum? Is it Morek? Is it Corsanctum? If any of those realms dies is SA dead? Will its nobles just up and quit in fits of entitled rage? Or is SA about the prophet? If Mathurin quit playing as he has did SA die? Or is SA about the religion are you all there worshipping and without all your piousness will it die? Or is SA about nobles? Perhaps that was forgotten amongst all these other things?

[dustole]

If the church loses its authority it loses its significance.   CoB,  Triunism, Elementalism.   Those religions don't matter because they have no authority.  There is no reason to have power struggles within those churches because there is nothing to struggle for. 

[Stabbity]

SA is doing a great job of ruining its authority. Terran, Leopold... There have been many misteps made by the elders and they have done a phenomal job of alienating those arrayed against them now.

Also... Beer + Forum does not mix.