Great Dwilight War:Astrum defeats Asylon and Farronite forces.

[Eduardo Almighty]

This is what happens when you try to loot my lands. 

[Chenier]

There's rarely any good to be had by debating past military decisions.

[trying]

Well you wouldn't discuss future plans either.

[dustole]

I blame Moreks banker the most.  He is quite incompetent

[pcw27]

Yes we were discussing what we'd do once we lose. I expected either a close victory or a close defeat. Instead, we crushed Asylon because their settings were horrible.

We were in Dunnbrook because that is where I got wounded. We ran around Walefishire remember? to drag them out of the place because they had over 20k CS stationed there and we only had 19k CS during the campaign and we ended up only getting 17k CS instead of 23k because people were lagging behind. We moved to Knyazes to drag them out of the fortified region by pretending to strike deeper into their territories. They bit the bait and moved out of the fortified region and we attacked Dunnbrook with what we had. The only mistake I made there was not planning any scenario for a crushing victory which I didn't expect.

So it sounds like the problem here is you didn't make it clear to your Marshals how important you considered Walefshire to be and then you got mad when they decided to attack something else.

Uh no. It doesn't work that way. You don't just order in the middle of the day asking people to pull back. If you want people to actually respond, you order early so everyone can react to your order. I was pissed because you didn't say a word and just decided it was good to order some people to attack Duil. People who were in Eidulb Outskirts heard your order but people in Sabadell didn't. By the time I arrived with the other half of the army, you were already about to hit Duil with only 9k. Who on earth attacks a region with 14k CS with only 9k? I had to order people to turn back because Duil was 2 turns away from EO. Luckily the only one who paid for your mistake was you and the rest of the army managed to turn around. After another turn later, we beat Asylon and beat them again in Walefishire.

It most definitely was not the middle of the day because I almost always log in at the turn change. It was probably an hour in at the most.

Also, what are you trying to say about Astrum's lack of militia in several critical regions? Which critical regions? The only critical region we had to worry about was Eidulb Outskirts. I ordered the lord to increase the militia there to 10k CS but the guy never did that. Our islands were perfectly fine as we had 2k CS guarding all the regions there. Our north was wide open because it was pointless to drop militias in regions without any fortification.

When did we have 2kcs on the Island? Certainly not when the Farronites invaded it. When I took over Libbido had few militia if any.

Militia in rurals aren't useless at all. Militia dig in automatically and defenders always have an advantage due to the simple fact that armies always fail to arrive on time for an attack. I was just playing on Atamara and I saw a rural region with 9,000cs of militia. As has been pointed out we have nigh unlimited gold. We could have deployed max militia to every rural, paid off the region lords and still fielded our army. I found as little as 2,000cs in Sabadell completely stopped Niselur from making headway because we could always respond with a small mobile force and end up with enough to hold them off. How about Yggdrazhuul and  Yggdramir? You don't think a bottleneck like that is worth defending?

There's a reason that in Morek it's a law that every lord needs to deploy ample militia in their regions.

The main reason why we had to attack Walefishire was because the lord of EO refused to increase his militia to 10k CS. We only had 6k back then because we asked Corsanctum to guard the region for the most of our campaigns. Some bug hit Corsanctum hard and they couldn't help us in our last two campaigns. Without their help, we had to increase our reinforcement there but the lord never did. I probably should have just ordered people to drop militia there but I never thought about that back then.

In a situation like that you drop the militia anyway and tell the banker to pimp smack the whiny lord if he disbands them.

When Asylon gathered 17k CS in Walefishire, I had to make a decision. Either reduce them before they grow even larger and attack EO - Asylon's army was an infantry heavy army (with just over 1000 infantrymen. I don't recall their exact infantry CS though) or ignore them and fight Niselur. I chose the former and it would have been fine if I didn't get wounded but that happened unfortunately. By the time Astrum Kybcyell, Niselur began their attack on our northern regions and because we had to travel from Itaufield to our capital instead of Walefishire to our capital, they had enough time to burn two of our regions. They burned even more during our refit because our armies had to walk around Walefishire because we wasted our CS on looting a pointless region.

Walefshire's a pointless region too! At least Itaufield is the gateway to a VERY important region. As it stands the travel time difference is three turns. That time difference wouldn't have shortened Niselur's looting at all. Remember the looting didn't stop when our main army returned Karibash and the peasant militia drove them off while we were in Eidulb. The only thing that would have happened differently is our main army would have driven off Niselur's instead of Karibash and the peasant militia.

This is all assuming that if things had gone to plan you'd have cut razing of Walefshire short in order to respond, which up to that point had been the exact opposite of your strategy. Which by the way wouldn't have given us enough time to rogue the region.

Look don't get me wrong, the big problem here was our banker fell asleep at his desk and let Eidulb Outskirts starve, but your strategy of "we'll let them loot us if they let us loot them" didn't do us any favors either.

[D`Este]

Frankly, his strategy worked and niselur was about to collapse and truly, you can arrange food without a banker.

[Zakilevo]

So it sounds like the problem here is you didn't make it clear to your Marshals how important you considered Walefshire to be and then you got mad when they decided to attack something else.

I agree on that. Though I thought my marshals would have caught on to my general strategy after working under me for so long but clearly they didn't.

When did we have 2kcs on the Island? Certainly not when the Farronites invaded it. When I took over Libbido had few militia if any.

Militia in rurals aren't useless at all. Militia dig in automatically and defenders always have an advantage due to the simple fact that armies always fail to arrive on time for an attack. I was just playing on Atamara and I saw a rural region with 9,000cs of militia. As has been pointed out we have nigh unlimited gold. We could have deployed max militia to every rural, paid off the region lords and still fielded our army. I found as little as 2,000cs in Sabadell completely stopped Niselur from making headway because we could always respond with a small mobile force and end up with enough to hold them off. How about Yggdrazhuul and  Yggdramir? You don't think a bottleneck like that is worth defending?

There's a reason that in Morek it's a law that every lord needs to deploy ample militia in their regions.

I asked lords to drop more militia and even told them we'd fully fund them. Only one or two signed up for that. Our armies were moving constantly during the first two months of the war so we didn't have much time to drop militia everywhere.

As for the island, FR hit us when we didn't have any militia in the island. We cleared them fast and dropped 2k militia there. The lord didn't want to drop more and FR didn't really get to attack the island again after their first attack so it was pointless to invest more in a well defended island.

I don't know why you would let Niselur even march as far as Sabadell but during my time we didn't have to invest too heavily on militia.

About Yggdrazhuul and  Yggdramir... why on earth would I waste time and gold on those two? Do we have enemies coming from that side? No. If I wanted to drop militia, I would have probably dropped them in Zereth and possibly Sabadell like you said and keep a small army either Sabadell or Zereth to stop Niselur.

In a situation like that you drop the militia anyway and tell the banker to pimp smack the whiny lord if he disbands them.

You mean judge?

Walefshire's a pointless region too! At least Itaufield is the gateway to a VERY important region. As it stands the travel time difference is three turns. That time difference wouldn't have shortened Niselur's looting at all.

Now I understand why you failed so miserably. You don't even know how to calculate how much time you need. Let me point it out to you. The difference isn't just three turns. If we attacked Walefishire, we would have been only 4 turns away from reaching our capital(since it takes 2 turns to travel from Duil to EO). But because you made people travel all the way to Itaufield through Kybcyell, it took 11 turns instead. We were in Dunnbrook and from there you made people travel Elets-Kybcyell-Itaufield-Shuberstone-Dunnbrook-Knyazes(2 turns)-Duil(2 tuns)-EO-Eidulb. It isn't a one way trip :p

7 turns is 3.5 days. That is enough time to burn a region or two to the ground with 10k CS.

and let Eidulb Outskirts starve, but your strategy of "we'll let them loot us if they let us loot them" didn't do us any favors either.

I had my character paused at least a month before this :p If Banker didn't do his job, you guys should have removed the banker. When I was there I spoke to him multiple times and he did his job just fine. I do regret not removing Sergio though. That was my plan before the war started. Never had a chance to actually do it.

[Indirik]

I blame Moreks banker the most.

I blame Morek in general.


SA: "Crusade against Niselur!"

MoreK "Woohoo! We call Libero!"

[BarticaBoat]

... Remember the looting didn't stop when our main army returned Karibash and the peasant militia drove them off while we were in Eidulb. The only thing that would have happened differently is our main army would have driven off Niselur's instead of Karibash and the peasant militia...

Let history remember, 350 Astrumites nearly defeated the 900 man Niselurian army, with the help of Toren peasant militias. Toren people should rise up and destroy the north 

Also, they didn't leave because our tattered army decided to refit despite Karibash's calls to rise up and defend the north.

[Atanamir]

Frankly, his strategy worked and niselur was about to collapse and truly, you can arrange food without a banker.

And then came Aldarion.

[T Strike]

And then came Aldarion.

It would have happened no matter what, if Kihalin hadn't had left.

My point is: long live Kihalin.

[Indirik]

That really was the turning point in the war for Astrum.

[Daimall]

The big turning point I felt for Niselur happened when Leopold finally stepped down and paused and got Fulco to the throne. Everything seemed to have changed for the better (for Niselur at least) after that.

[Glaumring the Fox]

Yeah that was a huge turning point for Asylon also. If Niselur had not of recovered we would be in a different situation than we are now.

[pcw27]

I agree on that. Though I thought my marshals would have caught on to my general strategy after working under me for so long but clearly they didn't.

Apparently we caught onto some parts of your general strategy but not the parts you wanted.

I asked lords to drop more militia and even told them we'd fully fund them. Only one or two signed up for that. Our armies were moving constantly during the first two months of the war so we didn't have much time to drop militia everywhere.

Well there's your problem. Don't ask. When we needed militia in Sabadell I ordered the lord to deploy 2,000cs of militia. Same with Ammando and now Libbido.

As for the island, FR hit us when we didn't have any militia in the island. We cleared them fast and dropped 2k militia there. The lord didn't want to drop more and FR didn't really get to attack the island again after their first attack so it was pointless to invest more in a well defended island.

Evidently not that well defended because Asylon hit us there shortly after.

I don't know why you would let Niselur even march as far as Sabadell but during my time we didn't have to invest too heavily on militia.

I didn't let them, they outmaneuvered us thanks to an exploit as I've already mentioned. It was obvious they'd eventually target Sabadell once the rest of the north was wrecked. It would definitely have helped to plan ahead for that. Better yet would have been to put militia in Zereth even earlier.

Niselur deployed 5,000cs of militia in Gaston Farms after their joint attack with Asylon. Those extra troops have made invasions impossible.

About Yggdrazhuul and  Yggdramir... why on earth would I waste time and gold on those two? Do we have enemies coming from that side? No. If I wanted to drop militia, I would have probably dropped them in Zereth and possibly Sabadell like you said and keep a small army either Sabadell or Zereth to stop Niselur.

Niselur's sent troops that way multiple times including on your watch. That's three rural regions they can plow right through.

Why are you even talking about wasting gold? We had unlimited gold at the time. Rural regions on the other hand were not unlimited and they got wasted left and right.

You mean judge?

Yes

Now I understand why you failed so miserably. You don't even know how to calculate how much time you need.

If you're going to be an ass about this then we're done talking, permanently.

Let me point it out to you. The difference isn't just three turns. If we attacked Walefishire, we would have been only 4 turns away from reaching our capital(since it takes 2 turns to travel from Duil to EO). But because you made people travel all the way to Itaufield through Kybcyell, it took 11 turns instead. We were in Dunnbrook and from there you made people travel Elets-Kybcyell-Itaufield-Shuberstone-Dunnbrook-Knyazes(2 turns)-Duil(2 tuns)-EO-Eidulb. It isn't a one way trip :p

7 turns is 3.5 days. That is enough time to burn a region or two to the ground with 10k CS.

At what point are you claiming Niselur's forces first appeared? As near as I can tell you're claiming they attacked while we were in Elets and when ideally we would have been in Walefshire. I'm reasonably certain they showed up while we were in Itaufield which is why we only looted for a day. If that's the case the travel time isn't Elets-Kybcyell-Itaufield-Shuberstone-Dunnbrook-Knyazes. It's just Itaufield-shuberston-Dunbrook-Knyazes. Those are the travel times I was quoting before, how long to return from Itaufield when we see learn the enemy force has arrived.

Even if we do assume your time of departure is correct, the 3.5 days of extra looting is still wrong because it assumes the returning army is what drove off Niselur. As I've already said the relief forces weren't what drove off Niselur. They were driven out by peasant militias and Karibash. They pulled back roughly when my army arrived in Eidulb for a refit. By your counter that's about 11 turns of total looting. So lets assume we return to Eidulb in 4 turns like you've said. Lets say we manage to refit everyone and head back to EO in a single turn. It takes four turns to get from the EO to Gelene Outskirts. That's a total of 9 turns before we arrive to intervene. That cuts back their pillaging time by a single day and that's with a generous time frame for refitting.

In any case I'm not entirely convinced you wouldn't have just had us spend that extra time finishing off Walefshire. We certainly couldn't have driven it rogue in a single day. Your track record up to that point had been to destroy our target at the expense of whatever regions might be getting looted at the time.

I had my character paused at least a month before this :p If Banker didn't do his job, you guys should have removed the banker. When I was there I spoke to him multiple times and he did his job just fine.

I don't know what to tell you except that by the time I was in charge he was reduced to just lamenting how soon we'll be out of food. At any rate, that proves my point about the banker being most at fault. It's not the general's job to babysit the banker.

I did my job. I won a bunch of battles. I stopped a huge surprise attack. I sent raiding parties when I could. That whole time a third of my forces were constantly having to retake regions that had been starved rogue.

I do regret not removing Sergio though. That was my plan before the war started. Never had a chance to actually do it.

He does seem to be quiet most of the time. I was the one who ended up convincing Morek to help and I got Corsanctum back into it after they'd been away for so long. I have no idea if he ever spoke to either of them.